Do "Bloodmages" exist in Elder Scrolls?

KeiruNicrom

NB siphoning skills seem to be just that, siphoning the blood from ones self or others to heal and inflict damage. Plus there is a bit of lore via Morkuldin in Wrothgar where it is revealed that Morkuldin armaments are made using the blood of ones enemies. The quest npc refers to the possibility of spider ichor as a substitute which brings to the table a question of whether ichor can be considered blood, making alchemy a use of blood.

Mureel

KRBMMO wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

I know in many fantasies, they have a mage called a bloodmage. Take the Dragon Age series for example. I know it hasn't been touched much since Vampire Lords in Skyrim, but it could be said their "Health Drain" spell could be blood magic. However, could anyone learn blood magic (from a lore standpoint not just game)? I also ask, because I'm a RPer, and wanted to call my NB mage a bloodmage. Because the siphon spell looks very similar to the Vampire Lords health drain, as well bloodmage spells seen in Dragon Age.

It seems like NB is the closest thing to "Blood Mage" in ESO - but not literally "blood". More like the essence of the person (but not the soul, lol). Anyway, one skill line is "siphon" which begs the question: "What is siphoned?"

@KRBMMO
but not the soul, lol

I DIED xD ahahahah! My cat bolted I LOL so hard xD

notimetocare

KeiruNicrom wrote: »

NB siphoning skills seem to be just that, siphoning the blood from ones self or others to heal and inflict damage. Plus there is a bit of lore via Morkuldin in Wrothgar where it is revealed that Morkuldin armaments are made using the blood of ones enemies. The quest npc refers to the possibility of spider ichor as a substitute which brings to the table a question of whether ichor can be considered blood, making alchemy a use of blood.

Check restoration lore for NB.

Kierro

notimetocare wrote: »

One could very feasibly weaponize magic that utilized diseased blood. But why when established magic is infinitely more potent?

Well, Blood Mages

notimetocare wrote: »

KeiruNicrom wrote: »

NB siphoning skills seem to be just that, siphoning the blood from ones self or others to heal and inflict damage. Plus there is a bit of lore via Morkuldin in Wrothgar where it is revealed that Morkuldin armaments are made using the blood of ones enemies. The quest npc refers to the possibility of spider ichor as a substitute which brings to the table a question of whether ichor can be considered blood, making alchemy a use of blood.

Check restoration lore for NB.

But doesn't this contradict resto? Because t should heal, not hurt.

notimetocare

Kierro wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

One could very feasibly weaponize magic that utilized diseased blood. But why when established magic is infinitely more potent?

Well, Blood Mages

notimetocare wrote: »

KeiruNicrom wrote: »

NB siphoning skills seem to be just that, siphoning the blood from ones self or others to heal and inflict damage. Plus there is a bit of lore via Morkuldin in Wrothgar where it is revealed that Morkuldin armaments are made using the blood of ones enemies. The quest npc refers to the possibility of spider ichor as a substitute which brings to the table a question of whether ichor can be considered blood, making alchemy a use of blood.

Check restoration lore for NB.

But doesn't this contradict resto? Because t should heal, not hurt.

Drain spells, especially regarding health, is a restoration skill. Its mage classification moreso than philosophy. Self healing with another person's vitality.

On the first point, the traditional means of magic are well established and almost infinitely scaleable in power. Trying to utilize something with no major known power in magic would be like trying to power a car with whale oil. Could you make it work? Maybe, but would you really try?

BozzyTheDrummer

Kierro wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

If you mean 'are there mages who use blood to fuel their magic', the answer is yes. The Maormer use it in the Khenarthi's Roost questline. If that's not what you mean please specify because I've never played Dragon Age.

Yes, this is exactly what I mean. In Dragon Age lore, a bloodmage uses their own, or someone else's blood, to power their spells. In itself, blood magic isn't evil, it's just how it's used. Blood magic does have a drawback, though. While not evil, the thrill of power becomes like a drug. Sometimes a bloodmage can kill themselves or others from using too much blood spells. This can also lead a mage down a darker path, because the mage is so taken by the power of blood magic they become murderous. Forcefully ripping the blood out of their victims. So because of these set backs, blood magic is banned.

Btw I highly recommend trying Dragon Age. Most will say the 1st one "Dragon Age: Origins" was the best, but be warned don't be expecting top notch graphics. The story though, was amazing. And thank-you for your replies.

Well....I know what I'm doing when I get home. Busting out Dragon Age. All three of them (in my opinion) are amazing games.

Ximinetto

notimetocare wrote: »

Ximinetto wrote: »

Very helpful this thread, i made one today, trying to know if blooe magew are heros or bad guys. And here it is the answer. Btw i will use a Nord Magicka Nightblade for the same purposes.

A bloodmage, similar to those in other gamee, does not exists. Vampires and necromancers come close but ultimately blood is not the source of power. Vampire are cursed by a daedric Prince's affliction. Necromancers still use Magicka but make use of corpses.

Nightblade magic that drains health is simply restoration magic, in most cases, and a bit of destruction.

I will admit, it gets a bit fishy comparing magic to something we can understand. But blood is simply blood. Like with lycanthropy, and in our world, the disease is carried in blood. One could very feasibly weaponize magic that utilized diseased blood. But why when established magic is infinitely more potent?

Yeah i know that blood mages in TESO not exist,but people put names on their theory crafting classes such as druid on mag warden. I put blood mage name on my magblade cus i steal blood from my enemyes,and it is the similarity at most to the blood mages. Srry 4 my english.

bloodthirstyvampire

Theres blood magic so yes they do, infact the Vampires drain skill is blood magic in a way.

Marginis

As someone who got heavily, heavily into both DA and TES, with particular interest in the lore, I can say with certainty that most of the stuff already mentioned here is pretty much accurate, and likely the best thing you're going to get.

Blood magic in Dragon Age is treated like Daedric magic, or necromancy might be in The Elder Scrolls - it's the dark counterpart to "good" magic. While the game obviously treats mages, and the idea of mages very differently, we can still see some parallels, in how that type of magic isn't necessarily bad in and of itself, but is often conotated with the darker side of things (much of the reason being how they are connected to "evil" intrinsically) and has several relatively deep seated stereotypes about it.

Outside of that, how the two games handle magic can be very different, so it's hard to draw a direct analogue. Just about everyone in Tamriel is assumed to have some magical potential, for example, and it can be used for even mundane utility-type things, whereas in Ferelden magic comes from a special connection to the fade, an alternate dimension, and only a few are born as mages. That connection to the fade also gives mages in Ferelden a persecuted history, being considered in a way cursed by their power, and quarantined in mages towers, whereas Tamriel largely considers great magical power as one might combat prowess or great wealth. This obviously varies a bit within the different continents and countries/provinces in each game, or even with different factions like the reavers in Dragon Age,, bute general rule holds, especially considering that what I described is how mages were introduced in both games, so that general feel tends to hold throughout both game series.

If we're simply talking blood magic itself, and not where it fits thematically, there are several examples in TES where you can find blood powered magic. A lot of good ones are explained in this thread already, like I said. As far as the rest goes, you're doing everything else right. Do blood rituals, use spells that use health as a resource, and use attacks that siphon enemies' health, and you're pretty much on your way. Just know that in TES, being a "blood mage" just doesn't exactly mean the same thing, although you could assuredly roleplay your character in a way where that would make sense.

notimetocare

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Theres blood magic so yes they do infact the Vampires drain skill is blood magic in a way

Vampiric Drain skill is an extension of the feeding system. Same skill, different animation and damage

JPcrazysquirrel3

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Kierro

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Oblivion? You remember any details?

notimetocare

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Skyrim had very little, but it was vampires in the form of the vampirelord stain.

One that might seem like it is the werewolf ritual with the companions but it is not. The disease associated with the curse is blood transmitted.

Having more than 3k hours on Oblivion, I remember none outside of playermods.

EwanAmell

The Dragon Age interpretation of the term is not much common as it is for other things. In TES lore I gather that blood magic is intended more as magic directly related to blood, in which it's used as catalyst or it's altered by it: doors that can be opened only with a certain kind of blood (i.e. SkyHaven Temple), things that can be used only by someone of a certain lineage (the amulet of kings perhaps?), the aforementioned Equilibrium spell (that appears also in Skyrim as a Novice Alteration spell) and sorc's Dark Exchange, or alchemy that affects the blood or its properties (i.e. cures for vamprism or other blood-located diseases, surrogates of vampire feeding, spoilers in a summerset's side quest, etc.).
I think the term it's used more like in Once Upon a Time (where blood magic was used for binding spells or enchanted locks that only one person or their relatives could break) than in Dragon Age. As for the vampiric blood magic, vampirism is a blood disease, so all vampiric powers must be somehow relate to it as its very source I think, but that's another branch of magic entirely, since vampires are peculiar beings.

Asardes

Stamina Sorcerers in PvP. They are the best blood mages ever. 2 Master's Axes/1 Master Battle Axe + 5 Blood Drinker + 5 Sload's Semblance. All it will say in death recap would be rending slashes bleed, twin blade and blunt bleed, heavy weapon bleed, sload's semblance, reverse slice

bloodthirstyvampire

notimetocare wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Theres blood magic so yes they do infact the Vampires drain skill is blood magic in a way

Vampiric Drain skill is an extension of the feeding system. Same skill, different animation and damage

But your still using blood as a means of attack, ergo blood magic.

notimetocare

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Theres blood magic so yes they do infact the Vampires drain skill is blood magic in a way

Vampiric Drain skill is an extension of the feeding system. Same skill, different animation and damage

But your still using blood as a means of attack, ergo blood magic.

No, you aren't. That would be akin to saying that cutting someone so they bleed out is blood magic

JPcrazysquirrel3

Kierro wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Oblivion? You remember any details?

Feck. I knew someone would probably ask that, but I posted anyways.

I'm rigorously trying to look this up,... but off the top of my head, I want to say it was mentioned in lore, but not directly in the game. In Skyrim, it was lorebooks that talked about it. In ESO, there were some NPCs that mention it, but lorebooks also.

But as someone who has played both TES and Dragon Age series, I have to agree with @EwanAmell that DA bloodmages are on a whole other level. Whereas in TES, it's really only been hinted at, but not really shown.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Kierro wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Oblivion? You remember any details?

OK, interesting fact, Ayleid flesh sculptors apparently practice blood magic to do their, well, flesh sculpting. Therefore, in Skyrim, with the Dawnguard DLC, you actually meet a bloodmage (the Face Sculptor in Riften's Ragged Flagon)

Then, there's a lot of conjecture, like the Blood Seal in Skyhaven Temple, the Bloodskal blade and that the lore mentions some kind of secret and ancient ritual tradition that made it, the fact that Vampire Lord ablilities in Skyrim are straight up called "Blood Magic", etc.

In ESO, there is a quest that relates to a whole clan of orcs that had ancestors that were practitioners of blood magic (in the Orsinium DLC). TES Legends seems to lump it together with necromancy, but all of the other lore from other games seem to imply it is an entirely separate skill set.

Still haven't seen anything linking it officially to Oblivion though, so my apologies, if that part of my original statement is not correct.

notimetocare

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Oblivion? You remember any details?

OK, interesting fact, Ayleid flesh sculptors apparently practice blood magic to do their, well, flesh sculpting. Therefore, in Skyrim, with the Dawnguard DLC, you actually meet a bloodmage (the Face Sculptor in Riften's Ragged Flagon)

Then, there's a lot of conjecture, like the Blood Seal in Skyhaven Temple, the Bloodskal blade and that the lore mentions some kind of secret and ancient ritual tradition that made it, the fact that Vampire Lord ablilities in Skyrim are straight up called "Blood Magic", etc.

In ESO, there is a quest that relates to a whole clan of orcs that had ancestors that were practitioners of blood magic (in the Orsinium DLC). TES Legends seems to lump it together with necromancy, but all of the other lore from other games seem to imply it is an entirely separate skill set.

Still haven't seen anything linking it officially to Oblivion though, so my apologies, if that part of my original statement is not correct.

Vampires have always been a tricky situation.

Flesh sculpting is very similar to Necromancy and would be lumped in.

The bloodseal is more of bloodline. Similar to the Amulet of Kings. Hereditary lineage. Genetics from the gift of Alessia

Kierro

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Yes. ESO, Skyrim, and I believe even Oblivion has references to Blood magic and Bloodmages.

Oblivion? You remember any details?

OK, interesting fact, Ayleid flesh sculptors apparently practice blood magic to do their, well, flesh sculpting. Therefore, in Skyrim, with the Dawnguard DLC, you actually meet a bloodmage (the Face Sculptor in Riften's Ragged Flagon)

Then, there's a lot of conjecture, like the Blood Seal in Skyhaven Temple, the Bloodskal blade and that the lore mentions some kind of secret and ancient ritual tradition that made it, the fact that Vampire Lord ablilities in Skyrim are straight up called "Blood Magic", etc.

In ESO, there is a quest that relates to a whole clan of orcs that had ancestors that were practitioners of blood magic (in the Orsinium DLC). TES Legends seems to lump it together with necromancy, but all of the other lore from other games seem to imply it is an entirely separate skill set.

Still haven't seen anything linking it officially to Oblivion though, so my apologies, if that part of my original statement is not correct.

Very cool, thanks! So, blood magic is in lore but there's no "Blood Mage", fair enough. In truth, a blood mage should be able to use other spells not just blood related. So that works.

ZOS_JesC

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bloodthirstyvampire

notimetocare wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Theres blood magic so yes they do infact the Vampires drain skill is blood magic in a way

Vampiric Drain skill is an extension of the feeding system. Same skill, different animation and damage

But your still using blood as a means of attack, ergo blood magic.

No, you aren't. That would be akin to saying that cutting someone so they bleed out is blood magic

You use a vampires drain skill with mag not stam, thats the same in every game

notimetocare

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

bloodthirstyvampire wrote: »

Theres blood magic so yes they do infact the Vampires drain skill is blood magic in a way

Vampiric Drain skill is an extension of the feeding system. Same skill, different animation and damage

But your still using blood as a means of attack, ergo blood magic.

No, you aren't. That would be akin to saying that cutting someone so they bleed out is blood magic

You use a vampires drain skill with mag not stam, thats the same in every game

Drain is new to Skyrim but it is covered by restoration magic in classification ( the understanding of schools and Nature of magic).

ESOs is different, but it is also just a combat extension of the feeding. Feeding in other tes titles as the classic, physical action. MMO mechanics have to be taken with a grain of sand, so to speak. Most skills in ESO don't work like traditional TES games.

One clear example is that ultimate is not something that exists in TES. The mechanics aren't lore

JPcrazysquirrel3

Had to come back to this just to post more evidence.

Orsinium had a whole quest referencing blood magic. Now, Summerset has this:


This quest references blood magic as well, but I won't give any spoilers.

Skyrim is canon and ESO is canon. Bethesda has confirmed in the past that ESO is canon. notimetocare can't ignore that fact.

Blood magic, in one way or another, does exist in the Elder Scrolls universe. It just hasn't fully been explored in the games.

Kierro

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

ESO is canon. Bethesda has confirmed in the past that ESO is canon.

It is? I kept hearing it's still up to debate. If it is, that's cool, makes the RPer in me happy.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Kierro wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

ESO is canon. Bethesda has confirmed in the past that ESO is canon.

It is? I kept hearing it's still up to debate. If it is, that's cool, makes the RPer in me happy.

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

Add to that the fact that Bethesda owns ZOS.

JPcrazysquirrel3

Also, from another thread:

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

And for anyone tha finds inconsistencies, they have an in story excuse that can be used. Dragon Breaks. Some points in time are so tumultuous that the regular flow of time itself becomes less uniform. An easy example is when the ancient Nords sent Alduin forward in time. Another is the usage of Numidium by Tiber Septim at the beginning of the Third Era. There's another confirmed break in the First Era, where for a few hundred years there is absolutely no recorded history. If ESO takes place in a Dragon Break, it would explain events such as the Planemeld and Three Banners War not being mentioned in other lore.

JPcrazysquirrel3

@Kierro Also, this. Watch from 1:04:00 to 1:12:52

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

And for anyone tha finds inconsistencies, they have an in story excuse that can be used. Dragon Breaks. Some points in time are so tumultuous that the regular flow of time itself becomes less uniform. An easy example is when the ancient Nords sent Alduin forward in time. Another is the usage of Numidium by Tiber Septim at the beginning of the Third Era. There's another confirmed break in the First Era, where for a few hundred years there is absolutely no recorded history. If ESO takes place in a Dragon Break, it would explain events such as the Planemeld and Three Banners War not being mentioned in other lore.

Darlgon wrote: »

Here, watch this vid. An interview with Lawrence Schick, lead loremaster of ESO. It will answer all your questions.

https://youtu.be/7D0_q6cfhsE

Go to 1:04:00 and watch the whole interview.

Kierro

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

Kierro wrote: »

JPcrazysquirrel3 wrote: »

ESO is canon. Bethesda has confirmed in the past that ESO is canon.

It is? I kept hearing it's still up to debate. If it is, that's cool, makes the RPer in me happy.

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

Add to that the fact that Bethesda owns ZOS.

I thought Zen owns Beth...