Could we please be a bit more noob (new player) friendly?

WhiteScythe

I appreciate the positive feedback guys, I do. I do not appreciate the trolling and negative input, it's not needed and not wanted in this thread.

We should be encouraging people picking up the game and playing.. NOT doing the opposite. Sorry if you're unable to handle "lol noob scrub l2p"

Again I wanted to get it out there that we need to be friendlier.. I can't even describe this new generation, certainly was not that way when I was their age.

Ep1kMalware

Kayira wrote: »

I have nothing against noobs and I am happy to help them in new dungeons, but slowly I am getting annoyed with quite a lot of them.

For examples I was running a random normal dungeon with a PUG and of course it had to be Mazzatun, so we are getting to the boss with the poison swamps that you have to cleanse. I asked my group 3 times before if anyone is doing it the first time and needs the mechanics explained. Three times no one says anything.

So we get to this boss and we wipe repeatedly. I repeat:"Do you need the mechanics explained, is it your first time?". Finally someone comes forward and says he has no clue, so I explain the boss and finally we kill him.
Next we get to the end boss. I know now that I have new players, and want to explain the mechanics, but god forbid... All 3 of them charge at the boss before I can even write 1 sentence. So in the end I soloed the boss because 3 players couldn't have waited for 1min for me to explain the boss.

More or less the same thing happened a few days later in cradle of shadows end boss, where no one said that they were new and thought they had to kill all adds when ported out by the boss and then exploded during the shadow hunt.
It took them 4 death to chill for a minute for me to explain the mechanics.

There is nothing wrong with being new, but please listen to the older players for tipps and mechanics. When you are queued as a DD and you come into the dungeon with Sword and Shield or a frost staff, please listen and swap weapon when someone tells you that you are taunting the entire time, there usually is a reason why someone is commenting on your weapon of choice. The mobs aren't by chance constantly on you when you are using the your first skill in sword and shield skill line.

Oh, and new players never run vet dungeons with randoms, find a nice guild and get everything explained and make sure you do the required DPS and all will be good, but PUG vet dungeons is and always has been a bad decision and usually ends in constant death and annoyance.

I had a half formed group lastnight. Healer running ma/spc lightning wall, whole 9. Tank in torug/alkosh lightning wall, breach poisons. A *** of buffs. We que up for vet dailies and get 2 dps that with our combined dps did <5k dps.

It was vet vaults, and it took approx 11 minutes to kill the harvester boss. It not that either of us hate noobs, we just have alot of toons to run through the undaunted grimd and not enough time to watch paint dry.

Did we leave? Nope, we kicked the noobs. I'm not getting lfg banned because 2 stupids wanted to spam light attacks >.> get real

dtsharples

Totally agree that people need to be much more patient with newer players, regarding mechanics etc, but the bare essentials should not be overlooked by even the newest of players. Food, Doing your role etc - that's just basic stuff that everyone knows.
I got so tired of people not having food that I crafted an ass-tonne of the non-level specific foods and carried them with me to hand out to the lazier players. (Baring in mind you can buy food from any chef in any town, so it is lazy).

I levelled a tank recently in normal dungeons and almost every time was doing the most DPS, and this is a level 20 toon specced as tank, in tank armour - grouped with mostly CP level players.
Ordinarily I'd just level as a DD and swap to Tank later, but I wanted to level my Tank skills so they were ready when I hit 50.
There are a tonne of lazy people queuing for these things that just want a carry - not interested to learn anything, and just make the same silly mistakes over and over.

Also, one of the biggest issues is people just not talking, at all in group, new or not - and new players not asking for help / advice.
"Anyones 1st time here?" no reply
"Anyone doing the quest" no reply
"Is someone actually healing" no reply

I understand it can be daunting maybe, but you'll find asking questions usually gets decent results from at least one group member. People are happy to give out advice if it means you'll play your role better and get the dungeon completed faster / easier.

Also, if someone gives you advice - Listen. Take it or leave it but don't whine like a little [snip] that someone is being an elitist when they are explaining that using a bow on a Nord healer is not the best idea.
If someone is going out of their way to help, that usually means they actually care about your gaming experience too.
Too often you give out friendly advice or tips and people get seriously butt-hurt and offensive. It works both ways, either take advice / look it up online and work on your build, or continue being a burden on your group.
Also, join a guild! Advice flows freely in guild chat and people are much warmer to 'one of their own' than a random.

[Edited to remove profanity]

Lysette

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

NewBlacksmurf

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer.

This is a very good point

dtsharples

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

That is what RP guilds are for ^

NewBlacksmurf

dtsharples wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

That is what RP guilds are for ^

I disagree and that suggests something else. I have a character that fits this concept and she is a warden who plays very well, but to Lysete’s point, it doesn’t fit one role so you have skills from at least two roles, being healer and dps.

While I’m open to adjusting, I think the point is for others to be open to different roles vs only being open to a build on a website that matches a traditional trinity from other games.

Ep1kMalware

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Lysette

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

dtsharples

It isn't elitist to want to finish a normal dungeon in under 30 minutes, its just realistic.
This is why RP guilds exist, so that part of the player base can dungeon together and experience the game the way they want to, without being harassed for it.
If you are role-playing a jack of all trades, the likely scenario is that he/she would not be in a serious dungeoning 'squad' - so that itself is immersion breaking imo.
No serious dungeoning team would take along a jack of all trades if they themselves had specific roles to play.

It's unfair to expect 3 other people to wait for your 'botanist' to examine every mushroom in fungal grotto (yes this has happened).
It might seem elitist for others to not understand your preference to RP, but it's also selfish to expect others to wait for you to act out your own scenario when they themselves are not role-players.

Bevik

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Are you joking, right?

Those roleplaying people are the ones who are just taking a good spot from a good player to get drops, achievements whatever because as you said they can't fullfill any role.
And sorry but yes, if you can't perform a role, get in a roleplaying guild or just don't use group finder. I'm patient really but expecting anyone else to carry you it's just utterly wrong. Has nothing to do with elitists if I prefer players who can perform a role properly, makes everyone's life easier.

NewBlacksmurf

dtsharples wrote: »

It isn't elitist to want to finish a normal dungeon in under 30 minutes, its just realistic.
This is why RP guilds exist, so that part of the player base can dungeon together and experience the game the way they want to, without being harassed for it.
If you are role-playing a jack of all trades, the likely scenario is that he/she would not be in a serious dungeoning 'squad' - so that itself is immersion breaking imo.
No serious dungeoning team would take along a jack of all trades if they themselves had specific roles to play.

It's unfair to expect 3 other people to wait for your 'botanist' to examine every mushroom in fungal grotto (yes this has happened).
It might seem elitist for others to not understand your preference to RP, but it's also selfish to expect others to wait for you to act out your own scenario when they themselves are not role-players.

I think that’s your opinion....here’s the problem ...it’s an opinion so I’ll share mine.

Guilds by all intents and purposes are for groups of people to come together to play. Whether that be a certain way with different builds or min/max Guilds are a collection of players who may or may not hold a similar play style or mindset.

However anyone who uses the activity finder should not under any circumstances expect anyone else to fit any ideas of what a build or role should have. If the game website makes such clear, then I’d argue that people need a build that mimics the developers website suggestions but until that happens, the example Lysette brings up as well as other ideas are always welcome.

See here is how it works...
First you, me, anyone belong in the game.

Next, if we choose to play together we mix and match

Later, we may be successful or we may not but it’s for entertainment purposes. That’s what many can’t seem to comprehend....it’s actually not suppose to work out every time due to the thousands or millions of variables.

If anyone of us is seeking a quick, speed run or runs that always result in our own definitions of success, then we need to play in a guild or real life friend group setting only.

First plan, then proceed

Lysette

Bevik wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Are you joking, right?

Those roleplaying people are the ones who are just taking a good spot from a good player to get drops, achievements whatever because as you said they can't fullfill any role.
And sorry but yes, if you can't perform a role, get in a roleplaying guild or just don't use group finder. I'm patient really but expecting anyone else to carry you it's just utterly wrong. Has nothing to do with elitists if I prefer players who can perform a role properly, makes everyone's life easier.

Yeah that is what I am doing - I do not take part in this kind of gameplay, because people would just hate me there - and i see this as elitist - if they would really be elite, it would not matter for them to have to carry me through, because they woudl be good enough to do it anyway. So how much of a real elite player are they?- not that much of a real elite in my books, just their attitute is elitist.

Ep1kMalware

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Why did you ignore my first post and paste this finger pointing trash? Most 'elitests' are going to do ~40-50k dps with the buffs they get and hardly notice an underperforming healer. It's not the 'elitests', it's peoplemlike you that point fingers.

Ep1kMalware

Bevik wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Are you joking, right?

Those roleplaying people are the ones who are just taking a good spot from a good player to get drops, achievements whatever because as you said they can't fullfill any role.
And sorry but yes, if you can't perform a role, get in a roleplaying guild or just don't use group finder. I'm patient really but expecting anyone else to carry you it's just utterly wrong. Has nothing to do with elitists if I prefer players who can perform a role properly, makes everyone's life easier.

That's where I have issues too. When people que already expecting to get carried. I try to assume that people give it an honest try, but when it becomes unearthed that they have no intentions of doing anything but demanding a ride I'll drop them from the group. I'd rather have a noob that tries. Reminds me of when I started playing

Lysette

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Why did you ignore my first post and paste this finger pointing trash? Most 'elitests' are going to do ~40-50k dps with the buffs they get and hardly notice an underperforming healer. It's not the 'elitests', it's peoplemlike you that point fingers.

I didn't ignore it - I am just pointing out how things look like from my perspective - and I basically got my idea of it supported - I will not take part in this EVER - because I just do not like the attitude presented here.

Lysette

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Bevik wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Are you joking, right?

Those roleplaying people are the ones who are just taking a good spot from a good player to get drops, achievements whatever because as you said they can't fullfill any role.
And sorry but yes, if you can't perform a role, get in a roleplaying guild or just don't use group finder. I'm patient really but expecting anyone else to carry you it's just utterly wrong. Has nothing to do with elitists if I prefer players who can perform a role properly, makes everyone's life easier.

That's where I have issues too. When people que already expecting to get carried. I try to assume that people give it an honest try, but when it becomes unearthed that they have no intentions of doing anything but demanding a ride I'll drop them from the group. I'd rather have a noob that tries. Reminds me of when I started playing

See,the point is - even if I am doing my very best, I will not have any near to the dps these players pull off - not even close. They will always hate me for that, I am underperforming even if I would do my very best. So I am excluded from this type of gameplay basically.

Ep1kMalware

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Why did you ignore my first post and paste this finger pointing trash? Most 'elitests' are going to do ~40-50k dps with the buffs they get and hardly notice an underperforming healer. It's not the 'elitests', it's peoplemlike you that point fingers.

I didn't ignore it - I am just pointing out how things look like from my perspective - and I basically got my idea of it supported - I will not take part in this EVER - because I just do not like the attitude presented here.

Have fun lol. Who do you think carries/teaches the noobs though lmfao. Without elitests 80% of tamriel would be rubberbanding a fungalgrotto 2 progression.

Adambaker25

I agree just yesterday someone in zone chat was asking for help with vCOA2 so me and 2 friend took him through vCOA2 teaching him mechs and it was his first completion, he was 244CP and it made him very happy and yeah people was being toxic to him in zone chat, being nasty to people who started playing the game after you is going to solve nothing so every now and then help people out

TazESO

Tannus15 wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

In-game and possibly on the forums I don't keep too much of an eye on things around here but it's pretty bad in game. Example; a normal dungeon. Someone was forced to leave the dungeon because they didn't have food. This person was getting crapped on in the chat and when I said guys relax it's alright don't stress about it they were attacking me as well.

That person left the dungeon and messaged me saying he's never going to do a dungeon again if that's the way people are.

You're blaming the wrong group of people.

The elite and hardcore don't remotely care what you're wearing or doing or eating in a normal dungeon. Normals are easy enough that people who are genuinely good at the game can solo them and when pugging fully expect to.

The idiots you're talking about are living on mount stupid.



They know just enough about the game to make themselves feel superior, but don't actually have enough skill to be good at the game.

Love this.

Lysette

It''s a matter of perspective - i guess most player will never even get to level 50 - so for most this game is all but how you see it. There are more casuals out there, who never have the time nor the intention to L2P in the way you want them to. They simply can't, and when they spend a couple of hours after work to get distracted from real life for a bit and enjoy a fantasy world, they certainly will not want to have a stressful experience with those, who play the game many hours every day and "learned to play" the game and want to rush as fast as possible through a dungeon to farm it - for most this is not how they play or how they could play due to time restrains and a general need to relax in a game, instead to have stress again. Do those not as well have a right to experience group play in a dungeon - even if they cannot even close perform like those elite players?

TazESO

Eremith wrote: »

When a person complains about food buff in a normal dungeon, then that person is a noob.

Elitists, hardcore gamers, dung set farmers, experienced players don't really care about it because they can solo normal dungeon. I go through the dungeon, wait for others before boss fight so they could get their reward for that boss, wait for them when they need to do a quest, and I say "thanks all" in the end, even if I know that my groupies don't have a clue what they are doing and how bad they perform.

Same.

Ep1kMalware

TazESO wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

WhiteScythe wrote: »

In-game and possibly on the forums I don't keep too much of an eye on things around here but it's pretty bad in game. Example; a normal dungeon. Someone was forced to leave the dungeon because they didn't have food. This person was getting crapped on in the chat and when I said guys relax it's alright don't stress about it they were attacking me as well.

That person left the dungeon and messaged me saying he's never going to do a dungeon again if that's the way people are.

You're blaming the wrong group of people.

The elite and hardcore don't remotely care what you're wearing or doing or eating in a normal dungeon. Normals are easy enough that people who are genuinely good at the game can solo them and when pugging fully expect to.

The idiots you're talking about are living on mount stupid.



They know just enough about the game to make themselves feel superior, but don't actually have enough skill to be good at the game.

Love this.

Pretty much exactly this. How many flawless comquerers care if your healer is a dk?

Charliff1966

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ok, I will say something from a casual "play as you want" player perspective. It starts with the roles in group dungeons "dps, tank, healer" - what if I am roleplaying a jack-of-all-trades type character, who is good in nothing really, but is less dependent on the support of others, because he is used to sustain him/herself in solo play. This kind of character will not have any chance to play in a group dungeon, because he does not fit the role-model of these dungeons.even he/she is playing what the game offered in the first place "play as you want". So if the game is offering that as a selling point, one should not bash on these players, just because they do not fit the MMO roles of tank, healer and dps - they still play as intended,but not wanted by the MMO community,even the game advertised "play as you want" - there should be some more tolerance to these players.

Edit: and guess what difficulty such a player has to categorize himself in such a group - because he is neither a tank, nor a dps nor a healer. So what should this character do then if he wants to participate in a group - he has to choose one of these roles - and certainly he will not fit the bill others expect him to do then - simply because he is a jack-of-all-trades and not an MMO type player.

Sure. Just don't deliberately que for dungeons you can't perform in and don't send hatemail if you get kicked for underperformance and hangup the group. With transmutation geodes many decent players are doing pledges again. It's not likely anybody is going to so much as look at you twice unless you are doing something really wrong.


Let's not forget how the rest of it goes:
Jack of all trades, master of none

Yes, master of none - and just because of that he is prone to be kicked from the group, because he will certainly underperform in any of these tasks, simply because he does not fit into this role-based system. And some wonder why these kind of players avoid to play in groups?- It is not them, it is the elitist MMO crowd, who expects MMO type roles - whilst this is a roleplaying game advertised as "play as you want". The mixture of a role playing game with an MMO type gameplay is just meh.

Why did you ignore my first post and paste this finger pointing trash? Most 'elitests' are going to do ~40-50k dps with the buffs they get and hardly notice an underperforming healer. It's not the 'elitests', it's peoplemlike you that point fingers.

I didn't ignore it - I am just pointing out how things look like from my perspective - and I basically got my idea of it supported - I will not take part in this EVER - because I just do not like the attitude presented here.

Have fun lol. Who do you think carries/teaches the noobs though lmfao. Without elitests 80% of tamriel would be rubberbanding a fungalgrotto 2 progression.

Without us noobs the game would be dead.

TheCyberDruid

I think this whole... let's call it 'discussion' for lack of a better word shows what the problem is Perspective. Coming from a 'I don't know what to do' gives you almost the same frustration as 'I did this a hundred times'. There is a middle ground where you know enough, but are still improving when you have fun doing it.

Best advice for the other two ends of the spectrum is: Join a guild. It fixes so much if you want to play the dungeon content.

Lysette

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

I think this whole... let's call it 'discussion' for lack of a better word shows what the problem is Perspective. Coming from a 'I don't know what to do' gives you almost the same frustration as 'I did this a hundred times'. There is a middle ground where you know enough, but are still improving when you have fun doing it.

Best advice for the other two ends of the spectrum is: Join a guild. It fixes so much if you want to play the dungeon content.

Yeah, and some forget how it is if you play the game with normal blue gear on a mid-range level with not even half of the skills unlocked instead to have legendary gear, all skills unlocked and a lot of CP on hand. For those players there should be a way to learn how to play dungeons with others as well - without that they would have to redesign their character for this purpose.

Destruent

Lysette wrote: »

It''s a matter of perspective - i guess most player will never even get to level 50 - so for most this game is all but how you see it. There are more casuals out there, who never have the time nor the intention to L2P in the way you want them to. They simply can't, and when they spend a couple of hours after work to get distracted from real life for a bit and enjoy a fantasy world, they certainly will not want to have a stressful experience with those, who play the game many hours every day and "learned to play" the game and want to rush as fast as possible through a dungeon to farm it - for most this is not how they play or how they could play due to time restrains and a general need to relax in a game, instead to have stress again. Do those not as well have a right to experience group play in a dungeon - even if they cannot even close perform like those elite players?

Sure, you have. Find a guild/frineds in the game and there you go, If you use group-finder you cannot expect anything from your group and your group can't expect anything from you...so don't expect to be carried or the group catering to your needs....

I don't get, why people expect RANDOMS to get them through/teach them the dungeons.

There was a time in ESO without a groupfinder...it still works without it, don't forget that.

TheCyberDruid

Lysette wrote: »

Yeah, and some forget how it is if you play the game with normal blue gear on a mid-range level with not even half of the skills unlocked instead to have legendary gear, all skills unlocked and a lot of CP on hand. For those players there should be a way to learn how to play dungeons with others as well - without that they would have to redesign their character for this purpose.

If you enter a dungeon (let alone a DLC one) with blue gear there might be no way any kind of 'noob friendliness' will help you I get what you mean, but the problem is that people expect dungeons to be maybe a bit harder than public dungeons. The learning curve is steep and can be painful, but only proper advice (and proper gear and skills) can fix that. PVP has its place and dungeons/trials are there for people who love to play in groups and also like a challenge. Don't think it would be fair to dumb down dungeons just because 'everybody should be able to do them'.

NewBlacksmurf

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

I think this whole... let's call it 'discussion' for lack of a better word shows what the problem is Perspective. Coming from a 'I don't know what to do' gives you almost the same frustration as 'I did this a hundred times'. There is a middle ground where you know enough, but are still improving when you have fun doing it.

Best advice for the other two ends of the spectrum is: Join a guild. It fixes so much if you want to play the dungeon content.

Respectfully that the same advice as L2P

That really doesn’t address the issues the OP brings up

Adernath

jabrone77 wrote: »

First, it's never pointless to ask to be nice. I know how unrealistic it is to ask a a**hole to be nice. That is a lost cause. But asking a reasonable person to think before snapping at a new player who makes a mistake? Not pointless at all.

1) I was referring to the request/thread in this forum. Do you think that this will change the slightest in regards of people's behavior in a PUG? Asking in the PUG: fine, but in the forum? Pointless.

jabrone77 wrote: »

As far as WOW goes, they are going the way of ESO and adding level scaling, so not so perfect of an example, I guess...

https://www.polygon.com/2017/11/3/16604356/world-of-warcraft-level-scaling

2) I was talking about the state of WoW as it was over the entire last decade. Don't be silly ...