1500 crowns per outfit slot (1 slot) just under $1200 for every slot

Esha76

lordrichter wrote: »

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Kanar wrote: »

I just hope the posts in this thread aren't an example of the behavior identified in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395491/the-psychology-of-zos-forum-part-1/p1

If you're complaining about the price or feel it's unfair then please don't give in to temptation and buy an outfit slot.

I do not like Crown Crates and do not feel they should be part of the game. In the year (plus) since Crown Crates were introduced on the Live server, I have yet to purchase a Crown Crate. I have not opened any of the free Crown Crates that they hand out. I have 56 unopened Crown Crates on PC.

Trust me. I will not by buying any 1500 Crown outfit slots.

I give you credit. That's more dedication than I have. Though I have never spent any money on crown crates, I did open the ones they gave for being a Plus member and Morrowind pre-order. I got one or two nice costumes out of all of them, but I found the experience to be more of a tease. Which is exactly what it was intended to be. I don't see myself ever spending money on crates.

The real tragedy in this is that I find the outfit system is very enjoyable. However I have already used up my free slots on all my characters either flushing out set appearances, or the few I created a whole new look for. I'm not blowing up to 20k gold every week just to play Barbie. So... it seems that I have reached the limits of this system for my purposes, which is is exceedingly disappointing.

And that being said, it has also limited my inclination to acquire future motifs. I'm not going to say never... but what was once the biggest reason why I played this game, is now not exciting or interesting for me in the slightest.

OrdoHermetica

Kanar wrote: »

I just hope the posts in this thread aren't an example of the behavior identified in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395491/the-psychology-of-zos-forum-part-1/p1

If you're complaining about the price or feel it's unfair then please don't give in to temptation and buy an outfit slot.

I have the crowns and only really need 2 or 3 total outfit slots, but am not buying on principle at this time. The real test comes 2, 3 months down the road when the pricing doesn't change; will you still have the willpower to protest?

Personally, I'll still have the willpower, yes. I never buy mount training lessons, either, unless they're part of a larger bundle that I want, even though I have the Crowns and I'm in the process of leveling a new alt, so I have to deal with my agonizingly slow mount on a regular basis.

I already thought riding lessons were too expensive to be worth it, and Outfit Slots are 50% more than that. I could literally buy a new character slot for the same price. I really enjoy the Outfitting system and have used all of my free slots, but I actually find the price of Outfit slots insulting, so the "who exactly do you think you are, and how little do you think of me by trying to sell me this?" indignation will keep my resolve firmly in place, I think.

Morgul667

At this price there is no way im buying a slot, today or in a few months.

The hype is gone as I know I cannot use this system in the way i like.

I just dont use it and go back to other in game activities.

Velaethia

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Kanar wrote: »

I just hope the posts in this thread aren't an example of the behavior identified in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395491/the-psychology-of-zos-forum-part-1/p1

If you're complaining about the price or feel it's unfair then please don't give in to temptation and buy an outfit slot.

I do not like Crown Crates and do not feel they should be part of the game. In the year (plus) since Crown Crates were introduced on the Live server, I have yet to purchase a Crown Crate. I have not opened any of the free Crown Crates that they hand out. I have 56 unopened Crown Crates on PC.

Trust me. I will not by buying any 1500 Crown outfit slots.

Hmm I open the free ones, but never bought any.

Velaethia

BROTHER BAPTIST LOWER THE PRICE ON THESE OUTFITS

Elsonso

Esha76 wrote: »

The real tragedy in this is that I find the outfit system is very enjoyable. However I have already used up my free slots on all my characters either flushing out set appearances, or the few I created a whole new look for. I'm not blowing up to 20k gold every week just to play Barbie. So... it seems that I have reached the limits of this system for my purposes, which is is exceedingly disappointing.

I agree. They built a very nice outfit system, then went in a different direction with it.

Morgha_Kul

lordrichter wrote: »

.

Kanar wrote: »

I just hope the posts in this thread aren't an example of the behavior identified in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395491/the-psychology-of-zos-forum-part-1/p1

If you're complaining about the price or feel it's unfair then please don't give in to temptation and buy an outfit slot.

I do not like Crown Crates and do not feel they should be part of the game. In the year (plus) since Crown Crates were introduced on the Live server, I have yet to purchase a Crown Crate. I have not opened any of the free Crown Crates that they hand out. I have 56 unopened Crown Crates on PC.

Trust me. I will not by buying any 1500 Crown outfit slots.

Same. I've never and will never subsidize the gamble boxes.

OlafdieWaldfee

The second some crafty Addon-builder will give me the possibility to "save" outfit/dye-combinations inside the outfit-system, I gladly will pay 20k gold every two days to chnage between outfits.

anitajoneb17_ESO

OlafdieWaldfee wrote: »

The second some crafty Addon-builder will give me the possibility to "save" outfit/dye-combinations inside the outfit-system, I gladly will pay 20k gold every two days to chnage between outfits.

Rejoice :-)

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1921-VotansImprovedOutfitStation.html

(I haven't tested it yet and according to the description it doesn't do exactly what you want but it's getting closer. It's a great improvement of the already nice interface and outfit system).
By the way thanks to Votan for all hi/her super great addons.

Velaethia

Do you think we have forgotten? Do you think we have forgiven? Think again ZoS. Make the change.

OlafdieWaldfee

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

OlafdieWaldfee wrote: »

The second some crafty Addon-builder will give me the possibility to "save" outfit/dye-combinations inside the outfit-system, I gladly will pay 20k gold every two days to chnage between outfits.

Rejoice :-)

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info1921-VotansImprovedOutfitStation.html

(I haven't tested it yet and according to the description it doesn't do exactly what you want but it's getting closer. It's a great improvement of the already nice interface and outfit system).
By the way thanks to Votan for all hi/her super great addons.

The description is a little unclear but I think it's a step into the right direction: Memorizing outfit/dye-setups for future use. That's exactly what I want. So I'll have to pay 20 to 30k to change my outfits but at keast I won't have to build them from scratch each time.
And no money for the grubby, greedy hands of ZoS.

LadyAstrum

Yes, I'll be trying that addon asap .

Morgul667

Up to let our console friends know about this.... slots are not account wide. Beware

Morgha_Kul

Just going to leave this here.
They clearly have no interest in listening to their customers. We've been talking about this stuff for years now, and been completely ignored.

As I said before, sometimes I hate being right all the time.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I've posted elsewhere about this. The main issue I have is that the store inevitably becomes the focus of development, to the detriment of the rest of the game. I've seen it happen over and over (City of Heroes, D&D Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Star Trek Online, Champions Online, Age of Conan, and so on...)

In EVERY case, the game was crippled by this business model. The "churn" is NOT sustainable. It simply isn't.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Well, I've seen many other games go from subscription to some variation of free to play, but I've never seen any of those games improve. AT ALL. Quite the opposite. Every single time this sort of thing has happened in the past, it has been beyond detrimental to the game, it has destroyed the foundation of the game as a whole.

What I mean is, there is little to no development time (read dollars) spent on the GAME, all the company pays attention to is the STORE.

I've seen it over and over and over and over, and the pattern is exactly the same every time. As far as I'm concerned, this is really the beginning of the end. Any hopes I had of seeing parts of the world not currently in the game (like Vvardenfell or Black Marsh, or what have you) will likely be dashed. Those areas will be left undeveloped, unless they can be somehow monetized. And so it will go for everything, a downward slippery spiral into destruction.


Don't misunderstand me, I really hope I'm wrong. I've just never been wrong about this kind of thing before.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Well, I've seen many other games go from subscription to some variation of free to play, but I've never seen any of those games improve. AT ALL. Quite the opposite. Every single time this sort of thing has happened in the past, it has been beyond detrimental to the game, it has destroyed the foundation of the game as a whole.

What I mean is, there is little to no development time (read dollars) spent on the GAME, all the company pays attention to is the STORE.

I've seen it over and over and over and over, and the pattern is exactly the same every time. As far as I'm concerned, this is really the beginning of the end. Any hopes I had of seeing parts of the world not currently in the game (like Vvardenfell or Black Marsh, or what have you) will likely be dashed. Those areas will be left undeveloped, unless they can be somehow monetized. And so it will go for everything, a downward slippery spiral into destruction.


Don't misunderstand me, I really hope I'm wrong. I've just never been wrong about this kind of thing before.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I watched it happen to Star Wars Galaxies.
I watched it happen to City of Heroes.
I watched it happen to Dungeons & Dragons Online.
I watched it happen to Lord of the Rings Online.
I watched it happen to Champions Online.
I watched it happen to Age of Conan.
I watched it happen to Star Trek Online.
I watched it happen to Star Wars The Old Republic Online.
I watched it happen to Pirates of the Burning Sea.

I'm watching it happen to Elder Scrolls Online.

Every single time I've seen it before, it's followed the same exact pattern, with exactly the same results. How fast it happens varies, and how deeply it's felt depends on the game (for instance, Lord of the Rings Online suffers somewhat less because they have a definite story path to follow), but it always ends up in the same place.

You may disagree, but experience is a harsh teacher. It's also the best teacher. It's happened too many times for me to expect anything different this time.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I'm not saying the sky is falling. I'm saying they're knocking the legs out from under it. Eventually, it WILL fall.

It always follows the same pattern, just at different rates.

They all begin by saying they're going Free to Play or something like it, and that there will be a store with cosmetics and knick knacks that won't affect the game itself.

Before long, they start adding little things that do affect the game, potions and xp scrolls and the like.

Next comes the more significant things, skill lines, actual equipment and so forth, usually in the name of "convenience."

Sooner or later, the store will start to get more and more genuine Pay to Win merchandise, and demand will soar. When that happens, they will devote all their attention TO the store, and the rest of the game will be largely ignored.

They're on the path.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

How is this different from XP boost scrolls, potions, food buffs, horse riding skills?

Exactly the point I was making. They started with cosmetic things. Then added minor convenience things. Then added more significant, game changing things. Now we're getting skill lines. Eventually items to craft bleeding edge gear. Then the gear itself. Then exclusive store only gear... followed by the next generation of store only gear that makes the original stuff obsolete... and so on.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

The issue is this, at least in part. They put things on the store like this, that lets you ignore content.

Players then get abilities and equipment that took no effort, no GAME to acquire.

Having done nothing, they declare the game boring, and they leave, telling others how boring the game is.

Now, the bites are only a small thing, but it's a step further along the slippery slope. The concern many of us have is that they will continue the slide. More and more things will end up on the store "for convenience" and the game will deteriorate. Players will have nothing to do because everything will be on the store, and with nothing to do, players will leave the game.

We're not at that point yet, but the way is being paved.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

When the game first went free to play, I commented that eventually, the store would take priority over all else. We're starting to see it now.

Sometimes I hate being right all the time.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

The pricing is indeed rather excessive, if you ask me. I mean, 5000 crowns for a single recipe or costume? That's more than $50 in actual money. I can buy a WHOLE GAME for that.

Even lesser things, like character slots, are greatly overpriced. Again, 1500 crowns translates to nearly $20 Canadian, for ONE character slot. It's crazy expensive.

I fear they're pricing themselves out of the market, and will lose revenue as a result.

I mean, would you rather have one sale at 1500, or five sales at 500? This is the question they need to ask themselves.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

whitebeard00 wrote: »

Personally I have a huge problem paying for a subscription that is supposed to support the development and cover future updates and content, then when said content is released I have to pay for it. I don`t really care if ESO calls it a DLC or chapter or whatever else.

ZOS, if you are paying attention, the day Morrowind was announced I ended my subscription.

Subscriptions are not an investment. They should not intended to be paying for features or development yet to happen. They should be used only based on what they provide at the start of the subscription term. In this way, things are a lot less confusing, and a lot less prone to "surprise" when the course of development does not follow the projected "investment path".

Actually, that's EXACTLY what the subscription costs were about originally.

Back in the day, you would buy a game, and you got the WHOLE GAME. It was finished, polished, etc. If there was an addition, it would cost extra, and would itself be entirely self contained. Such additions would be fairly infrequent.

Then came the MMO, and the premise was that we would pay for the game and the subscription would allow for the ongoing addition of new content, more rapidly than large, occasional expansions would allow.

Then things began to change again. Developers realized they couldn't keep up with the demand for content, and the MMO evolved a bit further, becoming more of a sandbox. The premise here was that the player could engage themselves in the game without the need for frequent developer input. However, this ALSO began to change when the cash stores arrived on the scene.

Once MMOs started using microtransactions, the GAME started getting less and less attention, and the focus shifted again. No longer were MMOs sandboxes, they became "theme parks," where the game became more about buying the little knick knacks from the store than about DOING anything in the game.

ESO has fallen into this trap. They had started out so well, the game was delightfully detailed, and had (HAS) so much potential to step BACK to being more of a sandbox, more how the MMO was originally conceived. Unfortunately, they fell into the microtransaction trap, and more and more of the game is appearing there instead of IN THE GAME (as I predicted, unfortunately).

There's still time to turn this around, but I doubt they have the wherewithal to do it.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I would have NO problem paying for expansions if I didn't have to pay for damn near everything else. Want a house? There's no damn way to get the gold for one, gotta use the store. Oh, and it's $130. Want that cool outfit? Have to pay extra actual cash for that, it's only on the store. Want that crafting motif? Well, it has a 1 in a billion chance of dropping, so you'll pretty well have to buy it on the store, only $50.

If paying my subscription gave me these things, even better, if they were PART OF THE GAME, and not in the store, I'd be very happy to pay $50 for an expansion, such as we've been given for free in the past.

I've been really hoping to get back to Vvardenfell, so I'll likely be buying the expansion, but the nickel and diming is really tiresome. It's polluted every game I've played for the better part of a decade, and it's becoming too much to stomach.

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

I agree. The prices on the store are WAY over the top. There are many things I might have spent actual money on that I simply won't because they're so overpriced. It became especially notable when houses came out. They're so obnoxiously overpriced that I will NEVER pay for one, not with gold, and especially not with actual cash.

I've said this elsewhere, I'll say it here (and I predicted this when the store first came along)... I get that you want to make money, but think LONG TERM. Would you rather sell ONE house at $100 or 50 houses at $10 each? You make it more accessible, and more of them will sell. You've hedged what I expect is the majority right out of the market.

ALL store items need to be reduced in price, and drastically.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Hsst. @Morgha_Kul. Second and third quotes are the exact same post. Just FYI.

Morgha_Kul

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Hsst. @Morgha_Kul. Second and third quotes are the exact same post. Just FYI.

Whoops, my bad.

OrdoHermetica

Morgul667 wrote: »

Up to let our console friends know about this.... slots are not account wide. Beware

So, I know on PTS there was a disclaimer at some point in the purchasing process about it being per character, not account wide. Was that removed in live? For obvious reasons I haven't tested on live.

Elsonso

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Up to let our console friends know about this.... slots are not account wide. Beware

So, I know on PTS there was a disclaimer at some point in the purchasing process about it being per character, not account wide. Was that removed in live? For obvious reasons I haven't tested on live.

Outfit slots are character, not account, on all platforms, as far as I know.

Donari

lordrichter wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Up to let our console friends know about this.... slots are not account wide. Beware

So, I know on PTS there was a disclaimer at some point in the purchasing process about it being per character, not account wide. Was that removed in live? For obvious reasons I haven't tested on live.

Outfit slots are character, not account, on all platforms, as far as I know.

I think the question is whether or not there is still information available during the purchase process that it is only for one character, given the discussion about it being shady not to make that clear to buyers. I also have not tested this, nor will I.

OrdoHermetica

Donari wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Up to let our console friends know about this.... slots are not account wide. Beware

So, I know on PTS there was a disclaimer at some point in the purchasing process about it being per character, not account wide. Was that removed in live? For obvious reasons I haven't tested on live.

Outfit slots are character, not account, on all platforms, as far as I know.

I think the question is whether or not there is still information available during the purchase process that it is only for one character, given the discussion about it being shady not to make that clear to buyers. I also have not tested this, nor will I.

Correct. I know it's per character, not per account. However, there was a warning in PTS; it doesn't seem like there is on one the live version, or if there is, it's buried somewhere.

Elsonso

Warn people? That would be like ZOS saying, "don't buy this." You'll figure it out soon enough, after you buy one. Right?

MikkeOfGreenRiver

Lots of players will buy a Costume for use on only one character. An Outfit slot is essentially a changeable, custom costume that fills the same single-character purpose. Pricing the slot like a high-end Costume keeps the Outfit system from cannibalizing Costume sales too much. I don’t like it, and I don’t like the 1500 Crown cost. But I can see how they got there.

I’m not tempted to buy additional slots at this time. Perhaps if they expand the system to include clothing looks and a Hide option for all body pieces.

Velaethia

MikkeOfGreenRiver wrote: »

Lots of players will buy a Costume for use on only one character. An Outfit slot is essentially a changeable, custom costume that fills the same single-character purpose. Pricing the slot like a high-end Costume keeps the Outfit system from cannibalizing Costume sales too much. I don’t like it, and I don’t like the 1500 Crown cost. But I can see how they got there.

I’m not tempted to buy additional slots at this time. Perhaps if they expand the system to include clothing looks and a Hide option for all body pieces.

Costume are always account bound. Costumes also are custom appearances that can't be used with the outfit station. Thus they are 2 different features which different pros and cons for being used. They aren't likely to compete except for in ZoS imagination.

Morgul667

I wish ZOS would reconsider

heaven13

I honestly haven't even bothered making my first outfit in the free slot. Maybe eventually I will but knowing that if I enjoy the system and want to set up a second outfit I'd have to pay 1500 crowns for just one my characters has sucked away all of my excitement.

Anthony_Arndt

heaven13 wrote: »

I honestly haven't even bothered making my first outfit in the free slot. Maybe eventually I will but knowing that if I enjoy the system and want to set up a second outfit I'd have to pay 1500 crowns for just one my characters has sucked away all of my excitement.

I've had this on my mind a lot lately because I moved to Germany and have started fresh on the EU servers in anticipation of my son wanting his own account (and will probably want to play with his local friends).

If the system was reasonably priced, in line with other MMOs (like EA's SWTOR), I would buy at least 4 more slots for every character on both servers. I could see having outfits for adventuring, sneaking, PvP, and something casual for cities. At a minimum.

But at $13 per slot per character... that would be $52 per character.

And then I'd need at least another 4k gold per slot per character. And I don't grind enough to have that kind of cash. Even my main, started on day 1 of early access is still grinding just to get the bag and vault spaces unlocked on the NA servers... I am not looking forward to grinding out all the cash to repeat that on the EU servers.

So for now, I am sticking to the one free slot per character. And that is it. Every so often, I do run into town, play around with the Outfit Station, mix up something new... and then cancel out of it since there will never be a time it's worth as much as a character slot to create that one outfit.

Morgul667

I wish ZOS would reconsider

heaven13 wrote: »

I honestly haven't even bothered making my first outfit in the free slot. Maybe eventually I will but knowing that if I enjoy the system and want to set up a second outfit I'd have to pay 1500 crowns for just one my characters has sucked away all of my excitement.

Exactly the same here

And many people are in the same situation which is why zos is making a very bad move on this

Elsonso

Morgul667 wrote: »

I wish ZOS would reconsider

heaven13 wrote: »

I honestly haven't even bothered making my first outfit in the free slot. Maybe eventually I will but knowing that if I enjoy the system and want to set up a second outfit I'd have to pay 1500 crowns for just one my characters has sucked away all of my excitement.

Exactly the same here

And many people are in the same situation which is why zos is making a very bad move on this

They have no choice. The Tailors and Garment Workers Union demands that extra outfits have a high tariff to protect the workers making the costumes.

I was initially quite interested in this system, even with the limit of reusing known styles. Between the gold micro transaction to make the outfit and the Crown cost for extra outfit slots, most of my enthusiasm for the system has vanished. As it turned out, the gear I am wearing looks good enough, when stacked against the costs involved. I would be paying gold to create an outfit to match gear that I am currently wearing, in many cases.

So, in the end, over 20+ characters, and I have one complete outfit and one weapon outfit. Different characters, of course.

I certainly don't feel outfits are something that needs to be mentioned to new players.

OrdoHermetica

Morgul667 wrote: »

I wish ZOS would reconsider

heaven13 wrote: »

I honestly haven't even bothered making my first outfit in the free slot. Maybe eventually I will but knowing that if I enjoy the system and want to set up a second outfit I'd have to pay 1500 crowns for just one my characters has sucked away all of my excitement.

Exactly the same here

And many people are in the same situation which is why zos is making a very bad move on this

Yeah... I'm feeling this a little bit myself right now. Basically, with one outfit, you're kinda limited to one type of gear set. My stamplar, for example, uses 2H/bow in PvP with a mix of heavy and medium armor and DW/bow in PvE with medium armor. And I play both pretty regularly. So... I'm just sort of stuck with one set or the other looking bad.

I mean, I'm still glad I used my costume slot, and I'm certainly not about to spend $15 to unlock a costume slot for a single character (I'd need to spend a good $50 or so just to get a second outfit slots for all my toons that need them), but it's definitely more than a little annoying.

Wayshuba

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

Personally I think the price is crazy and won’t purchase a single slot unless they make it account wide and even then probably only one additional slot.

I bet there are a lot of players with the same attitude. I was going to purchase two extra slots per character (I have 12) when it launched or about 8,400 crowns worth. Instead at that price, I decided I am not buying any.

HungryMonkey007 wrote: »

However I would assume the outfit system costed a lot of money to develop so ZOS is going to recover that cost from the players that really want to use it. It seems out of balance with the price of the storage chests, but the storage chests is two fold. It makes owning a house more useful so might push some players towards purchasing one, and it is appealing to more players so they will sell more of them overall and will be able to recoup development costs faster. And the development cost of the storage chest system was probably peanuts compared to the complexity of outfit changes.

I personally believe ZoS's current CS pricing schema is losing them more money than it is making. As I mentioned above, how many people were going to buy slots and now are not versus those that bought them at 1500 Crowns. Let's say, for example, that for every person buying a slot at 1500 Crowns, 24 other people will not because of the price point. So ZoS made 1500 Crowns on it instead 8750 (if 25 people bought one slot at 350 Crowns). Which way made them more money?

The issue you have with outfit slots, as it recurs through this thread, is this is a staple in almost all MMOs. In other that have it, it is usually $2-$4 a slot and usually has an option to purchase with in game currency as well. SWTOR, for example, is 120CC (about $0.80) on one character or 300CC (about $2.50) ACCOUNT WIDE or 30k in game gold. How ZoS thought pricing an item with a defined market value at 1800% more than that value was a good thing is completely beyond me.