Could we please be a bit more noob (new player) friendly?

Runefang

Some of these new people are just adverse to learning though.

I asked somebody if they needed food to which their reply was 'I don't do food'. I said it wasn't really optional and offered to give them some. They didn't reply and wouldn't talk the rest of the dungeon. Role play a starving character all you want but don't do it in a group setting.

So I did 75% group dps (healer did the bulk of the rest judging by the skills I saw going off) and carried him to the end. I wasn't mean and didn't push the issue but if it was a vet dungeon id certainly have kicked.

Ch4mpTW

It’s pretty bad with the amount of toxicity beginning to breed in this game. It’s still nowhere near as bad as WoW in its prime, but still. It’s pretty awful. Actually. No. I take that back. It’s worse than WoW, as back then there really wasn’t too much acceptance for being a scumbag to folks. The hostility always had a base of some sorts, and would begin upon error of some sort. Nowadays, it’s just full-blown snapping without a reason.

It also doesn’t help that a few of those “elite” players behave like total d-bags on both these forums and in-game, often making a less-welcoming atmosphere for the upcoming player. All the while subtly teaching them that once you reach a certain level of “skill”, that is how you are supposed to behave. Which of course is definitely wrong. And definitely far from the truth.

But what I’m most curious about, is when all the toxicity and elitism started in this game. Because it for damn sure didn’t always be this way. Nor was it tolerated by neither the PvE or PvP communities. Now it has become somewhat normal, and something to just brush off. When in fact it is something that should be called out, and if done on this forum should be punishable. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people from the top raiding guilds belittle people on these forums, and get a pass for it due to their guild housing a “popular” or “well-respected” YouTuber or Twitch streamer. Or because they maybe have written this and that guide. When those things mean nothing, if the writer’s behavior is totally disrespectful and rude.

My suggestion...? Regardless of how “pro” a member of your guild is, if you catch them behaving like a tool on these forums or in-game? Kick them. Why? Because they’re giving a bad reputation for your guild, AND you’re housing a toxic player. I bet all those “git gud” sayers and people who like to make players feel insignificant would cut that bs out real quick, as their source of credibility and fame would be at risk. And then on ZOS’ end, start cracking down hard on the elitists and toxic players. Don’t mention guilds that have these players when talking about congratulating a guild for the so-called “world’s first”, if that’s guild has been known to be disrespectful and rude on the forums or in-game. That’d definitely start making a lot of people second-guess coming out of the side of their neck to players. Because again, their “clout” is at risk. And we all know how much these players love their e-fame and notoriety.

monktoasty

Knock knock

Who's is there

Elitist

Elitist who

Elitist later I'm not hungry right now

QuebraRegra

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

I see mostly people being helpful, except in vet dungeons.

I think there's a certain expectation when you enter a "VET" dungeon....

rynth

When it comes to group finder and dungeons yeah people can be real jackasses and best bet is to just join a guild that does that sort of thing and is looking for new people. This is an MMO and well naturally your going to have to have some thick skin to survive public stuff like group finder for dungeons. Nothing will ever change that, that I can see in the future.

As for game mechanics ZOS already offers A LOT of information to do things as well as now with leveling and synergy. Not to mention that "Google" and "YouTube" offer many, many avenues to the game play. This game can not be "dumbed" down anymore, there is going to have to be some work on the individual's half to read the information provided. The issue is a lot of people new or returning are too lazy to do any reading or research. They want to be spoon fed the information not to mention also the blatant stupid question(s) that are asked that if they just to a second to think about it the answer is obvious or easy to find. Such as how do I access my map, journal, etc. these answers a lot of times will get trolled on and to a certain extent deserve to be trolled on. Or you get a returning player makes stupid comment "I've been away for a long time has anything changed?" Look the information up yourself for one thing if your a returning player you should have some knowledge of the game and know where the information is. Not to mention only you know how long you were gone and what you have missed again by looking it up.

If it's an issue of your doing a new dungeon your not familiar with well again probably need to get into a guild because if your not lucky most of time you get in with jackasses that will kick you if you are inexperienced or having troubles.

Personally I don't care if someone is new or not I just want to run the dungeon and after awhile we call it quits cause for whatever reason we can't complete the dungeon I'm cool with that this is just a game and I play for fun. in the real life this game doesn't mean anything since I'm not paid to play this game.

Zypheran

Just as a general comment:
If your comments on this thread include references to how great you are in dungeons or how others aren't here as long as you or know the game as well as you.... You're probably part of the problem!

Adernath

jabrone77 wrote: »

Who's asking to dumb down the game? I see a request to be nicer to other, newer players. That is in no way, shape, or form, dumbing down the game. It's asking for less jerkish behavior from more experienced players, or maybe even being helpful. How is sharing knowledge "dumbing down"? Teaching others makes them smarter, not dumbing them down...c'mon, now..

The problem is mainly due to the fact that vet players share the same content than beginners. Asking generally to be nice... well the game is played by all sorts of people and a rather pointless request, don't you agree?

Ydrisselle wrote: »

I don't know any MMO where there are enough veteran skilled HC players to justify making extreme hard content just for them (not even in WoW). The majority always are casual or simply not joining the min-maxer club - and since there are way more of them, it's generally a better idea to make content mainly for them.

WoW is just a perfect example. The starter zones are for low level and higher-level content is elsewhere.

Feanor

Most people are totally noob friendly. If these stay out of harder vet dungeons.

hamgatan

LordSemaj wrote: »

New players shouldn't be expecting to be treated like the 700+ club.

Careful. This is dangerous terminology to use as it can easily be construed as CP Elitism..

The assumption that someone with 1000CP is good is in itself a lie. Its no longer a measure of skill but one of the size of ones electronic gentleman's sausage.

I get questioned even with a smidge under 700. Yes no joke. There are 1000+ players that make that assumption, and frankly some are plain terrible but that's an entirely different argument I could spend all day on. I just don't have the time anymore to keep up with the cap every time they extend the goalposts. Ive become too much if a casual in the last year and have probably barely squeezed out 25 hours of gameplay at most.

Here's the reality of what they (and everyone else forgets) though,

When we flipped to the CP system years ago, I was playing for 8+ hrs a day and had 6+ VR16 Chars. We were awarded 160CP to begin with if we had a single character at VR16. This was so there would not be a disparate gap between CP levels on players that had 1 VR char vs those that had 8. Imagine if we had received the proper CP allocation based on all the XP we had attained account wide.. myself and every other player who grinded out those Vet Ranks would have jumped off the blocks with 800+ CP to begin with, making the cap at the time look stupid. Now take into account the CP have earned since (520).. I'd have the equivalent of 1320 CP.+ (That's not even counting the 300+ I've grinded out on XB1 also.)

Does my account reflect that? No. I'm not even taking into account the adjustments to XP either before Vet Ranks XP requirements was scaled down. Those were harder times indeed. Players since then have earned CP account wide after hitting L50. A far easier grind. Instead I display a modest 670CP and get judged for it. Its perplexing because the CP system does not show the true experience of players who have been here since day one.

Therefore making the assumption that a high CP player is somewhat better is toxic in itself and propagating that culture is poisonous.

I actually don't mind running with lower CP people. People forget that communication is paramount. Ive always got time for humble people who just straight up say 'look I've never done this, what do I need to do?' Everyone has to learn somewhere, but I think with what you're touching on late in your post with people expecting to be carried and crying foul - this is a relatively new thing from a new player base that appears to be a lot younger with a narrower attention span than they used to be.

Not to be ageist, but you are right there with that. I won't carry the 'i want it now' generation either if they carry on like pork chops. I don't do it IRL with any of my employees. I'm not going to do it here. Things have to be earned in life, this is what my parents instilled on me. Basic human values.

SquareSausage

There are too many Noobs spoiling group finder.
If Noobs aren't told to use food, get better DPS or L2P they will continue to be Noobs spoiling not only their own enjoyment in grp stuff but others too.

Getting kicked from grp and/or bashed is the rights of passage ceremonies all Noobs must endure.

AnviOfVai

Whenever I encounter a new player I have always seen them treated with respect. This is in PVP. I have seen a player who was struggling with controls asking for help in the chat and everyone was being very supportive, except maybe one or two odd comments.

I have given a new player gold to buy a mount because I got so sad when I saw him running behind our group and getting left behind. I asked where his mount was and he had not bought one yet because he did not have enough gold... so it was my good deed of the year. lol

I remember when I first joined and I struggled to even get gold, and players would make me armor for free because apparently I was terrible...which I learned from I hope. So thank you to all the kind souls who made/bought me armor.

Kel

Adernath wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Who's asking to dumb down the game? I see a request to be nicer to other, newer players. That is in no way, shape, or form, dumbing down the game. It's asking for less jerkish behavior from more experienced players, or maybe even being helpful. How is sharing knowledge "dumbing down"? Teaching others makes them smarter, not dumbing them down...c'mon, now..

The problem is mainly due to the fact that vet players share the same content than beginners. Asking generally to be nice... well the game is played by all sorts of people and a rather pointless request, don't you agree?

Ydrisselle wrote: »

I don't know any MMO where there are enough veteran skilled HC players to justify making extreme hard content just for them (not even in WoW). The majority always are casual or simply not joining the min-maxer club - and since there are way more of them, it's generally a better idea to make content mainly for them.

WoW is just a perfect example. The starter zones are for low level and higher-level content is elsewhere.

First, it's never pointless to ask to be nice. I know how unrealistic it is to ask a a**hole to be nice. That is a lost cause. But asking a reasonable person to think before snapping at a new player who makes a mistake? Not pointless at all.

As far as WOW goes, they are going the way of ESO and adding level scaling, so not so perfect of an example, I guess...

https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/3/16604356/world-of-warcraft-level-scaling

Ep1kMalware

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

What the hell are you talking about? First of all, it's usually noobs that bash on other noobs, at least that I have seen. Second of all, if anyone is going to get anywhere in this game then step 1 is asking help, and I've yet to ever see any of my guildmates ever lash out on noobs asking for help.

And I've been in endgame guilds before imperial city xD

I have seen noobs ask for help, dislike the answer because it was notnwhat they wanted to hear, and caused back and forth arguments

hamgatan

SquareSausage wrote: »

There are too many Noobs spoiling group finder.
If Noobs aren't told to use food, get better DPS or L2P they will continue to be Noobs spoiling not only their own enjoyment in grp stuff but others too.

Getting kicked from grp and/or bashed is the rights of passage ceremonies all Noobs must endure.

And you are exactly what OP is alluding to.

Told? Perhaps asking is a better approach. No one likes to be 'told'.

No wonder he/she feels like crap.

People learn from a variety of ways based on their cognitive approach, visual, auditory, kinaesthetic.. telling people 'omg n00b l2p' is counter productive and doesn't address the problem which can probably be solved by asking 'hey dude r u OK? Are you stuck with anything?'

Depending on their learning alignment they may not get something that's explained in text chat, but visually if you show them they may get it. It never hurts to ask the question.

I remember one time I tanked a final boss and used, no joke, over 100 soul gems reviving the group finder team. The game is no fun if it's always a cakewalk, take being grouped with new players as a challenge. Challenge yourself. Its how you develop and better yourself if you have to work harder.

And rite of passage? Give me a break. You need to develop some patience.

Ocean_Charlie9

Since the beta I recieved a lot of help from guilds and random people. I even started to craft gear for new people if they really need it and I like to teach and learn.
Of course bad things happend too. I love my templar khajiit and I know that maybe is not the perfect race but I love it. I started recently playing as a healer and I like it but in the past I recieved a lot of "destructive" criticism because I was a Templar khajiit using mag for dps. That totally bothers me because I wanted to play good but having fun at the same time. Lucky me I meet with a lot of people who give me advices to follow and remember.
I do not aim for the leaderboard I only want to be usefull and have fun


and sell skooma...

Wait, no...

8)

Kel

hamgatan wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

There are too many Noobs spoiling group finder.
If Noobs aren't told to use food, get better DPS or L2P they will continue to be Noobs spoiling not only their own enjoyment in grp stuff but others too.

Getting kicked from grp and/or bashed is the rights of passage ceremonies all Noobs must endure.

And you are exactly what OP is alluding to.

Told? Perhaps asking is a better approach. No one likes to be 'told'.

No wonder he/she feels like crap.

People learn from a variety of ways based on their cognitive approach, visual, auditory, kinaesthetic.. telling people 'omg n00b l2p' is counter productive and doesn't address the problem which can probably be solved by asking 'hey dude r u OK? Are you stuck with anything?'

Depending on their learning alignment they may not get something that's explained in text chat, but visually if you show them they may get it. It never hurts to ask the question.

I remember one time I tanked a final boss and used, no joke, over 100 soul gems reviving the group finder team. The game is no fun if it's always a cakewalk, take being grouped with new players as a challenge. Challenge yourself. Its how you develop and better yourself if you have to work harder.

And rite of passage? Give me a break. You need to develop some patience.

This is my main disconnect with players in this game and on the forum.
Everyone complains how easy everything is, yet complain when a little bit of difficulty comes into thier online lives. Even if that difficulty comes from other players. It's remarkable, in the worst way.
Challenge is where you find it..it's not preplanned.

Kayira

I have nothing against noobs and I am happy to help them in new dungeons, but slowly I am getting annoyed with quite a lot of them.

For examples I was running a random normal dungeon with a PUG and of course it had to be Mazzatun, so we are getting to the boss with the poison swamps that you have to cleanse. I asked my group 3 times before if anyone is doing it the first time and needs the mechanics explained. Three times no one says anything.

So we get to this boss and we wipe repeatedly. I repeat:"Do you need the mechanics explained, is it your first time?". Finally someone comes forward and says he has no clue, so I explain the boss and finally we kill him.
Next we get to the end boss. I know now that I have new players, and want to explain the mechanics, but god forbid... All 3 of them charge at the boss before I can even write 1 sentence. So in the end I soloed the boss because 3 players couldn't have waited for 1min for me to explain the boss.

More or less the same thing happened a few days later in cradle of shadows end boss, where no one said that they were new and thought they had to kill all adds when ported out by the boss and then exploded during the shadow hunt.
It took them 4 death to chill for a minute for me to explain the mechanics.

There is nothing wrong with being new, but please listen to the older players for tipps and mechanics. When you are queued as a DD and you come into the dungeon with Sword and Shield or a frost staff, please listen and swap weapon when someone tells you that you are taunting the entire time, there usually is a reason why someone is commenting on your weapon of choice. The mobs aren't by chance constantly on you when you are using the your first skill in sword and shield skill line.

Oh, and new players never run vet dungeons with randoms, find a nice guild and get everything explained and make sure you do the required DPS and all will be good, but PUG vet dungeons is and always has been a bad decision and usually ends in constant death and annoyance.

Sparr0w

As a fairly new player myself the overall experience has been a good one (not used group finder as it's crap in other games so expect no different from an MMO).

99% of players tend to be really helpful, giving tips, crafting items & explaining mechanics. Currently around lv25 (played on first release, recently came back and started a fresh) & completed a few trials and dungeons with either players from guilds or random groups outside.

The last trial was AA (I think?) and the experienced players hung back before each major fight to explain what was going to happen, what to look out for as well as actively commenting during the fights which was really helpful & provided food and soul gems to lower level players, with 3 others around my level we completed it with only 2 deaths.

Afterwards they even gave build tips to those who wanted them based on what they saw don't know how you can run a trial and keep tabs on everyone else but hey.

The only thing I can say is there's no real 'navigation' when you're starting as to what you need to do. Granted there's the hints you get but all in all the only way to grasp what you should be doing is either from other players or endless trial and error, especially if you're new to MMO's or even RPG's as a whole which will leave people feeling lost.

I do see high level players hanging around the 'beginner' areas, probably with the primary objective of farming, but they also help out newbies should they be stuck for what to do which is really nice to see. Would be a thought to have a choice of standardised guilds for new players who want to learn the ropes from experienced players as I know personally that there are players who enjoy teaching people (who are willing to be tought) the ropes.

Also a thought to have 'training' dungeons or trials where newer players could enter to learn the mechanics of how these work, while not consuming endless soul gems or destroying all of their armour (like I did the other day XD), this way the harder content doesn't have to be made easier & there will be less frustration towards first time players as they would already have a little practice & know what to expect.

Just my 2 cents anyway, obviously no matter how much help you give some people they will still be a lost cause, but it's certianly (in my opinion) a step in the right direction

Kolzki

klowdy1 wrote: »

wsmith97ub17_ESO wrote: »

I see mostly people being helpful, except in vet dungeons.

This right here. People get help in OW and normal dungeons, but if you queue for a vet dungeon, you need to have a pretty good idea of what to do. Everyone should be able to have fun, even people that CAN do what is needed in vet dungeons. When someone joins a vet at CP15, spamming light attacks, that kills other people's fun time. There isn't enough advice to help that person get through a vet. I love to help people out, but I don't want to carry people with no clue, and no urge to get better.

What you’re describing is a player who is having their first experience of difficult content in the game. It takes literally minutes to hit CP15 from level 50 - they won’t have ever seen a vet dungeon before.

If it’s something easy like fungal one then at least let them have a shot at it. Let their first impression be getting wrecked by the dungeon rather than getting kicked on sight. At least that way they’re learning something.

Of course if it’s a vet dlc dungeon then they aren’t going to make it passed the first pull anyway. Sometimes the best advice is to let them learn the hard way.

Marginis

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

In-game and possibly on the forums I don't keep too much of an eye on things around here but it's pretty bad in game. Example; a normal dungeon. Someone was forced to leave the dungeon because they didn't have food. This person was getting crapped on in the chat and when I said guys relax it's alright don't stress about it they were attacking me as well.

That person left the dungeon and messaged me saying he's never going to do a dungeon again if that's the way people are.

Man that’s bad.
My opinion was/is PC has more of an elitist feel due to types words vs spoken. I moved to console and it was much better until text chat was added....

Sigh.....I support your cause

I've found quite the opposite. So long as you're on PC too, PC players tend to be a bit more kind, from what I've seen. Perhaps it's a lot of them being from the gentle early days of ESO and they've somewhat kept that positive attitude. Console on the other hand gets people who buy consoles because they don't have money or time to build a PC, so they bring in stress from their lives where they don't have time/money. Console brings in dumb arrogant kids whose parents bought them a console. Console brings in Call of Duty players, FFS.

I mean, I've met good and bad people on both, but if you were to compare the two...

@Marginis
I should clarify console means Xbox One in my comment. Some would say what you just wrote is the example of being elitist that the OP is talking about.

No idea why anyone would assume PC means someone is better off financially. Also no idea why anyone would decide that one system has more kids than another.

In my home I own two consoles, one for me and one for my kids.
Two PCs, one for me and one for my kids.

Two gaming rooms, one for me and one for my kids.

I play 98% on console tho.....
People are people, elitist are elitist, regardless of platform. Voice communication offers tone, influx, expression and words where text is limited. That was the factual point i was conveying

I should clarify. I'm just speaking of my personal experience only - I've played on both PC and console, and currently am only playing ESO on xbox. As far as PC vs xbox financially, I only mean to say that certain generalizations that can be made, if only as a general sense, like how PC culture cultivates a lot who really invest in their rig with time and upgrades and personalization, which generally costs (or seems to cost, even though it usually doesn't) more, whereas console users tend to not (or seem not) get that as much. Even if the generalizations don't hold true, perception of the generalizations can inform the communities.

And I can agree with the voice chat bit, I'm just not sure that people being jerks is due to misunderstanding or miscommunication in cases like the OP's. But yeah, there are bad eggs all over. Console, PC, ESO, irl. Just seems to be more in ESO now than historically. Could just be perception though.

So, sorry, didn't mean to sound elitist, or say one platform is better than another. Not my intention at all.

You know that’s being elitist right?

What specifically is making me elitist?

Your belief in those generalizations

I don't believe that those generalizations necessarily hold true. I said they could hold true, not that they do. Did you read what I said?

yes I read all your comments a few times.
Remember, it’s just text on a page and if you believe something a little, a lot, etc. it’s your belief.

Perception is reality so that’s why in my earlier comment it reads that voice is better than text

My point was that perception informs reality, though doesn't always follow it. That is to say, while it's not the really the case that PC and console players are that different (although some can be), stereotypes reinforcing the divide exist, and affect the community. For example, you automatically assumed I was a PC elitist when I suggested I've encountered less toxicity on PC than on xbox. That affects then how you chose to engage with me. Not sure if that's what you meant by "perception is reality" but I hope that in the very least you can understand that I am not elitist - I am a Khajiit of the people - and I was only trying to find a way to explain trends - not to express elitism.

@Marginis

I didn’t assume anything, I simply read what you wrote.

No reaction to the later comments, just tried to point out within your comment, the way you placed your words conveys that you have a belief that PC players are likely better than console. And with that, there are more kids on console than PC ....further you go on to suggest as a result of those two unfounded beliefs you have, you believe it’s more likely that console players are much more likely to be rude or an elitist compared to PC players.

Even after sharing my personal example, you’ve continued to support your beliefs. So in essence it’s kinda humorous to me but sad in terms of the topic.....especially considering at one time the first perfect and highest score for a stamina NB in vMSA was on console (Xbox One).....and there are plenty of other examples that unless we know them personally or have played with them in the past, those types of beliefs you convey come off as elitist.


So an elitist comment is usually defined as something like: (of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society: elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else. ... a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.

Please stop trying to tell me what I believe. Frankly, you don't know what my beliefs are, and I find it insulting how you try to label me as something I'm not.

On top of that, nothing constructive comes of what you're saying. Labelling people as elitist does not serve to make them any less elitist. If you want to continue insulting me, go ahead, but know that it makes you just as bad as those idiot pugs the OP dealt with.

Reminds me of some gay guys who called me homophobic because I made them wait in line like I did everyone else at my old job. That surprised me. Surprised my gay boyfriend too.

LeagueTroll

I started at thieves guild patch, and i tell everyone to eat food, if they refuse, i will try convince others to kick, i succeed about 3/4 the times

Ch4mpTW

LeagueTroll wrote: »

I started at thieves guild patch, and i tell everyone to eat food, if they refuse, i will try convince others to kick, i succeed about 3/4 the times

Why would anyone refuse to use a consumable, that in turn would assist in their success (be it in PvE or PvP)? No offense, but that is a very questionable post. Lol.

Abysswarrior45

jabrone77 wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

No. Dumbing the game down for noobs is a terrible idea and something thats ruining the game already. Either try to get better at the game or fail at whatever it is you're mad about. The most balanced game is one where those with an understanding are successful and noobs die over and over again.

It sounds harsh but its true. The main bulk of the game, namely the overland content, delves and group delves is in a very easy state already. Most of the group dungeons require no or just a decent amount of coordination. I really wish the remaining content will be dedicated to veteran players only, so that we clearly have seperately beginner friendly dungeons and dungeons which are challenging for experienced players.

It is really not necessary that end-level players and newbies share the same new content.

Who's asking to dumb down the game? I see a request to be nicer to other, newer players. That is in no way, shape, or form, dumbing down the game. It's asking for less jerkish behavior from more experienced players, or maybe even being helpful. How is sharing knowledge "dumbing down"? Teaching others makes them smarter, not dumbing them down...c'mon, now..

"Could we please be a bit more noob friendly?"

Getern

[Snip]. This game in current state is shadow of difficulty it used to offer. You overland content is a joke in terms of difficulty. You can easly obtain BS gear from dungeons, zones or merchants in matter of minutes/hours. Even looted trait doesnt matter no more. Gold is worthless and easly obtainable by just playing. I dont believe there are set parts worth more than 100k. Even new Asylum weapons are easy to get. At least vMA is casual resistant but I am having a bad feeling that it will change soon at some point and that scares me. Feeling low on CP? Entire 5 days of playing is all u need for max CP, 4 hours is all u need to reach 50 on new alt.

And u dare to say that game is not noob friendly.

[Edited to remove flaming]

NewBlacksmurf

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

In-game and possibly on the forums I don't keep too much of an eye on things around here but it's pretty bad in game. Example; a normal dungeon. Someone was forced to leave the dungeon because they didn't have food. This person was getting crapped on in the chat and when I said guys relax it's alright don't stress about it they were attacking me as well.

That person left the dungeon and messaged me saying he's never going to do a dungeon again if that's the way people are.

Man that’s bad.
My opinion was/is PC has more of an elitist feel due to types words vs spoken. I moved to console and it was much better until text chat was added....

Sigh.....I support your cause

I've found quite the opposite. So long as you're on PC too, PC players tend to be a bit more kind, from what I've seen. Perhaps it's a lot of them being from the gentle early days of ESO and they've somewhat kept that positive attitude. Console on the other hand gets people who buy consoles because they don't have money or time to build a PC, so they bring in stress from their lives where they don't have time/money. Console brings in dumb arrogant kids whose parents bought them a console. Console brings in Call of Duty players, FFS.

I mean, I've met good and bad people on both, but if you were to compare the two...

@Marginis
I should clarify console means Xbox One in my comment. Some would say what you just wrote is the example of being elitist that the OP is talking about.

No idea why anyone would assume PC means someone is better off financially. Also no idea why anyone would decide that one system has more kids than another.

In my home I own two consoles, one for me and one for my kids.
Two PCs, one for me and one for my kids.

Two gaming rooms, one for me and one for my kids.

I play 98% on console tho.....
People are people, elitist are elitist, regardless of platform. Voice communication offers tone, influx, expression and words where text is limited. That was the factual point i was conveying

I should clarify. I'm just speaking of my personal experience only - I've played on both PC and console, and currently am only playing ESO on xbox. As far as PC vs xbox financially, I only mean to say that certain generalizations that can be made, if only as a general sense, like how PC culture cultivates a lot who really invest in their rig with time and upgrades and personalization, which generally costs (or seems to cost, even though it usually doesn't) more, whereas console users tend to not (or seem not) get that as much. Even if the generalizations don't hold true, perception of the generalizations can inform the communities.

And I can agree with the voice chat bit, I'm just not sure that people being jerks is due to misunderstanding or miscommunication in cases like the OP's. But yeah, there are bad eggs all over. Console, PC, ESO, irl. Just seems to be more in ESO now than historically. Could just be perception though.

So, sorry, didn't mean to sound elitist, or say one platform is better than another. Not my intention at all.

You know that’s being elitist right?

What specifically is making me elitist?

Your belief in those generalizations

I don't believe that those generalizations necessarily hold true. I said they could hold true, not that they do. Did you read what I said?

yes I read all your comments a few times.
Remember, it’s just text on a page and if you believe something a little, a lot, etc. it’s your belief.

Perception is reality so that’s why in my earlier comment it reads that voice is better than text

My point was that perception informs reality, though doesn't always follow it. That is to say, while it's not the really the case that PC and console players are that different (although some can be), stereotypes reinforcing the divide exist, and affect the community. For example, you automatically assumed I was a PC elitist when I suggested I've encountered less toxicity on PC than on xbox. That affects then how you chose to engage with me. Not sure if that's what you meant by "perception is reality" but I hope that in the very least you can understand that I am not elitist - I am a Khajiit of the people - and I was only trying to find a way to explain trends - not to express elitism.

@Marginis

I didn’t assume anything, I simply read what you wrote.

No reaction to the later comments, just tried to point out within your comment, the way you placed your words conveys that you have a belief that PC players are likely better than console. And with that, there are more kids on console than PC ....further you go on to suggest as a result of those two unfounded beliefs you have, you believe it’s more likely that console players are much more likely to be rude or an elitist compared to PC players.

Even after sharing my personal example, you’ve continued to support your beliefs. So in essence it’s kinda humorous to me but sad in terms of the topic.....especially considering at one time the first perfect and highest score for a stamina NB in vMSA was on console (Xbox One).....and there are plenty of other examples that unless we know them personally or have played with them in the past, those types of beliefs you convey come off as elitist.


So an elitist comment is usually defined as something like: (of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society: elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else. ... a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.

Please stop trying to tell me what I believe. Frankly, you don't know what my beliefs are, and I find it insulting how you try to label me as something I'm not.

On top of that, nothing constructive comes of what you're saying. Labelling people as elitist does not serve to make them any less elitist. If you want to continue insulting me, go ahead, but know that it makes you just as bad as those idiot pugs the OP dealt with.

Reminds me of some gay guys who called me homophobic because I made them wait in line like I did everyone else at my old job. That surprised me. Surprised my gay boyfriend too.

@Marginis

No one is trying to tell you what you believe. I’m sharing what you wrote and conveying how I perceived it.

No one is labeling you, I’m only referring to your comments. I wrote your comments...i didn’t write you.

That’s it....translation is often lost in typed words. Your comments tho....aye....just reread them. Also why bring up sexual orientation ??

LordSemaj

hamgatan wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

New players shouldn't be expecting to be treated like the 700+ club.

Careful. This is dangerous terminology to use as it can easily be construed as CP Elitism..

The assumption that someone with 1000CP is good is in itself a lie. Its no longer a measure of skill but one of the size of ones electronic gentleman's sausage.

And yet when my post is read, it's clearly being used to denote players of long account age, not of higher skill. The ones that did the wiping on raids, did the gear grind, learned the mechanics the hard way, spent a fortune struggling to get where they are now.

This is precisely the problem. People assume elitism everywhere and then newbies blame the long time players for not getting the gear for them.

hamgatan wrote: »

Therefore making the assumption that a high CP player is somewhat better is toxic in itself and propagating that culture is poisonous.

As long as we have people making ^ these sorts of assumptions about people, toxicity will always exist because it's perpetuated by the community. Nothing I said pertained to this and I'm just about sick and tired of hearing it. Since I can't look a man in the eyes and know his demeanor, he has to prove himself to be worth my time rather than coming with the self-entitled expectation that I am obligated to devote mine to farming gear sets for him. I actually miss true levels because level 20s would group with other level 20s, not expect the level 50 in full epic gear to carry them.


Additionally, I'm in the same boat as you. I played during the vet levels and my account would have significantly more CP had any of that time counted. I'm not salty about it and I'm not mad at people who might judge me for not having over 1000. Systems aren't perfect and people always fall through the cracks. Yet it's a self-created system brought on by experience to be wary about instant gratification gamers who want things immediately with none of the work put in. Those are already the type of people in games and in life that you don't want to create long ties with because they don't know what it is to struggle and are liable to abandon you the second things get rough. I've had people want to jump into vet trials without even gold weapons. Like sure it's doable, but could you maybe put even a smidgen of effort in first? "Oh but I'm just going to replace it with VO stuff." ... I'm not willing to help people who refuse to help the team.

NewBlacksmurf

LordSemaj wrote: »

hamgatan wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

New players shouldn't be expecting to be treated like the 700+ club.

Careful. This is dangerous terminology to use as it can easily be construed as CP Elitism..

The assumption that someone with 1000CP is good is in itself a lie. Its no longer a measure of skill but one of the size of ones electronic gentleman's sausage.

And yet when my post is read, it's clearly being used to denote players of long account age, not of higher skill. The ones that did the wiping on raids, did the gear grind, learned the mechanics the hard way, spent a fortune struggling to get where they are now.

This is precisely the problem. People assume elitism everywhere and then newbies blame the long time players for not getting the gear for them.

hamgatan wrote: »

Therefore making the assumption that a high CP player is somewhat better is toxic in itself and propagating that culture is poisonous.

As long as we have people making ^ these sorts of assumptions about people, toxicity will always exist because it's perpetuated by the community. Nothing I said pertained to this and I'm just about sick and tired of hearing it. Since I can't look a man in the eyes and know his demeanor, he has to prove himself to be worth my time rather than coming with the self-entitled expectation that I am obligated to devote mine to farming gear sets for him.


Additionally, I'm in the same boat as you. I played during the vet levels and my account would have significantly more CP had any of that time counted. I'm not salty about it and I'm not mad at people who might judge me for not having over 1000. Systems aren't perfect and people always fall through the cracks. Yet it's a self-created system brought on by experience to be wary about instant gratification gamers who want things immediately with none of the work put in. Those are already the type of people in games and in life that you don't want to create long ties with because they don't know what it is to struggle and are liable to abandon you the second things get rough. I've had people want to jump into vet trials without even gold weapons. Like sure it's doable, but could you maybe put even a smidgen of effort in first? "Oh but I'm just going to replace it with VO stuff." ... I'm not willing to help people who refuse to help the team.

@LordSemaj

But hopefully, you do realize the topic exists because that’s what is occurring, right?

Meaning CP is not being interpreted as account age
1. Because that’s false information
2. Because CP level doesn’t measure account age

Meaning that actually CP is being used as a means to determine who does and does not qualify
1. And that in itself is a form of elitism
2. Everyone actually doesn’t know and doesn’t believe CP means good, bad, experienced, noob

Also, it’s not correct to assign those assumptions generally speaking because
1. You don’t know for sure
2. That’s not what CP means or how it works

That’s the actual point of the discussion.

iiYuki

Christ, if you dont think this game is noob friendly already I would hate to play the version of the game you think is.

LordSemaj

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Meaning CP is not being interpreted as account age
1. Because that’s false information
2. Because CP level doesn’t measure account age

It is by me and others I team with, because it's the best available measure, and I'd appreciate you not saying it isn't. Because that's false information and perpetuating this myth is what creates the hostility. New players don't have any knowledge of this hostility innately, they learn it from people spreading this garbage.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Meaning that actually CP is being used as a means to determine who does and does not qualify
1. And that in itself is a form of elitism
2. Everyone actually doesn’t know and doesn’t believe CP means good, bad, experienced, noob

Maybe by others, but I see it routinely attributed to me erroneously. You're arguing against generalization and lumping people into categories based on arbitrary information yet have no qualms doing precisely that yourself.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, it’s not correct to assign those assumptions generally speaking because
1. You don’t know for sure
2. That’s not what CP means or how it works

CP means the account has gained X amount of experience points after the conversion was made. It's just about the closest measure to /played time as one can get that isn't character specific. I know for sure that the XP was gained and that is precisely how it works. As said before, exceptions exist to every system and I'm sure some people farmed their way to max. Systems have flaws but they're only guidelines and not the hard and fast. As said before, it's up to others to prove themselves. You don't apply for a job as a newbie and expect to be taken seriously. Not unless you come with a padded resume of accolades and approvals, and even then you're the new fish. Yet as mentioned, new players, due to THREADS LIKE THIS, have been coming in with saintly expectations that are beyond unrealistic and demanding.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

That’s the actual point of the discussion.

The discussion can stay in the discussion while my post can stay as my post and be addressed as an individual the same way you want others to be. The discussion is not pertaining to what you decide the discussion is pertaining to. The original post and topic title are self-explanatory and addressed accordingly. You're only pushing your own agenda as the "point of the discussion" and attempting to divide the player base into one of two categories, the with-us or against-us.

Katahdin

I keep the food that adjusts to character level in my bank in case something like this happens. I give some to the player so we all have a better chance of completing the dungeon


The only time I really lost my cool in a dungeon was in Vet COS at Valanus.
I was tanking and one DPS refused to rez people. I tried but if I did, the boss one shot me or someone else cause I wasnt blocking or lost aggro. The poor healer kept trying to rez if it was the other DPS down. Sometimes it worked, other times not, but we kept wiping at that boss. I kept telling them that the tank and healer should not be rezing and he HAD to rez. I asked him did he have soul gems, did he understand what I saying?. He finally said he would "try" but I dont think I saw him do it once. He finally left and we got a new DPS and got it done



The other time was the healer kept running ahead of the tank and nearly wiping the group