"Experience is the best teacher"

notyuu

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

Narvuntien

PVP is not about avoiding death. Its about dying at the right time in the right place.

I am not sure if you noticed the huge contridictions in your statements.

If you are outnumbered some enemy group is outnumbered somewhere else.

If defending is so hard why does fort taking never work?

Its time to step up your macro game you aren't in the right place.

Chakei

What platform

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not about avoiding death. Its about dying at the right time in the right place.

I am not sure if you noticed the huge contridictions in your statements.

If you are outnumbered some enemy group is outnumbered somewhere else.

If defending is so hard why does fort taking never work?

Its time to step up your macro game you aren't in the right place.

Which platfom/server/alliance are you on?

notyuu

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not about avoiding death. Its about dying at the right time in the right place.

I am not sure if you noticed the huge contridictions in your statements.

If you are outnumbered some enemy group is outnumbered somewhere else.

If defending is so hard why does fort taking never work?

Its time to step up your macro game you aren't in the right place.

maybe some others are not outnumbered, but for me...even when i'm in a group of 50+ players, I ended up finding an enemy group that still outnumbers us enough to kill us all

as for defending not working vs taking not working.. easy, nobody ever shows up to help defend...as I said, "fails due to lack of manpower"

and step up macro game? ok...how?

notyuu

Chakei wrote: »

What platform

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not about avoiding death. Its about dying at the right time in the right place.

I am not sure if you noticed the huge contridictions in your statements.

If you are outnumbered some enemy group is outnumbered somewhere else.

If defending is so hard why does fort taking never work?

Its time to step up your macro game you aren't in the right place.

Which platfom/server/alliance are you on?

PC/EU/AD-DC-EP [got chars in all three..they all share the same experience however]

teiselaise

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

I'm trying to learn pvp too at the moment, I have around 800 hours in pve (steam says that, I think I afk'd alot sometime) but pvp is a very different place, I had all your problems, if not more, what annoyed me the most and still does is the fact that some characters just can't die and somehow kills me in 3 seconds when I have full shields, no it's not lag, I have come a long way since I started and am regularly getting kills and sieges now

I don't know what class you play but I would definitely recommend getting a build that's sustainable, also learn your class, I personally play a melee magblade and when I realized there was a light armor shield I became way stronger, knowing how your enemies class works definitely help, I have only really played nightblade and Templar and I know for a fact that I'm way stronger than them, I struggle fighting all other classes. I don't know about your lvl buy stay out of the sub 50 campaign since there's filled with pro's trying to get an easy emperor or record 1vX montages.

But as much as it sucks to hear, experience is really the key, and being properly geared ofcourse. Hope it helps.

Taylor_MB

1)
So many people siege incorrectly
• Run multiple siege engines. 5 people can run 20 siege, there is no reason a keep should not be fully breached in a few minutes (largely before opposition can react).
• Hit non obvious targets if you are not running in a zerg, no point trying to take a front line keep with anything other then full force.
• Never stand in a breach. Always run behind the oppositions defensive siege, whether that is straight up the stairs, across the back pin and up the opposite stairs, or through the front door and straight to back pin. If you are solo, go for the oilers above the breach, they are the most vulnerable as they don't have defensive NPC's near them (apart from FD) and will have no defensive siege guarding their location.

2)
Being outnumbered is literally the only way to learn how to play and test the limits of your build. Outnumbered is good.

3)
It happens, check out my super serious guide to capping a resource. Often people are so starved for PvP (by stacking the winning faction), they'll zerg a resource without realising they are making the problem worse.

4)
It's very easy to pick squish targets and if you are consistently dying a lot then you probably need to wear a defensive set or preemptively use defensive abilities (shields, HoT's, blocking). All my PvP builds wear a defensive set.

5)
Defending is so hard because it's reactive, coordinated groups organise attacks, not sit around waiting to defend.
• Apart from a few people oiling, everyone needs to get the hell below and defend the breach, standing on the horseshoe does *** all. Fill everyone space with defensive siege and aim at or immediately around the breach.
• Coordination helps, but generally you need AoE hard CC's, AoE snares and AoE roots on the breach to kill people as they try to push (kill them inside where all your siege is aimed). Negates are a bonus.

Hope that helps!
but seriously, it is all about experience

Aisle9

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

Do you play in PC-EU Sotha Sil on DC, by any chance ?

Ok, so, here's a couple pointers:

1) If you cap a resource before sieging, people will know. If you're in a small group, first knock on the front door (ram it), then cap a res after the keep is under attack. If the keep is under attack people can't port to it, but if you cap a resource, people will know you're about to siege, or want to siege, therefore they will start porting in. There are a lot of people farming AP just by repairing walls, so a defense is actually desirable. If you decide to ram the front door, make sure you have at least 4 people, solid healing, and a couple of fire ballistae.

2) If you're in a Pug and you get hit by someone somehow organized, yes, the tactical advantage will be crushing, and even if you have more people, they will kill them easily.

3) See point 1.

4) That's what it looks like, from your perspective, but that only happens if you're standing in the front, or back of the group. If you're inside the group, that's only going to happen if the group is tightly clustered and your opponents are in a premade/organized group and have ultis ready... or if you're a snipe-spammer, personally I will always target snipe-spammers first, they irk me to no end. My teammates have fits when they see me running away, chasing the sniper around.

5) That's why you need to buy oil. Also, pro-tip: you don't have to wait for the siege to reset, place multiple siege, after you use one, go to the next, then the next, then the next, while the first is recharging, then repeat, that way you can hit multiple locations, or focus on a single one (the doors). If you're defending do not spam snipe or clench, buy oil, use oil.

Other than that, the best way to understand how you get killed is actually dying, a lot, and check the death recap. A guild can help, if you can find one, and playing with friends over voice also helps.

Playing in a zerg does not help in learning how to deal with situations, while playing solo is a long road, filled with frustration and some misconception, but it eventually make you a force to be reckoned with.

Hope this helps.
Have a nice day.

Turelus

I would recommend (if you haven't already) looking into other players who play your class and a guild which is mainly focused on PvP.

Knowing your own class and builds strengths and weaknesses will be a huge boon to you. There isn't a one build wins all build in ESO when it comes to Cyrodiil because of how unpredictable it is.

Decided what kind of gameplay you want within Cyrodiil. Are you interested in objectives and group play, skirmish PvP, solo or very small gang. Once you have this speak to others who do that kind of gameplay and see what advice they can give you.

Keeps sieges and defences are always more successful when in a group which communicates. You need to find groups which use comms (voice is much better than text) and are organised in what they're doing. Learn which siege weapons work best in which situations.

When you lose a fight, look at the death recap and look around you. Try to understand what you died to and if there was a counter to it. If it was just sheer numbers then realise you should have considered getting away sooner (note that living vs a zerg is still a victory, not just killing them all).

Most important of all I have said is GET A GUILD. The fastest way to learn is to play with others who have done all this before and can teach you what you need to know. However it should be noted that no one persons view of Cyrodiil is the correct one, finding a guild which plays the way you want is very important to enjoying Cyrodiil.

Chakei

notyuu wrote: »

Chakei wrote: »

What platform

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not about avoiding death. Its about dying at the right time in the right place.

I am not sure if you noticed the huge contridictions in your statements.

If you are outnumbered some enemy group is outnumbered somewhere else.

If defending is so hard why does fort taking never work?

Its time to step up your macro game you aren't in the right place.

Which platfom/server/alliance are you on?

PC/EU/AD-DC-EP [got chars in all three..they all share the same experience however]

I play on NA so I can't help you much with EU guilds, but my best advice is to find a guild. Cyrodil is super unforgiving and the learning curve is steep. Trying to do much and make a difference on your own is extremely difficult. You're always going to find the zone trolls and the people who are going to tell you to GIT GUD SON or L2P. Absorb their salt and build a shield with it. It makes you stronger in the end.

You're going to die a lot. No way around it. Even longtime players die (don't let them tell you otherwise). Impen gear is necessary. Depending on what class you play, it can be very difficult to run the same build in PVE/PVP. Easy AP gains include repping walls and healing until you get your feet under you. Sieging and defending require coordinated efforts and do work, but only when there are enough to do so. The way the scoring works right now makes defending blah to a lot of people.

Don't be disheartened, most players feel this way when they start in PVP (I definitely did and it still frustrates me after 3 years). You will find the people who can/want to help if you keep at it. There are some discords out there that are open to everyone to get some help and people on here can be helpful when they want to be (again, absorb the troll salt and make yourself stronger through it!). Good luck!

WuffyCerulei

Pvp was stressful for me at the beginning, but the more you play in Cyrodiil, the better you get. You'll die a lot. You'll be out-zerged. You'll be targetted. All that stuff. However, that's the apart of the charm of pvp. It's not always going to run smoothly. And at this point, I crack up when people want to get me specifically. I feel special! No one is going to rip you a new one for being scrubby in pvp, too. There may be the occasional buttwipe, but they're far and few inbetween.

Aisle9

Ah, btw, the smallest thing sometimes is the most helpful.

When you're defending, and the postern or main door is about to be breached, CCs are your best friends, especially roots. Caltrops can be spammed from afar and it will root people on the door, easy target for defensive siege (meatbags, fire ballistae, oil), so if the place is already filled with siege, and there's no room left, put down some CCs.

VaranisArano

First off, its not you. PVP has a significant learning curve and I definitely spent the first months going "why am I doing this?" Generally speaking, I had fun, but what kept me coming back to PVP was finding an organized group that I liked to run with.

Joy_Division has an excellent guide for PVP that does a lot of help explain the basics of Cyrodiil: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/360956/joy-s-advice-for-midyear-mayhem-event/p1

You've gotten a lot of advice on the subjects you asked about, so here's the advice I wish I'd gotten when I started to PVP.

1. Get tanky. Looking at builds for your class will help a lot, then on top of those recommendations, get tanky. You need to survive battles in order to learn anything so adding resistances or health will help with that. Currently, I can run my MagDK healer around the battlefield in light armor, but when I started, I ran her in Plague Doctor heavy armor so I could actually survive long enough to learn what worked and what didn't. So wear Impenetrable trait armor (no sense in letting the enemy crit you), and get tanky.

2. Stay aware of your surroundings. You'll be tanky enough to take a few hits, but you don't want to be the first in the line of fire. Let someone else do that. Pay attention to how your group is moving. When I run with a zerg, as a healer I'm trying to stay in the back, or as a DPS I'm trying to stay with the group. I never want to get caught out in front on my own (at least unless the whole group is getting rushed and killed and then my death is inevitable.) If there's an organized group of the enemy, stay away from them.

3. On a defense, siege away. Siege like oils and fire ballistas are a great way to help out a defensive siege. If you are trying to capture a keep, I...I feel really bad for giving this advice, okay? Don't siege unless your teammates are sieging. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to Bleakers, thrown down siege only to be the only one sieging and the porch gets wiped a minute later because my fellow EP can't be bothered to siege up. If your teammates are sieging, by all means, siege with them. If they aren't and they just want to fight, fight with them and don't waste your AP. If you don't have siege, guard the siege line by harassing the enemies that are trying to harass the siegers.

Nestor

You should also consider joining a PvP Guild. Most of them will take the time to show you the ropes. Reading about it on the forums is one thing, and some good tips have been provided here, but learning while doing it much better.

Apache_Kid

Im sure someone said above but find a PvP guild for your alliance. I was absolutely terrible until I joined one. Lots of helpful people if it's anything like my guild. They will sort you out.

kylewwefan

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

It’s very difficult to siege a fort by yourself. A battering ram takes at least 3 people to operate.

It always feels like you’re outnumbered or outskilled by OP groups.

They really don’t care about your scroll; they’re farming you.

Healers and squishy get targeted for sure.

Defending blows. Even if you are successful, the small Defense tick isn’t worth much.

Inarre

notyuu wrote: »

Chakei wrote: »

What platform

Narvuntien wrote: »

PVP is not about avoiding death. Its about dying at the right time in the right place.

I am not sure if you noticed the huge contridictions in your statements.

If you are outnumbered some enemy group is outnumbered somewhere else.

If defending is so hard why does fort taking never work?

Its time to step up your macro game you aren't in the right place.

Which platfom/server/alliance are you on?

PC/EU/AD-DC-EP [got chars in all three..they all share the same experience however]

Maybe you're not really outnumbered if your characters in all of the alliances are outnumbered

Ragnarock41

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

you just described how its to play on PC EU, sotha sil - DC.

Fix? go to vivec, you longer have to 1v100.

VaranisArano

The other parts of your rant are a little higher level having to do with tactics and playing the map, rather than staying alive in the fight. I wouldn't really worry about this too much while you are working on survival, but I did want to address some of it because some of this is very hard to see during the heat of battle but is nevertheless important to know about Cyrodiil.

1: sieging a fort never works
Generally speaking, if you are sieging a fort along the emp ring, the enemy knew you were coming. Certain map movements are predictable. If DC captures Bleakers, EP can expect that DC will soon be pouring through the milegate to Chalman. If EP captures Bleakers, DC figures they'll be hitting Aleswell soon. Same for the Blue Road Keep-Sejanus-Alessia corridor. Some things are pretty predictable.
Organized groups, often run by guilds, can break up that predictability easier than disorganized players. So let's say you are fighting at the Alessia Bridge, an organized group of AD might strike EP at Drakelowe Keep rather than staying on the emp ring.
Certain siege spots are also predictable. For example, you can siege Fort Aleswell from the front door, but EP most often sieges Aleswell from the farm side wall because its the easiest spot to fight if you are coming from Bleakers outpost. Alessia front door is a common place to if you are coming from the bridge, except that place has the name "Hamburger Hill" for a reason and it'd be far more effective to siege from the mine or farm side walls, which you'll sometimes see organized groups doing. The more predictable a siege spot, the easier it is for defenders to drive off attackers, assuming comparable numbers.

2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
Generally speaking, yes. The majority of every faction's players stay on the emp ring, those keeps around Imperial City. So if you are fighting there, you can expect to face a lot of opposition. If you are a part of an organized raid that is striking away from the emp ring, you can expect that another organized raid from the enemy faction will pull off and come fight you. If you beat them, they'll call for back up and eventually, most fights end with one side or the other bringing overwhelming force to bear.
Most organized raids prefer to fight outnumbered against disorganized players or with other organized raids, simply because using organized players against less than that number of disorganized players is a slaughter and not much fun.

3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource

On PC, there's a addon called CyroHUD that tells players when a resource is flagged, no doubt there are others as well. So whether is that group cleaning up resources or another part of the enemy force, people know about it pretty quickly. You've got a better chance flipping resources on keeps that you think don't have defenders sitting on hem, but its still taking a risk.

4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you

It definitely feels that way.

5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

Yep! Lack of reinforcements is the easiest way to lose a defense. But when those reinforcements do show up, it can be pretty glorious.
First, how to get reinforcements. Call out enemy movements. If its a raid rolling up on the front door, call out a raid on the front door. Once that door/wall hits 50%, the keep is flagged and no one can port in to help you. They can ride, but if there's a full raid and the wall is dropping fast, they may not have time to ride. So early call outs helps.
Second, be cautious with sieging. You can slow down a group a lot by pouring oils on the outer, but its also riskier that you won't make it to the inner. If you are practically alone, you'll have to decide on how much risk you want to take.
Third, if you are still alone by the time the enemy is on the flags, you can hide in the keep or make a valiant last stand. You did your part and your alliance didn't show up. The loss of the keep isn't your fault in the slightest.
If you aren't practically alone, support your allies with siege and push if you feel comfortable. There are people who will say "push when your allies push to support them." I'm more cautious when I play solo, so I'd only push if you feel comfortable and otherwise use siege.


Overall, none of this is that important until you can survive comfortably in combat. Playing the map is something that comes with practice. The basics of it go like this:
1. The vast majority of players fight around the emp ring. That's where you can find constant fights over the more important objectives. You'll see both organized and disorganized groups of players.
2. Organized groups do most of the fighting off of the emp ring. Whether that's striking deep into the enemy back-field or recapturing the out-of-the way home keeps, this is mostly done by organized groups. If an enemy is striking at one of your home keeps in the back field, an organized raid from your faction might pull off the emp ring to go fight them or they might not (it depends entirely on how your faction's raid operate).
3. Zergs happen when one or more organized raids meets up with a bunch of disorganized players to capture/defend an important objective. It's not very fun to fight against, but it doesn't happen deliberately as much as it is a natural consequence of certain objectives being important at that time.

Prof_Bawbag

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

That makes no sense. Not everyone can have that experience as it's impossible for everyone to be targetted first.

VaranisArano

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

That makes no sense. Not everyone can have that experience as it's impossible for everyone to be targetted first.

Practically speaking, no. Does it sometimes feel like that? Yeah. (Unless you're snipe-spamming or an obvious healer, in which case the enemy might well be targeting you...)

I'm gonna give him a break on that one. When I started to PVP, it sure felt like I was always the first to die. Probably because I was brand new to PVP, fresh out of being a PVE-only player who mained a tankso I was like "dodge-roll, why would I need to dodge-roll?" I got better, but those first attempts at PVP did not go smoothly is what I'm saying.

badmojo

notyuu wrote: »

1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

1. Only ride out to a siege when the keep is tagged. Most sieges fail prior to tagging the keep, so I wouldnt bother going until its tagged unless you are leading a group.
2. Learn when to retreat. If you are being overwhelmed then fall back and defend whatever objective is behind you.
3. If the faction is focused on a single objective you can bet there are players watching the map just waiting to quickly react to anything. Because if nobody defends during those times you can lose a lot really quickly.
4. Ranged abilities are king in Cyrodiil. Put points into the alliance war passive that extends range. Your sweet spot in an open field battle is just within range of the enemy so you can quickly dodgeroll back if you start to get overwhelmed. My usual tactic is to be annoying and kite the enemy into range of the friendlies around me. As long as the enemies are dying I dont really care if I deal the killing blow. Alliance before the self, its warfare.
5. Yes defending can suck. Focus more o delaying their progress than trying to outright stop them. If you slow them down enough your alliance might show up and wipe them. Oils and other siege are great as well as ranged AOE. Some non-ranged AOE even work good, for example you can cast wall of elements onto the mesh above a keep door and it will appear down on the ground below.

If you are new I would recommend healing. Stick near the rear and observe everything. See how other people deal with the enemy and work with the group.

The map is the most important part of Cyrodiil. Get Miats addon, not for the combat alerts, but the 3d markers and ovjective health bars greatly improve your situational awareness. Its all about being in the right spot doing the right thing...combat skills will come over time. Being the best fighter in Cyrodiil wont help if your not doing the right things at the right time.

Hurtfan

As someone who hopped right into PvP from the get-go without knowing 1 thing about it, like mentioned, you will die a lot. You get used to it and realize that most of the time it's not a big deal. Try hard not to get discouraged when you get killed, once you start getting the hang of it, you will have some really good/fun days.

Echoing another poster, unfortunately it is about experience. Make sure you pay attention to your damage numbers if you're a DD for example and when you get killed, look at what killed you. You will learn a ton that way.

Ruckly

If you want inspiration for Cyrodiil PVP you can read Volume 2 Book 1(Waterloo) of Les Miserables. Or you can watch the movie. Or Catapults are good.

Sylphie

Since people are already giving advice on how to learn to play the map in Cyrodiil, I'll add onto some points on how to learn the combat mechanics in PvP.

1. Duel lots of players in main city hubs. You're most likely going to get stomped by people with higher CP, better builds and more experience but I find that 1v1s are a great way to learn your class, even more so if you get people to give you feedback in your duels.

2. Do BGs if you have Morrowind to further learn your class mechanics. While BGs isn't the best representation of open world PvP, it's a good place to learn how to PvP outside of dueling, especially if you ignore the objectives and aim for 1v1s and 1v2s.

3. Join a guild of players that know what they're doing.

I was a fairly casual player when I first started and spent most of my time zerg surfing without a clue on how the mechanics worked while not really enjoying pvp that much. It was only after I decided to properly learn my class through 200+ duels and finding a group of like minded players did I really start having fun in pvp.

Joy_Division

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

1. Sieging never works. If you attack the next obvious target (i.e. the closest enemy keep next to your own alliance), there are going to be a lot of defenders waiting there. It can work, but will probably take a "zerg" to be successful.
2. You're group is always outnumbered. Similar to gradma's "back in my day we walked up hills both ways to school" selective memory. People only remember the times they get zerged down and ignore the times they zerg other people down. A more scientific explanation is related to the above point. If you just go to the next enemy keep where there are a lot of defenders, eventually you will get outnumbered because they have instant respawn whereas your alliance does not.
3. Enemy all over you at a resource. See #1. At the next enemy keep there are many defenders waiting and all of them will come out because capturing a resource is 1.5K AP. If you go to a backline keep resource, then it's just you so even two players will seem overwhelming. If you poke a resource, you're probably going to be outnumbered, just the way it is. That's fine. Being outnumbered helps you become a better player.
4. Always targeted first. Difference between being targeted first and dying first. I'll tell you this. If anyone is using a sword and shield and standing in the front, I will *not* target them. Anyone spamming snipe or heavy lightning attacks behind the "tanks" I will target and these players often die quickly because they are unaccustomed to being defending themselves. Point 2: On these forums you may hear a lot of people whining about "heavy armor block meta unkillable tanks," but players are extremely easy to kill very fast. If you are under 60% health, which can happen in just a single second from another player (animation cancel, skill, damage enchant all hit you at same time), you are endanger of being executred the next second. At soon as you are targeted, react and do something.
5. Defending is incredibly hard. If your alliance does not heed warning of 50 enemy players at a keep, you're going to get overwhelmed. That being said, equal number of defenders should beat equal number of attackers.

Im_MegaDeath

Im just gonna say it.......................... L2P Issue ^_^

notyuu

"notyuu wrote: »

"get told "just learn them from experience"

Im_MegaDeath wrote: »

Im just gonna say it.......................... L2P Issue ^_^

Because apparently reading is hard

xeNNNNN

td;lr I think joydivision did a better job condensing what I was trying too say but then I do love procrastination so read below if you wish;

When you siege a keep alone or with very few people takes a long time, its rare that it actually works and you get the keep on a pop locked server, it usually only serves as a distraction for the enemy faction as your own faction will be pushing somewhere else. Some just do it for trolling purposes however. The fastest way I know of to get a keep tagged for these puposes is 1 ram and 3-4 or more regular Ballista. Multi sieging (one person placing many sieges instead of just one per siege weapon) is very effective especially when other players refuse to buy their own sieges too "save" what little AP they have.

Being outnumbered; well numbers doesnt always mean victory ive lost count how many times ive seen an overwhelming force of enemies get crushed by a coordinated group and sometimes not even coordinated just a bunch of random people charging the enemy. Timing, prep and movement are all important too this. Sometimes though, sometimes its just best too not engage at all and back off. This is a learning curve many have so dont worry about that, it comes with time.

Being targeted first is just bad luck, happens too me with stun spams and shooting star ults, jaevalin, ayee take your pick if its a cc and damages and its a hard cc then ive been hit by it. Sometimes multiple times or all at once. They will tunnel on whoever is the closest, others will just spam buttons in the direction they're facing and get lucky and hit you instead of someone else. it happens.

Resources well, if you really want too mess with the enemy dont take resources close too your territory take ones far away, if your EP then Warden mine or glade mine for example. Half the time nobody bothers too look that deep on the map apart from EP seeing as kings is always blue on EU vivec, am i rite smurfs?

Defending is luck of the draw, sometimes you have enough sometimes you dont. A good defense is usually indicated by outer sieges and oils set up too push them back so you can push out if you can or if they break through the inner door or posterns oils are set up inside to drop on the breaches, meat back on th backflags etc and if people jump in with destro ults or other things too push the enemy back this is usually followed up by the defenders zerging their way out. Negates on the breaches from sorcs are extremely helpful against attacking zergs as well. Negate is actually a must AGAINST coordinated groups.

Its only lost if their healers are more than yours and better. It really boils down too numbers and positioning in defense. If the attackers are just too many then its fine you wont hold unless you get reinforced, you can always retake it. It really just depends on the things mentioned above. you'll get there eventually

Hope some of that helps. Even if it does seem like its a bit more of a ramble than "help" haha.

SugaComa

notyuu wrote: »

yes, it's a rant...but i need to get this off my chest

literally every single time i go to cyrodil and try to take part in anything, I end up getting crushed horribly due to well.. the sheer lack of newb friendliness of the advanced mechanics which apparently literally every single other player there has mastered..and every time I inquire to get some assistance on the matter, i'm either brushed off immediately or get told "just learn them from experience" so going off that logic thread...

what i have learned from my time in cyrodil
1: sieging a fort never works
2: your group is always outnumbered... yes even if there's 50 of you
3: the enemy busy defending a scroll holding fort at the other end of the map will be all over you within 5 seconds so poking a resource
4: you will always be targeted out and killed first regardless of how many others are there with you
5: defending is incredibly hard..and most of the time outright fails due to a lack of manpower/support

so... anybody out there care to actually provide me with a hand in..fixing these issues, so the lessons learned are of a more...positive nature?
I mean surely I can't be the only one suffering like this...right?

Communication,

Play in a group, stratagise , plan , execute

Ensure the execution is coordinated and you've pretty much managed to handle 90% of the hardest problems you will face

Last 10% does come from experience and you get that as you work on the other things

CatchMeTrolling

Its a bit more than just experience, there's player's that's been on this game for year's as dedicated pvp player's and they aren't even average.

Why? That's because zerging doesn't really teach you anything. If you want to learn more find someone or a small group 1-4 maybe 1-6 that combat larger groups. You'll be forced to learn from your mistakes and get an idea of what to do from the better players around you. Trust me, I've seen people go from potato to top tier.