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Race buffs
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I still believe orc needs some minor buffs, as of right now its only viable to stamsorcs because stam regen doesnt matter for them.
maybe give this class a little bonus resource return on heavy attacks.
Tho if it was me I would remove the racial passives entirely, and let people pick their bonus passives instead. I'm forced into redguard and I hate it honestly.
@Ragnarock41 I laugh at people who think orc is weak. You're saying orc should get buffed with more resource return on heavy attacks? Orc has bonuses to damage and healing, very good ones aswell. You want to give it more sustain too? Thats insane. "I'm forced into redguard" You're not forced into anything, its a simple l2p issue. People always seem to think their own class or race is the weakest and you yourself prove it, "Worst Class EU". Maybe change it to "Worst Player EU"?
why are you so triggered? Why are you so mad? orc and redguard basically have very close tooltips, and redguard has sustain on top of good damage. yes, orc has better options when it comes to building for tanking, but only scrubs build to tank in cyrodiil.
Its not a lie orc is garbage outside of stamsorc.
you won't see anyone but stamsorcs use it.
But thats not the point here, why are you such a little triggered **** ?
Are you getting rekt by stams'orcs 7/24? you mad?
Or is it that you're jelaous your stinky redguard doesn't look as cool as an orc?
I dont play a redguard, if you know how to read you can see im playing an imperial stamplar. I also play an orc stamdk (;. One funny thing is i see more stamplars and stamdks use orc than i see stamsorcs use orc. You call me triggered but youre the one who call me a "little ****" and ask me if i get rekt by stamsorcs xD Also called me a stinky redguard but you're the one who plays a redguard? Not me. Also in my opinion redguard is better for tanking because of the op stamreturn and the more max stam.
Orc doesnt need buffs just because you dont know how to play it. So stick to steering wheel redguard
Also pls @me when responding to me, especially when you respond in a salty manner because i love to read it
Well, first thing is, you trashtalked me first, because you coudln't handle my opinion, which is an opinion based on testings I did with both races. I do play an orc stamDK, the only and only thing orc is better at , is using troll king to get an edge on healing.
For everything else, both races perform very similarly, but redguard crushes orc on sustain. crushes it big time.
If you're underestimating how strong adrenaline rush is, and how much flexible it is to make a build on a redguard, you probably never played a stamDK when black rose-redguard stamDKs were all the cryings on the forum.
and even after the nerfs, adrenaline rush is still better sustain than constution, even with black rose, Its how good this passive is.
But sure, orc staying as a niche option is totally fine by me. I don't enjoy seeing redguard on literally every single BiS build, but hey, at least I'm not bitching at people like you do
Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 2, 2018 12:28PM0 -
ANGEL_BtVS✭✭✭✭sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
Nords are fine?! Not according to this poll I put up in January asking which race should get a buff. Nearly 400 votes and Nords won in a landslide with 45% of the vote.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4805408#Comment_48054080 -
SoulKing32✭✭Nords are by far the worst race in the game, they definitely need a buff.Playing since launch. EU - PC - EP1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »Just let us choose passives.
Not lore friendly
Why?
Of course there is "nature vs nurture" thing but if a nord or khajiit will practice magic for 20 years surely they will be better at it than a regular altmer soldier.
Maybe they could keep "flavour" passives (such as swim speed), but allowing players to choose stat bonuses will allow much more diversity.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »LadyNalcarya wrote: »Just let us choose passives.
Not lore friendly
Why?
Of course there is "nature vs nurture" thing but if a nord or khajiit will practice magic for 20 years surely they will be better at it than a regular altmer soldier.
Maybe they could keep "flavour" passives (such as swim speed), but allowing players to choose stat bonuses will allow much more diversity.
Well no. Altmer have magick in their bloodI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations2 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
Edited by lucky_Sage on March 3, 2018 5:54AMDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 - Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
-
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
@Iucky_sage
Because of how regen works. That extra cast you get when you're low. Especially on a healer who doesn't have the luxury of heavy attacking for resources when they are low. That is why Bretons are BiS healers. Its not about how much magic they can recover. Which according to your own math is absolutly competitive. Its about how long they can go without needing to stop to recover. Here is the full picture for you.
Healing Springs
Argonian cost 2580, Return 338*3 = 1566 cost. 30k mag at 1566 cost = 19.1 casts
Breton cost 2491, Return 338*3 = 1477 cost . 30k mag at 1427 cost = 20.3 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats one extra Springs for the Argonian every 104.4 seconds (assuming GCD frequency)
Harness
Argonian cost 3422, Return 1009*3 = 395 cost. 30k mag at 395 cost = 75.9 casts
Breton cost 3291 , Return 1072*3 = 75 cost. 30k mag at 75 cost = 400 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats on extra Harness for the Argonian every 26. 3 seconds.
(assuming GCD frequency)
So... tell me again how Argonians have better sustain than Breton. By the way Springs cost is well under the average, meaning cost reduction is least effective on it and it still crushes Argonian ResourcefulMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 - Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
-
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Still thinking that bretons need a slight buff to their last passiveI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
Nihilanth✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I still believe orc needs some minor buffs, as of right now its only viable to stamsorcs because stam regen doesnt matter for them.
maybe give this class a little bonus resource return on heavy attacks.
Tho if it was me I would remove the racial passives entirely, and let people pick their bonus passives instead. I'm forced into redguard and I hate it honestly.
@Ragnarock41 I laugh at people who think orc is weak. You're saying orc should get buffed with more resource return on heavy attacks? Orc has bonuses to damage and healing, very good ones aswell. You want to give it more sustain too? Thats insane. "I'm forced into redguard" You're not forced into anything, its a simple l2p issue. People always seem to think their own class or race is the weakest and you yourself prove it, "Worst Class EU". Maybe change it to "Worst Player EU"?
why are you so triggered? Why are you so mad? orc and redguard basically have very close tooltips, and redguard has sustain on top of good damage. yes, orc has better options when it comes to building for tanking, but only scrubs build to tank in cyrodiil.
Its not a lie orc is garbage outside of stamsorc.
you won't see anyone but stamsorcs use it.
But thats not the point here, why are you such a little triggered **** ?
Are you getting rekt by stams'orcs 7/24? you mad?
Or is it that you're jelaous your stinky redguard doesn't look as cool as an orc?
I dont play a redguard, if you know how to read you can see im playing an imperial stamplar. I also play an orc stamdk (;. One funny thing is i see more stamplars and stamdks use orc than i see stamsorcs use orc. You call me triggered but youre the one who call me a "little ****" and ask me if i get rekt by stamsorcs xD Also called me a stinky redguard but you're the one who plays a redguard? Not me. Also in my opinion redguard is better for tanking because of the op stamreturn and the more max stam.
Orc doesnt need buffs just because you dont know how to play it. So stick to steering wheel redguard
Also pls @me when responding to me, especially when you respond in a salty manner because i love to read it
Redgaurd is not good for a tank
Exhilaration-useless you're not regening while blocking
Conditioning -actually usefull. Also the same exact buff as lmperial
Adrenaline Rush - Not going to be melee attacking much to take advantage of this
Argonian-
every passive but swim speed is useful
Imperial -
Red Diamond is as usefulI as Adrenaline Rush.
Tough is actually useful unlike Exhilaration
Orc -
Brawny, Impieral Tough and Conditioning in one, but not as strong
Unflinching, definitely useful as a tank
Swift Warrior, marginally useful. Just like Adrenaline Rush and Red Diamond.
@Nihilanth since you requested it.
Lol adrenaline rush is like the most useful passive for a tank0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Redguard are and have been one of the most meta races for stamina. Now they have just a little bit of competitionI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I still believe orc needs some minor buffs, as of right now its only viable to stamsorcs because stam regen doesnt matter for them.
maybe give this class a little bonus resource return on heavy attacks.
Tho if it was me I would remove the racial passives entirely, and let people pick their bonus passives instead. I'm forced into redguard and I hate it honestly.
@Ragnarock41 I laugh at people who think orc is weak. You're saying orc should get buffed with more resource return on heavy attacks? Orc has bonuses to damage and healing, very good ones aswell. You want to give it more sustain too? Thats insane. "I'm forced into redguard" You're not forced into anything, its a simple l2p issue. People always seem to think their own class or race is the weakest and you yourself prove it, "Worst Class EU". Maybe change it to "Worst Player EU"?
why are you so triggered? Why are you so mad? orc and redguard basically have very close tooltips, and redguard has sustain on top of good damage. yes, orc has better options when it comes to building for tanking, but only scrubs build to tank in cyrodiil.
Its not a lie orc is garbage outside of stamsorc.
you won't see anyone but stamsorcs use it.
But thats not the point here, why are you such a little triggered **** ?
Are you getting rekt by stams'orcs 7/24? you mad?
Or is it that you're jelaous your stinky redguard doesn't look as cool as an orc?
I dont play a redguard, if you know how to read you can see im playing an imperial stamplar. I also play an orc stamdk (;. One funny thing is i see more stamplars and stamdks use orc than i see stamsorcs use orc. You call me triggered but youre the one who call me a "little ****" and ask me if i get rekt by stamsorcs xD Also called me a stinky redguard but you're the one who plays a redguard? Not me. Also in my opinion redguard is better for tanking because of the op stamreturn and the more max stam.
Orc doesnt need buffs just because you dont know how to play it. So stick to steering wheel redguard
Also pls @me when responding to me, especially when you respond in a salty manner because i love to read it
Redgaurd is not good for a tank
Exhilaration-useless you're not regening while blocking
Conditioning -actually usefull. Also the same exact buff as lmperial
Adrenaline Rush - Not going to be melee attacking much to take advantage of this
Argonian-
every passive but swim speed is useful
Imperial -
Red Diamond is as usefulI as Adrenaline Rush.
Tough is actually useful unlike Exhilaration
Orc -
Brawny, Impieral Tough and Conditioning in one, but not as strong
Unflinching, definitely useful as a tank
Swift Warrior, marginally useful. Just like Adrenaline Rush and Red Diamond.
@Nihilanth since you requested it.
Lol adrenaline rush is like the most useful passive for a tank
Altmer with thier mag regan make better tanks than Redgaurd. Nord with thier Rugged, again all 3 passives are useful, not 1 and a half. Breton, again all 3 passives are good for a tank. Now if Redgaurd is what you're dead set on playing, go for it. Woeler's tank is a Khajiti, mine is Altmer, and I started on a Bosmer Templar. Playing BiS well isn't impressive, playing unquie at BiS level THAT'S impressive.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
@Iucky_sage
Because of how regen works. That extra cast you get when you're low. Especially on a healer who doesn't have the luxury of heavy attacking for resources when they are low. That is why Bretons are BiS healers. Its not about how much magic they can recover. Which according to your own math is absolutly competitive. Its about how long they can go without needing to stop to recover. Here is the full picture for you.
Healing Springs
Argonian cost 2580, Return 338*3 = 1566 cost. 30k mag at 1566 cost = 19.1 casts
Breton cost 2491, Return 338*3 = 1477 cost . 30k mag at 1427 cost = 20.3 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats one extra Springs for the Argonian every 104.4 seconds (assuming GCD frequency)
Harness
Argonian cost 3422, Return 1009*3 = 395 cost. 30k mag at 395 cost = 75.9 casts
Breton cost 3291 , Return 1072*3 = 75 cost. 30k mag at 75 cost = 400 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats on extra Harness for the Argonian every 26. 3 seconds.
(assuming GCD frequency)
So... tell me again how Argonians have better sustain than Breton. By the way Springs cost is well under the average, meaning cost reduction is least effective on it and it still crushes Argonian Resourceful
You missed my point that it's a such a small amount even though Argonians get all 3 resources back not just one there should be a bigger difference since they have 1 resource sustain not all 3 and if your not casting an ability every second it's even less mine regen was if a ability we cast every second with bretonsEdited by lucky_Sage on March 3, 2018 11:31PMDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 - Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
-
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
@Iucky_sage
Because of how regen works. That extra cast you get when you're low. Especially on a healer who doesn't have the luxury of heavy attacking for resources when they are low. That is why Bretons are BiS healers. Its not about how much magic they can recover. Which according to your own math is absolutly competitive. Its about how long they can go without needing to stop to recover. Here is the full picture for you.
Healing Springs
Argonian cost 2580, Return 338*3 = 1566 cost. 30k mag at 1566 cost = 19.1 casts
Breton cost 2491, Return 338*3 = 1477 cost . 30k mag at 1427 cost = 20.3 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats one extra Springs for the Argonian every 104.4 seconds (assuming GCD frequency)
Harness
Argonian cost 3422, Return 1009*3 = 395 cost. 30k mag at 395 cost = 75.9 casts
Breton cost 3291 , Return 1072*3 = 75 cost. 30k mag at 75 cost = 400 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats on extra Harness for the Argonian every 26. 3 seconds.
(assuming GCD frequency)
So... tell me again how Argonians have better sustain than Breton. By the way Springs cost is well under the average, meaning cost reduction is least effective on it and it still crushes Argonian Resourceful
You missed my point that it's a such a small amount even though Argonians get all 3 resources back not just one there should be a bigger difference since they have 1 resource sustain not all 3 and if your not casting an ability every second it's even less mine regen was if a ability we cast every second with bretons
I also had zero other factors than race passiveDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 - Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
-
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
@Iucky_sage
Because of how regen works. That extra cast you get when you're low. Especially on a healer who doesn't have the luxury of heavy attacking for resources when they are low. That is why Bretons are BiS healers. Its not about how much magic they can recover. Which according to your own math is absolutly competitive. Its about how long they can go without needing to stop to recover. Here is the full picture for you.
Healing Springs
Argonian cost 2580, Return 338*3 = 1566 cost. 30k mag at 1566 cost = 19.1 casts
Breton cost 2491, Return 338*3 = 1477 cost . 30k mag at 1427 cost = 20.3 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats one extra Springs for the Argonian every 104.4 seconds (assuming GCD frequency)
Harness
Argonian cost 3422, Return 1009*3 = 395 cost. 30k mag at 395 cost = 75.9 casts
Breton cost 3291 , Return 1072*3 = 75 cost. 30k mag at 75 cost = 400 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats on extra Harness for the Argonian every 26. 3 seconds.
(assuming GCD frequency)
So... tell me again how Argonians have better sustain than Breton. By the way Springs cost is well under the average, meaning cost reduction is least effective on it and it still crushes Argonian Resourceful
You missed my point that it's a such a small amount even though Argonians get all 3 resources back not just one there should be a bigger difference since they have 1 resource sustain not all 3 and if your not casting an ability every second it's even less mine regen was if a ability we cast every second with bretons
I would say You missed my point. When looking at it the way you did, it looks small. However 400 Harness us 76 is NOT small at all! Thats 5× as much resource. GCD is 1 second, so thots as resource intensive as you get and its the same thing I used. Outside at PvP your base stamina regen is fine. Health is nice, but useless on a 45 sec wait, and for most who are vampires, the health regen is laughable. 400 Harness in a row with zero regen vs 76 is defenitly better survival than 4k health every 45 seconds.lucky_Sage wrote: »I also had zero other factors than race passive
I also had zero other factors. I literally just made a defult Templar Healer build here
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=38562
and change the race to pull those numbers. The Bretongets muore return from Harness because 10% max magic vs 3% which also means the Breton does better damage and not even the Argoniann Mending makes for better heals 2328 Healing Springs ticks on the Argoniann vs 2308 on the Breton (unless you count the double stack of healing yourself.) That is why Breton are BiS healers.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 - Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
-
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Buff Dunmer Fire resist to the same as Breton. I also agree with your Breton changeFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Does no one read the thread, it has been explained over and over that Breton cost reduction is right is line with the rest. No buff needed. If you buff the cost reduction, you would need to buff the regen of the high elf and the Argonian passive.
And the fire resist is really strong already makes them immune to burning proc from fire damage. That is huge.
@Maura_Neysa that link you post was to a warden healer.
To make the cost reduction passive the worst you can, put worm (4%) on with 7 light (14%) on a temp (4%). Springs by default is 3510 and by my calculations, with in the set up about, ought to cost 2738. With the 3% added from breton, it ought to be 2633. I don't know where you got the springs cost of 2580 for argonian and 2491 for bretons. Unless you are using cost reduction glyphs. In which case, 3 cost reduction glyphs would make the math look like this, (3510-609)*.78= 2263 for argonian and (3510-609)*.75= 2176 for Breton and I just remembered that sorcs get 5% cost reduction, on a Breton sorc, springs would be (3510-609)*.74=2147.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on March 4, 2018 5:35AM0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
Does no one read the thread, it has been explained over and over that Breton cost reduction is right is line with the rest. No buff needed. If you buff the cost reduction, you would need to buff the regen of the high elf and the Argonian passive.
And the fire resist is really strong already makes them immune to burning proc from fire damage. That is huge.
@Maura_Neysa that link you post was to a warden healer.
To make the cost reduction passive the worst you can, put worm (4%) on with 7 light (14%) on a temp (4%). Springs by default is 3510 and by my calculations, with in the set up about, ought to cost 2738. With the 3% added from breton, it ought to be 2633. I don't know where you got the springs cost of 2580 for argonian and 2491 for bretons. Unless you are using cost reduction glyphs. In which case, 3 cost reduction glyphs would make the math look like this, (3510-609)*.78= 2263 for argonian and (3510-609)*.75= 2176 for Breton and I just remembered that sorcs get 5% cost reduction, on a Breton sorc, springs would be (3510-609)*.74=2147.
Yes, I linked my Warden mag DPS build to get to the page. I do not have a Templar healer (mine is DK) so I made a defult temporary Templar healer wearing SPC and Worm with all points in magic, 3 health glyphs to get to 17k the rest magic which gave the Argionian 36k mag and the Breton 39k mag. Vampire, Ritual mundus, Witch Mothers Potent. The jewelry glyphs were stock (regen most likely) Master Resto powered, Maelstrom Lighting Destro Powered. 75 in Blessed and 75 in Elf Born. The extra cost reduction is Templar Restoring Spirit Passive. Again this hurts Breton and helps Argonian and Breton still wins.
The point was to have everything the same except Race. Use your numbers if you like but as long as all you change is race, you'll get the same results. I used Healer build because thats where Bretons are BiS and where sustain is the most important. My point is you can't go buffing a Race that is BiS in a role. Not that Bretons are OP, they aren't. In fact Mag races are actually balanced extremly well. Altmer wins in damage (in general) Breton wins sustain, Argonian wins at well rounded, Dunmer are also well rounded.
@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO you should know by now that I actually do the research and crunch numbers. Granted its at consol limitations and from a Tank/ Healer concentration, but if I have access to the tools, I'll do the work.Edited by Maura_Neysa on March 4, 2018 6:09AMMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Maura_Neysa we are in agreement that they races are in balance, mostly, for resourse management. As I have said many times, the reason people choose high elf over Breton is the dps passives, not the resourse passives.
I am fine with different races being slightly better in Damage then others, and that is what we have. If people actually tested the difference, they would find a difference of 3-7% because of the race they are. The vast majority of good dps are good because they know their rotation and have good sets on. Not because of the single digit differences we are talking about in this thread.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »@Maura_Neysa we are in agreement that they races are in balance, mostly, for resourse management. As I have said many times, the reason people choose high elf over Breton is the dps passives, not the resourse passives.
I am fine with different races being slightly better in Damage then others, and that is what we have. If people actually tested the difference, they would find a difference of 3-7% because of the race they are. The vast majority of good dps are good because they know their rotation and have good sets on. Not because of the single digit differences we are talking about in this thread.
Very true, but people like that play what ever race they want anyway, because they know how to overcome what ever weakness they have due to thier race.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Lestorn✭✭✭sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
Let me correct you here. Due to the Arognian passives, they are good at everything. They gain a bonus to both healing recieved and done, which means they sustain their health longer if they are in the front lines, or keeping the party up better, if healing. The potion passive restoring Health, Magicka and Stamina is just godly, when you use a Tri stat potion meaning they regain far more from a potion than any other race, allowing them to sustain combat for longer periods of time, regardless of role. And if a Night Blade, then they eve get ultimate off drinking potions on top of that. So I fail to see how they are specifically a healer class.
As to the Original Poster. You're a joke. I'm sorry but you are. If you're allowing racial passives to determine what race/class combo you're playing, then you've missed the absolute point of this game, and how it works.1 -
Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
Let me correct you here. Due to the Arognian passives, they are good at everything. They gain a bonus to both healing recieved and done, which means they sustain their health longer if they are in the front lines, or keeping the party up better, if healing. The potion passive restoring Health, Magicka and Stamina is just godly, when you use a Tri stat potion meaning they regain far more from a potion than any other race, allowing them to sustain combat for longer periods of time, regardless of role. And if a Night Blade, then they eve get ultimate off drinking potions on top of that. So I fail to see how they are specifically a healer class.
As to the Original Poster. You're a joke. I'm sorry but you are. If you're allowing racial passives to determine what race/class combo you're playing, then you've missed the absolute point of this game, and how it works.
Play an altmer stamblade. Have fun sustaining and having awful DPS.
Races really do decide BIS for roles and a lot more.Edited by Blackbird_V on March 4, 2018 1:19PMDifficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.1 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Dunmer has some astonishing passives. Like damage, max stamina and max magicka. It's good where it staysI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Valkyn_Eltrys wrote: »sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
Let me correct you here. Due to the Arognian passives, they are good at everything. They gain a bonus to both healing recieved and done, which means they sustain their health longer if they are in the front lines, or keeping the party up better, if healing. The potion passive restoring Health, Magicka and Stamina is just godly, when you use a Tri stat potion meaning they regain far more from a potion than any other race, allowing them to sustain combat for longer periods of time, regardless of role. And if a Night Blade, then they eve get ultimate off drinking potions on top of that. So I fail to see how they are specifically a healer class.
As to the Original Poster. You're a joke. I'm sorry but you are. If you're allowing racial passives to determine what race/class combo you're playing, then you've missed the absolute point of this game, and how it works.
Play an altmer stamblade. Have fun sustaining and having awful DPS.
Races really do decide BIS for roles and a lot more.
of course there is a BiS for roles. what i am saying is that you are vastly overestimate the amount of the difference that race plays. it is way more about your rotation and the armor you have on then race, if you don't know how to do a proper rotation on the class you play, you will get crap dps. but an extra 4% elemental damage is not going to make a world (read 25% more dps) of difference. there was just a thread here were someone put all there atturbute points into health, here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4884402/#Comment_4884402, and he was still able to hit 35k. that is enough to do any content in the game. i emphasize rotation because that is really the largest deciding factor in dps. getting your rotation is the mile long trek most people cant get past, after that, race is like an inch or 2 more.
as for tank and healer roles, they matter even less, one of the most well know tanks plays a khajiit.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on March 4, 2018 3:01PM0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Repeating for my preferred race:
Khajiit
Nimble:
Change the 20% health recovery to 6% max health
Carnage:
Change the 8% Weapon Critical to 8% Weapon and Spell Critical
Stealthy:
Really think this passive should be removed from the game entirely (for both khajiit and bosmer). It makes balancing both races' passives a nightmare because it is too good in pvp and absolutely useless in pve.
There are numerous ways to replace stealthy (all the benefits already exist with medium armor/thieves guild/dark brotherhood anyways), so here would be my suggestion:
for Khajiit
Replace Stealthy with Two-Moons Dance, which restores 1%/2%/3% of your max stamina when you cast a magicka ability, and 1/2/3% of your max magicka when you cast a stamina ability.
This passive reflects the duality of khajiit nature and culture, and would serve to aid all builds, whether dps, healing, or tanking, magicka or stamina, as nearly every build in the game uses at least one ability of the opposite resource pool. This would also help out certain classes for tanking as a khajiit over other options (like nightblades) by giving a way to restore stamina while blocking, or vice versa if frost staff tanking. Your average tank has around 20-25k stamina, so each magicka cast would restore about 600-750 stamina; not as powerful as the passive for dragonknights (though a khajiit dragonknight could stack them I suppose), but enough to help maintain blocking.
for Wood Elves
Replace Stealthy with Command Beast, which increases the damage of your pets by 4%/8%/12%.
This would apply to sorceror pets (familiar, twilight, and atronach), Warden pets (bear only), Nightblade pets (shades), as well as proc set pets (things like maw of the infernal, mad tinker, plague slinger, etc.)
Command beast was always a wood elf ability in previous Elder scrolls games, and would give this class some magicka options without directly increasing magicka or spell damage.Edited by Lynx7386 on March 4, 2018 3:36PMPS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank1 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Repeating for my preferred race:
Khajiit
Nimble:
Change the 20% health recovery to 6% max health
Carnage:
Change the 8% Weapon Critical to 8% Weapon and Spell Critical
Stealthy:
Really think this passive should be removed from the game entirely (for both khajiit and bosmer). It makes balancing both races' passives a nightmare because it is too good in pvp and absolutely useless in pve.
There are numerous ways to replace stealthy (all the benefits already exist with medium armor/thieves guild/dark brotherhood anyways), so here would be my suggestion:
for Khajiit
Replace Stealthy with Two-Moons Dance, which restores 1%/2%/3% of your max stamina when you cast a magicka ability, and 1/2/3% of your max magicka when you cast a stamina ability.
This passive reflects the duality of khajiit nature and culture, and would serve to aid all builds, whether dps, healing, or tanking, magicka or stamina, as nearly every build in the game uses at least one ability of the opposite resource pool. This would also help out certain classes for tanking as a khajiit over other options (like nightblades) by giving a way to restore stamina while blocking, or vice versa if frost staff tanking. Your average tank has around 20-25k stamina, so each magicka cast would restore about 600-750 stamina; not as powerful as the passive for dragonknights (though a khajiit dragonknight could stack them I suppose), but enough to help maintain blocking.
for Wood Elves
Replace Stealthy with Command Beast, which increases the damage of your pets by 4%/8%/12%.
This would apply to sorceror pets (familiar, twilight, and atronach), Warden pets (bear only), Nightblade pets (shades), as well as proc set pets (things like maw of the infernal, mad tinker, plague slinger, etc.)
Command beast was always a wood elf ability in previous Elder scrolls games, and would give this class some magicka options without directly increasing magicka or spell damage.
Again. Those passives are op
way more then stealthy.
I meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
Nihilanth✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I still believe orc needs some minor buffs, as of right now its only viable to stamsorcs because stam regen doesnt matter for them.
maybe give this class a little bonus resource return on heavy attacks.
Tho if it was me I would remove the racial passives entirely, and let people pick their bonus passives instead. I'm forced into redguard and I hate it honestly.
@Ragnarock41 I laugh at people who think orc is weak. You're saying orc should get buffed with more resource return on heavy attacks? Orc has bonuses to damage and healing, very good ones aswell. You want to give it more sustain too? Thats insane. "I'm forced into redguard" You're not forced into anything, its a simple l2p issue. People always seem to think their own class or race is the weakest and you yourself prove it, "Worst Class EU". Maybe change it to "Worst Player EU"?
why are you so triggered? Why are you so mad? orc and redguard basically have very close tooltips, and redguard has sustain on top of good damage. yes, orc has better options when it comes to building for tanking, but only scrubs build to tank in cyrodiil.
Its not a lie orc is garbage outside of stamsorc.
you won't see anyone but stamsorcs use it.
But thats not the point here, why are you such a little triggered **** ?
Are you getting rekt by stams'orcs 7/24? you mad?
Or is it that you're jelaous your stinky redguard doesn't look as cool as an orc?
I dont play a redguard, if you know how to read you can see im playing an imperial stamplar. I also play an orc stamdk (;. One funny thing is i see more stamplars and stamdks use orc than i see stamsorcs use orc. You call me triggered but youre the one who call me a "little ****" and ask me if i get rekt by stamsorcs xD Also called me a stinky redguard but you're the one who plays a redguard? Not me. Also in my opinion redguard is better for tanking because of the op stamreturn and the more max stam.
Orc doesnt need buffs just because you dont know how to play it. So stick to steering wheel redguard
Also pls @me when responding to me, especially when you respond in a salty manner because i love to read it
Redgaurd is not good for a tank
Exhilaration-useless you're not regening while blocking
Conditioning -actually usefull. Also the same exact buff as lmperial
Adrenaline Rush - Not going to be melee attacking much to take advantage of this
Argonian-
every passive but swim speed is useful
Imperial -
Red Diamond is as usefulI as Adrenaline Rush.
Tough is actually useful unlike Exhilaration
Orc -
Brawny, Impieral Tough and Conditioning in one, but not as strong
Unflinching, definitely useful as a tank
Swift Warrior, marginally useful. Just like Adrenaline Rush and Red Diamond.
@Nihilanth since you requested it.
Lol adrenaline rush is like the most useful passive for a tank
Altmer with thier mag regan make better tanks than Redgaurd. Nord with thier Rugged, again all 3 passives are useful, not 1 and a half. Breton, again all 3 passives are good for a tank. Now if Redgaurd is what you're dead set on playing, go for it. Woeler's tank is a Khajiti, mine is Altmer, and I started on a Bosmer Templar. Playing BiS well isn't impressive, playing unquie at BiS level THAT'S impressive.
@Maura_Neysa If you have a single clue what we were talking about it was Redguard vs Orc. If you dont think adrenaline rush is the most op sustain passive except for the argonians resourceful passive then i dont even know. You say you dont melee attack enough for it to be useful? xDD Thats actually one of the dumbest things i have ever read on this forum. But then ofcourse you play a warden ice tank and a DK healer so i guess i shouldnt expect much more from you0 -
Nihilanth✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »I still believe orc needs some minor buffs, as of right now its only viable to stamsorcs because stam regen doesnt matter for them.
maybe give this class a little bonus resource return on heavy attacks.
Tho if it was me I would remove the racial passives entirely, and let people pick their bonus passives instead. I'm forced into redguard and I hate it honestly.
@Ragnarock41 I laugh at people who think orc is weak. You're saying orc should get buffed with more resource return on heavy attacks? Orc has bonuses to damage and healing, very good ones aswell. You want to give it more sustain too? Thats insane. "I'm forced into redguard" You're not forced into anything, its a simple l2p issue. People always seem to think their own class or race is the weakest and you yourself prove it, "Worst Class EU". Maybe change it to "Worst Player EU"?
why are you so triggered? Why are you so mad? orc and redguard basically have very close tooltips, and redguard has sustain on top of good damage. yes, orc has better options when it comes to building for tanking, but only scrubs build to tank in cyrodiil.
Its not a lie orc is garbage outside of stamsorc.
you won't see anyone but stamsorcs use it.
But thats not the point here, why are you such a little triggered **** ?
Are you getting rekt by stams'orcs 7/24? you mad?
Or is it that you're jelaous your stinky redguard doesn't look as cool as an orc?
I dont play a redguard, if you know how to read you can see im playing an imperial stamplar. I also play an orc stamdk (;. One funny thing is i see more stamplars and stamdks use orc than i see stamsorcs use orc. You call me triggered but youre the one who call me a "little ****" and ask me if i get rekt by stamsorcs xD Also called me a stinky redguard but you're the one who plays a redguard? Not me. Also in my opinion redguard is better for tanking because of the op stamreturn and the more max stam.
Orc doesnt need buffs just because you dont know how to play it. So stick to steering wheel redguard
Also pls @me when responding to me, especially when you respond in a salty manner because i love to read it
Well, first thing is, you trashtalked me first, because you coudln't handle my opinion, which is an opinion based on testings I did with both races. I do play an orc stamDK, the only and only thing orc is better at , is using troll king to get an edge on healing.
For everything else, both races perform very similarly, but redguard crushes orc on sustain. crushes it big time.
If you're underestimating how strong adrenaline rush is, and how much flexible it is to make a build on a redguard, you probably never played a stamDK when black rose-redguard stamDKs were all the cryings on the forum.
and even after the nerfs, adrenaline rush is still better sustain than constution, even with black rose, Its how good this passive is.
But sure, orc staying as a niche option is totally fine by me. I don't enjoy seeing redguard on literally every single BiS build, but hey, at least I'm not bitching at people like you do
Thanks for @ing me btw. I wasnt trashtalking at all. Couldnt handle your opinion? Yet you were the one with the aggression calling me mad and a "triggered little ***". I seriously doubt you did advanced tests with both races. I have played stamdk for almost as long as ive played my stamplar main. To be honest i really dont understand what your connection between underestimating adrenaline rush, which i have never done, actually quite the opposite, how much flexible it is to make a build on redguard and black rose redguard stamdk is. Back then you could literally play a high elf stamdk and have infinite sustain. Also adrenaline rush should be stronger than constitution, no reason it shouldnt be. Adrenaline rush rewards you for being offensive/dealing damage and constitution rewards you for being defensive/taking damage.
Again i have never ever underestimated adrenaline rush, its op for sustain. Even after the nerfs i think redguard is almost too strong, sustain-wise. But redguard is supposed to have stamina sustain, like orc is supposed to have damage healing and speed, saying youre forced to go redguard because orc is soooo bad and underpowered is just dumb. Instead of coming on forums to whine about how useless your race and class is, maybe adapt and/or gitgud?
Im just so tired of all this "mimimi i play worst race" "mimimi worst class" from everybody constantly like jesus christ.
And all i get for giving my opinion is "why so mad?" "lol triggered ****"
0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
@Iucky_sage
Because of how regen works. That extra cast you get when you're low. Especially on a healer who doesn't have the luxury of heavy attacking for resources when they are low. That is why Bretons are BiS healers. Its not about how much magic they can recover. Which according to your own math is absolutly competitive. Its about how long they can go without needing to stop to recover. Here is the full picture for you.
Healing Springs
Argonian cost 2580, Return 338*3 = 1566 cost. 30k mag at 1566 cost = 19.1 casts
Breton cost 2491, Return 338*3 = 1477 cost . 30k mag at 1427 cost = 20.3 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats one extra Springs for the Argonian every 104.4 seconds (assuming GCD frequency)
Harness
Argonian cost 3422, Return 1009*3 = 395 cost. 30k mag at 395 cost = 75.9 casts
Breton cost 3291 , Return 1072*3 = 75 cost. 30k mag at 75 cost = 400 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats on extra Harness for the Argonian every 26. 3 seconds.
(assuming GCD frequency)
So... tell me again how Argonians have better sustain than Breton. By the way Springs cost is well under the average, meaning cost reduction is least effective on it and it still crushes Argonian Resourceful
You missed my point that it's a such a small amount even though Argonians get all 3 resources back not just one there should be a bigger difference since they have 1 resource sustain not all 3 and if your not casting an ability every second it's even less mine regen was if a ability we cast every second with bretons
I also had zero other factors than race passiveMaura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Maura_Neysa wrote: »Major in this priority:
-Nord
-Imperial
Minor:
Breton (that 3% is laughable, at least 5 thanks.)
Nord -okay
Imperial - #2 tank? nope don't need buffed
Breton -#1 healer? nope don't need buffedRemove race passives that lock a race into a certain class, ie, Stealthy.
Brets need +4% magic damage, or a boost to 4% for its cost reduction passive
Nords need some sustain passive for stamina (and frost damage perhaps?)
Imperials could use mag/stam recov, or both.
Other way around, every race should have a useless passive for that play style.sneakymitchell wrote: »Nords are fine sure lack of substain but at least you are surviving more hits than usual. Imperials are just fine too. Bretons maybe more love since 1% increase ap isn’t enough for so called buff. And argonians are mainly healers compared to Bretons. Back then it was Bretons who had good healing mostly due to the substain.
1% AP, 1% gold, 1% xp sounds like its right on targetIMO, they need to remove Max <stat> and <stat> Regen from racial skill lines. Move them into the "World" skill tree and let them keep their original level requirements, or similar ones, but let any race choose from them. Create a "Training" tree or "Conditioning". Put all the regen and max stat passives in there, but each separately.
Keep the little bonuses that each race has to keep them different. This would make it so that, while some races stay better for min/maxing, you wont feel crippled by not choosing that race.
For example:- Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
- Argonians would lose Resourceful, and the resistances from Argonian Resistance would be combined into Quick to Mend.
- Redguard would lose Exhilaration and Conditioning, but keep Adrenaline Rush and Wayfarer.
The biggest issue comes with the elves. Their final passives need to be completely redesigned. Other races can be mixed or combined with their other passives, but the elves are simply either too focused or too strong. Maybe Dunmer keep fire restistance and fire damage? Altmer could get bonus shock damage. This could let Nords have a bonus to frost damage. Bosmer could get a bonus to poison and disease.
The reason I'm for changing things is that there's not really a choice for many people. If they want to play magicka, they have to pick from one of 3 races. Most of the time between 2 races: Dunmer and Altmer. If they want to play Stamina, they can pick between Redguard and Redguard.
And yes, it IS noticeable, before anyone says anything. I had an Imperial Stamplar that I switched to magicka at one point. It was awful. I switched back to stam and eventually race changed to Redguard. You can feel the difference. Even passives like the Bretons make playing magicka way more enjoyable.
Altmer tank, caved and went to Argonian, switch back 2 weeks later. Altmer works better.WakeYourGhost wrote: »Creative minds find uses for nearly everything.
That being said - Small adjustments would be fine... As long as the unique flavor of each race, and more importantly it's Lore-based features, remains in place.
TruthLightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »The 3% cost reduction with bretons is a great mag resourse passive, better then the 9% that high elfs get. Not sure what you guys are about.
The average mag cost in the game is around 3k on the low end, so 3% of that is 90. Which in regen terms is 180. To get 180 regen out of the 9% passive you would need 2000 base regen. Noone has that.
TruthSheezabeast wrote: »Nords need bonus to frost damage, it might revitalize a dead weapon line. Frost tanks never really caught on...
Some of us figured it out. Nords could use something though. Personally I think more like Dunmer Frost Resistance and Frost Damage
Bretons arnt best healers. argonians are and are prob close to best tank aswell and for pvp one of the top 3 races for magdk and magplar
Read the whole tread, you'll see it over and over. Breton, Altmer, Argonian, in that order are the best healers. Yes Argonian is BiS tank. Healers at times have to be able to be able to constantly cast, no room for a heavy. This means the best sustain race wins, that Breton. Second best sustain is Altmer. Lastly is Argionan whos resourceful passive is very strong, but also completely useless if the pain comes 20 seconds into a cool down.
@ Maura_Neysa
ok I did the math argonian passives gives 4620 for every potion drank with 45 second cd = 102.666 mag per second
each magicka class with Breton 3% reduce cost = mag per second
dragonknight avg cost 3510 = 105.3 mag per second regen
nightblade avg cost 3060.06 = 91.80 mag per second
warden avg cost 3060.73 = 91.82 mag per second
sorcerer avg cost 3379 = 101.37 mag per second (did not count dark conversion because mag morph cost stam)
Templar avg cost 3516 = 105.48 mag per second
so with just base cost know passive other than Breton not any class or armor passives etc. 3 out of 5 argonians have better sustain with magicka and they get all 3 resources not just mag with not even 3 mag per second that Bretons beats in sustain they get all 3 types so how is Breton better for sustain I did the math they don't win. I am not saying nerf argonians its but Bretons which is the magicka sustain race and argonians are jack of all trades sustain race
id like to add its funny that the melee mag classes have highest cost when part of why stam abilities less is because they are melee
@Iucky_sage
Because of how regen works. That extra cast you get when you're low. Especially on a healer who doesn't have the luxury of heavy attacking for resources when they are low. That is why Bretons are BiS healers. Its not about how much magic they can recover. Which according to your own math is absolutly competitive. Its about how long they can go without needing to stop to recover. Here is the full picture for you.
Healing Springs
Argonian cost 2580, Return 338*3 = 1566 cost. 30k mag at 1566 cost = 19.1 casts
Breton cost 2491, Return 338*3 = 1477 cost . 30k mag at 1427 cost = 20.3 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats one extra Springs for the Argonian every 104.4 seconds (assuming GCD frequency)
Harness
Argonian cost 3422, Return 1009*3 = 395 cost. 30k mag at 395 cost = 75.9 casts
Breton cost 3291 , Return 1072*3 = 75 cost. 30k mag at 75 cost = 400 casts
Assuming your numbers greatest difference of 15 regen, thats on extra Harness for the Argonian every 26. 3 seconds.
(assuming GCD frequency)
So... tell me again how Argonians have better sustain than Breton. By the way Springs cost is well under the average, meaning cost reduction is least effective on it and it still crushes Argonian Resourceful
You missed my point that it's a such a small amount even though Argonians get all 3 resources back not just one there should be a bigger difference since they have 1 resource sustain not all 3 and if your not casting an ability every second it's even less mine regen was if a ability we cast every second with bretons
I would say You missed my point. When looking at it the way you did, it looks small. However 400 Harness us 76 is NOT small at all! Thats 5× as much resource. GCD is 1 second, so thots as resource intensive as you get and its the same thing I used. Outside at PvP your base stamina regen is fine. Health is nice, but useless on a 45 sec wait, and for most who are vampires, the health regen is laughable. 400 Harness in a row with zero regen vs 76 is defenitly better survival than 4k health every 45 seconds.lucky_Sage wrote: »I also had zero other factors than race passive
I also had zero other factors. I literally just made a defult Templar Healer build here
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=38562
and change the race to pull those numbers. The Bretongets muore return from Harness because 10% max magic vs 3% which also means the Breton does better damage and not even the Argoniann Mending makes for better heals 2328 Healing Springs ticks on the Argoniann vs 2308 on the Breton (unless you count the double stack of healing yourself.) That is why Breton are BiS healers.
you had other others factors but if you just pvp or to vet dungeons you can heavy attack a lot out of all the pvp and vet dungeons ive done ive never had to spam heals non stopDC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 - Orcs keep Craftsman and Swift Warrior. Brawny is removed entirely from the game. Unflinching becomes part of the World skill tree. It's a good passive for tanks.
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Imperials are great tanks and Bretons are great healers. No change needed here.
What I think need buffs are Nords, but also Wood Elves. Wood Elves are supposed to be Stam DPS but both Redguard and Khajiit outclass them (Redguard in sustain and Khajiit in damage)
Wood Elves need to be buffed to be comparable to Redguards/Khajiiti in the Stam DPS department. Just my opinion.
Edit: Also in PvE/PvP wise in general, Redguard > Wood Elf in PvE and Khajiit > Wood Elf in PvP. Cmon, buff Wood Elf!Edited by SkyIsTheLimit1206 on March 5, 2018 12:37AMWith strength and intelligence comes hard work.
Which is why not a lot of people are strong nor intelligent.0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SkyIsTheLimit1206 wrote: »Imperials are great tanks and Bretons are great healers. No change needed here.
What I think need buffs are Nords, but also Wood Elves. Wood Elves are supposed to be Stam DPS but both Redguard and Khajiit outclass them (Redguard in sustain and Khajiit in damage)
Wood Elves need to be buffed to be comparable to Redguards/Khajiiti in the Stam DPS department. Just my opinion.
Edit: Also in PvE/PvP wise in general, Redguard > Wood Elf in PvE and Khajiit > Wood Elf in PvP. Cmon, buff Wood Elf!
How are khajiit better in PvP? Everyone runs impen which renders carnage useless.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0