The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Soul Harvest will need an additional effect in order to compete with Incap following this bug fix
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Soul Harvest should just be left undodgeable IMO. It wasn't overperforming when it wasn't dodgeable.
Incap remains the higher risk / higher reward morph since it stuns and is dodgeable. Soul Harvest is a lower risk / lower reward version.
Seems like pretty good morph variety to me.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT9 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier
None of them applies 20% damage taken major defile and are way more expensive + the classes utilising those skills can't dishout burst the same way nb does.
incap is single target, the other 2 are aoe. plus warden uses db and look how many nerf threads they have because of their high BURST
Warden nerf threads are here because they are completely overtuned, just like incap.
If you think dawnbreaker or meteor are better than incap, go ahead and slot them, you'll see how wrong you are
for aoe situations, db and meteor are better and I would use either over incap in that context. Single target ults should be better in a single target context otherwise why bother slot it? Also, incap unlike db is dodgeable and being an ult, well you just wasted your ultEdited by JobooAGS on January 16, 2018 6:01PM2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ouch that hurts, i guess people don't use sets because they have to farm them. In pvp you use the best things you can get, have you every thought about why pvpers complain about undaunted unlock? They do it for every character if meteor was that useful no one would wait to unlock itNone of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
It could be that you get Death Stroke at level 12 (skill line) and meteor takes days to farm lore books/Daily quests.
2 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier
None of them applies 20% damage taken major defile and are way more expensive + the classes utilising those skills can't dishout burst the same way nb does.
incap is single target, the other 2 are aoe. plus warden uses db and look how many nerf threads they have because of their high BURST
Warden nerf threads are here because they are completely overtuned, just like incap.
If you think dawnbreaker or meteor are better than incap, go ahead and slot them, you'll see how wrong you are
for aoe situations, db and meteor are better and I would use either over incap in that context. Single target ults should be better in a single target context otherwise why bother slot it? Also, incap unlike db is dodgeable and being an ult, well you just wasted your ult
Incap is undodgeable as soon as latency hits 120 ms. @DDuke made a vid about it.
Also if you bring a stamnb to an aoe group fight you are doing it wrong, for 1vX incap is better as you can nuke 1 player down, and for zergs destro wins.3 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭Please try and stay on topic. It's not my fault you can't block/dodge incap.
Having this skill be undodgable was rather nice, but it's a bug so W/E. However there is now no interesting choice people are forced to make. Incap is clearly the better morph in almost every case.I recall @ZOS_Wrobel wanted to force people to make interesting choices, this is one such choice. Personally I am annoyed they decided to touch this skill while there are many things in the game that should be dodgable, that are not. Power lash for the DK cannot be dodged either. There are even some skills like power extraction/steel tornado/blade cloak that should not be dodgable yet they are. Soul Harvest is a nightblade's only undodgable skill that (As I said power extraction/sap can be dodged for whatever reason). Templars have jabs. The sorc has lightning form (and morphs), mages furry and curse. DK has spikes and powerlash. And finally Warden has shalks and bird spam... OMG bird spam, and you are taking away soul harvest and not touching other skills?
There needs to be something added to compensate. I'd be happy would soul harvest going back down to 50 in cost (incap remains 70). While it's current function is a bug I wouldn't mind keeping it, it made choosing between them a meaningful choice.Maybe the Debuff it applies would last 2 seconds longer than incap's. Maybe made the damage dodgable but the Debuff would still apply.
Something of this sort. Thank you
Powerlash isnt 100% undodgeable, even so they fixing a bug a skill doesn’t discourage you from using it. Soul Harvest will still hit harder than Incap when used on a mag build, that’s the reason why you choose it. Nightblades have more than enough utility, they have no need for nerds or buffs.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier
None of them applies 20% damage taken major defile and are way more expensive + the classes utilising those skills can't dishout burst the same way nb does.
incap is single target, the other 2 are aoe. plus warden uses db and look how many nerf threads they have because of their high BURST
Warden nerf threads are here because they are completely overtuned, just like incap.
If you think dawnbreaker or meteor are better than incap, go ahead and slot them, you'll see how wrong you are
for aoe situations, db and meteor are better and I would use either over incap in that context. Single target ults should be better in a single target context otherwise why bother slot it? Also, incap unlike db is dodgeable and being an ult, well you just wasted your ult
Incap is undodgeable as soon as latency hits 120 ms. @DDuke made a vid about it.
Also if you bring a stamnb to an aoe group fight you are doing it wrong, for 1vX incap is better as you can nuke 1 player down, and for zergs destro wins.
Nope, I made a video about how difficult it is to dodge after you've been hit by fear or some other CC.
Here's the video:
https://youtu.be/q2oUzes2_xE
It's about CC Break & how fast you can react and dodge before opponent's global cooldown ends. Note: it's not impossible to CC break->dodge roll before opponent lands the follow-up Incap, not unless the latency difference between you & your opponent is too big.
Incap itself is very dodgeable, though it has a very fast travel time, so it's likely you'll have to anticipate when your opponent would use it in order to dodge it in time, i.e. after Ambush or Heavy Attack etc. With experience, it's pretty easy to figure out when a stamblade has an Incap up & when he's likely to (try to) use it.Edited by DDuke on January 16, 2018 6:12PM6 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »How about remove things from incap to bring it line with Soul?
Bum bum bum!
You mean like return the mechanic that only stuns if the target has more % HP than you and damage scales with amount of ult saved (instead of full bang every time)?? Yass please!3 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭The issue like @NightbladeMechanics said is soul harvest being really weak compare to Incap due to the stun and the possible combo with merciless .
Also others Magnb Ult are nowadays really bad , soul tether hitting like a wet noodle compares to others aoe ultimates like meteor/dawnbreaker/leap and healing for almost nothing in the current major defile meta.
Let's not talk about "Veil of Blade" with his 5 meters radius and 200 cost , almost 3 years (since 1.6) that this ultimate is trash.
But this the night blade play style, having few good ults while also having second most access to all the buffs in the game. Same as a dk having a lot of useful ults but next to nothing in terms of passives and buffs except for major mending, helping hands, and (sh***y) battle roar.1 -
CavalryPK✭✭✭✭✭WHERE IS THAT AGREE BUTTON. ooo there it is. /click. The only reason I used soul harvest was because it was undodgeable.
THE CAVELRY HAS ARRIVED! Cav is a professional magblade, (in his not so professional opinion). He is immortal and is fighting for the Pact since 2E 572, amidst the turmoil of the Second Akaviri Invasion. He protects the provinces of Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh.
Check out his PVP YouTube channel !
https://youtube.com/TheCavalryPK1 -
Rainraven✭✭✭✭✭NightbladeMechanics wrote: »Soul Harvest will still be a BIS choice in PVE for the ult-generation and increased Impale damage in execute phase. Other ults have one morph for PVE and another for PVP (e.g. Dawnbreaker, Standard). Why shouldn't Death Stroke be the same?
I like making choices beyond "am I killing players or NPCs right now" when choosing ults. Incap is already the stronger PvP morph because of that cc leading into your combo. I'd at least like it to function with my magicka crit and crit damage stats if it's intended to be the universal PvP morph. Also Incap gives all of the same passives as Soul Harvest except for the ulti gain and functioning with elfborn, ele expert, prophecy, and other magicka-specific buffs.
Same, and I'd love to see those other ults get more interesting choices added to them as well. But my point is that it looks like this is actually a conversation about ZOS' design philosophy for ultimate abilities, not just Soul Harvest, since by the lights of what appears to be ZOS' typical thinking when it comes to ults, Death Stroke is in a good place even if Soul Harvest has only niche application in PVP.
Yeah, I think this is it.
It's pretty frustrating actually that we really only have the illusion of choice when morphing most abilities. If it's not a stamina-or-magicka situation - so only one of those is going to work with your build - it's PVE-or-PVP, and only one is going to be effective at all in Cyrodiil. Most annoying for those I have to keep switching back and forth, but the "don't even bother" options make me sad.
Reasonable that either morph of an ultimate should use highest stats though, including crit chance and damage. I wonder why it doesn't?0 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launchＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/172 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launch
Incap+ will is much more devastating. The defile+ 20% extra damage are much better than some more damage on meteor2 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »How about remove things from incap to bring it line with Soul?
Bum bum bum!
Comparing Soul Harvest disfavorably to Incap misses the point of Soul Harvest. The strength of soul harvest has been, and always will be, its ultimate generation. There is no "bring it in line with Soul."
Incap isn't a better morph. It's the stamina morph. Incap has always been dodgeable, as any single target ability should be. It misses all the time if the target approaches you on a diagonal vector. Gankers don't get to stun often with incap because the snare from ambush (or stealth) will either already CC the target or grant them immunity if they break free. If you haven't killed the nightblade by the second or third incap, you have a different problem. Even in PvE, Incap is only viable now because of Warmachine.
Soul Harvest was always there to help a magblade (and even a stamblade) generate ultimate to drop on the boss. Soul Harvest never really was a PvP ultimate, apart from slotting it while zerging to build up a bomb faster. Even in PvE it still serves much the same purpose for a magblade DPS: you can't even use Soul Harvest to activate Master Architect reliably, since magplade DPS is ranged.
The two ultimates serve radically different purposes for radically different builds. If you're getting close enough to an enemy in a situation where you're not planning on using an AoE ultimate, it sounds like you would rather be a stamblade instead.
Magblade shouldn't be just more forgiving stamblade with shields. It is truly a different class.
tl;dr: This is another instance of the magicka persecution complex. Bring yourselves into line with stamblades.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."1 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »How about remove things from incap to bring it line with Soul?
Bum bum bum!
Comparing Soul Harvest disfavorably to Incap misses the point of Soul Harvest. The strength of soul harvest has been, and always will be, its ultimate generation. There is no "bring it in line with Soul."
Incap isn't a better morph. It's the stamina morph. Incap has always been dodgeable, as any single target ability should be. It misses all the time if the target approaches you on a diagonal vector. Gankers don't get to stun often with incap because the snare from ambush (or stealth) will either already CC the target or grant them immunity if they break free. If you haven't killed the nightblade by the second or third incap, you have a different problem. Even in PvE, Incap is only viable now because of Warmachine.
Soul Harvest was always there to help a magblade (and even a stamblade) generate ultimate to drop on the boss. Soul Harvest never really was a PvP ultimate, apart from slotting it while zerging to build up a bomb faster. Even in PvE it still serves much the same purpose for a magblade DPS: you can't even use Soul Harvest to activate Master Architect reliably, since magplade DPS is ranged.
The two ultimates serve radically different purposes for radically different builds. If you're getting close enough to an enemy in a situation where you're not planning on using an AoE ultimate, it sounds like you would rather be a stamblade instead.
Magblade shouldn't be just more forgiving stamblade with shields. It is truly a different class.
tl;dr: This is another instance of the magicka persecution complex. Bring yourselves into line with stamblades.
So if I use the Moves Concealed Weapon Lotus Fan I should just go stamblade? The class has magic based close range moves a magic based gap closer and a magic based close range ultimate. No I don’t want to be a stamblade.
More forgiving? A light armor build without snare removal in melee combat isn’t exactly what I would call more forgiving. Especially when Healing Ward Siphoning Attacks and Cloak aren’t working properly. Wait maybe the heal that hurts me is more forgiving.6 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launch
Incap+ will is much more devastating. The defile+ 20% extra damage are much better than some more damage on meteor
Meteor procs Might of the Guild which procs Empower (25% increased damage) on your Merciless. Meteor hits harder, has an attached DOT, is undodgeable, and makes your next hit hit harder than Incap would.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/176 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launch
Incap+ will is much more devastating. The defile+ 20% extra damage are much better than some more damage on meteor
Meteor procs Might of the Guild which procs Empower (25% increased damage) on your Merciless. Meteor hits harder, has an attached DOT, is undodgeable, and makes your next hit hit harder than Incap would.
and its ranged
but correction, it is 20%, same as incap, but the point remains Edited by JobooAGS on January 16, 2018 6:53PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launch
Incap+ will is much more devastating. The defile+ 20% extra damage are much better than some more damage on meteor
Meteor procs Might of the Guild which procs Empower (25% increased damage) on your Merciless. Meteor hits harder, has an attached DOT, is undodgeable, and makes your next hit hit harder than Incap would.
empower gives you 20%, for the next hit which is consumed by your light attack weave or any other skill because Meteor takes 2 seconds to hit. 2 seconds of no offensive skill usage means 2 missed weaves and 2 missed damage skills.
the dot is ground based and no one will ever stand in it,
also Meteor costs almost 3x the amount of incap, almost every incap i use in open world leads to a kill which is another 20 ult from AW passives.
i've used both combinations, and the only Thing i'd Slot Meteor again is to kill a Group of ppl who are stuck in loading Screen while rezzing at a camp4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's not the end of the world tbh, Soul Tether is still a great undodgeable ultimate (like 500-1k less instant dmg than Harvest) and comes with a stun too.Edited by DDuke on January 16, 2018 7:06PM2 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's not the end of the world tbh, Soul Tether is still a great undodgeable ultimate (like 500-1k less instant dmg than Harvest) and comes with a stun too.
It is actually dodgeable in the mindset on range. At 6 meter radius anyone with any speed buff will just outrun it. Same range as impulse.
0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's not the end of the world tbh, Soul Tether is still a great undodgeable ultimate (like 500-1k less instant dmg than Harvest) and comes with a stun too.
It is actually dodgeable in the mindset on range. At 6 meter radius anyone with any speed buff will just outrun it. Same range as impulse.
Well yes, gotta be sure you're in range when you use it. But it's not that different to Harvest (5m range) - Harvest just doesn't go off at all if you're out of range.1 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »How about remove things from incap to bring it line with Soul?
Bum bum bum!
Comparing Soul Harvest disfavorably to Incap misses the point of Soul Harvest. The strength of soul harvest has been, and always will be, its ultimate generation. There is no "bring it in line with Soul."
Incap isn't a better morph. It's the stamina morph. Incap has always been dodgeable, as any single target ability should be. It misses all the time if the target approaches you on a diagonal vector. Gankers don't get to stun often with incap because the snare from ambush (or stealth) will either already CC the target or grant them immunity if they break free. If you haven't killed the nightblade by the second or third incap, you have a different problem. Even in PvE, Incap is only viable now because of Warmachine.
Soul Harvest was always there to help a magblade (and even a stamblade) generate ultimate to drop on the boss. Soul Harvest never really was a PvP ultimate, apart from slotting it while zerging to build up a bomb faster. Even in PvE it still serves much the same purpose for a magblade DPS: you can't even use Soul Harvest to activate Master Architect reliably, since magplade DPS is ranged.
The two ultimates serve radically different purposes for radically different builds. If you're getting close enough to an enemy in a situation where you're not planning on using an AoE ultimate, it sounds like you would rather be a stamblade instead.
Magblade shouldn't be just more forgiving stamblade with shields. It is truly a different class.
tl;dr: This is another instance of the magicka persecution complex. Bring yourselves into line with stamblades.
So if I use the Moves Concealed Weapon Lotus Fan I should just go stamblade? The class has magic based close range moves a magic based gap closer and a magic based close range ultimate. No I don’t want to be a stamblade.
More forgiving? A light armor build without snare removal in melee combat isn’t exactly what I would call more forgiving. Especially when Healing Ward Siphoning Attacks and Cloak aren’t working properly. Wait maybe the heal that hurts me is more forgiving.
Magblade is a ranged class. The presence of those abilities does not change that paradigm.
1. Lotus Fan is an AoE gap-closer used in preparation for a bomb. It isn't a brawling melee ability.
2. If you're a vampire I wouldn't use Concealed weapon at all. As with Soul Harvest, it's slotted for its movement speed passive.
3. Both of the above are remnant abilities from when the entire nightblade class was magicka based. Ambush and Surprise Attack were changed to stamina morphs as part of the the changes long ago that brought stamblades into existence. Lotus Fan and Conceal Weapon are the leftover magicka alternatives from a change that caused quite the uproar when it came about. The presence of those abilities doesn't justify making the magblade as adept at close range combat as a stamblade, as they are used in ways radically different from their counterparts, with a very different intended purpose.
Yes more forgiving. You have vastly more recovery and defensive options as a magblade than you would as a stamblade.
1. You're not supposed to be in melee combat, so you shouldn't need snare removal as much.
2. You do have snare removal: It's called stamina. Unlike a stamblade, you don't need to rely on both resource pools to cast abilities, so there's nothing else for you to spend stamina on.
3. Healing Ward, Siphoning Attacks, and Cloak do work properly, they just aren't as OP as everyone would like them to be. Luckily the magblade has enough resource return to use them far more often than a stamblade ever could.
4. You also have Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path, Sap Essence, and Soul Tether. The Magblade class is brimming with HoTs.
4. Since you're running Healing Ward, you're running a resto stave, which means you also get to run Mutagen or Healing Springs. Slotted with Swallow Soul for the Minor Mending, those two abilities are powerful, low cost heals, and Mutagen will even remove a snare for you. Neither Rally nor Vigor are as powerful.
EDIT: Lets also not forget HARNESS MAGIC/DAMPEN MAGIC. As a light armor build, you get access to those powerful shields as well, in addition to Healing Ward. You can't Harness=>Harden like a magSorc, but then again magSorcs don't have cloak do they?Edited by waitwhat on January 16, 2018 7:51PMPS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."1 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
as with current and so long times where we have many dodges I as Im not the perfect/top player but playing fine on stamblade I just prefer to use dawnbreaker to have guaranteed hit with stun instead maybe 25% chance to land incap as its really easy to avaid as I rarely getting hits from this lol
as @DDuke wrote here, if there is no problem with lag incap is just to much predictable and agianst good players you will rarely hit with this ult without lag help
EDIT: as also it annyoing how its many times dodged by just shuffle like normal spammable skills
take look for example on dragon leap....maybe have higher cost but for it as its undodgable is also hitting stronger with aoe and cc
so ata ll why sould harvest morph cant be undodgable as is weaker morph of this ult?
do you remember times when even concealed weapon was undodgable? as compensate it was 2x+ more expensive than funnel health, is only melee and dont provide you healing for damage done while also just damage wasn even 10% higher than funnel health as for that many disadvantages in compare to funnel healthEdited by Edziu on January 16, 2018 7:58PM3 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »How about remove things from incap to bring it line with Soul?
Bum bum bum!
Comparing Soul Harvest disfavorably to Incap misses the point of Soul Harvest. The strength of soul harvest has been, and always will be, its ultimate generation. There is no "bring it in line with Soul."
Incap isn't a better morph. It's the stamina morph. Incap has always been dodgeable, as any single target ability should be. It misses all the time if the target approaches you on a diagonal vector. Gankers don't get to stun often with incap because the snare from ambush (or stealth) will either already CC the target or grant them immunity if they break free. If you haven't killed the nightblade by the second or third incap, you have a different problem. Even in PvE, Incap is only viable now because of Warmachine.
Soul Harvest was always there to help a magblade (and even a stamblade) generate ultimate to drop on the boss. Soul Harvest never really was a PvP ultimate, apart from slotting it while zerging to build up a bomb faster. Even in PvE it still serves much the same purpose for a magblade DPS: you can't even use Soul Harvest to activate Master Architect reliably, since magplade DPS is ranged.
The two ultimates serve radically different purposes for radically different builds. If you're getting close enough to an enemy in a situation where you're not planning on using an AoE ultimate, it sounds like you would rather be a stamblade instead.
Magblade shouldn't be just more forgiving stamblade with shields. It is truly a different class.
tl;dr: This is another instance of the magicka persecution complex. Bring yourselves into line with stamblades.
So if I use the Moves Concealed Weapon Lotus Fan I should just go stamblade? The class has magic based close range moves a magic based gap closer and a magic based close range ultimate. No I don’t want to be a stamblade.
More forgiving? A light armor build without snare removal in melee combat isn’t exactly what I would call more forgiving. Especially when Healing Ward Siphoning Attacks and Cloak aren’t working properly. Wait maybe the heal that hurts me is more forgiving.
Magblade is a ranged class. The presence of those abilities does not change that paradigm.
1. Lotus Fan is an AoE gap-closer used in preparation for a bomb. It isn't a brawling melee ability.
2. If you're a vampire I wouldn't use Concealed weapon at all. As with Soul Harvest, it's slotted for its movement speed passive.
3. Both of the above are remnant abilities from when the entire nightblade class was magicka based. Ambush and Surprise Attack were changed to stamina morphs as part of the the changes long ago that brought stamblades into existence. Lotus Fan and Conceal Weapon are the leftover magicka alternatives from a change that caused quite the uproar when it came about. The presence of those abilities doesn't justify making the magblade as adept at close range combat as a stamblade, as they are used in ways radically different from their counterparts, with a very different intended purpose.
Yes more forgiving. You have vastly more recovery and defensive options as a magblade than you would as a stamblade.
1. You're not supposed to be in melee combat, so you shouldn't need snare removal as much.
2. You do have snare removal: It's called stamina. Unlike a stamblade, you don't need to rely on both resource pools to cast abilities, so there's nothing else for you to spend stamina on.
3. Healing Ward, Siphoning Attacks, and Cloak do work properly, they just aren't as OP as everyone would like them to be. Luckily the magblade has enough resource return to use them far more often than a stamblade ever could.
4. You also have Swallow Soul, Refreshing Path, Sap Essence, and Soul Tether. The Magblade class is brimming with HoTs.
4. Since you're running Healing Ward, you're running a resto stave, which means you also get to run Mutagen or Healing Springs. Slotted with Swallow Soul for the Minor Mending, those two abilities are powerful, low cost heals, and Mutagen will even remove a snare for you. Neither Rally nor Vigor are as powerful.
EDIT: Lets also not forget HARNESS MAGIC/DAMPEN MAGIC. As a light armor build, you get access to those powerful shields as well, in addition to Healing Ward. You can't Harness=>Harden like a magSorc, but then again magSorcs don't have cloak do they?
Healing ward doesn’t always give you a heal even if you get your own shield. It was just supposedly fixed with this PTS. Siphoning Attacks cause additional animations throughout the duration and can play the animation even on a mount. Cloak can be broken from light attacks. All of these are Bugs.
So I should only use Ranged? This makes no since considering my tooltip is normally higher on concealed than surprise. A snaring gap closers (stampede) sounds to me like a melee gap closer to keep them in range.
There is block dodge roll and break free from Stam pool. None of those help with snares. I can dodge roll a few times (Amber and Shacklebreaker) but in the end I’m still snared.
And why should I be pigeonholed into range when the class has melee moves. Even a melee ultimate. With 5 meter range. And soul tether so I Have to be in melee range. So it’s a Ranged class with melee Ranged moves and an melee Ranged Ultimates.
0 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launch
Incap+ will is much more devastating. The defile+ 20% extra damage are much better than some more damage on meteor
IncapNone of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do use meteor on their NBs, even on their stamblades, IN PLACE OF INCAP.
Check out the spoiler under "Bow Bar | Support Damage & Buffs" where one of the best nightblades around says: "Ultimate Option 2 (High AOE) Shooting Star (morph of Meteor | Mage's Guild skill line) - An ultimate that won't scale as well as others in terms of raw damage, it still boasts the most AoE damage potential out of Stamina's available ultimates. Paired with Soul Harvest on your main bar and the ultimate return for hitting targets, you can toss out Shooting Stars like candy."
Added PvP bonus: Shooting Star is ranged and an AoE knockback with passive bonuses to max magicka, magicka recovery, and the damage of the next attack. In short, massively viable, even preferable option to Soul Harvest.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."3 -
waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier
Add Dragon Leap and Soul Tether to this category as well.
Oh yeah, Soul Tether bombs are a thing.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Edited by NyassaV on January 16, 2018 8:14PMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Me neither.
I tried a build utilizing Skoria once (with Ambush+Incap timed with the proc), but I don't think those meteors countarkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Meteor and Dawnbreaker are both high damage and stun on hit, incap isn't an outlier
Add Dragon Leap and Soul Tether to this category as well.
Oh yeah, Soul Tether bombs are a thing.
You can use Tether against a single target too.
Basicly magblade has the same melee capabilities as stamblade when you think about it, except I'd swap useless dodge rolling for Healing Ward spam (and permacloaking) any day...
Lotus Fan=Ambush/Crit Rush
Concealed Weapon=Surprise Attack
Tether=Incap
That's really the core of it.
Next patch (provided there's no big nerfs to a certain set) melee magblade will be very viable based on my PTS testing.Edited by DDuke on January 16, 2018 8:21PM2 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Honestly just change certain ultis to deal damage based on wether your wpd.or spd is higher. There is already a presedence.to this in Burning Light passive from templar.
Ultis to consider: death stroke, radial Sweep, dragonknights leap and dawnbreaker
You could choose the morph based on what secondary effect you want without being gimped by Cp scaling.
There: a buff for everyone and a nerf for no one.
Heck.with dawnbreaker You could have flawless give more spd if youre magicka, more variety everyone happy case closed.
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »None of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do, though. Meteor+Fear+Merciless has been a common magic NB combo since launch
Incap+ will is much more devastating. The defile+ 20% extra damage are much better than some more damage on meteor
IncapNone of the death stroke morphs need a buff, incap needs it's stun removed.
Incap is completely overperfoming and arguably the best single target ult in the game, as you said the cc combined with high damage, 20% damage increase and major defile + passives.
On top the stun on incap is broken like many others but incap is the one you can't break free of the most.
I play both stamnb and meele magnb and ofc I'm using incap on both of them. When i count the times an enemy couldn't break free from my incap I always get to ~66% of the times when I'm using incap. People get pinned on the floor and can't react "fast" enough to break free and defend themselves (i mean 2 gcd most of the time). With how much damage the first burst does and how fast nbs can dish out more damage 90% of all builds are dead because of the bugged stun.
This has to end even without the stun incap and nbs are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and are nowhere near "dead" if people start bringing up that reaction
Just fix the stun then? You're describing a bug and using it as a reason for a nerf.
Although, I would definitely get behind removing the stun and increasing the empower to 8 seconds for example. Would really help Stamblade in PvE.
No even with a fixed stun incap is too powerful. I wrote it down in another post about incap why a stun on a high damage ability is a stupid idea.
Stamnb doesn't need more buffs not a single bit, at least not in pvp. PvE is a completely different story but an increase to the bursty nature of stamnb isn't something this game needs, a way of more sustained damage would be fine
Its not an ability it’s an ULTIMATE. Like to compete with meteor the 20k + AOE tooltip AOE stun with a DOT with it that generates more Ultimate than Soul Harvest with Range. Of course it costs more but with all that extra for a little more than double the cost (on Sorc)
What we are talking about is having something else added to Soul harvest on a melee MNB/Ranged MNB to compete with incap which got soul harvest nerfed a few times already. No point to slot this over incap in pvp anymore to fight with.
It’s ok I’ll just continue to Soul assault people from stealth until I can get a working shadow image Siphoning strikes and healing ward again.
If you think that meteor is the better ult then ask yourself one question, why do people don't use meteor on their nbs maybe because 20% damage taken and major defile is much better than a crappy ground dot?
People do use meteor on their NBs, even on their stamblades, IN PLACE OF INCAP.
Check out the spoiler under "Bow Bar | Support Damage & Buffs" where one of the best nightblades around says: "Ultimate Option 2 (High AOE) Shooting Star (morph of Meteor | Mage's Guild skill line) - An ultimate that won't scale as well as others in terms of raw damage, it still boasts the most AoE damage potential out of Stamina's available ultimates. Paired with Soul Harvest on your main bar and the ultimate return for hitting targets, you can toss out Shooting Stars like candy."
Added PvP bonus: Shooting Star is ranged and an AoE knockback with passive bonuses to max magicka, magicka recovery, and the damage of the next attack. In short, massively viable, even preferable option to Soul Harvest.
That's a PvE nightblade build.
If a stam Nightbade build wants to drop Meteor on me, by all means let them. Meteor is perhaps the easiest ultimate to counter in the game, and one dropped by a properly build sorcerer, which will hit harder, isn't dificult to deal with at all (lag permitting).
I do sort of agree with the OP's premise that an ultimate used for just passive reasons is kind of silly and a waste; if I were magicka NB, I'd probably be jealous of Incap. So, I do think ZoS should look to make some changes.
After, of course, they do something with the same cost turd known as Empowering Sweep.Edited by Joy_Division on January 16, 2018 8:49PM0
