MAGPLAR PVP build advice.

Brutusmax1mus

Minno wrote: »

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Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Rattle cage is gimping yourself. Trans/ reposte/ willpower front bar / skoria or blood spawn, tristat everything except shield on back bar is my set up atm. Got some clips of you wanna see it in action, just message me.

1 hotd on an ally and you become the focus. So get ready.

Mist form is essential for open world, especially if your partners are faster/ higher mobility than you (which they will)

I see so few magplars running masters destro front bar

Haven't gotten a lightning staff yet, have 4 ice staves. Not sure how I'd fit reach on my bar anyway other than giving up pots or relying on teammates. I need entropy.

what's your bar setup right now?

Depends on what I'm doing but typically it's
Dw: bane, jabs, toppling(this is what id likely replace, but would make me change to speed pots over tripots), mage light, mist/ radiant/purifying (depending on focus)
Snb: channeled, entropy, cleansing ritual, hotd, purifying/ mist

Kartalin

@Brutusmax1mus
If you’re using mage light for the major prophecy buff, you’re already getting that from bane. I know it’s good extra magicka and the mages guild passives are nice but you have a bit of redundancy there. If you’re not using skoria then maybe switch out bane instead.

Brutusmax1mus

Kartalin wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus
If you’re using mage light for the major prophecy buff, you’re already getting that from bane. I know it’s good extra magicka and the mages guild passives are nice but you have a bit of redundancy there. If you’re not using skoria then maybe switch out bane instead.

Isn't banes buff only on your next spell? Hardly redundant of it only impacts 1 cast. Would be if its extended. I use it for owning stealth as well.

Lexxypwns

@Brutusmax1mus reach goes in place of your hard CC

Brutusmax1mus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus reach goes in place of your hard CC

I understand, just a gap closer/cc is great for supporting my teammates (wife mostly) who often a quick stun/ body block(toppling gets me where i need to be effectively. Suits my needs well, i know its not great.

I just haven't given it a shot. Have any footage?

Lexxypwns

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

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Lexxypwns wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus reach goes in place of your hard CC

I understand, just a gap closer/cc is great for supporting my teammates (wife mostly) who often a quick stun/ body block(toppling gets me where i need to be effectively. Suits my needs well, i know its not great.

I just haven't given it a shot. Have any footage?

I’ll try to get some. Basically you get the same CC to break up pressure without getting out of position though. BoL has a pretty huge range so I prefer to use the ranged CC in that situation. I almost always play without gap closers on most specs

However, I’m just OK at magplar outside of support roles so I struggle with recovering if I put myself in bad position and that influences choice of weapons

Kartalin

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

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Kartalin wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus
If you’re using mage light for the major prophecy buff, you’re already getting that from bane. I know it’s good extra magicka and the mages guild passives are nice but you have a bit of redundancy there. If you’re not using skoria then maybe switch out bane instead.

Isn't banes buff only on your next spell? Hardly redundant of it only impacts 1 cast. Would be if its extended. I use it for owning stealth as well.

I know it doesn't just buff your next spell, but I wasn't sure about its duration either. Here's a quick video I put together, you can track the dot timer on my ability bar and compare that to the buff timer in the lower right.

https://youtu.be/ncZjB4cyycY

Since I use Reflective Light which has a duration of 6.5 seconds, you can see my Major Prophecy uptime is equal to that. You would have to test out Vampire's Bane but I suspect it will be the longer duration to match the morph.

Useful information at least. You see that I have inner light slotted as well but this is my PVE build equipped in the video.

Brutusmax1mus

Kartalin wrote: »

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Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

@Brutusmax1mus
If you’re using mage light for the major prophecy buff, you’re already getting that from bane. I know it’s good extra magicka and the mages guild passives are nice but you have a bit of redundancy there. If you’re not using skoria then maybe switch out bane instead.

Isn't banes buff only on your next spell? Hardly redundant of it only impacts 1 cast. Would be if its extended. I use it for owning stealth as well.

I know it doesn't just buff your next spell, but I wasn't sure about its duration either. Here's a quick video I put together, you can track the dot timer on my ability bar and compare that to the buff timer in the lower right.

https://youtu.be/ncZjB4cyycY

Since I use Reflective Light which has a duration of 6.5 seconds, you can see my Major Prophecy uptime is equal to that. You would have to test out Vampire's Bane but I suspect it will be the longer duration to match the morph.

Useful information at least. You see that I have inner light slotted as well but this is my PVE build equipped in the video.

Cast it and then cast blockade. Does the timer stay?

Brutusmax1mus

I just tested, or stays! Could have sworn the verbiage used to say on your next spell you cast

Brutusmax1mus

Opened new doors

Brutusmax1mus

@Lexxypwns just got the staff with that last run. I'll give it a shot, seems like it'll play a lot like my sorc which makes me think i should just get on my sorc lol

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Opened new doors

crit buffs for vamps bane/reflective light match the durations.

Vamps bane gets over 11 seconds, but is single target.

Reflective light can hit 3 targets, but the crit buff is 6 seconds. The initial hit is also a little bit higher than vamps bane (not by much).

I prefer inner light/crit pots over either of these. One less buff to cast = less clunky templar (especially when you are trying to time all your attacks in 6 seconds, line up your sweeps, make sure you arent taking extra dmg while in sweeps channel, and make sure you aren't stuck in a zergline.

Frost Reach > gap closer. It gives you an extra tool to get close to your target AND escape. It also burns stamina on your target because they always roll dodge and the good ones that save their stamina allow you to get behind and spam sweeps. And IT IGNORES CC IMMUNITY PLUS PROVIDES A DOT FOR SKORIA PROCS! Slot it, you'll forget templars had a gap closer.

Waffennacht

I've been using Caluurion, Zaan, Transmutation

Frost reach, backlash, accelerated drain, dampen, dark flare

HotD, Ritual, Rune, Healing Ward, Entropy

Brutusmax1mus

Minno wrote: »

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Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Opened new doors

crit buffs for vamps bane/reflective light match the durations.

Vamps bane gets over 11 seconds, but is single target.

Reflective light can hit 3 targets, but the crit buff is 6 seconds. The initial hit is also a little bit higher than vamps bane (not by much).

I prefer inner light/crit pots over either of these. One less buff to cast = less clunky templar (especially when you are trying to time all your attacks in 6 seconds, line up your sweeps, make sure you arent taking extra dmg while in sweeps channel, and make sure you aren't stuck in a zergline.

Frost Reach > gap closer. It gives you an extra tool to get close to your target AND escape. It also burns stamina on your target because they always roll dodge and the good ones that save their stamina allow you to get behind and spam sweeps. And IT IGNORES CC IMMUNITY PLUS PROVIDES A DOT FOR SKORIA PROCS! Slot it, you'll forget templars had a gap closer.

Are you saying it only gives major prophecy over those vamp/ reflective hits? That's not what i found testing.

Playing with it now, actually. I haven't played with my templar for a while. But it's a much different play style from what im used to on my templar.

I'm gonna go back to trifood and use elemental drain, hope it'll be enough. Right now I've got barrage, reach, drain, sweeps, bane on. It opens up more for group play too with blockade. It'll be some fun. Still feels like in trying to be a sorc.

Brutusmax1mus

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

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Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Opened new doors

crit buffs for vamps bane/reflective light match the durations.

Vamps bane gets over 11 seconds, but is single target.

Reflective light can hit 3 targets, but the crit buff is 6 seconds. The initial hit is also a little bit higher than vamps bane (not by much).

I prefer inner light/crit pots over either of these. One less buff to cast = less clunky templar (especially when you are trying to time all your attacks in 6 seconds, line up your sweeps, make sure you arent taking extra dmg while in sweeps channel, and make sure you aren't stuck in a zergline.

Frost Reach > gap closer. It gives you an extra tool to get close to your target AND escape. It also burns stamina on your target because they always roll dodge and the good ones that save their stamina allow you to get behind and spam sweeps. And IT IGNORES CC IMMUNITY PLUS PROVIDES A DOT FOR SKORIA PROCS! Slot it, you'll forget templars had a gap closer.

Are you saying it only gives major prophecy over those vamp/ reflective hits? That's not what i found testing.

Playing with it now, actually. I haven't played with my templar for a while. But it's a much different play style from what im used to on my templar.

I'm gonna go back to trifood and use elemental drain, hope it'll be enough. Right now I've got barrage, reach, drain, sweeps, bane on. It opens up more for group play too with blockade. It'll be some fun. Still feels like in trying to be a sorc.

Ignores cc immunity?

Minno

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

show previous quotes

Minno wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Opened new doors

crit buffs for vamps bane/reflective light match the durations.

Vamps bane gets over 11 seconds, but is single target.

Reflective light can hit 3 targets, but the crit buff is 6 seconds. The initial hit is also a little bit higher than vamps bane (not by much).

I prefer inner light/crit pots over either of these. One less buff to cast = less clunky templar (especially when you are trying to time all your attacks in 6 seconds, line up your sweeps, make sure you arent taking extra dmg while in sweeps channel, and make sure you aren't stuck in a zergline.

Frost Reach > gap closer. It gives you an extra tool to get close to your target AND escape. It also burns stamina on your target because they always roll dodge and the good ones that save their stamina allow you to get behind and spam sweeps. And IT IGNORES CC IMMUNITY PLUS PROVIDES A DOT FOR SKORIA PROCS! Slot it, you'll forget templars had a gap closer.

Are you saying it only gives major prophecy over those vamp/ reflective hits? That's not what i found testing.

Playing with it now, actually. I haven't played with my templar for a while. But it's a much different play style from what im used to on my templar.

I'm gonna go back to trifood and use elemental drain, hope it'll be enough. Right now I've got barrage, reach, drain, sweeps, bane on. It opens up more for group play too with blockade. It'll be some fun. Still feels like in trying to be a sorc.

bane gives you the buff regardless of if it hits ("upon activation, gain x crit"). but it lasts only for the duration of the dot.

frost reach ignores cc immunity, because its a root not a hard cc. Roll dodge does give players root immunity, and they can dodge the frost reach if they are in the middle of a roll dodge.

Datolite

Rattlecage should only be used if you're trying to save gold. Otherwise, to have sustainable burst as a magplar, IMO you should use spell power pots.

Drop inner Light. Drop Entropy. Instead go for burst skills (Purifying Light, Meteor, etc.) and pop that spell pot. It ain't cheap but it's a guaranteed boost that will give you the advantage you need.

I used to run a variant of the following in BGs...

Julianos, Shackle, Skoria for glass cannon.

Shackle, Pariah, Troll King for heal tank.

Also worth incorporating: Wizard's Riposte, Durok's, Spinner's, Transmutation. Just tweak your sustain/defense/DPS and try to balance with mundus, food and enchants wherever you're a bit short.

Joy_Division

What I've settled on:

5 Wizard's (use 2 swords)
5 Overwhelming
2 Skoria
2 Asylum Sword and Board

Damage is steady and constant, with lots of random bursts. Even get enough KBs to look impressive on a BGs final tally.

I think the issue with templars is not what gear they run, but their skills. This is the only class whose skills do not fit all situations and actually work against each other rather than having any synergy between them. Example: Eclipse, Javelin, and Sweeps are all at cross purposes with each other. If you javelin, the Eclipse wont work and the target gets knocked out of range of your Sweeps. No other class has to worry about such nonesnse.

With that in mind, I bar:

Charge, Sweeps, Total Dark, Reflective light, Purifying Light [Dawnbreaker]
Defensive Posture, Channeled Focus, Extended Ritual, Honor the Dead, Structured entropy [Bats]

I don;t use Mist Form because I think Blobsky is right about that skill. There are 2 or 3 times a night I think back and say Mist Form could have prevented me from dying. But it's just that, 2 or 3 times a night. In every other fight, Defensive Posture is making me a more effective combatant. Plus, you will become a better player by forcing yourself to fight in difficult situations rather than just misting away.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I've settled on:

5 Wizard's (use 2 swords)
5 Overwhelming
2 Skoria
2 Asylum Sword and Board

Damage is steady and constant, with lots of random bursts. Even get enough KBs to look impressive on a BGs final tally.

I think the issue with templars is not what gear they run, but their skills. This is the only class whose skills do not fit all situations and actually work against each other rather than having any synergy between them. Example: Eclipse, Javelin, and Sweeps are all at cross purposes with each other. If you javelin, the Eclipse wont work and the target gets knocked out of range of your Sweeps. No other class has to worry about such nonesnse.

With that in mind, I bar:

Charge, Sweeps, Total Dark, Reflective light, Purifying Light [Dawnbreaker]
Defensive Posture, Channeled Focus, Extended Ritual, Honor the Dead, Structured entropy [Bats]

I don;t use Mist Form because I think Blobsky is right about that skill. There are 2 or 3 times a night I think back and say Mist Form could have prevented me from dying. But it's just that, 2 or 3 times a night. In every other fight, Defensive Posture is making me a more effective combatant. Plus, you will become a better player by forcing yourself to fight in difficult situations rather than just misting away.

I agree with this. Templars do need a way to deal with powerful instant cast abilities, which is why buffs like major evasion/dodge roll and actual reflect spells work so well.

A few more downsides to mist form as a Templar,:
- you can't heal while in it (locks you out of your "hots" so you can't passively heal)
- you can't block and then block cast
- you can't use any channel (defensive or offensive)
- and costs more than BoL (when you account for the Regen lock and the fact you have to cast BoL afterwards anyway)
- can't Sprint to stack major expedition with Sprint speed for mobilty

A few other downsides to using javelin:
- highly reflective
- highly dodgable
- mag morph deals more DMG at range but you don't have a way to be at max range.

But the time you reposition with mist form and cast javelin, your purfying light window is gone.

And Templars have too many short timers to keep track of. 6 seconds reflective light, 6 seconds purifing light, 4 seconds Unstable Core, 6 seconds solar barrage, etc

By the time you cast them all, you will see a more clunky Templar than one that gives up a timer or two for now consistent timers. That's why your bars are perfect! Dawnbreaker+purfying light+total dark+sweeps can be AC together in a line so that your letting sweeps fill in at the end. The Dawnbreaker stun works well with total dark, because you can let one cast fly while your stun is charging and get another total dark after the cc immunity wears off (more flexible stun).

CatchMeTrolling

I’ve even saying you don’t need mist form once you learn how to turtle, plus mist form can be so inconsistent or unreliable. Plus, I actually dislike vamp now, only one of my Templars is one.

The problem with Templar is it’s too clunky of a class and against certain classes and players it really shows. As far as rotation it’s one of the classes you have to precise or you have to start all over.

Against a decent player this will be often. Great place g stompers though.

PenguinInACan

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don;t use Mist Form because I think Blobsky is right about that skill. There are 2 or 3 times a night I think back and say Mist Form could have prevented me from dying. But it's just that, 2 or 3 times a night. In every other fight, Defensive Posture is making me a more effective combatant. Plus, you will become a better player by forcing yourself to fight in difficult situations rather than just misting away.

I think mist form adds some very good utility to a build after you are already comfortable with defensive positioning (not running away). Depending on the situation and pressure it can provide a very good stamina supplement. Sometimes mist forming through a burst/root/CC combo conserves more resources than shielding/blocking/rolling/healing. Even with a decent stam pool (15k) you have a smaller window to play defensively, punish a mistake, and then return to a potentially defensive position IMO. I also find mist very effective at re-positioning for a charge/purifying/meteor burst combo. This is especially effective when already in melee range with sweeps building up purifying light. For one of the only classes without a root, being able to have the option to a)cleanse a root, b)roll, or c)mist form, leaves a lot of versatility in an otherwise non-mobile class. (as opposed to having a root, where you could mitigate the potential burst with your own roots).

I do however agree that just adding mist form to a new build will only hinder your growth through the build. If someone thinks mist form will make or break their setup, they need to re-evaluate their goals for the build altogether.

Brutusmax1mus

Mist form is not amazing for running away, but it is certainly the best for repositioning with los that a templar has. You can't be rooted or stunned, even unblockable stuns, those are huge positives. There's no way defensive posture/ritual will help you reposition better.

Repositioning is more important in out numbered play than holding your ground unless youre fighting unequally skilled opponents.

Mist is drastically less effective without los around however.

I always run mist in cyro, rarely in bgs, never on duels.

CatchMeTrolling

Honestly if you’re worried about repositioning yourself run immovable speed pots, most Templars run tanky setups anyways so they go hand and hand. I learned how to play without mist or a gap closer on my Templar, haven’t used either since like 2016. Only time I’ll definitely slot mist is if I’m emperor because then it becomes a necessity.

And often in open world trying to run solo Templar is also about reading the situation, I don’t think you should try to engage or bait anyone if you don’t have anything to los with. A simple tree will make huge difference. Plus, there’s bunny hopping , a lot of people think it’s stupid but it actually lets you reposition yourself without losing the flow of combat, easy animation canceling/bar swap canceling and can still block too.

Minno

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Honestly if you’re worried about repositioning yourself run immovable speed pots, most Templars run tanky setups anyways so they go hand and hand. I learned how to play without mist or a gap closer on my Templar, haven’t used either since like 2016. Only time I’ll definitely slot mist is if I’m emperor because then it becomes a necessity.

And often in open world trying to run solo Templar is also about reading the situation, I don’t think you should try to engage or bait anyone if you don’t have anything to los with. A simple tree will make huge difference. Plus, there’s bunny hopping , a lot of people think it’s stupid but it actually lets you reposition yourself without losing the flow of combat, easy animation canceling/bar swap canceling and can still block too.

I use jumping sometimes as a visual metronome, so I can count debuff/buff timers prior to engaging in melee.

Datolite

Joy_Division wrote: »

What I've settled on:

With that in mind, I bar:

Charge, Sweeps, Total Dark, Reflective light, Purifying Light [Dawnbreaker]
Defensive Posture, Channeled Focus, Extended Ritual, Honor the Dead, Structured entropy [Bats]

I wish I could have your patience. I used to run almost this exact setup but got tired of having to cast 4 skills before even engaging anyone, and repeating every 3-4 rotations. It's pure tedium to me, especially with focus being stationary. Hell I gave it up entirely on my stamplar and just went Chudan for the ward/resolve lol.

Anyway, mad respect to the dedicated magplar.

Joy_Division

datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

What I've settled on:

With that in mind, I bar:

Charge, Sweeps, Total Dark, Reflective light, Purifying Light [Dawnbreaker]
Defensive Posture, Channeled Focus, Extended Ritual, Honor the Dead, Structured entropy [Bats]

I wish I could have your patience. I used to run almost this exact setup but got tired of having to cast 4 skills before even engaging anyone, and repeating every 3-4 rotations. It's pure tedium to me, especially with focus being stationary. Hell I gave it up entirely on my stamplar and just went Chudan for the ward/resolve lol.

Anyway, mad respect to the dedicated magplar.

I won't lie, it does require a lot of patience. Unfortunately being patient is the most efficient way of playing a templar, which is why I do not think we see a lot of aggressive builds out there. Sure, it's doable. But so much easier and fluid to role a different class.

Brutusmax1mus

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Honestly if you’re worried about repositioning yourself run immovable speed pots, most Templars run tanky setups anyways so they go hand and hand. I learned how to play without mist or a gap closer on my Templar, haven’t used either since like 2016. Only time I’ll definitely slot mist is if I’m emperor because then it becomes a necessity.

And often in open world trying to run solo Templar is also about reading the situation, I don’t think you should try to engage or bait anyone if you don’t have anything to los with. A simple tree will make huge difference. Plus, there’s bunny hopping , a lot of people think it’s stupid but it actually lets you reposition yourself without losing the flow of combat, easy animation canceling/bar swap canceling and can still block too.

Agree to disagree. Immovable leaves a huge window where you can be ccd and rooted. Mist lets you counter upcoming burst combos an well as los with 1 button press. I see a lot of value in that over having to run speed pots and not get magicka sustain from my potion.

CatchMeTrolling

Minno wrote: »

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CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Honestly if you’re worried about repositioning yourself run immovable speed pots, most Templars run tanky setups anyways so they go hand and hand. I learned how to play without mist or a gap closer on my Templar, haven’t used either since like 2016. Only time I’ll definitely slot mist is if I’m emperor because then it becomes a necessity.

And often in open world trying to run solo Templar is also about reading the situation, I don’t think you should try to engage or bait anyone if you don’t have anything to los with. A simple tree will make huge difference. Plus, there’s bunny hopping , a lot of people think it’s stupid but it actually lets you reposition yourself without losing the flow of combat, easy animation canceling/bar swap canceling and can still block too.

I use jumping sometimes as a visual metronome, so I can count debuff/buff timers prior to engaging in melee.

Can see that being useful lol I don’t play with either on though, too much of a clutter. I do also use jumping to switch pots or reapply food, no need to do that on pc since controls aren’t so clunky.

techprince

I am running Master Inferno Staff + Riposte + BSW + Skoria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhjR-JZjZZs

Ariades_swe

Been trying out 2 shadowrend 5 necro 5 transmutation dw front bar and 5 necro with frost staff back bar lately. Works great in small scale for me thus far.
Haven't used a gapcloser or mistform in ages.