Look at how many people hate the appearance of vampirism!!!

wyterice24b14_ESO

Haha, I remember when if you went full level Vampire you were burnt every time you went into the sun & people chased after you with pitchforks to get you off their property!! ( This is of-course older ES games.. IE Oblivion) If I remember correctly

Beardimus

^ now that's cool

mirta000b16_ESO

This is actually GOOD RPG design. Want to be powerful? Then you have to live with the choice that makes you powerful. You don't just walk away with no consequence added to your choice. If anything, more choices should have strong consequences.

MLGProPlayer

Beardimus wrote: »

The problem is vampire should be a choice around RP and theme. Not pretty much compulsory for the stats. When people are vamp who don't want to be, problems start.

That's the root cause here. You should want to be a vamp for the playstyle, the skills, the RP, the look.

Either way Vamps should look like vamps in my book.

This is the crux of it. I'd venture to guess that 90% of vampires don't actually want to be vampires. It's just that the passives are so strong it doesn't make sense not to be one from a gameplay perspective.

MLGProPlayer

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

This is actually GOOD RPG design. Want to be powerful? Then you have to live with the choice that makes you powerful. You don't just walk away with no consequence added to your choice. If anything, more choices should have strong consequences.

Good game design separates gameplay and RP mechanics.

Gameplay benefits should have gameplay drawbacks only.

mirta000b16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Good game design separates gameplay and RP mechanics.

Gameplay benefits should have gameplay drawbacks only.

doesn't work like that in pen and paper RPGs, doesn't work like that in MUDs, doesn't work like that in early RPGs, like Fable.
You don't get to be something as evil as a non fed vampire and pretty. If anything this should be enforced on more things.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Good game design separates gameplay and RP mechanics.

Gameplay benefits should have gameplay drawbacks only.

doesn't work like that in pen and paper RPGs, doesn't work like that in MUDs, doesn't work like that in early RPGs, like Fable.
You don't get to be something as evil as a non fed vampire and pretty. If anything this should be enforced on more things.

[Snip]. Combat and cosmetics should never be connected in any MMO. And about 'drawbags', being a vampire makes you take more fire damage, so whatever wasnt killing you in vet content before, is gonna 1 shot you now, so the room for error is less. Thats fair price to be paid for the passives

[Edited to remove bait/flame]

Rohamad_Ali

This is wonderful news . I can finally take the bag off of my face and interact without making people vomiting .

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

[Snip]. Combat and cosmetics should never be connected in any MMO. And about 'drawbags', being a vampire makes you take more fire damage, so whatever wasnt killing you in vet content before, is gonna 1 shot you now, so the room for error is less. Thats fair price to be paid for the passives

So just because I disagree with you, I'm stupid?

If it was my game I would take this further. Being a member of a thieves guild would have a visual indication on your character. Being a member of the dark brotherhood would have a much worse visual indication on your character (think scars).

Either way, devs obviously decided that the looks is a fair drawback for a vampire. And I agree with them. Can't stand it? Well if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

[Edited for quote]

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

[Snip]. Combat and cosmetics should never be connected in any MMO. And about 'drawbags', being a vampire makes you take more fire damage, so whatever wasnt killing you in vet content before, is gonna 1 shot you now, so the room for error is less. Thats fair price to be paid for the passives

So just because I disagree with you, I'm stupid?

Because you are convined in MMOs people should choose between character progression and how their character looks. May I suggest a pure RPG game for you? Maybe the single player versions of elder scrolls, or witcher?

[Edited for quote]

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Because you are convined in MMOs people should choose between character progression and how their character looks

I'm convinced that an MMO is also an RPG. And yes, in the roots of RPG your decisions change your appearance.

And heck, show me one classic MMO where you would have no cosmetic progression from progressing through the game. Most do this with armour (remember wearing the most ridiculous thing in WoW simply because it had good stats?), but ESO also does this with visual effects. All of these visual effects are a choice and they're presented as a choice (you can't get turned into a vampire at random). You chose that choice, despite knowing up front what you're choosing. So either live with that choice, or cure yourself of vampirism and live without a passive here or there.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

[Snip]. Combat and cosmetics should never be connected in any MMO. And about 'drawbags', being a vampire makes you take more fire damage, so whatever wasnt killing you in vet content before, is gonna 1 shot you now, so the room for error is less. Thats fair price to be paid for the passives

Either way, devs obviously decided that the looks is a fair drawback for a vampire.

Do me a favour please and post this to every person complaining about Miat's addon, because he cant kill people from stealth and has to actually fight. Ty

[Edited for quote]

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Because you are convined in MMOs people should choose between character progression and how their character looks

I'm convinced that an MMO is also an RPG. And yes, in the roots of RPG your decisions change your appearance.

The RP aspect of it shouldnt be 'enforced'. If you want to RP be my guest, but if i wanna stay away from it i shouldnt make my character weaker. Thats why so many games implement the transmog/costume feature, but no RPG games have it. I wonder why

MLGProPlayer

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Good game design separates gameplay and RP mechanics.

Gameplay benefits should have gameplay drawbacks only.

doesn't work like that in pen and paper RPGs, doesn't work like that in MUDs, doesn't work like that in early RPGs, like Fable.
You don't get to be something as evil as a non fed vampire and pretty. If anything this should be enforced on more things.

None of those games have leader boards. MMOs introduce a competitive element. You need to min-max your stats in order to be as competitive as possible. In ESO, this means becoming a vampire. Taking two players of equal skill into a trial, the one with vampirism will always outperform the one without. This is why it's a mandatory gameplay decision. Players who are vampires don't actually want to be vampires, but the competitive pressures of the game force them into it.

There are no competitive pressures in pen-and-paper and single player RPGs.

Likewise, other people see you in MMOs. Stylizing your character is one of the draws of being an endgame player. It let's you show off your status through unique visual markers. This is why almost every MMO on the market has a transmogrification system, and why ESO is also getting one. It's why developers continue to design and sell costumes. Appearance is important in this genre.

This is why you need to separate gameplay and RP in MMOs. It's irrelevant in games that don't have a multiplayer element.

Krayzie

This is the last thing Zenimax should be focusing on.

Maybe if you roleplayers would stop littering the most used section of the forum with assign topics about cosmetic changes Zenimax would have some incentive to fix the major issues plaguing the game since launch.

Titansteele

Guilty of sensationalising this issue much?

300+ upvotes? Hardly enough to warrant the title chosen .... if you created a new guild, called it "Change Vamps NOW!" and got everyone that you are hoping people will listen too in said guild you wouldn't even need an overflow guild.

Where I understand and respect your opinion I know far more end game players who couldn't care less about the appearance than those that do. The vet skins are used to show off achievements and hide the ugly so spending time coding a cosmetic change seems like a waste of time and effort in my experience.

mirta000b16_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

None of those games have leader boards. MMOs introduce a competitive element. You need to min-max your stats in order to be as competitive as possible. In ESO, this means becoming a vampire. Taking two players of equal skill into a trial, the one with vampirism will always outperform the one without. This is why it's a mandatory gameplay decision. Players who are vampires don't actually want to be vampires, but the competitive pressures of the game force them into it.

There are no competitive pressures in pen-and-paper and single player RPGs.

Likewise, other people see you in MMOs. Stylizing your character is one of the draws of being an endgame player. It let's you show off your status through unique visual markers. This is why almost every MMO on the market has a transmogrification system, and why ESO is also getting one. It's why developers continue to design and sell costumes. Appearance is important in this genre.

This is why you need to separate gameplay and RP in MMOs. It's irrelevant in games that don't have a multiplayer element.

Want undead passives in WoW? Well sorry, but you can't look like a night elf. Before transmog you wanted gear that's strong at a specific gamemode? You wore it no matter how ugly it was.

JackWest92 wrote: »

The RP aspect of it shouldnt be 'enforced'. If you want to RP be my guest, but if i wanna stay away from it i shouldnt make my character weaker. Thats why so many games implement the transmog/costume feature, but no RPG games have it. I wonder why

then do not play an MMORPG. I'm sorry, but we should not be removing roleplay from a genre just because you don't like that actions have consequences.

AnviOfVai

I think its fine for Vampires to look...dead...But the thing I am not fine with is when Tattoos don't show up on the skin properly...why are they faded as well??

WaltherCarraway

Polymorph

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

None of those games have leader boards. MMOs introduce a competitive element. You need to min-max your stats in order to be as competitive as possible. In ESO, this means becoming a vampire. Taking two players of equal skill into a trial, the one with vampirism will always outperform the one without. This is why it's a mandatory gameplay decision. Players who are vampires don't actually want to be vampires, but the competitive pressures of the game force them into it.

There are no competitive pressures in pen-and-paper and single player RPGs.

Likewise, other people see you in MMOs. Stylizing your character is one of the draws of being an endgame player. It let's you show off your status through unique visual markers. This is why almost every MMO on the market has a transmogrification system, and why ESO is also getting one. It's why developers continue to design and sell costumes. Appearance is important in this genre.

This is why you need to separate gameplay and RP in MMOs. It's irrelevant in games that don't have a multiplayer element.

Want undead passives in WoW? Well sorry, but you can't look like a night elf. Before transmog you wanted gear that's strong at a specific gamemode? You wore it no matter how ugly it was.

JackWest92 wrote: »

The RP aspect of it shouldnt be 'enforced'. If you want to RP be my guest, but if i wanna stay away from it i shouldnt make my character weaker. Thats why so many games implement the transmog/costume feature, but no RPG games have it. I wonder why

then do not play an MMORPG. I'm sorry, but we should not be removing roleplay from a genre just because you don't like that actions have consequences.

I am not asking the rpg aspect to be removed. I am saying it shouldnt be mandatory. And the other thing you said, about wow. Those are *** racials. We have them in eso too, remember? Dont trying to compare a *** to a *** and tell me its the same thing. And yes, people wore the ugly gear before transmog. 10 *** years ago. Games evolved since then, but if you havent thats not our issue

P.S. i bet you are gonna play the WoW classic server and leave it under a month when you realise how bad vanilla was

MLGProPlayer

Titansteele wrote: »

Guilty of sensationalising this issue much?

300+ upvotes? Hardly enough to warrant the title chosen .... if you created a new guild, called it "Change Vamps NOW!" and got everyone that you are hoping people will listen too in said guild you wouldn't even need an overflow guild.

Where I understand and respect your opinion I know far more end game players who couldn't care less about the appearance than those that do. The vet skins are used to show off achievements and hide the ugly so spending time coding a cosmetic change seems like a waste of time and effort in my experience.

A sample size of 300 is statistically significant.

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

I am not asking the rpg aspect to be removed. I am saying it shouldnt be mandatory.

What kind of RPG would it be if RPG aspect was not mandatory?
If appearance bothers you that much polymorph, or cure vampirism. If you're going for a min-max then be prepared to make that sacrifice and don't act like an entitled kid.
Hey, at least you CAN min/max. BDO went back to a more tabletop system where every time you level up, your stat increase is rolled. It's possible to always roll the best, or the worst, leaving quite a gap.

Alternatively, instead of campaigning to un-RPG MMOs, why don't you play something that suits you better, like a MOBA. Pre-set character appearance unless you buy a skin and items gotten through no RNG during gametime. Should suit your min-max needs perfectly.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

A sample size of 300 is statistically significant.

out of 10 million accounts (think that's what ESO is celebrating right now? Or was it characters?). If you want to shorten that down just to reddit users, over 100K is subscribed to /r/elderScrollsOnline.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

I am not asking the rpg aspect to be removed. I am saying it shouldnt be mandatory.

why don't you play something that suits you better, like a MOBA. Pre-set character appearance unless you buy a skin and items gotten through no RNG during gametime. Should suit your min-max needs perfectly.

Bacause i play for the character progression and clearing hardest content in the game. No other games than MMORPG offer that. And for those who are ao addicted to sitting in an inn, writing like they are drunk after they character drank two beers, there is the single player RPG games.

Now, if you have so many issues with character progression and cosmetics being separate, why dont you stop with the attention seeking and go back to the single player RPGs?ohh, coz they wont give you the attention your mom didnt give you as a child. Sry my bad

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Now, if you have so many issues with character progression and cosmetics being separate, why dont you stop with the attention seeking and go back to the single player RPGs?ohh, coz they wont give you the attention your mom didnt give you as a child. Sry my bad

Because I advocate for no change from how we are now. Meaning I'm fully satisfied. You are not. You have this false presumption that the game should be the way that YOU and only YOU want and take no consideration for other players that are perfectly fine with status quo and like a bit of consequence in their lives.

You decided to engage in both cosmetic and stat wise alteration of your character. You knew what vampirism would do and you still took that option. Now you insist on sitting here complaining about it. Either invest more time into decision making, or reverse it.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Now, if you have so many issues with character progression and cosmetics being separate, why dont you stop with the attention seeking and go back to the single player RPGs?ohh, coz they wont give you the attention your mom didnt give you as a child. Sry my bad

Because I advocate for no change from how we are now. Meaning I'm fully satisfied. You are not. You have this false presumption that the game should be the way that YOU and only YOU want and take no consideration for other players that are perfectly fine with status quo and like a bit of consequence in their lives.

.

'Fully satisfied' kinda contradicts the 'if it was up to me i would enforce bigger consequences' for character progression skills such as vampirism or fighter's guild. And tie them even more to character look. Which is something you said earlier

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

'Fully satisfied' kinda contradicts the 'if it was up to me i would enforce bigger consequences' for character progression skills such as vampirism or fighter's guild. And tie them even more to character look. Which is something you said earlier

Enhancements could be made, but you don't see me creating forum threads, or sitting complaining about it. I'm okay with status quo.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

'Fully satisfied' kinda contradicts the 'if it was up to me i would enforce bigger consequences' for character progression skills such as vampirism or fighter's guild. And tie them even more to character look. Which is something you said earlier

Enhancements could be made, but you don't see me creating forum threads, or sitting complaining about it. I'm okay with status quo.

Thats right. I dont, but you do see you furiously arguing with anyone saying what we have right now is stupid and should be changed. Which isnt very different than 'making forum threads, or sitting complaining about it'

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Thats right. I dont, but you do see you furiously arguing with anyone saying what we have right now is stupid and should be changed. Which isnt very different than 'making forum threads, or sitting complaining about it'

Because I enjoy status quo and think that avoiding the consequences in order to get a pure stat increase would be a stupid system? Why not just open a thread stating "I just want to buy the passives from vampirism, but not vampirism please". Because that's what you're asking for. You want to avoid one of the drawbacks, instead of just weighing pros and cons of a decision and making a decision based on that.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Thats right. I dont, but you do see you furiously arguing with anyone saying what we have right now is stupid and should be changed. Which isnt very different than 'making forum threads, or sitting complaining about it'

Because I enjoy status quo and think that avoiding the consequences in order to get a pure stat increase would be a stupid system? Why not just open a thread stating "I just want to buy the passives from vampirism, but not vampirism please". Because that's what you're asking for. You want to avoid one of the drawbacks, instead of just weighing pros and cons of a decision and making a decision based on that.

Please enlighten me how taking up to 45% more fire damage is 'avoiding drawbacks'? Also, do explain why combat should be opposite proportional to cosmetics? You said skills and passives should alter your character look. Why?


Decision making is if to take vamp or werewolf. Decision is to play orc or redguard. Decision is if to use dual wield or 2 hander. Thats what you are talking about. What me and the rest are talking about, is smth completely different

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Please enlighten me how taking up to 45% more fire damage is 'avoiding drawbacks'? Also, do explain why combat should be opposite proportional to cosmetics? You said skills and passives should alter your character look. Why?

Because this is an RPG. In ESO lore unfed vampires look butt ugly. It's in the books. It's in the world around you. Why should the rules of the world not apply to your character specifically?

And if we're starting here and completely disregarding world or lore, what is stopping us from going full Korean MMO and start selling Nian Cat cars as mounts while we run around in rainbow coloured underwear? If Tera is anything to go by that would be very profitable.

Decision making is weather you want to make a vampire, a werewolf, or none, as that is an option too. When you make this decision you weigh all pros and cons. Including appearance. You seem to have not done so.