Response to the Veteran Hard Mode Asylum Sanctorium Trial Exploit - Nov. 10

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Jake1576 wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We checked in with our Support team this morning and got confirmation that we have not overturned any of the bans we issued for this exploit. All of the accounts we banned for exploiting this bug are still banned, and we intend to keep it that way. The individuals who took advantage of this exploit had to do some very specific, deliberate things to make the bug happen, then spend time very slowly working down the boss from where he could not attack them. It was not a situation where someone accidentally stumbled upon a bug and used it without knowing what they were doing.

Now, it is possible that some of the banned individuals purchased a new account and returned to the game on brand new characters. That is permitted. They are not blacklisted from the game for all time - they just lost the accounts on which they abused this exploit.

Wait so does that mean buying and selling an account is allowed I always thought it wasn't allowed

No no no, buying and selling accounts is a bannable offense. Sorry, that was worded poorly. It should say "purchased the game again and returned to the game on a brand new account." I'll edit it so it's more clear.

eso_lags

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI&t=431s

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I really think you guys should reconsider perma bans for 1st time offenders. I mean put yourself in these peoples position, you are doing a trial and stumble on a way to just kill the bosses without dying.. YES this is wrong, YES this is stupid, but malicious? I dont think so..

These guys made a stupid decision, yes i get that. But for you to ban a 1st time offender for an IN GAME EXPLOIT, not even cheat engine or an outside program, is just terrible. I mean they stumbled onto it in game. Obviously they should have reported it and not done the trial but they didnt, yes it was wrong, but a perma ban is so harsh! I Know you guys want to make a statement because of the community mob that is upset, but you should take your stand against outside program hacks and cheats!! Not 1st time offenders using an exploit they stumbled onto a COUPLE days after the update..

Idk, i linked the video above from fengrush because this is a similar situation.. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys, in the past, have unbanned people for using outside cheats on PC.. But yet you say you will NOT look at an appeal for these guys on console? Why? Idk i just think if you guys try to put yourself in these peoples situation you will see that they were NOT malicious like people who have used cheats and been unbanned... Yes they were stupid, but not malicious. You guys are to quick to throw around perma bans because people are upset.. You could give them a 1 month ban and strip their stuff from the trial... You could make it so they could never get the skin or weapons again.. Hell, you could perma ban the character they were on, with all there trial gear, and give them a 1 month account ban.. These are things that you could do instead of PERMA BANNING 1st time offenders.. People spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game i just think the least you can do is give them 1 strike and their out..

People should watch that video, its a very similar situation.. Idk, i guess i just feel bad for these people because everyone makes stupid mistakes.. These guys didnt get an outside program to cheat at the game, they found a glitch and made a stupid call to not report it but a perma ban is to harsh, with no appeal, especially considering the past.. Also, this is scary to me because there have been exploits in the past, like keep jumping, that were very vague if it was an exploit.. The fact that they perma ban for exploits means that anyone could get caught up in an "exploit" one day and be perma banned..

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Hi everyone,

We completed the fix for this exploit on all servers this morning. As promised, we also checked for anyone who used this exploit over the weekend and have banned additional accounts. We have banned an additional 51 accounts for abusing this exploit as of today, for a total of 85 accounts.

Regarding the questions about botters and other types of cheaters, our Support team runs checks and dishes out bans daily. Your in-game reports greatly help us identify botters and cheaters, so please keep them coming. In cases where you believe someone is cheating in PvP (not botting), submitting a video of the behavior is also very helpful. We always investigate based on the reports we receive. If you have names of players who you believe are botting or cheating in order to mass-farm rare items, please be sure to report them in-game (again, screenshots are helpful.)

Cinbri

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,
As promised, we also checked for anyone who used this exploit over the weekend and have banned additional accounts. We have banned an additional 51 accounts for abusing this exploit as of today, for a total of 85 accounts.

As was expected those exploiters don't posses high enough IQ to understand what will come for them.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom

itzTJ wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI&t=431s

I really think you guys should reconsider perma bans for 1st time offenders. I mean put yourself in these peoples position, you are doing a trial and stumble on a way to just kill the bosses without dying.. YES this is wrong, YES this is stupid, but malicious? I dont think so..

These guys made a stupid decision, yes i get that. But for you to ban a 1st time offender for an IN GAME EXPLOIT, not even cheat engine or an outside program, is just terrible. I mean they stumbled onto it in game. Obviously they should have reported it and not done the trial but they didnt, yes it was wrong, but a perma ban is so harsh! I Know you guys want to make a statement because of the community mob that is upset, but you should take your stand against outside program hacks and cheats!! Not 1st time offenders using an exploit they stumbled onto a COUPLE days after the update..

Idk, i linked the video above from fengrush because this is a similar situation.. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys, in the past, have unbanned people for using outside cheats on PC.. But yet you say you will NOT look at an appeal for these guys on console? Why? Idk i just think if you guys try to put yourself in these peoples situation you will see that they were NOT malicious like people who have used cheats and been unbanned... Yes they were stupid, but not malicious. You guys are to quick to throw around perma bans because people are upset.. You could give them a 1 month ban and strip their stuff from the trial... You could make it so they could never get the skin or weapons again.. Hell, you could perma ban the character they were on, with all there trial gear, and give them a 1 month account ban.. These are things that you could do instead of PERMA BANNING 1st time offenders.. People spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game i just think the least you can do is give them 1 strike and their out..

People should watch that video, its a very similar situation.. Idk, i guess i just feel bad for these people because everyone makes stupid mistakes.. These guys didnt get an outside program to cheat at the game, they found a glitch and made a stupid call to not report it but a perma ban is to harsh, with no appeal, especially considering the past.. Also, this is scary to me because there have been exploits in the past, like keep jumping, that were very vague if it was an exploit.. The fact that they perma ban for exploits means that anyone could get caught up in an "exploit" one day and be perma banned..

We hear you, @itzTJ, and we didn't make this decision lightly. This particular exploit and the repercussions were particularly severe (unlocking an extremely difficult-to-get achievement and reward.) We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

Cadbury

More accounts were banned? Ooooh this is getting spicy!

Destruent

Cinbri wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,
As promised, we also checked for anyone who used this exploit over the weekend and have banned additional accounts. We have banned an additional 51 accounts for abusing this exploit as of today, for a total of 85 accounts.

As was expected those exploiters don't posses high enough IQ to understand what will come for them.

Well deserved i guess

Taysa

So what you're saying is I have to run my recording software 24/7 in the unstable lagfest that's currently PvP (that you guys refuse to fix for whatever reason and it keeps getting worse) just in case I happen to run into said exploiters, then upload said video to my video editing software, spend the time to cut the video, convert the video, upload the video, process the video and send you guys the link before you take my reports seriously?

I have to jump through a thousand hoops when you can easily just send a GM to shadow the person that's being reported, watch them for a few minutes, and draw your own conclusions?

Really? That's your solution?

No wonder cheaters never get banned. (Unless, of course, they're exploiting an ACHIEVEMENT.)

altemriel

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them. This is not only unintended and an exploit, but it cheapens the time and work put in by players who have legitimately beat this fight and earn a very difficult achievement and reward. As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.

34 accounts banned!! wow!!

altemriel

Horowonnoe wrote: »

ZOS nerfhammer is now fully leveled.

finally!!!


Let`s see how the exploiters and cheaters will "run for their lives" away from this game!!!!


exploiter scum!!!

Destruent

altemriel wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them. This is not only unintended and an exploit, but it cheapens the time and work put in by players who have legitimately beat this fight and earn a very difficult achievement and reward. As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.

34 accounts banned!! wow!!

@altemriel + 51 from today

altemriel

Destruent wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Recently, a small number of players discovered a way to kill Saint Olms + 2 (Hard mode in Veteran Asylum Sanctorium) from safely outside his room where he could not attack them. This is not only unintended and an exploit, but it cheapens the time and work put in by players who have legitimately beat this fight and earn a very difficult achievement and reward. As a result, we have permanently banned all players – 34 accounts in all – who used the exploit to complete the kill and earn the special achievement and skin in this way. We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final.

We are working on a fix for this exploit, but we will not be able to deploy it until Monday at the earliest. We will be watching things closely over the weekend. After we deploy the fix on Monday, we will do another audit of kills for this fight. Be warned: we will permanently ban any additional players who use the exploit over the weekend.

34 accounts banned!! wow!!

@altemriel + 51 from today

wow!!!


exploiterHammer finally up!!!

eso_lags

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I know, i mean i see it on your side as well. I get it from both sides, i know you guys have a million people to deal with and you have to take a hard stance against these things or the community will bash you for it (ive seen the cheating thread).. I just feel its too harsh, thats just my opinion.. I think there was other harsh punishments that could be served without a perma ban for a 1st time offender of an exploit. But again, i understand why you guys are doing it.. I know how hard the trial is, i have tried it... I dont know these guys, i just know that people can be idiots and make mistakes.. Either way like i said its obv your call i just wanted to say how i felt about it..

altemriel

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We completed the fix for this exploit on all servers this morning. As promised, we also checked for anyone who used this exploit over the weekend and have banned additional accounts. We have banned an additional 51 accounts for abusing this exploit as of today, for a total of 85 accounts.

Regarding the questions about botters and other types of cheaters, our Support team runs checks and dishes out bans daily. Your in-game reports greatly help us identify botters and cheaters, so please keep them coming. In cases where you believe someone is cheating in PvP (not botting), submitting a video of the behavior is also very helpful. We always investigate based on the reports we receive. If you have names of players who you believe are botting or cheating in order to mass-farm rare items, please be sure to report them in-game (again, screenshots are helpful.)

OH YES!!!!

altemriel

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI&t=431s

I really think you guys should reconsider perma bans for 1st time offenders. I mean put yourself in these peoples position, you are doing a trial and stumble on a way to just kill the bosses without dying.. YES this is wrong, YES this is stupid, but malicious? I dont think so..

These guys made a stupid decision, yes i get that. But for you to ban a 1st time offender for an IN GAME EXPLOIT, not even cheat engine or an outside program, is just terrible. I mean they stumbled onto it in game. Obviously they should have reported it and not done the trial but they didnt, yes it was wrong, but a perma ban is so harsh! I Know you guys want to make a statement because of the community mob that is upset, but you should take your stand against outside program hacks and cheats!! Not 1st time offenders using an exploit they stumbled onto a COUPLE days after the update..

Idk, i linked the video above from fengrush because this is a similar situation.. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys, in the past, have unbanned people for using outside cheats on PC.. But yet you say you will NOT look at an appeal for these guys on console? Why? Idk i just think if you guys try to put yourself in these peoples situation you will see that they were NOT malicious like people who have used cheats and been unbanned... Yes they were stupid, but not malicious. You guys are to quick to throw around perma bans because people are upset.. You could give them a 1 month ban and strip their stuff from the trial... You could make it so they could never get the skin or weapons again.. Hell, you could perma ban the character they were on, with all there trial gear, and give them a 1 month account ban.. These are things that you could do instead of PERMA BANNING 1st time offenders.. People spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game i just think the least you can do is give them 1 strike and their out..

People should watch that video, its a very similar situation.. Idk, i guess i just feel bad for these people because everyone makes stupid mistakes.. These guys didnt get an outside program to cheat at the game, they found a glitch and made a stupid call to not report it but a perma ban is to harsh, with no appeal, especially considering the past.. Also, this is scary to me because there have been exploits in the past, like keep jumping, that were very vague if it was an exploit.. The fact that they perma ban for exploits means that anyone could get caught up in an "exploit" one day and be perma banned..

We hear you, @itzTJ, and we didn't make this decision lightly. This particular exploit and the repercussions were particularly severe (unlocking an extremely difficult-to-get achievement and reward.) We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

I agree with itzTJ, that even if exploiting should be taken most seriously, you should thoroughly check the record of an 1st time exploiter, maybe issue a warning and then permaban. As it really can happen, that someone would discover an exploit without even knowing about it.

altemriel

Rarok_Yariy wrote: »

XDragonDoomX wrote: »

you call it:
EXPLOIT
ACTIONS AGAINST THE TERMS
...

But normally you must call it gameplay, because these guys use ONLY game opportunities and nothing else.

They weren't just using game opportunities, they were exploiting - and selling runs, profiting from doing multiple runs to gain others the achieve & skins.

You wrong.

An exploit (from the English verb to exploit, meaning "to use something to one’s own advantage") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or a sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug or vulnerability to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerized). Such behavior frequently includes things like gaining control of a computer system, allowing privilege escalation, or a denial-of-service (DoS or related DDoS) attack. from wiki

It was not exploit, they didn't use any program, don't change game code or files. Players just use game facilities and got banned.

Selling runs for game currency is also allowed.

I have to disagree with you. they have found a bug in the game - which allowed them to take advantage of it and they purposedly misused this bug for their unfair advantage.

Nifty2g

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI&t=431s

I really think you guys should reconsider perma bans for 1st time offenders. I mean put yourself in these peoples position, you are doing a trial and stumble on a way to just kill the bosses without dying.. YES this is wrong, YES this is stupid, but malicious? I dont think so..

These guys made a stupid decision, yes i get that. But for you to ban a 1st time offender for an IN GAME EXPLOIT, not even cheat engine or an outside program, is just terrible. I mean they stumbled onto it in game. Obviously they should have reported it and not done the trial but they didnt, yes it was wrong, but a perma ban is so harsh! I Know you guys want to make a statement because of the community mob that is upset, but you should take your stand against outside program hacks and cheats!! Not 1st time offenders using an exploit they stumbled onto a COUPLE days after the update..

Idk, i linked the video above from fengrush because this is a similar situation.. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys, in the past, have unbanned people for using outside cheats on PC.. But yet you say you will NOT look at an appeal for these guys on console? Why? Idk i just think if you guys try to put yourself in these peoples situation you will see that they were NOT malicious like people who have used cheats and been unbanned... Yes they were stupid, but not malicious. You guys are to quick to throw around perma bans because people are upset.. You could give them a 1 month ban and strip their stuff from the trial... You could make it so they could never get the skin or weapons again.. Hell, you could perma ban the character they were on, with all there trial gear, and give them a 1 month account ban.. These are things that you could do instead of PERMA BANNING 1st time offenders.. People spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game i just think the least you can do is give them 1 strike and their out..

People should watch that video, its a very similar situation.. Idk, i guess i just feel bad for these people because everyone makes stupid mistakes.. These guys didnt get an outside program to cheat at the game, they found a glitch and made a stupid call to not report it but a perma ban is to harsh, with no appeal, especially considering the past.. Also, this is scary to me because there have been exploits in the past, like keep jumping, that were very vague if it was an exploit.. The fact that they perma ban for exploits means that anyone could get caught up in an "exploit" one day and be perma banned..

We hear you, @itzTJ, and we didn't make this decision lightly. This particular exploit and the repercussions were particularly severe (unlocking an extremely difficult-to-get achievement and reward.) We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I will most likely get hate for this comment, but what exactly is severe about this exploit? It's a harmless cosmetic skin, it doesn't provide you any in game advantages or anything like that, they only thing that is severe would be selling runs for gold but that should have a different punishment.

What I'm basically saying is that not all crimes get the same punishment, you don't put a murderer away with someone who stole a lollipop. It's really good that you guys are cracking down on exploiting, but is this just to prove a point? Are all exploits going to be dealt with like this? These players aren't exactly out there to damage the reputation of the game, and I for damn sure am not defending anyone, but to even access this content you have to have a subscription or either paid for it.

But I think enforcing a punishment like this is a bit over the top, why can't you just ban for several weeks and also remove the skin from the accounts, and take additional punishment to those who have had multiple warnings etc instead of pigeonholing this whole exploit into the same category of permanently losing there account.

And again this goes back to cheat engine and using 3rd party software, this exploit is basically receiving the highest level of punishment which is to lose your account, so it's basically on the same level as hacking the game. I don't see why a cosmetic item would result you in losing an account.

That's just my stance on it, and before anyone gets all angry, they still deserve to be punished obviously but losing an account over this, that's a bit far. If ZOS are deciding to take a stance on exploiting (good for them), they really need to put in a system so they don't result in what I said earlier, murderers getting the same punishment as someone who steals a lollipop.

rhapsodious

Taysa wrote: »

So what you're saying is I have to run my recording software 24/7 in the unstable lagfest that's currently PvP (that you guys refuse to fix for whatever reason and it keeps getting worse) just in case I happen to run into said exploiters, then upload said video to my video editing software, spend the time to cut the video, convert the video, upload the video, process the video and send you guys the link before you take my reports seriously?

I have to jump through a thousand hoops when you can easily just send a GM to shadow the person that's being reported, watch them for a few minutes, and draw your own conclusions?

Really? That's your solution?

No wonder cheaters never get banned. (Unless, of course, they're exploiting an ACHIEVEMENT.)

From their point of view, video evidence is easier to look at and verify that something is fishy in order to follow up on, as opposed to a random report saying "this guy is cheating" which might as well be from someone salty that they died.

Not saying that reports of cheating don't have merit, they're just much easier to verify when corroborated with video evidence. It is a pain to have to constantly be at the mercy of your recording software, though. There's been times when all I have is a screenshot that barely legitimizes my report.

Recremen

I won't celebrate that more accounts were banned because I think it's a tragedy that people didn't learn the lesson from the first round of bans, but it's what must be done. So be it.

RMerlin

altemriel wrote: »

I agree with itzTJ, that even if exploiting should be taken most seriously, you should thoroughly check the record of an 1st time exploiter, maybe issue a warning and then permaban. As it really can happen, that someone would discover an exploit without even knowing about it.

Then why didn't they report it?

And in this particular case, Jessica and Gina made it clear that it wasn't something you could just do "by accident". Exploiting this particular mechanics required elaborate work.

I also felt that a permaban was a bit harsh at first, but then when you read ZOS's rationale behind making it permanent, I can understand their decision.

Nifty2g

RMerlin wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

I agree with itzTJ, that even if exploiting should be taken most seriously, you should thoroughly check the record of an 1st time exploiter, maybe issue a warning and then permaban. As it really can happen, that someone would discover an exploit without even knowing about it.

I also felt that a permaban was a bit harsh at first, but then when you read ZOS's rationale behind making it permanent, I can understand their decision.

Can you though, a cosmetic skin being a severe case to warrant the highest level of punishment the game offers.

Jonno

that "Cosmetic Skin" is priceless right now it would have a severe impact on the economy

WrathOfInnos

Jonno wrote: »

that "Cosmetic Skin" is priceless right now it would have a severe impact on the economy

I don't think they are talking about the polymorph. The skin is not tradeable.

StackonClown

paulsimonps wrote: »

I'm just gonna put this little bit from the terms of service here:

"8. Rules of Conduct
Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to the Services. As noted above, this could result because (i) Your information is untrue, inaccurate, not complete or incomplete; (ii) Your activities infringe on or are suspected to infringe on another's rights or any intellectual property; (iii) ZeniMax in its sole discretion determined that You or Your Account reflects inappropriate Content; or (iv) You or activities taken under or with Your Account violate these Terms of Service. Other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.

You agree not to use any Service to:

• ...
• Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax"

interesting - so

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We completed the fix for this exploit on all servers this morning. As promised, we also checked for anyone who used this exploit over the weekend and have banned additional accounts. We have banned an additional 51 accounts for abusing this exploit as of today, for a total of 85 accounts.

Regarding the questions about botters and other types of cheaters, our Support team runs checks and dishes out bans daily. Your in-game reports greatly help us identify botters and cheaters, so please keep them coming. In cases where you believe someone is cheating in PvP (not botting), submitting a video of the behavior is also very helpful. We always investigate based on the reports we receive. If you have names of players who you believe are botting or cheating in order to mass-farm rare items, please be sure to report them in-game (again, screenshots are helpful.)

Really??

Then please provide details and numbers and reasons for 'dishes out bans daily'!

How about cheat engine? How many people are getting banned?

StackonClown

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We completed the fix for this exploit on all servers this morning. As promised, we also checked for anyone who used this exploit over the weekend and have banned additional accounts. We have banned an additional 51 accounts for abusing this exploit as of today, for a total of 85 accounts.

Regarding the questions about botters and other types of cheaters, our Support team runs checks and *dishes out bans daily*. Your in-game reports greatly help us identify botters and cheaters, so please keep them coming. In cases where you believe someone is cheating in PvP (not botting), submitting a video of the behavior is also very helpful. We always investigate based on the reports we receive. If you have names of players who you believe are botting or cheating in order to mass-farm rare items, please be sure to report them in-game (again, screenshots are helpful.)

Really??

Then please provide details and numbers and reasons for 'dishes out bans daily'!

How about cheat engine? How many people are getting banned? Apparently your systems can detect cheat engine, so noone needs to report it, right ?

Taysa

rhapsodious wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

So what you're saying is I have to run my recording software 24/7 in the unstable lagfest that's currently PvP (that you guys refuse to fix for whatever reason and it keeps getting worse) just in case I happen to run into said exploiters, then upload said video to my video editing software, spend the time to cut the video, convert the video, upload the video, process the video and send you guys the link before you take my reports seriously?

I have to jump through a thousand hoops when you can easily just send a GM to shadow the person that's being reported, watch them for a few minutes, and draw your own conclusions?

Really? That's your solution?

No wonder cheaters never get banned. (Unless, of course, they're exploiting an ACHIEVEMENT.)

From their point of view, video evidence is easier to look at and verify that something is fishy in order to follow up on, as opposed to a random report saying "this guy is cheating" which might as well be from someone salty that they died.

Not saying that reports of cheating don't have merit, they're just much easier to verify when corroborated with video evidence. It is a pain to have to constantly be at the mercy of your recording software, though. There's been times when all I have is a screenshot that barely legitimizes my report.

The reports I personally send in simply don't say "This guy is cheating." There is explicit detail and more than once I've had to tell my guild "brb reporting this guy" so I can type out an explicitly detailed report. And others in my guild have done the same. It's so incredibly easy to decipher who is sending a legit report and who is just salty. But honestly I should just write "This guy is cheating" and leave it at that because the 20+ minutes I've spent detailing a post amounts to the same result as someone who writes a 4 word sentence: Absolutely nothing because there is no video evidence.

"Send us a video" isn't good enough. A lot of players simply don't have the processing power to run video recording software while playing the game. Why should their reports get automatically trashed? No where in the system requirements does it say "You need to be able to run video recording software while you play because we're too lazy to do our jobs correctly."

If a video is required for anything to get done, it's no wonder cheating is as rampant in this game as it is an abandoned Korean PTW MMO.

I'm not saying they should not accept video evidence (like Square Enix would absolutely NOT accept video or screenshot evidence due to photoshopping/video editing bias). But they shouldn't make it a requirement, either. And honestly, you shouldn't have to be a paid content maker to be taken seriously either, as is the case with this "wave" of bans.

Yes, it is an absolute pain to be at the mercy of recording software and waste gigabytes of space on my harddrive. And for what purpose? To make ZoS's job easier? I already pay a subscription and I already buy crowns, and I'm not the only one. Maybe they need to use some of that money to fix the servers once and for all so Cyrodiil isn't an unplayable lag fest during prime time, loading screens aren't a problem, and train GMs to do more than send canned email responses.

pizzaow

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Would it be possible to clarify/define how ZOS categorizes exploits and issues punishments?

It's clear many of the players appreciate the new precedent of harsher punishments. However, it's also clear that ZOS's reaction came as a surprise to many others, considering the previous precedent (e.g. the MoL skin/title which at the time was equivalently difficult/rare).

You've done a good job explaining that the severity of this exploit (skin/title of extremely difficult content) is punishable by a permanent ban. Reading into that statement, is "the punishment will fit the crime". Within this thread are several examples of other crimes, but what is missing is how ZOS ranks the crimes and thought process of issuing punishments. To some, a skin/title is extremely valuable whereas others value PvP rank/kills or gold most of all. It would be useful to know what ZOS deems most important.

I can certainly appreciate ZOS reserving the right to issue whatever punishment they see fit, but having a sort of "ZOS Laws" with punishment ranges (depending on severity/extenuating factors) would be useful for both deterring future exploits and consistent actions from ZOS's staff.

Glaiceana

It's not "just a cosmetic skin" though. It's currently the hardest thing to do in PvE right now, it's an achievement and title that takes hours of effort and flawless teamwork. People put time and dedication into this and not many players have got it. This is why it's being taken so seriously. Not to mention the selling of the exploit on top of that.
Please understand that it's not "just a skin/achievement", it's a lot more than that.

HatchetHaro

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

itzTJ wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI&t=431s

I really think you guys should reconsider perma bans for 1st time offenders. I mean put yourself in these peoples position, you are doing a trial and stumble on a way to just kill the bosses without dying.. YES this is wrong, YES this is stupid, but malicious? I dont think so..

These guys made a stupid decision, yes i get that. But for you to ban a 1st time offender for an IN GAME EXPLOIT, not even cheat engine or an outside program, is just terrible. I mean they stumbled onto it in game. Obviously they should have reported it and not done the trial but they didnt, yes it was wrong, but a perma ban is so harsh! I Know you guys want to make a statement because of the community mob that is upset, but you should take your stand against outside program hacks and cheats!! Not 1st time offenders using an exploit they stumbled onto a COUPLE days after the update..

Idk, i linked the video above from fengrush because this is a similar situation.. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you guys, in the past, have unbanned people for using outside cheats on PC.. But yet you say you will NOT look at an appeal for these guys on console? Why? Idk i just think if you guys try to put yourself in these peoples situation you will see that they were NOT malicious like people who have used cheats and been unbanned... Yes they were stupid, but not malicious. You guys are to quick to throw around perma bans because people are upset.. You could give them a 1 month ban and strip their stuff from the trial... You could make it so they could never get the skin or weapons again.. Hell, you could perma ban the character they were on, with all there trial gear, and give them a 1 month account ban.. These are things that you could do instead of PERMA BANNING 1st time offenders.. People spend thousands of hours and dollars on this game i just think the least you can do is give them 1 strike and their out..

People should watch that video, its a very similar situation.. Idk, i guess i just feel bad for these people because everyone makes stupid mistakes.. These guys didnt get an outside program to cheat at the game, they found a glitch and made a stupid call to not report it but a perma ban is to harsh, with no appeal, especially considering the past.. Also, this is scary to me because there have been exploits in the past, like keep jumping, that were very vague if it was an exploit.. The fact that they perma ban for exploits means that anyone could get caught up in an "exploit" one day and be perma banned..

We hear you, @itzTJ, and we didn't make this decision lightly. This particular exploit and the repercussions were particularly severe (unlocking an extremely difficult-to-get achievement and reward.) We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

Personally, I feel that the "severity" of this exploit was not as prominent, due to the fact that it is a PvE activity that can be tracked down and fixed easily by removing the related rewards and achievements from those accounts. I think that a week or month-long ban would have been sufficient for first-time offenders; that's so many hours of working their accounts lost due to a bad decision. Screw the ones selling the exploited runs though.

Permanent bans should really be saved for repeat offenders, botters, and cheaters in PvP when it comes to gameplay exploits.

While I still feel you guys should have been a bit more lenient, I am still extremely glad for your continued efforts to address ongoing exploiting issues and increased transparency on the matter.

Mureel

Taysa wrote: »

So what you're saying is I have to run my recording software 24/7 in the unstable lagfest that's currently PvP (that you guys refuse to fix for whatever reason and it keeps getting worse) just in case I happen to run into said exploiters, then upload said video to my video editing software, spend the time to cut the video, convert the video, upload the video, process the video and send you guys the link before you take my reports seriously?

I have to jump through a thousand hoops when you can easily just send a GM to shadow the person that's being reported, watch them for a few minutes, and draw your own conclusions?

Really? That's your solution?

No wonder cheaters never get banned. (Unless, of course, they're exploiting an ACHIEVEMENT.)

Oh stop. They said videos are HELPFUL you don't HAVE to do anything.

Stop muddying the water by throwing poo in it.

We always investigate based on the reports we receive

and

We also recognize that we have gone too easy on cheaters/exploiters in the past. (But not bots - bots get nuked on the first offense.) We're taking a stance to crack down harder, especially when the exploit is as deliberate and severe as this one was.

Have you ever considered that perhaps so many PVPers report other players over salt that GMs have so much trash to go through it makes getting to actual cheating harder? I sure have.