Response to the Veteran Hard Mode Asylum Sanctorium Trial Exploit - Nov. 10

Woeler

Karivaa wrote: »

I heard alcast used a mod on pc to complete it. On Xbox we have no mods.

Comments like this is why people hate console players.

Elsonso

Cubagaming wrote: »

This is another example of zos choosing when to ban someone instead of the actual problems that lie in the game. Good job zos! Good job!

They need to do both, and in this case, they did.

StackonClown

I am personally on PC NA but feel console players are more skillful overall to be able to play just as well as PC players without any addons...

I couldn't live without my PC addons but hats off to the top console players for showing pure skill with a vanilla interface!

Tasear

Loc2262 wrote: »

@Zer0oo: You said it yourself. Killing a boss from outside the room is clearly a massive intentional abuse of a bug. This is not like getting a nodeath in Darkshade Caverns despite someone died, or skipping the arena in Mazzatun by jumping up a tree. This is completing a whole trial, the most difficult content in the game currently, without actually fighting. The difference is severity is so extreme here that I agree a ban was warranted.

The tree was smart play yet removed...but the other....

On point they probably warranted such a ban. I am sure theirs details we aren't seeing, but still could of been better in sequence of events.

Was it true that this bug was reported already on pts? Why wasn't it handled before hand.

Why is that I can report a bug such the one giving purple undaunted dallies day of the bug, but goes unhanded for four months until one guy reports in general section of forums four months later and it's 24 hours later?

So what concerns me is scope. Why was this one handled and not others? If it about newer content then what about blood root bug or falkreath no deaths or hardmode and speed run of veteran Asylum while right boss was bugged.? So yeah ban was approiate but at the same time it would be nice to see some protocol.

Tl:Dr fix in game reporting... it's clearly not working as attended.

Elsonso

Tasear wrote: »

Was it true that this bug was reported already on pts? Why wasn't it handled before hand.

First, it can take a couple of weeks, or longer, for a bug to get scheduled and fixed, so by the time things get to PTS, it is possible to have bugs that cannot be fixed before it goes Live.

Why can it take a couple of weeks? The bug has to be analyzed to determine what is wrong and how it can be fixed. Then it has to be stacked against all of the other work that needs to be done to determine when it can be fixed. It needs to be paired with the proper developers to do the fix, since not everyone in the Studio can fix every problem. Sometimes, it takes more than one person from different fields to fix a bug. Setting the priority relative to other work for a particular bug can be guesswork, unless it is looked at in hindsight. In hindsight, it is easy to properly set the priority.

Last, ZOS is a slave to the calendar. This means that if the calendar says that a developer has 20 hours to fix bugs, and the first bug takes 20 hours to fix, only one bug gets fixed, no matter how many of them there are.

BlazingDynamo

Woeler wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

I heard alcast used a mod on pc to complete it. On Xbox we have no mods.

Comments like this is why people hate console players.

Only pc players who know the truth in the comment hate console players.

Prove us wrong and beat the next trial without the use of a single addon. Wont happen. Can't happen. Gotta have them big bubble words telling you who the world shaper is aiming for..lol

Urza1234

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

Agree, just temp ban them and take the achievement away. The people who abused this exploit had absolutely no reason to expect this level of disciplinary action, as they received no warning, and there was little to no precedent from ZOS.

Punishment is only effective as a method of behavioral conditioning when the application is consistent and predictable. This sort of reflexive and impulsive response from ZOS accomplishes nothing, since the perpetrators will not have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes in the context of ESO, and this sort of situation is unlikely to arise again for 99% of other players out there.

paulsimonps

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

I heard alcast used a mod on pc to complete it. On Xbox we have no mods.

Comments like this is why people hate console players.

Only pc players who know the truth in the comment hate console players.

Prove us wrong and beat the next trial without the use of a single addon. Wont happen. Can't happen. Gotta have them big bubble words telling you who the world shaper is aiming for..lol

You do know there was a time before raid notifier was a thing, before console was a thing. We still did Trials then too you know. As well, Addons=/=Mods.

Ashtaris

Urza1234 wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

Agree, just temp ban them and take the achievement away. The people who abused this exploit had absolutely no reason to expect this level of disciplinary action, as they received no warning, and there was little to no precedent from ZOS.

Punishment is only effective as a method of behavioral conditioning when the application is consistent and predictable. This sort of reflexive and impulsive response from ZOS accomplishes nothing, since the perpetrators will not have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes in the context of ESO, and this sort of situation is unlikely to arise again for 99% of other players out there.

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

I heard alcast used a mod on pc to complete it. On Xbox we have no mods.

Comments like this is why people hate console players.

Only pc players who know the truth in the comment hate console players.

Prove us wrong and beat the next trial without the use of a single addon. Wont happen. Can't happen. Gotta have them big bubble words telling you who the world shaper is aiming for..lol

And I'm absolutely convinced that if add-ons were suddenly available to the console crowd you would refuse to use them, correct? Things like Combat Metrics and other add-on's help you become a better player, but they don't make the player. Doesn't matter how many add-on's I use, I still suck in some combat situations

BlazingDynamo

Ashtaris wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

lynog85 wrote: »

Perma bans way too harsh imo. Zos are releasing unfinished content with these exploits only being possible because of THEM. I hope all accounts who done this get it overturned.

Agree, just temp ban them and take the achievement away. The people who abused this exploit had absolutely no reason to expect this level of disciplinary action, as they received no warning, and there was little to no precedent from ZOS.

Punishment is only effective as a method of behavioral conditioning when the application is consistent and predictable. This sort of reflexive and impulsive response from ZOS accomplishes nothing, since the perpetrators will not have the opportunity to learn from their mistakes in the context of ESO, and this sort of situation is unlikely to arise again for 99% of other players out there.

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

I heard alcast used a mod on pc to complete it. On Xbox we have no mods.

Comments like this is why people hate console players.

Only pc players who know the truth in the comment hate console players.

Prove us wrong and beat the next trial without the use of a single addon. Wont happen. Can't happen. Gotta have them big bubble words telling you who the world shaper is aiming for..lol

And I'm absolutely convinced that if add-ons were suddenly available to the console crowd you would refuse to use them, correct? Things like Combat Metrics and other add-on's help you become a better player, but they don't make the player. Doesn't matter how many add-on's I use, I still suck in some combat situations

Combat metrics gives you priceless information. Raid notifier makes you a lazier player. Why pay attention to the raid when the mechanics can be flashed in front of you?

If console had addons I'd be down right stupid not to use them, why be at a disadvantage to others? My opinion stands regardless, addons that provide aid in combat shouldn't be allowed and pc players who use such that have the guts to knock on a console player are laughable at best.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom you spelt trails wrong

Mackin365

doesnt seem like cheating if the game lets you do it. I mean if they had to hack or enter a cheat code thats cheating but finding a cheese the game let you do and the devs were to sloppy to discover is just that a cheese.

You shouldnt get punished for something the game let you do. If I could kill all the bosses in the game from the comfort of my in game home with snipe and the game let me do it thats the devs fault. All the haters on here celebrating are just that haters who get off on other peoples problems.

ESO should focus on delivering complete content and fixing the already broken content. They did you a favor by exploiting the trial.

ManwithBeard9

Mackin365 wrote: »

doesnt seem like cheating if the game lets you do it. I mean if they had to hack or enter a cheat code thats cheating but finding a cheese the game let you do and the devs were to sloppy to discover is just that a cheese.

You shouldnt get punished for something the game let you do. If I could kill all the bosses in the game from the comfort of my in game home with snipe and the game let me do it thats the devs fault. All the haters on here celebrating are just that haters who get off on other peoples problems.

ESO should focus on delivering complete content and fixing the already broken content. They did you a favor by exploiting the trial.

That is completely opposite of what you agreed to in the ToS

Motherball

paulsimonps wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Might want to fix the exploit before you ban people next time, because this just makes everyone at the company look spiteful and inept, imo.

“Hey guys, there is an exploit in the game, and this is exactly how it works, but dont do it because even though we havent figured out how to fix it, we will be watching you.”

They never told anyone how to do it, its against their terms of service to distribute information about how to exploit things

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them

paulsimonps

Motherball wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Motherball wrote: »

Might want to fix the exploit before you ban people next time, because this just makes everyone at the company look spiteful and inept, imo.

“Hey guys, there is an exploit in the game, and this is exactly how it works, but dont do it because even though we havent figured out how to fix it, we will be watching you.”

They never told anyone how to do it, its against their terms of service to distribute information about how to exploit things

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them

@Motherball That does in no way explain how to do it..... It was a multi step exploit....

Dolgubon

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Karivaa wrote: »

I heard alcast used a mod on pc to complete it. On Xbox we have no mods.

Comments like this is why people hate console players.

Only pc players who know the truth in the comment hate console players.

Prove us wrong and beat the next trial without the use of a single addon. Wont happen. Can't happen. Gotta have them big bubble words telling you who the world shaper is aiming for..lol

First of all, Mods are different from addons - addons can generally only affect the user interface. Second, world shaper is a newer addition to raid notifier, and prior to that no one had any such thing. It also doesn't tell you who it is aiming for. Third, first clears on PC will usually be without addons, because it takes time to make them. There's also many people who don't use/don't trust addons.

Addons do admittedly provide an actual advantage, but I think you overestimate how much of an advantage they give. They don't trivialize trials, and most players who have done trials could do it without addons. (Albeit with a bit more practice in the case of some mechanics like the twins swapping)

potirondb16_ESO

Honestly guys, I don't believe you have figure out how bad this is. The exploit is not a player related scenario, it is a developer related scenario. At some point, I'll be a 100% behind you if you banned those people for a week and took away all there reward and achievement. This would have been a great respond to a bug that weaken the game reward system.

I don't want to get personal, but you know that there are some bug which are currently bothering a lot of player. In that regard if you are not flawless don't blame people for it. As Einstein said, Weak person get revenge, Strong people forgive, intelligent people let go.

idk

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly guys, I don't believe you have figure out how bad this is. The exploit is not a player related scenario, it is a developer related scenario. At some point, I'll be a 100% behind you if you banned those people for a week and took away all there reward and achievement. This would have been a great respond to a bug that weaken the game reward system.

I don't want to get personal, but you know that there are some bug which are currently bothering a lot of player. In that regard if you are not flawless don't blame people for it. As Einstein said, Weak person get revenge, Strong people forgive, intelligent people let go.

No. That a player could do it was developed related. The fact that the players chose to take advantage of it and not report it made it an offense worthy of the ban hammer.

To think otherwise is to think those kids that did this, openly bragged about it and some sold clears via it, are just a bunch of ignorant kids. They were not and they knew what they were doing.

ManwithBeard9

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly guys, I don't believe you have figure out how bad this is. The exploit is not a player related scenario, it is a developer related scenario. At some point, I'll be a 100% behind you if you banned those people for a week and took away all there reward and achievement. This would have been a great respond to a bug that weaken the game reward system.

I don't want to get personal, but you know that there are some bug which are currently bothering a lot of player. In that regard if you are not flawless don't blame people for it. As Einstein said, Weak person get revenge, Strong people forgive, intelligent people let go.

It doesn't matter what the devs do, YOU ARE UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOWED TO EXPLOIT! It is in the ToS you agreed to.

Mackin365

It doesn't matter what the devs do, YOU ARE UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOWED TO EXPLOIT! It is in the ToS you agreed to.[/quote]



Again I dont believe it is an exploit but a cheese even if it ended up being called one. In VDSA you take last boss to the door and the healer tanks while the tank tanks the 2 adds, is this an exploit? I am sure it is not what the devs had in mind when they designed the mechanics of the fight but that is what peeps do.

I can go on and on about similar things, really the end result is the devs got their feelings hurt over their new design that was supposed to be more difficult then b4 and since the news was out about it from the PC fellas the hammer droped on the counsel players. If I log-in an get endless emails full of gold from my hiring am I obligated to let the game know?

Maybe, but hell no.

Destruent

Mackin365 wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the devs do, YOU ARE UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ALLOWED TO EXPLOIT! It is in the ToS you agreed to.

Again I dont believe it is an exploit but a cheese even if it ended up being called one. In VDSA you take last boss to the door and the healer tanks while the tank tanks the 2 adds, is this an exploit? I am sure it is not what the devs had in mind when they designed the mechanics of the fight but that is what peeps do.

I can go on and on about similar things, really the end result is the devs got their feelings hurt over their new design that was supposed to be more difficult then b4 and since the news was out about it from the PC fellas the hammer droped on the counsel players. If I log-in an get endless emails full of gold from my hiring am I obligated to let the game know?

Maybe, but hell no.

sure...killing a boss without him fighting back at all or doing it's mechanics is just another way of killing it...no reason to even think about exploiting here...

regarding vDSA: it may not be the designed way of killing the boss, but it's just a strategy while using the designed mechaincs of this boss...

oh and btw.: if ZOS calls something exploit, it mostlikely is, bc only they do know which mechanics are intended and how things are supposed to work...

bluejet95

Why are they back in game?

kyle.wilson

bluejet95 wrote: »

Why are they back in game?

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Any truth in this? Because, this is why they did it in the first place if its true.

ManwithBeard9

kyle.wilson wrote: »

bluejet95 wrote: »

Why are they back in game?

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Any truth in this? Because, this is why they did it in the first place if its true.

"They" could very well be back, just not on the accounts that were banned. If its the same accounts, thats an issue. If they bought other accounts, thats fine.

Balthyzar

I don't know what the definition of permaban is to zos but it surely isn't the one week ban that players that used the exploit on xbox got after being told their account was permanently banned. I'm happy to have some of these people back but dang zos, way to stick to your guns... or not.

ManwithBeard9

Balthyzar wrote: »

I don't know what the definition of permaban is to zos but it surely isn't the one week ban that players that used the exploit on xbox got after being told their account was permanently banned. I'm happy to have some of these people back but dang zos, way to stick to your guns... or not.

If you have proof that the exact accounts that were banned are in use again, forward screen caps and info to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and or @ZOS_GinaBruno

Thats assuming youre not just s-posting.

Buffler

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Balthyzar wrote: »

I don't know what the definition of permaban is to zos but it surely isn't the one week ban that players that used the exploit on xbox got after being told their account was permanently banned. I'm happy to have some of these people back but dang zos, way to stick to your guns... or not.

If you have proof that the exact accounts that were banned are in use again, forward screen caps and info to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and or @ZOS_GinaBruno

Thats assuming youre not just s-posting.

I posted 3 days after the bannings that they were back on xbox. Perma ban means nothing and guess what, im not naming them as it should not have been a "perma ban" to begin with.

Elsonso

Buffler wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

Balthyzar wrote: »

I don't know what the definition of permaban is to zos but it surely isn't the one week ban that players that used the exploit on xbox got after being told their account was permanently banned. I'm happy to have some of these people back but dang zos, way to stick to your guns... or not.

If you have proof that the exact accounts that were banned are in use again, forward screen caps and info to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and or @ZOS_GinaBruno

Thats assuming youre not just s-posting.

I posted 3 days after the bannings that they were back on xbox. Perma ban means nothing and guess what, im not naming them as it should not have been a "perma ban" to begin with.

I agree. Please do not name them. The forum staff has the reputation for being both quick and effective. If they permanently ban a forum account, I would not assume it to be a temporary thing.

I do expect that ZOS unbanned some, or all, of the 'permanently banned' accounts (people were not banned). If they had not, you can bet that Jessica or Gina would have been on the forum commenting about it. This is one of the reasons why people don't believe them when they say strong words about the studio being serious about cheating. It's not that they are necessarily lying. I am sure it is true when they say it. I just assume that they will change their mind about it.

Mackin365

It sad so many of you are so happy about their bans. ZOS shouldn't be putting out a broken game that allowed for them to do whatever they did.

Really I dont care if the were under ground some how if the game let them get there that's the games fault sounds like the played within the perimeters allowed at the time.

[Edit to remove bashing]

The_Brosteen

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI&t=431s

I really think you guys should reconsider perma bans for 1st time offenders. I mean put yourself in these peoples position, you are doing a trial and stumble on a way to just kill the bosses without dying.. YES this is wrong, YES this is stupid, but malicious? I dont think so..

These guys made a stupid decision, yes i get that. But for you to ban a 1st time offender for an IN GAME EXPLOIT, not even cheat engine or an outside program, is just terrible. I mean they stumbled onto it in game. Obviously they should have reported it and not done the trial but they didnt, yes it was wrong, but a perma ban is so harsh! I Know you guys want to make a statement because of the community mob that is upset, but you should take your stand against outside program hacks and cheats!! Not 1st time offenders using an exploit they stumbled onto a COUPLE days after the update..

Idk, i linked the video above from fengrush because this is a similar situation.. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys, in the past, have unbanned people for using outside cheats on PC.. But yet you say you will NOT look at an appeal for these guys on console? Why? Idk i just think if you guys try to put yourself in these peoples situation you will see that they were NOT malicious like people who have used cheats and been unbanned... Yes they were stupid, but not malicious. You guys are to quick to throw around perma bans because people are upset.. You could give them a 1 month ban and strip their stuff from the trial... You could make it so they could never get the skin or weapons again.. Hell, you could perma ban the character they were on, with all there trial gear, and give them a 1 month account ban.. These are things that you could do instead of PERMA BANNING 1st time offenders.. People spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game i just think the least you can do is give them 1 strike and their out..

People should watch that video, its a very similar situation.. Idk, i guess i just feel bad for these people because everyone makes stupid mistakes.. These guys didnt get an outside program to cheat at the game, they found a glitch and made a stupid call to not report it but a perma ban is to harsh, with no appeal, especially considering the past.. Also, this is scary to me because there have been exploits in the past, like keep jumping, that were very vague if it was an exploit.. The fact that they perma ban for exploits means that anyone could get caught up in an "exploit" one day and be perma banned..

We hear you, @itzTJ, and we didn't make this decision lightly. This particular exploit and the repercussions were particularly severe (unlocking an extremely difficult-to-get achievement and reward.) We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

You say you crack down on bots but over the past two weeks I have reported the same group of players botting in deeshan about 7 times. Nothing. It is not hard to look into these reports, you can simply travel to these players and watch them for a few minutes. Or you can look at their logs and see that their actions resemble botting behavior.

If you aren't serious about these things you might as well overturn these perma bans, it's not fair to those players if zos is not going to follow through with what is said in all instances.

I fear that those perma bans were really just a move for some positive perception points because this was during the height of the loading screen issues. If nothing is continually done about these bots then that theory starts to make more and more sense.