Let's talk about Zaan: It needs adjustments

idk

No offense to OP and not suggesting the set is balanced or mof, but when the example involves the person killed lagging out as part of the issue then it’s not a worthy starting point for this conversation.

ak_pvp

Maulkin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Played in Cyro almost continuously from friday afternoon through sunday night, then played another 5-6 hours last night (rather large sample size in the new patch). I died to this set exactly 0 times. I had it proc on me maybe 3-4 times, each time I was with a few others pounding on a super tank. A roll dodge fixed the problem every time (you can roll while being taloned).

It's a new set (proc can be a surprise), and it is certainly powerful, but the counter-play is mindnumbingly easy, AND IT'S SPELLED OUT IN THE TOOL TIP. Break the freaking beam.

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Um, this is coming from primarily a magic player who typically wears a 1 piece monster set and no proc sets. Who are the bads again? Those that are are objectively looking at a skill or those crying because they cant manage to save enough stamina for a freaking roll dodge...

First let me just re-iterate that I'm impartial yet because I don't have a large sample size myself to form a personal opinion. But...

First you claim to have a large sample size yourself, then you claim you only got hit 3/4 times. That's contradicting. 3-4 times is not a large sample size. How long you played without getting hit, is about as relevant in this discussion as how long you played before Zaan came into the game. Completely irrelevant that is.

Secondly, you yourself claim that each time you got hit it was you with a few others Xv1'ing another (tanky) player. Which means you never came under any pressure since you were outnumbering them. You could simply do a dodge roll to free from talons, while the DK was probably too busy trying to survive his 1vX instead of driving home the advantage of the proc. If Zaan alone was strong enough to kill you while outnumbering that single player, it wouldn't just be OP, it would be god-mode broken.

All that tells me is that you have 0 real sample size of how it performs in even situations. So if I were you, I would refrain from making conclusion this early and wait for a) more people to get the set and b) get hit a lot more and under different circumstances.

So basically you are saying that Zaan is situational and not good at all if you have any group...

It's also countered by purge or cloak or mist, or some method of root immunity to pin you down. Or CC immunity.

Apparently it doesn't break from LOS which it should do. But that is all I would change personally.

But if the court of public opinion decides it to be nerfed. At least keep it decent on PvE.

Nelson_Rebel

You know what OP


Mag Dk's have not been shafted hard enough yet. I completely agree, we should nerf Zaan. We should nerf sun, we should ensure ANY and ALL flame damage sets in the game that even have one ounce of usefulness for the weakest and most underperforming class since 1.6 where they have been continually nerfed, are completely erased. All sets with flame or relatable to the DK.

Because no one should ever kill you with anything man. I'm right there with you. You should just LOOK at a mag dk and they should die, how dare they use a different class with a working skill and armor setup that can actually damage you. For shame

#Nerf ZAAN, Nerf moar Dk's, nerf Class Variety.




@Wrobel

Let's make it happen. Do it, keep nerfing Dragonknights man, you haven't done enough yet. The weakest class is still able to kill someone, you need moar nerfs to DK. Quick before any more players actually die to a DK

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Maulkin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Played in Cyro almost continuously from friday afternoon through sunday night, then played another 5-6 hours last night (rather large sample size in the new patch). I died to this set exactly 0 times. I had it proc on me maybe 3-4 times, each time I was with a few others pounding on a super tank. A roll dodge fixed the problem every time (you can roll while being taloned).

It's a new set (proc can be a surprise), and it is certainly powerful, but the counter-play is mindnumbingly easy, AND IT'S SPELLED OUT IN THE TOOL TIP. Break the freaking beam.

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Um, this is coming from primarily a magic player who typically wears a 1 piece monster set and no proc sets. Who are the bads again? Those that are are objectively looking at a skill or those crying because they cant manage to save enough stamina for a freaking roll dodge...

First let me just re-iterate that I'm impartial yet because I don't have a large sample size myself to form a personal opinion. But...

First you claim to have a large sample size yourself, then you claim you only got hit 3/4 times. That's contradicting. 3-4 times is not a large sample size. How long you played without getting hit, is about as relevant in this discussion as how long you played before Zaan came into the game. Completely irrelevant that is.

Secondly, you yourself claim that each time you got hit it was you with a few others Xv1'ing another (tanky) player. Which means you never came under any pressure since you were outnumbering them. You could simply do a dodge roll to free from talons, while the DK was probably too busy trying to survive his 1vX instead of driving home the advantage of the proc. If Zaan alone was strong enough to kill you while outnumbering that single player, it wouldn't just be OP, it would be god-mode broken.

All that tells me is that you have 0 real sample size of how it performs in even situations. So if I were you, I would refrain from making conclusion this early and wait for a) more people to get the set and b) get hit a lot more and under different circumstances.

@Maulkin
So basically, the exact opposite of the focus of this thread...

None of us have a large sample size, the set has been out for a week. As someone that played a crap load of PVP over the weekend, I think my sample size of it's impact on Cyrodiil as a whole is relevant, and that is the most important thing when talking about balance.

Lots of sets over perform in isolated scenarios with unique matchups, but that doesnt necessarily make that set overpowered as a whole. If you balance around dueling for example, there is a good chance that you will miss the bigger picture. The point is that it's not even on my radar as a glaring balance problem, other than from the forums (although admittedly, I want to give it a try after this thread). I think it is absolutely a powerful setup for certain build styles, and I dont mean to suggest that it is a weak set by any stretch. That said, I think it is a set that can be countered and avoided. I have no issues with powerful sets and abilities as long as there is clear counter-play.

The glaring difference between this set and something like viper (or any other stam proc set) is that viper would essentially kill people nearly instantly from stealth. The damage was instant, and extremely difficult to avoid, especially in a gank situtation. I dont see this set as becoming a gankers paradise as it takes too long to do its thing. I see this as being an effective set on tanky melee specs like mageplar and mDK, both are classes that you need to be careful with in melee range whether or not they wear this set.

I just think that this thread is a perfect example of the problems with these forums. People see a crazy death recap, ignore context (like the fact that its a DOT, or its fire and you are a vamp, or the fact that Cyro was a lag fest at the time), and immediately cry for a nerf. It may very well be that this set needs a small adjustment, but good lord, give things a minute to settle down.

Abysswarrior45

All PvE content could be completed prior to Zaan's appearance. All PvE content was competitive prior to Zaan's appearance. Most PvE content is too damn easy with the insane dps people can achieve/could achieve prior to Zaan's appearance. Seems to me PvE players are all about this extra dps without having to learn a simple rotation and all try and bypass mechanics with high dps rather than learn them. PvE players are spoiled and arrogant. ZOS delivers new content and updates for PvE players every damn patch. PvP is completely broken and has been of a long while. NOBODY should have free damage. If you need free damage to achieve high dps/complete content then YOU'RE the one who needs to L2P. This set looks to be completely broken. In PvP if you roll dodge, the enemy player with Zaan will continue to walk forward and the beam will stick. A person with 4k vigor ticks has a severely limited build dedicated to high vigor ticks and nothing more, and if thats 4k incoming damage per second theres no way you'll out-heal the enemy player since they're dpsing you WHILE Zaan is ticking away. This set definitely needs a nerf. If you rely on free damage L2P without it.

LordSemaj

JobooAGS wrote: »

Perhaps not be a vamp and therefore make zaan 25% weaker

Girl_Number8

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Lmao~ You deserve a broken game. Many people are just tired of snowflakes (copy paste players) whining and ruining everything. L2P which means adjust your build and playstyle to the current state of the game, where bad players are carried by nerfs and lag. Oh wait, you can't L2P lag

Minalan

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You know what OP


Mag Dk's have not been shafted hard enough yet. I completely agree, we should nerf Zaan. We should nerf sun, we should ensure ANY and ALL flame damage sets in the game that even have one ounce of usefulness for the weakest and most underperforming class since 1.6 where they have been continually nerfed, are completely erased. All sets with flame or relatable to the DK.

Because no one should ever kill you with anything man. I'm right there with you. You should just LOOK at a mag dk and they should die, how dare they use a different class with a working skill and armor setup that can actually damage you. For shame

#Nerf ZAAN, Nerf moar Dk's, nerf Class Variety.




@Wrobel

Let's make it happen. Do it, keep nerfing Dragonknights man, you haven't done enough yet. The weakest class is still able to kill someone, you need moar nerfs to DK. Quick before any more players actually die to a DK

Are you crying in real life because some people think a broken OP monster set needs an adjustment?

It doesn’t even need that big of a nerf, like add two more seconds to the duration and spread the damage out further.

Weakest class?

Nelson_Rebel

Minalan wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You know what OP


Mag Dk's have not been shafted hard enough yet. I completely agree, we should nerf Zaan. We should nerf sun, we should ensure ANY and ALL flame damage sets in the game that even have one ounce of usefulness for the weakest and most underperforming class since 1.6 where they have been continually nerfed, are completely erased. All sets with flame or relatable to the DK.

Because no one should ever kill you with anything man. I'm right there with you. You should just LOOK at a mag dk and they should die, how dare they use a different class with a working skill and armor setup that can actually damage you. For shame

#Nerf ZAAN, Nerf moar Dk's, nerf Class Variety.




@Wrobel

Let's make it happen. Do it, keep nerfing Dragonknights man, you haven't done enough yet. The weakest class is still able to kill someone, you need moar nerfs to DK. Quick before any more players actually die to a DK

Are you crying in real life because some people think a broken OP monster set needs an adjustment?

It doesn’t even need that big of a nerf, like add two more seconds to the duration and spread the damage out further.

Weakest class?

Nope, DK's should be worthless hold block players only. No dps allowed


Let's do it guys, make everything worthless for
Dk's Im right there with you all


I'm counting on narrow minded people to make it all a reality. Please moar please

Maulkin

ak_pvp wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Played in Cyro almost continuously from friday afternoon through sunday night, then played another 5-6 hours last night (rather large sample size in the new patch). I died to this set exactly 0 times. I had it proc on me maybe 3-4 times, each time I was with a few others pounding on a super tank. A roll dodge fixed the problem every time (you can roll while being taloned).

It's a new set (proc can be a surprise), and it is certainly powerful, but the counter-play is mindnumbingly easy, AND IT'S SPELLED OUT IN THE TOOL TIP. Break the freaking beam.

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Um, this is coming from primarily a magic player who typically wears a 1 piece monster set and no proc sets. Who are the bads again? Those that are are objectively looking at a skill or those crying because they cant manage to save enough stamina for a freaking roll dodge...

First let me just re-iterate that I'm impartial yet because I don't have a large sample size myself to form a personal opinion. But...

First you claim to have a large sample size yourself, then you claim you only got hit 3/4 times. That's contradicting. 3-4 times is not a large sample size. How long you played without getting hit, is about as relevant in this discussion as how long you played before Zaan came into the game. Completely irrelevant that is.

Secondly, you yourself claim that each time you got hit it was you with a few others Xv1'ing another (tanky) player. Which means you never came under any pressure since you were outnumbering them. You could simply do a dodge roll to free from talons, while the DK was probably too busy trying to survive his 1vX instead of driving home the advantage of the proc. If Zaan alone was strong enough to kill you while outnumbering that single player, it wouldn't just be OP, it would be god-mode broken.

All that tells me is that you have 0 real sample size of how it performs in even situations. So if I were you, I would refrain from making conclusion this early and wait for a) more people to get the set and b) get hit a lot more and under different circumstances.

So basically you are saying that Zaan is situational and not good at all if you have any group...

It's also countered by purge or cloak or mist, or some method of root immunity to pin you down. Or CC immunity.

Apparently it doesn't break from LOS which it should do. But that is all I would change personally.

But if the court of public opinion decides it to be nerfed. At least keep it decent on PvE.

A lot of proc sets are situational. A Skoria proc is pretty useless too when you're fighting a 1v4 for example, whereas a BloodSpawn, Engine Guardian or Troll King proc could save your life. That doesn't mean Skoria is bad does it?

I certainly don't want it to be nerfed at the moment, since I have no strong evidence of it being OP in PvP. I find this thread a bit premature in fact. Give it a couple of months and we'll have a more appropriate sample size to form an opinion.

I personally think that on paper, it's not good for most MagDKs that play S&B and have only base weapon crit chance (which they never use if they block-cast most skills anyway). I think most people try to use it wrongly. For us S&B DKs, Skoria is better. A destro build with Flames of Oblivion it would be very strong on. Though these are very rare in the BGs, which is where I mostly play.

I actually think (on paper again) that it would work even better for NBs than DKs in PvP. Cloak up, go close, proc it with 100% crit chance from cloak, when the enemy tries to move out Fear and Incap them to proc insane damage bonus from Incap on the last ticks while they are also slowed from Fear and Defiled. It's not even a "gank" build, just a regular build.

Merlin13KAGL

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

All PvE content could be completed prior to Zaan's appearance. All PvE content was competitive prior to Zaan's appearance. Most PvE content is too damn easy with the insane dps people can achieve/could achieve prior to Zaan's appearance. Seems to me PvE players are all about this extra dps without having to learn a simple rotation and all try and bypass mechanics with high dps rather than learn them. PvE players are spoiled and arrogant. ZOS delivers new content and updates for PvE players every damn patch. PvP is completely broken and has been of a long while. NOBODY should have free damage. If you need free damage to achieve high dps/complete content then YOU'RE the one who needs to L2P. This set looks to be completely broken. In PvP if you roll dodge, the enemy player with Zaan will continue to walk forward and the beam will stick. A person with 4k vigor ticks has a severely limited build dedicated to high vigor ticks and nothing more, and if thats 4k incoming damage per second theres no way you'll out-heal the enemy player since they're dpsing you WHILE Zaan is ticking away. This set definitely needs a nerf. If you rely on free damage L2P without it.

It's 3k dps average.

Three. K.

Again, the difference is that is comes in situational burst.

For all the argument about situations where you can't increase the distance between you and your opponent, aren't most melee builds designed with that in mind? Those situations are what stuns/knockbacks/CC's/snares are supposed to help counter.

Zaan is not the only thing that hurts if someone manages to lock you down or keep up with you.

The fastest way to fix this is for all the 'non-bad' PvP players to follow the proclaimed OP meta. Equip Zaan yourself.

If it's carrying bad PvP players, surely it will be an insane tool for the good ones. Bad's will once again stand no chance, and you can certainly get ZoS's attention even more by going with the flow.

Maybe Zaan isn't the problem. Maybe Zaan is just making a different problem a bit more evident?

Mureel

I often think pvpers get together and take bets on what they can get ZOS to nerf. xD

Waffennacht

Let me just say:

I called Tremorscale, TK, Panacea, Shield Wall, Viper, and a few others during their PTS
They all have been nerfed

I'm calling this one, make with it as you will

Feanor

So, for all of you defending the set: Is it

a) not good anyway (easy counterplay) so it doesn’t need to be adjusted

or

b) good despite the counterplay?

In the first case an adjustment wouldn’t be consequential because nobody would use the set anyway. In the second case the counterplay argument is way weaker because a set that has easy counterplay must be borderline OP - or people wouldn’t equip it if it’s countered so easily.

So which is it?

Joy_Division

Maulkin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Played in Cyro almost continuously from friday afternoon through sunday night, then played another 5-6 hours last night (rather large sample size in the new patch). I died to this set exactly 0 times. I had it proc on me maybe 3-4 times, each time I was with a few others pounding on a super tank. A roll dodge fixed the problem every time (you can roll while being taloned).

It's a new set (proc can be a surprise), and it is certainly powerful, but the counter-play is mindnumbingly easy, AND IT'S SPELLED OUT IN THE TOOL TIP. Break the freaking beam.

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Um, this is coming from primarily a magic player who typically wears a 1 piece monster set and no proc sets. Who are the bads again? Those that are are objectively looking at a skill or those crying because they cant manage to save enough stamina for a freaking roll dodge...

First let me just re-iterate that I'm impartial yet because I don't have a large sample size myself to form a personal opinion. But...

First you claim to have a large sample size yourself, then you claim you only got hit 3/4 times. That's contradicting.

Not necessarily.

I have PvPed every night and have yet to die from this either nor have been hit by it very often.

You can interpret this as a lot of people don't have this set,which is fine. But if a lot of people don't have this set and there is few large sample sizes available, then all the people complaining about this set are also overstating a small sample size.

I have used it myself and I think the reason I haven't been killed by it, let alone hit very much, is because the set has fairly restrictive conditions to proc it. If it's been used by enough player and enough instances for people to declare it's OP and needs adjustment, then people can judge it not to be OP.

Maulkin

Joy_Division wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Played in Cyro almost continuously from friday afternoon through sunday night, then played another 5-6 hours last night (rather large sample size in the new patch). I died to this set exactly 0 times. I had it proc on me maybe 3-4 times, each time I was with a few others pounding on a super tank. A roll dodge fixed the problem every time (you can roll while being taloned).

It's a new set (proc can be a surprise), and it is certainly powerful, but the counter-play is mindnumbingly easy, AND IT'S SPELLED OUT IN THE TOOL TIP. Break the freaking beam.

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Um, this is coming from primarily a magic player who typically wears a 1 piece monster set and no proc sets. Who are the bads again? Those that are are objectively looking at a skill or those crying because they cant manage to save enough stamina for a freaking roll dodge...

First let me just re-iterate that I'm impartial yet because I don't have a large sample size myself to form a personal opinion. But...

First you claim to have a large sample size yourself, then you claim you only got hit 3/4 times. That's contradicting.

Not necessarily.

I have PvPed every night and have yet to die from this either nor have been hit by it very often.

You can interpret this as a lot of people don't have this set,which is fine. But if a lot of people don't have this set and there is few large sample sizes available, then all the people complaining about this set are also overstating a small sample size.

Yes, necessarily. I don't expect to have to explain why 3 procs under a very particular set of cricumstances is not enough of a sample size, please don't make me. I'd rather explain why earth isn't flat.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Both sides are judging the set prematurely. Further up I clearly said we need probably couple of months to form an opinion that is based on enough empirical evidence. The reason why I picked on that poster in particular is because he somehow claimed that he had a large sample. When he obviously didn't.

ak_pvp

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

You know what OP


Mag Dk's have not been shafted hard enough yet. I completely agree, we should nerf Zaan. We should nerf sun, we should ensure ANY and ALL flame damage sets in the game that even have one ounce of usefulness for the weakest and most underperforming class since 1.6 where they have been continually nerfed, are completely erased. All sets with flame or relatable to the DK.

Because no one should ever kill you with anything man. I'm right there with you. You should just LOOK at a mag dk and they should die, how dare they use a different class with a working skill and armor setup that can actually damage you. For shame

#Nerf ZAAN, Nerf moar Dk's, nerf Class Variety.




@Wrobel

Let's make it happen. Do it, keep nerfing Dragonknights man, you haven't done enough yet. The weakest class is still able to kill someone, you need moar nerfs to DK. Quick before any more players actually die to a DK

Are you crying in real life because some people think a broken OP monster set needs an adjustment?

It doesn’t even need that big of a nerf, like add two more seconds to the duration and spread the damage out further.

Weakest class?

Nope, DK's should be worthless hold block players only. No dps allowed


Let's do it guys, make everything worthless for
Dk's Im right there with you all


I'm counting on narrow minded people to make it all a reality. Please moar please

I agree DK has been nerfed to ***. But clutching on gear is never a good thing, it leads to nerfing of classes because of gear. I don't even thing zaan is that strong though.

ol_BANK_lo

magorim wrote: »

Hi,

is it really necessary that two pieces of armor are doing such a huge free damage without costing ressources or some form of downsides? I mean, I was lagging and it was hard to get away from the beam on top of wonky weapon swapping but ~19k damage from just two armor pieces is not balanced it's stupid and broken.
And before the PvE heros start to cry, it's not balanced in PvE, too. Far from it. It should always be the player doing high damage and it should cost ressources (ultimate, stamina, magicka) to achieve it.

Stop. Just stop with the nerf hammer. It fits in relation to being single target vs the lesser single target damage of something like Grothdarr (but hits more target). Just stop.

ak_pvp

Feanor wrote: »

So, for all of you defending the set: Is it

a) not good anyway (easy counterplay) so it doesn’t need to be adjusted

or

b) good despite the counterplay?

In the first case an adjustment wouldn’t be consequential because nobody would use the set anyway. In the second case the counterplay argument is way weaker because a set that has easy counterplay must be borderline OP - or people wouldn’t equip it if it’s countered so easily.

So which is it?

"Because a set that has easy counterplay must be borderline OP - or people wouldn’t equip it if it’s countered so easily. "

That is a leap and a half m8. You are basically saying "Its OP, or its useless."

What it is, is that if it had no counterplay. Its OP. But because it does have counterplay. It becomes a situationally decent set.

Abysswarrior45

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

All PvE content could be completed prior to Zaan's appearance. All PvE content was competitive prior to Zaan's appearance. Most PvE content is too damn easy with the insane dps people can achieve/could achieve prior to Zaan's appearance. Seems to me PvE players are all about this extra dps without having to learn a simple rotation and all try and bypass mechanics with high dps rather than learn them. PvE players are spoiled and arrogant. ZOS delivers new content and updates for PvE players every damn patch. PvP is completely broken and has been of a long while. NOBODY should have free damage. If you need free damage to achieve high dps/complete content then YOU'RE the one who needs to L2P. This set looks to be completely broken. In PvP if you roll dodge, the enemy player with Zaan will continue to walk forward and the beam will stick. A person with 4k vigor ticks has a severely limited build dedicated to high vigor ticks and nothing more, and if thats 4k incoming damage per second theres no way you'll out-heal the enemy player since they're dpsing you WHILE Zaan is ticking away. This set definitely needs a nerf. If you rely on free damage L2P without it.

It's 3k dps average.

Three. K.

Again, the difference is that is comes in situational burst.

For all the argument about situations where you can't increase the distance between you and your opponent, aren't most melee builds designed with that in mind? Those situations are what stuns/knockbacks/CC's/snares are supposed to help counter.

Zaan is not the only thing that hurts if someone manages to lock you down or keep up with you.

The fastest way to fix this is for all the 'non-bad' PvP players to follow the proclaimed OP meta. Equip Zaan yourself.

If it's carrying bad PvP players, surely it will be an insane tool for the good ones. Bad's will once again stand no chance, and you can certainly get ZoS's attention even more by going with the flow.

Maybe Zaan isn't the problem. Maybe Zaan is just making a different problem a bit more evident?

CC immunity and immovables not to mention the crazy roots and snares everyone has. Its a stupid set. Proc dmg in general is stupid.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Maulkin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Played in Cyro almost continuously from friday afternoon through sunday night, then played another 5-6 hours last night (rather large sample size in the new patch). I died to this set exactly 0 times. I had it proc on me maybe 3-4 times, each time I was with a few others pounding on a super tank. A roll dodge fixed the problem every time (you can roll while being taloned).

It's a new set (proc can be a surprise), and it is certainly powerful, but the counter-play is mindnumbingly easy, AND IT'S SPELLED OUT IN THE TOOL TIP. Break the freaking beam.

bigdavid11b16_ESO wrote: »

all the people defending zaan are the bads whom got CARRIED with viper tremor selenes

Um, this is coming from primarily a magic player who typically wears a 1 piece monster set and no proc sets. Who are the bads again? Those that are are objectively looking at a skill or those crying because they cant manage to save enough stamina for a freaking roll dodge...

First let me just re-iterate that I'm impartial yet because I don't have a large sample size myself to form a personal opinion. But...

First you claim to have a large sample size yourself, then you claim you only got hit 3/4 times. That's contradicting.

Not necessarily.

I have PvPed every night and have yet to die from this either nor have been hit by it very often.

You can interpret this as a lot of people don't have this set,which is fine. But if a lot of people don't have this set and there is few large sample sizes available, then all the people complaining about this set are also overstating a small sample size.

Yes, necessarily. I don't expect to have to explain why 3 procs under a very particular set of cricumstances is not enough of a sample size, please don't make me. I'd rather explain why earth isn't flat.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Both sides are judging the set prematurely. Further up I clearly said we need probably couple of months to form an opinion that is based on enough empirical evidence. The reason why I picked on that poster in particular is because he somehow claimed that he had a large sample. When he obviously didn't.

Actually what I wrote was "rather large sample size in the new patch." Again, none of us have a big enough sample size to judge this set in its entirety, not me, not you, not the OP. And certainly one out of context death recap is not enough to judge it.

My point was that in 3.5 days of continuous playing, I didnt personally find this set to be an issue. The handful of times I saw it hit me, I was able to avoid it. All any of us can do is make observations based on our own experiences. In my experience, I have not found this set to be OP. I was very upfront that I havent spent this patch dueling magDKs. I play open world for the most part, where you encounter a little bit of everything. Sounds like we actually agree that the dust needs to settle.

Jhalin

OP trying to act like this is some kind of burst set, as if it can't be entirely mitigated, or broken and set on a giant cooldown. It's not OP. There is clear counter play. PvPers not wanting to adjust to counter something doesn't mean the set is overpowered, it just means those players are lazy.

It's barely an improvement for melee mag classes in PvE, and they haven't gotten anything good from ZOS in a long time

magorim

idk wrote: »

No offense to OP and not suggesting the set is balanced or mof, but when the example involves the person killed lagging out as part of the issue then it’s not a worthy starting point for this conversation.

Well, for example today I had a 11k Zaan and a 7k ult on the same recap. It was a common BG situation with multiple people involved, CCs, snares, I was too thirsty, it is how it is right. But we're talking here about a random proc from two pieces of armor dealing more damage than an ultimate in this case. How is that ok? Because of the cooldown? Because it's just single-target? Because it's just random and I was unlucky?

Again, we're talking here about a two piece set able to deal damage compared to ultimates. You can tell me what you want but that fact alone is totally wrong.

Let's take it a step further and make it even more ridiculous:

Balls of Molag Wrobal
(1) 2% Healing Done
(2) 8.5% chance to kill instantly an enemy player or take a dungeon boss into execute range
with the mighty power of a light attack, has a cooldown of 30 minutes, 12 meter radius

Should be fine with that cooldown, it translates to low dps and has a low proc chance, single-target, counterplay available. Must be fine but it sounds kinda dumb? Yeah yeah, it does, and that's the same dumbness people actually defend about procsets (and yes I do know that there is no set insta killing stuff yada yada) like Zaan.

And if you say that sets like Zaan are needed to help classes (a random proc). Do you really think that it's the right way? The current state of the game in general feels so "unstable" because we're only getting band-aid fixes and Zaan is nothing more if you say it's needed.

glavius

Tested Zaan abit on pts. As a NB I am quite happy. Cloak counters it completely, regardless if I am marked in any way.
This also means I will not make a Zaan build myself since 40% of cyrodiil can counter it easily.
But sucks alot for templars/wardens/dks that dont have a counter. Would have been fun against non NB's though. 46440 tooltip damage on no cp, against an enemy 70% snared by lotus fan, and with 5280 spell penetration from pierce armor, +8% damage from minor berserk, and 20% extra damage as soon as it would proc from incap.

60k effective tooltip, and combined with the preasure from regular damage a death sentence to anyone without cloak/streak.

(27k dmg after battlespirit/mitigation on a 12k armor target, aka most light armor guys, 25k dmg after battlespirit/mitigation on a 17k armor target, and 21k dmg after battlespirit/mitigation on a 25k armor target)
And almost 34k dmg after battlespirit/mitigation on a 12k armor stage 4 vamp player :-)
All this on no CP. Values would be slightly different on CP.

But well, given the fact that cloak counters it completely, it's more of a niche build, that will make any for any non nb/sorc that fights against it want to quit.

And no, I am pretty sure there would be no counter play possible against the above NB build if you were are templar/warden/dk.

xeNNNNN

Forgot too mention something...hilarious and weird in my previous post so ill just add it here instead of making the wall of text bigger.

Zaan can proc off of reflected light and heavy attacks.

Only reason I noticed was because I put up reflective plate in BGs and it proc'ed when they got their light attacks reflected back at them lol

My reaction was something akin too "0.o"

Tryxus

1st time I faced this set, I took the full blast due to being Talonned, and I got hit for 27k damage in total. Granted, I was a stage 4 vampire but it's still a ludicrous amount of damage (it's still about 20k without vampirism).

Sure, it does have counterplay, but 10m is quite the distance and easily closed. Along with Magicka users having to manage their Stamina, the damage grows so large that it puts quite some pressure on healing and shielding through it (like blocking Soul Assault on a Stam char)

For a 2pc set, this is wayyyyyy too much. I never advocate for nerfs of any kind, but for this I'm gonna have to make an exception: it needs a strong nerf

Malamar1229

#sorclivesmatter

glavius

Can be purged too. So basically this set is trash vs. templars, sorcs and nbs. And godmode vs. wardens and dks.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

This is why we can't have nice things. It's 19k damage over time. The burst potential (assuming the 19k is accurate) is 19k/5s or <4K DPS. I've seen vigor heal more than 4K/s, and shields can mitigate much more than this.

Then there's the cooldown of 15s, so Zaan is only doing 19k/15s or around 1.3K DPS on average (in PVP, this is doubled for PVE).

There's the obvious counter of moving out of the beam before it ramps up the damage. 10m is not far to break. There are plenty of skills available to create distance.

It is actually pretty nice to have something that makes melee builds have to think twice before spamming gap closers to stay on top of Magicka builds.

Have fun getting away from a MagDK with Zaan as Magicka char.

There are no MagDK's, they died with Dragon Bones update.

iam a magic dk in pvp and use that set sometimes

xeNNNNN

glavius wrote: »

Can be purged too. So basically this set is trash vs. templars, sorcs and nbs. And godmode vs. wardens and dks.

Not really DKs. Fossilse, Roll back, beam breaks. 18s CD. Or just root with talons or stun with SB if stam or uppercut them. Its really not hard to break my Mag DK can tank most of it and by the time the last few ticks are there the beam is broken.