Loot Boxes now becoming Illegal. How does this effect Crown Crates?

Mystrius_Archaion

lordrichter wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Easily_Lost wrote: »

Oh no, please do complain when those loot boxes are gone and those apex mounts and motifs cost around 50,000 to 60,000 Crowns or more.. Be careful what you ask for.

you cant actually believe that do you?

i suggest you take a few courses in economics and business.

Would they sell those things outright for 50k? No, as you suggest. This is why the boxes are here to stay. It is the only way to sell certain mounts for 10's of thousands of Crowns.

Except the mounts all separate would be purchased a LOT more at lower prices. Everything would be. They would actually make more money placing them all for sale at standard already established rates.

I spent hundreds of dollars on the first Storm Atronach Crates, but I wouldn't have spent any more than I did because I didn't have the money to at the time. After that realization of how much it cost me and how much I would have actually spent on the items directly, I never spent any on future crates and still won't for the foreseeable future despite how much I like the psijic exemplar mount theme.
I would gladly pay 4000 crowns per mount for 3-4 of those psijic crate mounts alone, not even including other items like the mascot pets, but I would never spend 12000-16000 crowns for just RNG chances when I know damn well I won't likely get one of them.

They don't need to sell things higher to make the same or more money. The bad word of mouth advertising is enough to kill their current profits from these things sooner or later if it hasn't already. It's souring the milk.

Mystrius_Archaion

Charliff1966 wrote: »

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Charliff1966 wrote: »

Coolits wrote: »

Belgium have finished their investigation into lootboxes and has found them to be illegal warning several games companies to remove them or face upto a 5 year prison sentince and an 800k euro fine.

First the Dutch and now Belgium, I'm sure many more contries will follow.

Just stop selling the game in those countries and find a way to block people being able to play the game. Problem solved.

Until its in your country right? abit short-sighted dont you think?

Whats cheaper for a company? Remove crates or block countries. Me? Its a game, block ESO and i find something else to do.

For the company, removing crates is both cheaper and likely more profitable.
Crates are bad word of mouth advertising generators, leave a bad taste in the purchaser's mouth and legal trouble which can be fines and lost potential buyers in many countries even if they don't ban them. The countries themselves tend to block it if they can so the people have little choice.
DNS servers of internet service providers are often mandated by law to block access to certain websites or servers by governments, even just to oppress the people if not for legitimate legal reasons.
It's also harder to code a game to go through all the necessary checks, which can't just be a change to the TOS/EULA to "certify that I am of legal age" when everyone, and their politician's dog, knows that people do not read those and underage people always get through. If a kid can use a fake ID or a quick sidestep of a doorman at a bar to get in and drink or not get carded by a convenience store cashier then they can get by this completely anonymous system they could make to keep them off the game also. FYI the establishment that sells alcohol or tobacco to minors, or just allows them access even, is held responsible for them being there and using those products more so than the minor even. It is not in ZOS's best interest to ignore the law or count on a flimsy not-legally-binding EULA/TOS to save them, which they are not legally binding FYI.

Elsonso

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Easily_Lost wrote: »

Oh no, please do complain when those loot boxes are gone and those apex mounts and motifs cost around 50,000 to 60,000 Crowns or more.. Be careful what you ask for.

you cant actually believe that do you?

i suggest you take a few courses in economics and business.

Would they sell those things outright for 50k? No, as you suggest. This is why the boxes are here to stay. It is the only way to sell certain mounts for 10's of thousands of Crowns.

Except the mounts all separate would be purchased a LOT more at lower prices. Everything would be. They would actually make more money placing them all for sale at standard already established rates.

It is already well established that certain items in the Crown Store are not intended to be high volume items. This would definitely apply to mounts where people might spend tens of thousands of Crowns in a game against the random number generator.

mikejezz

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

For the company, removing crates is both cheaper and likely more profitable.
Crates are bad word of mouth advertising generators, leave a bad taste in the purchaser's mouth and legal trouble which can be fines and lost potential buyers in many countries even if they don't ban them.

The crates has been in ESO for years now and the word of mouth about these are astrondous, even on this very own official forum.

Yet it doesn’t look like that the bad word of mouth are going to change anything. Money talks, and trust me, they earn a lot of gold from the weak people buying for thousands of dollars on crates.

Slick_007

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

So the people born mentally handicapped who escape into a game where they can do things they could never do in real life and are vulnerable to being exploited because they definitely do not have that mental capacity to recognize these things are completely screwed because they can't help themselves?


Gambling and tobacco and alcohol and hard drugs like opiods and obesity and everything are all capable of being stopped by self-regulation, but they aren't stopped. They continue on being all too common.
You give people to much credit, yourself included. I bet you have an addiction you will likely not admit to and certainly would be very hard to break. Everyone has something they have a very hard time saying no to and regret not saying no. Everyone unless they're lying which is also a character flaw that they can't stop just like an addiction.

I keep saying it. This is a battle against either human nature itself or those that exploit human nature. Which is easier to fight? Is it the humans and their nature that they may not even realize they are acting upon and can't fight or the ones who know they are exploiting it but don't have to so they can be stopped if they are encouraged to do so?
That's the reason for most laws.

so what you are saying is society cant have fun things because some people lack mental capacity, and when they cant look after their own finances, society becomes responsible to do it for them, instead of a family member or carer. No offense, but i didnt volunteer for that. Keep the crates coming. Im a responsible adult and i want them to be available should i wish to purchase them.

People can literally give me cancer legally (even though i dont smoke) and you think i shouldnt have crates available. what a crappy society.

cgregsweeney

Even if loot crates aren't outlawed, I still think ESO should ditch the practice and just have everything in the store at a set price. These mystery grab bags are disrespectful to the customer.

I only want one or two things from the set, and I'm forced to pay more and more if RNGesus doesn't favor me, getting a bunch of worthless junk in the process? No thank you!

If they must exist, they should be an alternative. A way to get what you want but cheaper, if you're lucky. So you can either pay full price for what you want guaranteed, or you can pay a fraction of the price and have a chance of getting it.

dodgehopper_ESO

ravenarc wrote: »

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

The difference between Loot Crates and Crown Crates is that Crown Crates don't give in-game benefits. Other than Experience Scrolls. Oooh you get extra xp big deal, get over it. Crown Crates have cool cosmetics, and there's nothing wrong with that. They shouldn't really be compared to those EA type loot crates. If someone gets addicted to buying more and more crates to get cosmetic stuff, big deal it doesn't break the game or the person (hopefully)

TL:DR = Gambling boxes. Looks pretty much the same to me. Me and most of my friends left ESO because of this because it's a disgusting thing to lock good stuffs behind rngs or with ridiculous crown price. While we're just a part of smaller playerbase who left the game, I'm pretty sure that someday when players had enough of this predatory marketing they will leave the game too and it looks like it's the road where this game is heading.

I have a feeling a lot of game developers build around a game lifecycle. They don't expect to be around for the full ten years so they work on slowly fleecing the player base after a few years to get more money up front before the expected exodus will begin anyway. I think it kills the joy of MMO's though and honestly this practice is precisely why ESO will be my last MMO once they've gotten to the point I'm pissed off. I can still enjoy the game where it is at but I am philosophically opposed to lock boxes. I've stated my displeasure but at least in present it is legal for them to offer this sort of thing. I simply don't think it is a good idea for them to do so. EA has seriously soured my opinion of them and the entire industry as a whole. For many of my friends who I discord with they are well aware that I some day intend to 'opt out' of video games. Maybe that's part of growing up that I should have done many years ago. Maybe television was the same thing for our parents. I don't really know.

Wayshuba

Slick_007 wrote: »

so what you are saying is society cant have fun things because some people lack mental capacity, and when they cant look after their own finances, society becomes responsible to do it for them, instead of a family member or carer. No offense, but i didnt volunteer for that. Keep the crates coming. Im a responsible adult and i want them to be available should i wish to purchase them.

People can literally give me cancer legally (even though i dont smoke) and you think i shouldnt have crates available. what a crappy society.

This is why what is being proposed by Chris Lee and others is NOT to make loot crates illegal - it is to put an adults only rating on games with loot crates.

I am the same as you, an adult who doesn't worry about Crates because I can easily control myself with them. However, as the father of a 12 year old son who games on Xbox, I have seen first hand how the tactics used manipulate children (who are not responsible adults yet).

Thus why gambling laws mainly focus on making sure people are old enough to be able to make responsible decisions, which as a father I am all for.

People need to remember that this is how the ESRB came into being. There was a time when the violence in video games came to the forefront and got so bad that the government was getting involved. The ESRB was a way to "self regulate" and appease lawmakers before they did pass regulation. With loot crates, however, there is A LOT of revenue at stake, so they are going to fight it. Unfortunately, a lawmaker on a mission, like Chris Lee, is very hard to stop as they have a purpose for pushing the legislation.

Wayshuba

As to the subject of the OP, I have been following what Chris Lee and others have been pushing and, so far, they are NOT pushing to make loot crates illegal. What they are pushing to to curb the predatory pull in games to loot crates in playing to psychological addiction to gambling - especially on children.

So far what I have read is this:

1.) If a game has loot crates, they want it to carry an Adults Only rating.

2.) If loot crates are in game, they need to be separated from the game and not integrated into the game play mechanics (i.e., how ESO, Overwatch and Fortnite do it is fine, what EA was trying to do with SW:BFII was not).

3.) Games with loot crates will need to disclose odds on getting items.

None of that will make loot crates illegal, just like gambling is not illegal in some circumstances, it just has regulations to operate. The same is what they are trying to do with loot crates.

Inoki

I always thought that this kind of system if very unhealthy and even when it started in MMOs approx. almost 2 decades ago there was high controversy surrounding it.

Paying for non-P2W items in a game that doesn't require subscription is fine - we all need to sustain ourselves somehow and we cannot possibly expect stuff be given to us for free, unless everyone would have so much money they really don't need any more

But items like these (crates) promote gambling and gambling is an addiction and a very dangerous practice. One can't just say to a person "don't do it" after they've done it and became addicted to it. It should be eliminated from games and only other, non-harmful ways of sustainment should be in place.

I am happy to pay for ESO Plus as I'm doing it mainly because I immensely enjoy the game. People would be encouraged to pay more if 1) items were significantly cheaper 2) they can always choose the exact reward they wish.

Crown Crates I understand have been put in place also out of fear that once a person runs out of what they could buy from the store they stop buying, so it's a way of forcing people to spend money on the game, but remember, that this is not the right way of doing things. It harms us all.

Please remove this system. I am happy to support the game for as long as I can afford to so that it can be continuously made as awesome as it is.

Mystrius_Archaion

lordrichter wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Easily_Lost wrote: »

Oh no, please do complain when those loot boxes are gone and those apex mounts and motifs cost around 50,000 to 60,000 Crowns or more.. Be careful what you ask for.

you cant actually believe that do you?

i suggest you take a few courses in economics and business.

Would they sell those things outright for 50k? No, as you suggest. This is why the boxes are here to stay. It is the only way to sell certain mounts for 10's of thousands of Crowns.

Except the mounts all separate would be purchased a LOT more at lower prices. Everything would be. They would actually make more money placing them all for sale at standard already established rates.

It is already well established that certain items in the Crown Store are not intended to be high volume items.

That is sooo WRONG!
You don't know how selling anything works do you?
If you have the ability to sell a practically unlimited amount ot something....you sell a practically unlimited amount of them. That is the very definition of "high volume".

This works in other games just fine. They sell stuff not in loot boxes and it pays off very well. It has for decades of online games.
Games have just recently gotten very shady sales tactics with limited time items(for no good reason) and random chance boxes that are just there to exploit a few whales because most people don't touch them. Like real life where most people don't go to casinos and blow months of pay with very little return.

The only difference between these lootboxes and casinos is there isn't a direct easily measured loss. Casinos you are using money to play for money so you always know exactly how much you have lost. These loot boxes are harder since you have to convert the items to their expected crown direct purchase value and then add that up based on what you got and what you actually wanted out of what you got and then compare that to how much you actually spent.

I know for damn sure that I spent way more than I should have on the Storm Atronach crates and way more than the items I wanted were worth and still more than what I got was worth.
It's a clear loss after my calculations using the most expensive previous example item direct costs.


I'm done arguing this. I'll let lawmakers and my lawyers do the talking from now on. They obviously are heard more than me and they listen to me more than ZOS.

Mystrius_Archaion

Inoki wrote: »

Crown Crates I understand have been put in place also out of fear that once a person runs out of what they could buy from the store they stop buying

True. It is another way to get us to pay more while they make less content to pay for, even less cosmetics which are content.

So, the next step is removing everything from the crown store direct sales and making the odds worse on the new crates they will be going into, even the old crates will be inside other crates so the drop rate will be exponentially worse.
That would be ideal. Get us to pay for more of a consumable than a long lasting product, just like mandatory subscriptions charging for "time" encouraging developing slower and slower content except charging for lower and lower chances to get stuff.


Fight crates now or kick yourselves later when they make the drop rates, which are still unpublished and variable however they want, worse and worse so you pay more and more for crates because it takes more and more of them to get what you want, like motif chapters instead of whole motifs.

FYI, crates don't have to be the price they are at 400 crowns per crown crate. They can easily decide that there are more valuable items in newer crates so they start charging 500 or 600 or 1000 per crate for the same or lower drop chance of everything in the crate.

Welcome to Extra Spendy Online where the main class people play is "Milk Cow" and twice a day they go into the Crown Store and beg to be milked.

Elsonso

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

Easily_Lost wrote: »

Oh no, please do complain when those loot boxes are gone and those apex mounts and motifs cost around 50,000 to 60,000 Crowns or more.. Be careful what you ask for.

you cant actually believe that do you?

i suggest you take a few courses in economics and business.

Would they sell those things outright for 50k? No, as you suggest. This is why the boxes are here to stay. It is the only way to sell certain mounts for 10's of thousands of Crowns.

Except the mounts all separate would be purchased a LOT more at lower prices. Everything would be. They would actually make more money placing them all for sale at standard already established rates.

It is already well established that certain items in the Crown Store are not intended to be high volume items.

That is sooo WRONG!

Whether what they are doing is wrong or not is a matter of debate. I merely said that it is already well established that they put items in the Crown Store that are not intended to be high volume, and are not.

Mystrius_Archaion

Slick_007 wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

So the people born mentally handicapped who escape into a game where they can do things they could never do in real life and are vulnerable to being exploited because they definitely do not have that mental capacity to recognize these things are completely screwed because they can't help themselves?


Gambling and tobacco and alcohol and hard drugs like opiods and obesity and everything are all capable of being stopped by self-regulation, but they aren't stopped. They continue on being all too common.
You give people to much credit, yourself included. I bet you have an addiction you will likely not admit to and certainly would be very hard to break. Everyone has something they have a very hard time saying no to and regret not saying no. Everyone unless they're lying which is also a character flaw that they can't stop just like an addiction.

I keep saying it. This is a battle against either human nature itself or those that exploit human nature. Which is easier to fight? Is it the humans and their nature that they may not even realize they are acting upon and can't fight or the ones who know they are exploiting it but don't have to so they can be stopped if they are encouraged to do so?
That's the reason for most laws.

so what you are saying is society cant have fun things because some people lack mental capacity, and when they cant look after their own finances, society becomes responsible to do it for them, instead of a family member or carer. No offense, but i didnt volunteer for that. Keep the crates coming. Im a responsible adult and i want them to be available should i wish to purchase them.

People can literally give me cancer legally (even though i dont smoke) and you think i shouldnt have crates available. what a crappy society.

There are "no smoking" areas due to laws, which in my state all businesses have to be smoke free for this reason unless they have special requested to allow smoking and want to hurt their sales by doing so(less people smoke these days than don't, or at least smoke less than chainsmokers).

And yes, society can't have certain fun things because people lack mental capacity unless a 40 year old teacher taking advantage of a 15 year old student, which the teacher finds fun, is perfectly legal; it's illegal for a reason.

Welcome to the world where people take advantage of other people all the time and the only thing protecting individual people are bigger groups of people that band together and make laws that force everyone to behave against the nature of some of those people to misbehave.

Who was it that said "life isn't fair" in this thread or another like it?
Which is it? Is life actually fair and nobody gets taken advantage of by individuals or companies or is life not fair and we need to strive for fairness and fight things that are unfair? Should we allow ourselves to be *** and killed or speak out and stop people from kidnapping or punching us because that comes before *** and murder?
Should we allow ourselves to be ripped off and drained of our hard earned money slowly until they decide to just use our credit card info to outright steal from us(which company employees could do and have done with other companies, like the Target stores mess, or Wells Fargo opening fraudulent accounts as a company directive) or should we speak up when the "load becomes heavy" before "the straw that broke the camel's back".


I'm not one to be boiled slowly like the frog, but you are. You won't cry out until they toss you into already boiling water.
That makes you oblivious until something is stupidly obvious.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

One day. We can only dream. Justice will be done.

Cadbury

So when do the arrests start?

ManwithBeard9

Cadbury wrote: »

So when do the arrests start?

They don't

OrdoHermetica

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

So when do the arrests start?

They don't

This. We're talking fines and legal action here, not melodramatic scenes of executives being taken away in chains.

JimT722

With EA removing loot boxes from games and announcing future games as loot box free... I would feel more comfortable buying a product from EA than ZOS.

That is saying something. This games micro transactions are some of the most greedy I have ever seen. This of course doesn’t include f2p but there are better games there as well which is just sad.

notimetocare

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Crown crates in ESO are far from "predatory gambling boxes" so I doubt it'll touch them in any way.

You have no idea.
I myself have spent over $200 on crown crates, pretty much exclusively on the first season Storm Atronach. I was just trying to get the Storm Atronach Wolf, Bear and Senche. I only spent that high to get them.
I could have bought those same mounts at the highest mount price we have seen for maybe 5000 crowns each and only spent $100-$120, which is still too much for 3 mounts. This is why it is only viable to spend on crown sales if at all.

I only bought the crates under the assumption that "it won't take that many to get because they wouldn't be so rare that I would spend more than a direct purchase", but I was so deluded.
That's what they hoped for.


This is why they ARE gambling and should be illegal. They are, in fact, worse than gambling because you almost never get equal or greater value in return for your investment unlike actual casinos that are legally, at least in the US, required to pay out 95% of their gambling revenue to the gamblers in some way(as I remember it). These crates do not "pay out" to that standard.
WORSE, when the game ends for whatever reason then we lose all value of the items so the payout is then 0%.

These need to be regulated. There is no argument, only "a sucker is born every minute"(P.T. Barnum) that falls for the tricks and lies that marketing does.

Your, or another persons ignorance, is not a reason something should be illegal. Nor should they be regulated. Government will not fix people's stupidity.

Dutch government just tried this, so we will see how it plays out. I imagine, worse for consumers of whatever games are going to be changed.

So we should sell cigarettes to children again because they're ignorant of the dangers?

Seriously, that was too easy.


Also, I happened to have the crowns mostly on sale when I bought them for those crates back then, so I spent $200 that was more like $400. And I may be low-balling the amount since I try to forget how much I wasted on crap drops to get the few things I wanted.

Sure. You think age restriction really helped with smoking? I bet you think prohibition stopped beer and liquor sales too...

notimetocare

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

Coolits wrote: »

Belgium have finished their investigation into lootboxes and has found them to be illegal warning several games companies to remove them or face upto a 5 year prizon sentince and an 800k euro fine.

First the Dutch and now Belgium, I'm sure many more contries will follow.

Its unbelievable you people support government regulations in video games.

Unbelievable that we ask the government to step in and help us when we can't solve the problem ourselves.
Do you never ever want the police to ever help you if somebody ever tries to harm you?
Does your internet provider not have a monopoly in your area where they could raise your rates 10 times what they are if they wanted and were not regulated by the government? Mine does.

Government can and does do good things, but nobody ever thinks of them in that way unless they actually feel wronged by somebody.


So yes, I'm all for government regulation of online games when the online game companies prove they can't self-regulate.
So many people claim "you can't control yourselves and stop purchasing crown crates" as the problem with the crown crates but then the developers "can't control themselves when they make crown crates with expensive crap drop rates just to rip people off". Both sides are wrong with the one side being completely non-existent without the other, meaning nobody would be "unable to stop buying" if there wasn't something they shouldn't be buying but can.

Govt regulation helps support monopolies...

Thannazzar

ESO is PEGI 18 rated so discussions about children being manipulated into gamble crates are moot. If you let your child play the game it's your lookout.

Charliff1966

Thannazzar wrote: »

ESO is PEGI 18 rated so discussions about children being manipulated into gamble crates are moot. If you let your child play the game it's your lookout.

Some parents apparently need their hands hold or learn how to raise a kid. If my kids would use my creditcard without consent they would be in deep trouble. It would also mean they dont have a console any longer. And they know it.

Heka Cain

Do I think it's currently illegal? No, clearly not or they wouldn't be doing it!

^^
Brilliant sense of humour sir; just brilliant! Thank you for the levity you have brought here on this gloriously sunny day!

Elsonso

Thannazzar wrote: »

ESO is PEGI 18 rated so discussions about children being manipulated into gamble crates are moot.

Not at all. PEGI-18 is not a shield against laws and regulations. Sure, they can point to it and say that minors are not supposed to be playing the game, but that loses weight real quick if ZOS habitually doesn't care and doesn't take action when minors play the game.

Mystrius_Archaion

Thannazzar wrote: »

ESO is PEGI 18 rated so discussions about children being manipulated into gamble crates are moot. If you let your child play the game it's your lookout.

Then the parents would be legally liable for jail time and losing their kids for negligence.

This has to be policed like anything in this world that is obviously something many people agree "should be resisted" even if those people claim "it's the fault of the weak willed for their own lack of reistance" since that is only an excuse that does not excuse the ones exploiting the weak willed.

That was why my above argument about selling cigarettes to children. It wasn't about letting them buy them but the fact that marketers actually targeted children intentionally with advertisements.

Anybody else remember this scene from Mrs Doubtfire? Comedy is always pointing out the stupidity of our lives.
Mrs Doubtfire, smoking bird

Mystrius_Archaion

notimetocare wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

Coolits wrote: »

Belgium have finished their investigation into lootboxes and has found them to be illegal warning several games companies to remove them or face upto a 5 year prizon sentince and an 800k euro fine.

First the Dutch and now Belgium, I'm sure many more contries will follow.

Its unbelievable you people support government regulations in video games.

Unbelievable that we ask the government to step in and help us when we can't solve the problem ourselves.
Do you never ever want the police to ever help you if somebody ever tries to harm you?
Does your internet provider not have a monopoly in your area where they could raise your rates 10 times what they are if they wanted and were not regulated by the government? Mine does.

Government can and does do good things, but nobody ever thinks of them in that way unless they actually feel wronged by somebody.


So yes, I'm all for government regulation of online games when the online game companies prove they can't self-regulate.
So many people claim "you can't control yourselves and stop purchasing crown crates" as the problem with the crown crates but then the developers "can't control themselves when they make crown crates with expensive crap drop rates just to rip people off". Both sides are wrong with the one side being completely non-existent without the other, meaning nobody would be "unable to stop buying" if there wasn't something they shouldn't be buying but can.

Govt regulation helps support monopolies...

No, companies lobbying government for changes that the government corruptly accepts money for and/or doesn't consider every angle(because humans are flawed) support monopolies.
Government actually fights against monopolies to the point of breaking up companies. Anybody else remember the story of AT&T being broken up? That's just the most obvious example.
I actually work for a rather large company that was denied a merger in the last 3 years with another large company because it had the potential to create a monopoly. They had to then merge with another competitor, which was approved because the resulting merged company was not the largest as their previous merging partner was the largest already so it would have put the company far ahead of every other.

You don't know enough about how the law works or how people think and act. People are almost always selfish and the laws actually also come from selfishness. The difference being that laws are made to keep other selfish people from exploiting selfish people who want to also be able to exploit others but if they can't do that then they just don't want others to exploit themselves.
It's the argument "if I can't have it then nobody can" that is the true instinctual basis of most laws that fight the other base instinct of "I don't want anybody else to have what I have" because the latter supports the minority and the former supports the majority.

Mystrius_Archaion

notimetocare wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Crown crates in ESO are far from "predatory gambling boxes" so I doubt it'll touch them in any way.

You have no idea.
I myself have spent over $200 on crown crates, pretty much exclusively on the first season Storm Atronach. I was just trying to get the Storm Atronach Wolf, Bear and Senche. I only spent that high to get them.
I could have bought those same mounts at the highest mount price we have seen for maybe 5000 crowns each and only spent $100-$120, which is still too much for 3 mounts. This is why it is only viable to spend on crown sales if at all.

I only bought the crates under the assumption that "it won't take that many to get because they wouldn't be so rare that I would spend more than a direct purchase", but I was so deluded.
That's what they hoped for.


This is why they ARE gambling and should be illegal. They are, in fact, worse than gambling because you almost never get equal or greater value in return for your investment unlike actual casinos that are legally, at least in the US, required to pay out 95% of their gambling revenue to the gamblers in some way(as I remember it). These crates do not "pay out" to that standard.
WORSE, when the game ends for whatever reason then we lose all value of the items so the payout is then 0%.

These need to be regulated. There is no argument, only "a sucker is born every minute"(P.T. Barnum) that falls for the tricks and lies that marketing does.

Your, or another persons ignorance, is not a reason something should be illegal. Nor should they be regulated. Government will not fix people's stupidity.

Dutch government just tried this, so we will see how it plays out. I imagine, worse for consumers of whatever games are going to be changed.

So we should sell cigarettes to children again because they're ignorant of the dangers?

Seriously, that was too easy.


Also, I happened to have the crowns mostly on sale when I bought them for those crates back then, so I spent $200 that was more like $400. And I may be low-balling the amount since I try to forget how much I wasted on crap drops to get the few things I wanted.

Sure. You think age restriction really helped with smoking? I bet you think prohibition stopped beer and liquor sales too...

See my above post. Age restriction of targeted advertising, which was my point, did help stop underage smoking.

After all, why do children speak the language of their parents and/or the most common language of the country they are born in? They learn while growing up doing it naturally without any conscious thought as to "maybe I want to speak a different language" which they can then choose later to learn a different language but most don't.

Most people are lazy and very impressionable at earlier ages or even their entire life. It's just a matter of knowing how to "work them".


This is just this company "working you over" so that you actually help them try to also work us over into blindly throwing money at them and then turning around and ridiculing other people for not being "worked over sheep".

So yes, I find your point of view ridiculously predictable and gullible.


Edit:
FYI, prohibition didn't work because it was legal before so people were already addicted and willing to buy from illegal suppliers who knew better and didn't need to sell but chose to hide from the law.
It wasn't as if those sellers were doing something legal and good for the people. They knew it wasn't what they were supposed to do. They just didn't care and knew buyers were too addicted to stop.
Also after prohibition, alcohol wasn't made completely legal for all ages to drink as much as they want and drive after or whatever else. It still is age restricted and legal to drink as much as you want over that age but not while doing certain other activities that would be severely impaired by it.
Not to mention a very large amount of the deaths related to alcohol are pedestrians, people outside a vehicle, that are often drunk themselves and stumble into traffic or are not functioning enough to remember "don't play in traffic" that they were taught as children.
The alcohol producers know their product is impairing and bad for people, but they just don't care so laws step in and restrict them as much as people will allow.

So actually, the prohibition reference is supporting the argument that these lootboxes are exploitative and should be illegal to be in a game rated as low as this one without any effective means of stopping minors or addicts from ruining their financials without the will or knowledge to stop themselves.

Stopnaggin

Just 2 cents. But as an adult I dont need the government any more into my business than what they already are. I'm not gonna sit here and use those people with addictive personalities as an excuse for anything. I buy crates when I feel like it. The others that can't control themselves should seek help from a professional or family member. Taking away my rights to buy something because someone else doesnt like it falls flat to me. You wanna slap odds on the crates? I'm fine with that. You wanna add warning messages or up the games rating? I'm fine with that. But it still my right to choose what I do with my money. I don't need the govt telling how I need to spend my spare cash.

Nobody in here can say for sure if the crates became illegal that those items would be sold outright for x amount of crowns. Nobody can say if they would sell more and make more. Its an assumption used to justify your argument. I've seen so many people cry about the price of mounts and other junk so I'm sure if they priced them high enough to keep the same profit margin thoae people would be whining all over these forums.

Bottom line is I don't need some overpaid politician involved in how I spend my money. You want regulations and out right banishment because you dont like it. Stop putting it on addicts and children. If we banned everything that Could possibly be harmful we would live in a very bland sad world. I'm a parent and I will teach my own kids what I believe and my own values. Because god knows thw govt we have now is now shinning example of humanity.

Stewart1874

I just don't get the vigorous defence by some of crown crates, seriously, its verging on desperate and pathetic. What do they think is going to happen? They'll get a cheeky wee message from ZO$ 'Psst, cheers for sticking up for our exploitation of the playerbase, heres a code for some crates '.

You can either earn something through hard work or spend money effectively rolling dice on whether you are lucky to get it or not. What is more satisfying?

When I see someone roaming about on a radiant Apex mount my first thought isn't 'holy *** thats cool' its 'what sad *** has remortgaged their house to get that?'. Spending money to 'unlock' - and I use that term in the loosest possible way, is not rewarding and not something that should be proudly shown off. Its not a marker of skill, its a marker of having more disposable income than other players. In a game this shouldn't be a factor and its utterly pathetic this is the road ZOS want to go down.