Could we please be a bit more noob (new player) friendly?

TheCyberDruid · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

That really doesn’t address the issues the OP brings up

I wasn't talking about what the OP wrote. It's far too unspecific to deserve an answer IMO. I was talking about the dungeon/trial problem brought up later in the thread.

In general I try to help new players when I can, but there's a good amount of advice resistance out there that keeps me from holding hands/spoon feeding for more than two or three lines. Might come across as rude, but I just don't care enough if people can't read or ask properly. Has nothing to do with ESO specifically.

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

From the pov of 'evil toxic elitest scum', my only expectations of what I consider a decent group is if the magsorc -err,.. "tank", could keep the boss in position. After 4 years I just wait for the 'tsnk' to die, then I'll tank it myself and be done with it. Or go use the bathroom real quick.

TazESO · February 2018

KerryG wrote: »

Hi, I'm new to the game and I want to respond to this thread. I'm basing my response on my recent experiences.

First, I'm new. Very, very new. I think I've had Elder Scrolls Online for maybe eight weeks? I just returned from studying abroad for two years and I bought it. I don't know if it's relevant but I have a sub. Yes, I've been to the forums and I find a lot of the guides useful. If you made one, thanks!

I have one character, a Nord nightblade. I've played long enough to have a guy tell me on Discord that "you're doing it wrong." Yeah, I play a Nord, I play a nightblade. Sorry. No, I don't think I'm going to change. Since people ask me when I ask questions: this is the second MMO I've ever played and, no, the other was not WoW.

I want to comment for two reasons. Reason 1 is because there's a lot of hating in this thread. Meanwhile, I had a great experience running a dungeon the other day. It was my first dungeon and it was Fungal Grotto, the normal version. I know it's probably easy for some experienced players but it was my first dungeon. I queued up as DPS and then waited 45+ minutes to get a dungeon. Finally, some very nice person (I wish I'd caught their name), grouped with me so I could get in.

We ran the dungeon with four people and had no problem.The entire group was nice and fun to play with. They stopped, explained things and when we were done, they gave me a lot of really good advice. We probably spent an hour in that dungeon. And I get what some people are saying: these players probably didn't want to spend an hour of their life that night telling me how to play dungeons. But because they did, my attitude about dungeons really changed. They made the experience fun and enjoyable - so much so that I ended up running another dungeon with them that night. And I ended up with a couple of new friends.

The next night wasn't so great. I logged in and one of those two asked me if I wanted to run another dungeon. It was Cave of Ash 1. We got in and the other two players (we were using the group finder), immediately ran ahead. In fact, they jumped off a path that winds around to drop to the floor below and left me behind. They moved so fast I couldn't even pick up the quest. They killed the bosses and finished and blew out of there. And I'm trying to use the group chat to tell them I've never run this dungeon before. Meanwhile, I was left to feel stupid, annoyed, and as if I shouldn't be doing this while they ran a dungeon in ten minutes.

Afterwards, my friend tried to help me by offering to run the dungeon with me so I could do the quest but by then we were having the invisible group member bug and for some reason I lagged out and had to quit the game for awhile.

I know people farm dungeons for gear and experience, but right now I'm just want to play the game. I want to do the quests and listen to the NPCs and read the books. Running a dungeon in ten minutes is not fun for me.

Thanks for the reality check, the real voice of the newbie.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

It’s pretty bad with the amount of toxicity beginning to breed in this game. It’s still nowhere near as bad as WoW in its prime, but still. It’s pretty awful. Actually. No. I take that back. It’s worse than WoW, as back then there really wasn’t too much acceptance for being a scumbag to folks. The hostility always had a base of some sorts, and would begin upon error of some sort. Nowadays, it’s just full-blown snapping without a reason.

It also doesn’t help that a few of those “elite” players behave like total d-bags on both these forums and in-game, often making a less-welcoming atmosphere for the upcoming player. All the while subtly teaching them that once you reach a certain level of “skill”, that is how you are supposed to behave. Which of course is definitely wrong. And definitely far from the truth.

But what I’m most curious about, is when all the toxicity and elitism started in this game. Because it for damn sure didn’t always be this way. Nor was it tolerated by neither the PvE or PvP communities. Now it has become somewhat normal, and something to just brush off. When in fact it is something that should be called out, and if done on this forum should be punishable. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people from the top raiding guilds belittle people on these forums, and get a pass for it due to their guild housing a “popular” or “well-respected” YouTuber or Twitch streamer. Or because they maybe have written this and that guide. When those things mean nothing, if the writer’s behavior is totally disrespectful and rude.

My suggestion...? Regardless of how “pro” a member of your guild is, if you catch them behaving like a tool on these forums or in-game? Kick them. Why? Because they’re giving a bad reputation for your guild, AND you’re housing a toxic player. I bet all those “git gud” sayers and people who like to make players feel insignificant would cut that bs out real quick, as their source of credibility and fame would be at risk. And then on ZOS’ end, start cracking down hard on the elitists and toxic players. Don’t mention guilds that have these players when talking about congratulating a guild for the so-called “world’s first”, if that’s guild has been known to be disrespectful and rude on the forums or in-game. That’d definitely start making a lot of people second-guess coming out of the side of their neck to players. Because again, their “clout” is at risk. And we all know how much these players love their e-fame and notoriety.

The toxicity was allways there.

For some reason, those who shout 'git gud' and practice the most, are the most toxic. It's why the term tryhard exists.

Quite frankly ,this solution is a good one. I dont care how good his DPS is. Make him a social exile if he cant behave like a decent human being.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, no the discussion isn’t what you decide it pertains to.

Right back at you. This is what the discussion pertains to, nothing more.

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

@LordSemaj

Exactly and that’s exactly what I’m commenting on. Elitism and within your comment, you’re telling us that the way you “measure” people is the method “you’re using” and why it’s “right”

To clarify, the OP that you quoted.....is using the term “elitism”. Some would say it means this:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience — are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

What you’re doing is just that and that’s the discussion. I’m not making generalization, it’s actually what you wrote

No, what you're doing is precisely what my original post was brought in to denounce. People assuming elitism everywhere and attributing it incorrectly for their own selfish purposes. My post only describes how new players should not come in with an over-inflated sense of entitlement and expect instant gratification access to the best gear and hardest content on the backs of those who have been here longer and struggled to reach where they were. You're the one who turned it into a judgement contest, which I even pointed out was PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. People do precisely what you're doing, they get triggered by innocuous concepts such as someone expecting you to have gold weapons before doing a vet trial because that actually helps the REST OF THE TEAM. Then they cry out "elitism" when they get kicked because the team didn't want to help someone who REFUSES TO HELP THE TEAM.

Your concept of elitism and your application of it are crossed and messed up. In the world you envision, brand new level 50 CP 160s with blue gear would be getting invited to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj so that we can all farm their Moondancer for them.

So instead of consider that your actions have an impact, your interpretation is that it’s not you it’s others

It’s not my concept, it’s the accepted definition of the term.....

He isn't missing the point, he's spot on with the point.

Quite frankly? This isn't souly related to ESO. I've seen this happen time and again on other games. Offer a suggestion, call for help, get a frankly hostile response, and then promptly watch them cry elitist after they get kicked.

He's right. Your being needlessly authoritarian as far as what criteria counts as elitism, when elitism wasn't really the point. It was -not being a horrible person-. It was not refusing to communicate, and giving noobs the time of day instead of screeching at them, and you seem to be intent on doing just that.

But quite frankly, I predicted this reaction so far in the past you may as well call me nostradamus.

Bevik · February 2018

Lysette wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.

Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Are you joking, right?

Those roleplaying people are the ones who are just taking a good spot from a good player to get drops, achievements whatever because as you said they can't fullfill any role.
And sorry but yes, if you can't perform a role, get in a roleplaying guild or just don't use group finder. I'm patient really but expecting anyone else to carry you it's just utterly wrong. Has nothing to do with elitists if I prefer players who can perform a role properly, makes everyone's life easier.

Yeah that is what I am doing - I do not take part in this kind of gameplay, because people would just hate me there - and i see this as elitist - if they would really be elite, it would not matter for them to have to carry me through, because they woudl be good enough to do it anyway. So how much of a real elite player are they?- not that much of a real elite in my books, just their attitute is elitist.

You basically call everyone elitist who completed dungeons countless time because they like them. I love dungeons to be honest. I carried many players through dungeons, for example I carried 2x level 15ish and 1x 30ish player through WGT because I asked them that they know the mechanics or not, they said no, so I told them we are going to stop before every boss and I am going to explain to them. Worked. I think we wiped once or none at all. If I'm on my DD I can carry anyone. If I'm on my tank I expect to DDs to perform and the healer to keep me alive. If I'm on my healer I wouldn't care that much as I can DPS a bit also.

But you should also take some things into consideration. I used to play a lot, so I didn't care about if a dungeon is 15 mins or 45 mins. But now I have a 2 months old baby. I just don't have a luxury to take my time in the dungeons. Some are so easy you can just run through every boss, some of them are long, because they are designed to be long. If it possible to make them in 30 mins I don't want to spend there 1.5 hours because a) I've done them hundreds of time, b) I don't have much time. If I have time probably I don't care teaching everyone, explaining everything. But as I said I mostly explain everything if people are lacking the experience. But I ask, if no answer then I give it a try and if it's a disaster they leave or I leave. Noone likes to waste time. I've seen many new players who just said I'm not strong enough yet to do this and thanked the group and left us so we could get a replacement. It is very 2 sided, I ask everyone before bosses or when we start the dungeon. If noone asks anything it could be a disaster run, a waste of time, especially in a DLC dungeons.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

That really doesn’t address the issues the OP brings up

I wasn't talking about what the OP wrote. It's far too unspecific to deserve an answer IMO. I was talking about the dungeon/trial problem brought up later in the thread.

In general I try to help new players when I can, but there's a good amount of advice resistance out there that keeps me from holding hands/spoon feeding for more than two or three lines. Might come across as rude, but I just don't care enough if people can't read or ask properly. Has nothing to do with ESO specifically.

Ok

Advice resistance....I’ve fallen into this situation but it was pointed out to me that they were not seeking my advice. What often happens is player 1 seeks to advise player 2 because player 1 feels they can help or change player 2’s action and decisions. Problem starts because player 1 feels their info is what needs to happen and lacks a solid basis that universally “right”.

It can come of rude and it often does.

I just finished running a dungeon on my low level warden. It was a pre formed group of three and i was added via the activity finder (as a healer)

It’s normal so no big issues, however, the conversation seemed to be that i ended up in the middle of. One suggests i can’t help them cause I’m a low level. Ok, so I assume it’s about gear....cool.

Then another says, well we’ve all been low level so we’ll just carry them.....hey guy just keep up.
Ok, wow so we play on but their focus was to run this same dungeon over and over for set pieces (context i gathered from their text chat)

Now I’ve been around so I just decided all the comments were directed towards gear.

Thing is, if I’m new, how does that context happen? It doesn’t

So I use that example to illustrate one persons attempt to give advice may not be another persons interpretation. And while people can take the position that it’s not their fault their intent was taken out of context.....depending on how things occur it can be rude or off putting.

So here’s what I’m seeing. ZOS has this idea that everyone should be able to play with everyone else. Well that sounds good but due to a lack of clear ingame information that gives clear direction, people will take it upon themselves to decide who and what is right or wrong. To decide when someone needs to change and when some needs advice.

Then if it’s not openly accepted, we get to a place where people may say....the new person needs to change or the person not doing what the other feels it’s right needs to change.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, no the discussion isn’t what you decide it pertains to.

Right back at you. This is what the discussion pertains to, nothing more.

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

@LordSemaj

Exactly and that’s exactly what I’m commenting on. Elitism and within your comment, you’re telling us that the way you “measure” people is the method “you’re using” and why it’s “right”

To clarify, the OP that you quoted.....is using the term “elitism”. Some would say it means this:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience — are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

What you’re doing is just that and that’s the discussion. I’m not making generalization, it’s actually what you wrote

No, what you're doing is precisely what my original post was brought in to denounce. People assuming elitism everywhere and attributing it incorrectly for their own selfish purposes. My post only describes how new players should not come in with an over-inflated sense of entitlement and expect instant gratification access to the best gear and hardest content on the backs of those who have been here longer and struggled to reach where they were. You're the one who turned it into a judgement contest, which I even pointed out was PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. People do precisely what you're doing, they get triggered by innocuous concepts such as someone expecting you to have gold weapons before doing a vet trial because that actually helps the REST OF THE TEAM. Then they cry out "elitism" when they get kicked because the team didn't want to help someone who REFUSES TO HELP THE TEAM.

Your concept of elitism and your application of it are crossed and messed up. In the world you envision, brand new level 50 CP 160s with blue gear would be getting invited to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj so that we can all farm their Moondancer for them.

So instead of consider that your actions have an impact, your interpretation is that it’s not you it’s others

It’s not my concept, it’s the accepted definition of the term.....

He isn't missing the point, he's spot on with the point.

Quite frankly? This isn't souly related to ESO. I've seen this happen time and again on other games. Offer a suggestion, call for help, get a frankly hostile response, and then promptly watch them cry elitist after they get kicked.

He's right. Your being needlessly authoritarian as far as what criteria counts as elitism, when elitism wasn't really the point. It was -not being a horrible person-. It was not refusing to communicate, and giving noobs the time of day instead of screeching at them, and you seem to be intent on doing just that.

But quite frankly, I predicted this reaction so far in the past you may as well call me nostradamus.

@Doctordarkspawn
They actually are, please be sure to read the many comments me and that user have had.

Specifically the one where they make questionable comments within a quote directed towards the OP later comments.

Then read the later comment i made about that specific quote.

While everyone is entitled their own opinions and can play and act in many different ways, specifically in this topic, some of their comments are not conducive to other players and that’s specifically what the trail of comments between me and them address that and how it applies to the game itself.

SpiderCultist · February 2018

No.

When I first started playing back in 2014 some people didn't have the patience to teach me anything, I had to figure out all by myself, some of them acted like total je**s, others just complained about everything. Now it is my turn.

It's like the butterfly effect: you mistreat someone, now that person mistreats (almost) everyone.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

SpiderCultist wrote: »

No.

When I first started playing back in 2014 some people didn't have the patience to teach me anything, I had to figure out all by myself, some of them acted like total je**s, others just complained about everything. Now it is my turn.

It's like the butterfly effect: you mistreat someone, now that person mistreats (almost) everyone.

Example of cause and effect I guess.
@SpiderCultist would you say you intentionally treat others how you’ve been treated or would you say on the first interaction, you treat others how you’d like to be treated in the game?

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

SpiderCultist wrote: »

No.

When I first started playing back in 2014 some people didn't have the patience to teach me anything, I had to figure out all by myself, some of them acted like total je**s, others just complained about everything. Now it is my turn.

It's like the butterfly effect: you mistreat someone, now that person mistreats (almost) everyone.

In 2014??? U on console? Nobody taught you anythimg because the game was new and we didn't know *** xD

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

SpiderCultist wrote: »

No.

When I first started playing back in 2014 some people didn't have the patience to teach me anything, I had to figure out all by myself, some of them acted like total je**s, others just complained about everything. Now it is my turn.

It's like the butterfly effect: you mistreat someone, now that person mistreats (almost) everyone.

In 2014??? U on console? Nobody taught you anythimg because the game was new and we didn't know *** xD

They are on PC and console or were like me.

SpiderCultist · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SpiderCultist wrote: »

No.

When I first started playing back in 2014 some people didn't have the patience to teach me anything, I had to figure out all by myself, some of them acted like total je**s, others just complained about everything. Now it is my turn.

It's like the butterfly effect: you mistreat someone, now that person mistreats (almost) everyone.

Example of cause and effect I guess.
@SpiderCultist would you say you intentionally treat others how you’ve been treated or would you say on the first interaction, you treat others how you’d like to be treated in the game?

Most of times I behave like those beta elitists treated me. I'm not here to teach anyone play, most of them don't even pay attention to your instructions to understand the mechanics... so I usually proceed starting a votekick. If it doesn't pass the one is out is me.

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

In 2014??? U on console? Nobody taught you anythimg because the game was new and we didn't know *** xD

Summer 2014, there were already those elitists around and trust me, they were legion. This was my first MMORPG and couldn't cope with so much contempt.

TheCyberDruid · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Advice resistance....I’ve fallen into this situation but it was pointed out to me that they were not seeking my advice. What often happens is player 1 seeks to advise player 2 because player 1 feels they can help or change player 2’s action and decisions. Problem starts because player 1 feels their info is what needs to happen and lacks a solid basis that universally “right”.

When I say 'advice resistance' I mean 'advice resistance'. Somebody asks a question in zone chat. I know the answer and in most cases have confirmed it just recently. I say my piece and am met with an answer saying 'I don't think that's how it works'. That's it for me then. I was a moderator on a forum for long enough to know that in 8 out of 10 cases it's not worth to pursure the matter any further. I never give advice when I'm not being asked.

I'll just leave it at that. My advice for both new players and players that don't feel like playing with 'noobs' *in dungeons' stands: Join a guild.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Advice resistance....I’ve fallen into this situation but it was pointed out to me that they were not seeking my advice. What often happens is player 1 seeks to advise player 2 because player 1 feels they can help or change player 2’s action and decisions. Problem starts because player 1 feels their info is what needs to happen and lacks a solid basis that universally “right”.

When I say 'advice resistance' I mean 'advice resistance'. Somebody asks a question in zone chat. I know the answer and in most cases have confirmed it just recently. I say my piece and am met with an answer saying 'I don't think that's how it works'. That's it for me then. I was a moderator on a forum for long enough to know that in 8 out of 10 cases it's not worth to pursure the matter any further. I never give advice when I'm not being asked.

I'll just leave it at that. My advice for both new players and players that don't feel like playing with 'noobs' *in dungeons' stands: Join a guild.

Gotcha that’s different than my reply and I’d agree fully there.

It does bring out a consistent theme that I’ve noticed over the years.
“We” and “they” can’t seem to find concrete information from the source. Seems intentional at times

different topic tho

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, no the discussion isn’t what you decide it pertains to.

Right back at you. This is what the discussion pertains to, nothing more.

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

@LordSemaj

Exactly and that’s exactly what I’m commenting on. Elitism and within your comment, you’re telling us that the way you “measure” people is the method “you’re using” and why it’s “right”

To clarify, the OP that you quoted.....is using the term “elitism”. Some would say it means this:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience — are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

What you’re doing is just that and that’s the discussion. I’m not making generalization, it’s actually what you wrote

No, what you're doing is precisely what my original post was brought in to denounce. People assuming elitism everywhere and attributing it incorrectly for their own selfish purposes. My post only describes how new players should not come in with an over-inflated sense of entitlement and expect instant gratification access to the best gear and hardest content on the backs of those who have been here longer and struggled to reach where they were. You're the one who turned it into a judgement contest, which I even pointed out was PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. People do precisely what you're doing, they get triggered by innocuous concepts such as someone expecting you to have gold weapons before doing a vet trial because that actually helps the REST OF THE TEAM. Then they cry out "elitism" when they get kicked because the team didn't want to help someone who REFUSES TO HELP THE TEAM.

Your concept of elitism and your application of it are crossed and messed up. In the world you envision, brand new level 50 CP 160s with blue gear would be getting invited to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj so that we can all farm their Moondancer for them.

So instead of consider that your actions have an impact, your interpretation is that it’s not you it’s others

It’s not my concept, it’s the accepted definition of the term.....

He isn't missing the point, he's spot on with the point.

Quite frankly? This isn't souly related to ESO. I've seen this happen time and again on other games. Offer a suggestion, call for help, get a frankly hostile response, and then promptly watch them cry elitist after they get kicked.

He's right. Your being needlessly authoritarian as far as what criteria counts as elitism, when elitism wasn't really the point. It was -not being a horrible person-. It was not refusing to communicate, and giving noobs the time of day instead of screeching at them, and you seem to be intent on doing just that.

But quite frankly, I predicted this reaction so far in the past you may as well call me nostradamus.

@Doctordarkspawn
They actually are, please be sure to read the many comments me and that user have had.

Specifically the one where they make questionable comments within a quote directed towards the OP later comments.

Then read the later comment i made about that specific quote.

While everyone is entitled their own opinions and can play and act in many different ways, specifically in this topic, some of their comments are not conducive to other players and that’s specifically what the trail of comments between me and them address that and how it applies to the game itself.

I did read the entire comment chain. My judgement still stands.

Also I dont even know what your saying, your being needlessly cryptic with this post, and I dont care enough to re-read the comment chain on your account. Sorry, I have a life.

Juju_beans · February 2018

Destruent wrote: »

Sure, you have. Find a guild/frineds in the game and there you go, If you use group-finder you cannot expect anything from your group and your group can't expect anything from you...so don't expect to be carried or the group catering to your needs....

I don't get, why people expect RANDOMS to get them through/teach them the dungeons.

There was a time in ESO without a groupfinder...it still works without it, don't forget that.

Are you implying that random dungeons/finder are only for "experienced" players that want to rush it ?

And I don't get why people expect RANDOMS to be full of high dps speed racers with years of playing the game.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, no the discussion isn’t what you decide it pertains to.

Right back at you. This is what the discussion pertains to, nothing more.

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

@LordSemaj

Exactly and that’s exactly what I’m commenting on. Elitism and within your comment, you’re telling us that the way you “measure” people is the method “you’re using” and why it’s “right”

To clarify, the OP that you quoted.....is using the term “elitism”. Some would say it means this:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience — are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

What you’re doing is just that and that’s the discussion. I’m not making generalization, it’s actually what you wrote

No, what you're doing is precisely what my original post was brought in to denounce. People assuming elitism everywhere and attributing it incorrectly for their own selfish purposes. My post only describes how new players should not come in with an over-inflated sense of entitlement and expect instant gratification access to the best gear and hardest content on the backs of those who have been here longer and struggled to reach where they were. You're the one who turned it into a judgement contest, which I even pointed out was PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. People do precisely what you're doing, they get triggered by innocuous concepts such as someone expecting you to have gold weapons before doing a vet trial because that actually helps the REST OF THE TEAM. Then they cry out "elitism" when they get kicked because the team didn't want to help someone who REFUSES TO HELP THE TEAM.

Your concept of elitism and your application of it are crossed and messed up. In the world you envision, brand new level 50 CP 160s with blue gear would be getting invited to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj so that we can all farm their Moondancer for them.

So instead of consider that your actions have an impact, your interpretation is that it’s not you it’s others

It’s not my concept, it’s the accepted definition of the term.....

He isn't missing the point, he's spot on with the point.

Quite frankly? This isn't souly related to ESO. I've seen this happen time and again on other games. Offer a suggestion, call for help, get a frankly hostile response, and then promptly watch them cry elitist after they get kicked.

He's right. Your being needlessly authoritarian as far as what criteria counts as elitism, when elitism wasn't really the point. It was -not being a horrible person-. It was not refusing to communicate, and giving noobs the time of day instead of screeching at them, and you seem to be intent on doing just that.

But quite frankly, I predicted this reaction so far in the past you may as well call me nostradamus.

@Doctordarkspawn
They actually are, please be sure to read the many comments me and that user have had.

Specifically the one where they make questionable comments within a quote directed towards the OP later comments.

Then read the later comment i made about that specific quote.

While everyone is entitled their own opinions and can play and act in many different ways, specifically in this topic, some of their comments are not conducive to other players and that’s specifically what the trail of comments between me and them address that and how it applies to the game itself.

I did read the entire comment chain. My judgement still stands.

Also I dont even know what your saying, your being needlessly cryptic with this post, and I dont care enough to re-read the comment chain on your account. Sorry, I have a life.

@Doctordarkspawn
You quoted only part of an ongoing discussion. There are what I’d suggest as more important parts of the ongoing discussion that isn’t in the quote you choose to comment on.

It’s fine if you don’t want to go back and read the rest but because you called me out, I replied because you attempt to call me out but seemingly didn’t read the rest of the conversation between me and the individual.

Destruent · February 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Sure, you have. Find a guild/frineds in the game and there you go, If you use group-finder you cannot expect anything from your group and your group can't expect anything from you...so don't expect to be carried or the group catering to your needs....

I don't get, why people expect RANDOMS to get them through/teach them the dungeons.

There was a time in ESO without a groupfinder...it still works without it, don't forget that.

Are you implying that random dungeons/finder are only for "experienced" players that want to rush it ?

And I don't get why people expect RANDOMS to be full of high dps speed racers with years of playing the game.

In normal dungeons those "dps high speed racers" don't expect anything...they just solo it and don't care about what you do...

And i did not say, it's only for experienced. Just be prepared to get disappointed/not the group you want and accept it.
If you really want a run catering to your needs, get a guild.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Also, no the discussion isn’t what you decide it pertains to.

Right back at you. This is what the discussion pertains to, nothing more.

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

@LordSemaj

Exactly and that’s exactly what I’m commenting on. Elitism and within your comment, you’re telling us that the way you “measure” people is the method “you’re using” and why it’s “right”

To clarify, the OP that you quoted.....is using the term “elitism”. Some would say it means this:

Elitism is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite — a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience — are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others.

What you’re doing is just that and that’s the discussion. I’m not making generalization, it’s actually what you wrote

No, what you're doing is precisely what my original post was brought in to denounce. People assuming elitism everywhere and attributing it incorrectly for their own selfish purposes. My post only describes how new players should not come in with an over-inflated sense of entitlement and expect instant gratification access to the best gear and hardest content on the backs of those who have been here longer and struggled to reach where they were. You're the one who turned it into a judgement contest, which I even pointed out was PRECISELY THE PROBLEM. People do precisely what you're doing, they get triggered by innocuous concepts such as someone expecting you to have gold weapons before doing a vet trial because that actually helps the REST OF THE TEAM. Then they cry out "elitism" when they get kicked because the team didn't want to help someone who REFUSES TO HELP THE TEAM.

Your concept of elitism and your application of it are crossed and messed up. In the world you envision, brand new level 50 CP 160s with blue gear would be getting invited to Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj so that we can all farm their Moondancer for them.

So instead of consider that your actions have an impact, your interpretation is that it’s not you it’s others

It’s not my concept, it’s the accepted definition of the term.....

He isn't missing the point, he's spot on with the point.

Quite frankly? This isn't souly related to ESO. I've seen this happen time and again on other games. Offer a suggestion, call for help, get a frankly hostile response, and then promptly watch them cry elitist after they get kicked.

He's right. Your being needlessly authoritarian as far as what criteria counts as elitism, when elitism wasn't really the point. It was -not being a horrible person-. It was not refusing to communicate, and giving noobs the time of day instead of screeching at them, and you seem to be intent on doing just that.

But quite frankly, I predicted this reaction so far in the past you may as well call me nostradamus.

@Doctordarkspawn
They actually are, please be sure to read the many comments me and that user have had.

Specifically the one where they make questionable comments within a quote directed towards the OP later comments.

Then read the later comment i made about that specific quote.

While everyone is entitled their own opinions and can play and act in many different ways, specifically in this topic, some of their comments are not conducive to other players and that’s specifically what the trail of comments between me and them address that and how it applies to the game itself.

I did read the entire comment chain. My judgement still stands.

Also I dont even know what your saying, your being needlessly cryptic with this post, and I dont care enough to re-read the comment chain on your account. Sorry, I have a life.

@Doctordarkspawn
You quoted only part of an ongoing discussion. There are what I’d suggest as more important parts of the ongoing discussion that isn’t in the quote you choose to comment on.

It’s fine if you don’t want to go back and read the rest but because you called me out, I replied because you attempt to call me out but seemingly didn’t read the rest of the conversation between me and the individual.

I did. And I came to the conclusion you were being needlessly agressive on the definition of 'elitism', and were fixed on it, when the problem was bigger than that.

And when you told me to re-read it, you were completely unclear on what you wanted clarified. And I didn't have the time or inclination to sift through it to see what you ment. This was a problem in that discussion if I recall, you not being very clear resulting in miscommuniocation and crossed wires.

Now stop pinging me.

Ragnarok0130 · February 2018

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

Examples would be very helpful here and generalizing the entire player base based on one or two incidences that you may have experienced isn't helpful or honest - and you lost credibility once you throw out accusations like "elitists". I've been with ESO since closed beta and ESO has one of the most helpful and friendly communities that I've come across online so perhaps it's your attitude drawing the ire of your fellow players?

Valen_Byte · February 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

What’s funny is the OP is asking ppl not to be so elitist and the comments....

-1000 Forum points for desecrating the image of the late great Gene Wilder. Like anyone with half a brain, Mr. Wilder would never have used the word 'bruh.'

LordSemaj · February 2018

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

And not so damn elitist. There are plenty of new and returning players who are trying to get into the game so the bullying and put downs aren't helping the game's population. We need these people to hang around for the game's future. I'm getting sick of the constant crappy behaviour.

Rant over.

Examples would be very helpful here and generalizing the entire player base based on one or two incidences that you may have experienced isn't helpful or honest - and you lost credibility once you throw out accusations like "elitists". I've been with ESO since closed beta and ESO has one of the most helpful and friendly communities that I've come across online so perhaps it's your attitude drawing the ire of your fellow players?

+1000 Forum points

duendology · February 2018

After having read the comments up to this page...I have this scenario

Four players queue for a normal random and meet in a said dungeon

1: I don't know this dungeon, you?
2: Nope.
3: No.
4. I have. I've got max 15 minutes for this.

a) the 4th player leaves
b) is kicked by other 3 players.

firedrgn · February 2018

I did a random vet and one dude kept voting to kick i said no .. he left. Never said anything.

I am assuming it cause of a cp77 joined. Spindel is a cake walk on vet. People just dont want to remember they where cp 77 before. Blah

duendology · February 2018

But to be more serious

Everything boils down to communication on both sides:

Inexperienced players should be open and honest about their lack of experience.

As for the vets who have neither patience nor time for teaching:
a) either have the DECENCY to at least explain why it won't work and suggest something CONSTRUCTIVE. It just that... politeness...it does not cost much time...and it does not cost much time to type and explain why. If you don't even have time for this.. you shouldn't be playing mmo in the first place..or play it with your friends only who are exactly like you.
b) or AT LEAST, AT LEAST give a new one benefit of the doubt and do with them the first boss or mobs and THEN explain to them why it won't work. They will know it's because of a ) gear, b)rotation c)having not useful skills slotted, d)all the three.

Nothing like being kicked and not knowing what for... that's how the players give a bad name to the community..that's how you create the toxic environment

Communication.

Still, it's about doing normal dungeons, not DLC or vet.
Someone could tell you, dear vet player, that they don't care you had done that dungeon for like x'th time and you don't have time because of whatever reasons. And if, if you're outnumbered because you happen to end up with other new players.. you may get kicked from the group instead those "damn newbies".

Random Dungeon Finder is for EVERYONE and not only for vet players with super hyper duper meta builds and ton of experience because they play it "since beta".

firedrgn · February 2018

I get it all the time lvl toons. Back when skyreach was a thiing. People begging for a player in skyreach.
Oh no im not going with you. Um im 600 cp . I can run skyreach by myself you cant your asking for help whats the deal.

So its just an ignorant bias . People are not even smart enough to ask questions before getting triggered.

Osteos · February 2018

duendology wrote: »

After having read the comments up to this page...I have this scenario

Four players queue for a normal random and meet in a said dungeon

1: I don't know this dungeon, you?
2: Nope.
3: No.
4. I have. I've got max 15 minutes for this.

a) the 4th player leaves
b) is kicked by other 3 players.

This is actually a really good post. Reading through this thread it seems one of the biggest problems is communication. My advice to anyone new to dungeons is to say hello and tell the group you have the quest. I think most of us assume you are there for the pledge or daily unless someone indicates otherwise. Other players can't read your mind.

This holds true for experienced players, say hello and ask if anyone needs the quest. If someone says yes then accept the fact that this run is going to take a bit more time. If you can't spare the time that is on you and you should leave if the others are willing. If you want to do the story quest and the others are unwilling then its up to you to leave and find a new group.

In your scenario 4 should definitely leave or asked to be kicked if he doesn't want a penalty.

And to the few people on here who have indicated that they are unwilling to adapt their gameplay to be a beneficial part of the team. Stay out of group content.

SquareSausage · February 2018

hamgatan wrote: »

SquareSausage wrote: »

There are too many Noobs spoiling group finder.
If Noobs aren't told to use food, get better DPS or L2P they will continue to be Noobs spoiling not only their own enjoyment in grp stuff but others too.

Getting kicked from grp and/or bashed is the rights of passage ceremonies all Noobs must endure.

And you are exactly what OP is alluding to.

Told? Perhaps asking is a better approach. No one likes to be 'told'.

No wonder he/she feels like crap.

People learn from a variety of ways based on their cognitive approach, visual, auditory, kinaesthetic.. telling people 'omg n00b l2p' is counter productive and doesn't address the problem which can probably be solved by asking 'hey dude r u OK? Are you stuck with anything?'

Depending on their learning alignment they may not get something that's explained in text chat, but visually if you show them they may get it. It never hurts to ask the question.

I remember one time I tanked a final boss and used, no joke, over 100 soul gems reviving the group finder team. The game is no fun if it's always a cakewalk, take being grouped with new players as a challenge. Challenge yourself. Its how you develop and better yourself if you have to work harder.

And rite of passage? Give me a break. You need to develop some patience.

Calm yourself, it was tongue in cheek.

Some people need to lay off the high horse carebear attitude.