Kicked from dungeons for using sword and board as dps.

DPShiro

What is this “mega DPS” you said?

9k AoE?

Bisbatron

Don't waste your breath asking, there will never be a DPS parse, as OP "Doesnt' believe in them."

WrathOfInnos

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Saphorius wrote: »

You still don't understand that the dummy parse is just there to show that you CAN do the dps. Its obvious that you wont do the same dps in all situations, but if you are unable to do your "excellent OP dps" on a dummy you will most certanly not be able to pull decent dps in harder fights.

Target dummy parses are so skewed anyway. On a stamina character you can go 2-fanged + NMG +Kragh + Major fracture +lover and get insane numbers. But would you use it in a raid/dungeon??? Never (unless you´re the only stamina DD in the group). With a setup like that I can do 40k+dps on my stamDK selfbuffed. But if I equip my REAL trialgear instead (Hundings + Sunder +Velidreth + Warrior) I´ll get around 32-33k dps. Always bring the setup you´re doing to use in a trial to a DPS test. Like, if you´re doing to use vigor in a trial, it should be on your bar during the dummy dps test as well.

Always ask for a DPS-parse for an actual fight/boss and not a target dummy. They´ll give a better picture of your actual DPS.

I actually disagree with that to some degree. There is nothing wrong with using dummy parses to discuss DPS as long as the variables are known. The reason stamina users wear TFS and that sort of thing is that we are trying to compensate for buffs that a good raid should give us. A 40k single target parse with penetration gear will be closer to 50 in a pure raid. If you want to see how things perform in a trial, you should try to mimic a trial wherever possible when testing. That starts with trying to get close to the penetration cap.

Storymaster wrote: »

Saphorius wrote: »

Also its called selfbuffed for a reason...

Selfbuffing is something you're supposed to do in private, certainly not in a party, and certainly not in a public dungeon

If you are in a groupfinder dungeon and you arent prepared to self buff to some degree, you are part of the problem. The only time you should be 100% glass cannon DPS that relys on your group for everything is if you are in a 12 man raid and you know everyone's name and what they are doing.

I've got to agree with @Oreyn_Bearclaw on this one. There is nothing wrong with modifying your setup for solo content and dummy parsing. You will need to supply your own buffs, and there is not reason to privide group support at a personal DPS loss in these scenarios.

The key is to be able to switch easily to an optimized group setup for dungeons and trials. Don't use two-famg if there is another stamina DPS around, use sunder and night mothers. Don't use Lover when the tank is debuffing armor, use warrior or apprentice. So long as you have an understanding of game mechanics, you will be able to maximize numbers on dummies, and still see massive improvement when in a group.

Inhuman003

I'm left speechless and shocked about this threat you don't need sorting boards to level up your Undaunted Skills, all you need to do is just grind dungeons to level up I know you know that.

Mureel

Stinkyremy wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don't know how much DPS you are doing, but if you get it up to about 25k, then nobody will complain in dungeons, regardless of what weapon you are using. While sword and shield is not optimal for DPS, it does allow you to use two 5-piece sets with a monster helm set, which should almost make up for the loss of staff skills on that bar.

These people don't even know how much dps i am doing, and I am destroying mobs solo too, no sign of bing incompitent. They just see sword and shield, which means tank and this guy doesn't know what he is doing.

Actualllly- if I am the other DPS and my CM shows group dps at 40k and my % of that, then I may not know exactlyhow much you are doing, given residual dmg by tank/healer but I know darn well when you’re not doing enough.

Eyesinthedrk

You most certainly have the right to play as you like. And so does everyone else.


The way most people want to play is without a stam class in light armor holding tank weapons on their team.
See? It goes both ways.

Now I’m pretty tollarent if I’m in a pug group. I’m never going to initiate a kick vote. But if someone else does, I’m probably voting yes. Not based on you persay, but based on my experience with the other 99 SnB dps I’ve pugged with.

Also weapon damage is only part of the damage equation. Max stam is also part of the equation. You’re still hitting like a wet noodle if you only have 14k max stam.

NordSwordnBoard

DPS Awareness Month at ESO Forums!

Seriously, this is a good post:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380325/every-dd-should-know-their-dps-with-the-skeleton/p1

Sigtric

I've tried the magDK 1h/shield method before in PVE

It works very well in situations where DPS-tanking was needed. Like duo or 3 person dungeons. It is missing DPS though.

The DPS-tanking works even better with double destro though. The benefits of running 2x destro outperform losing the 5/5/2 and blocking with a shield. I can still dps-tank with this set up and put out much better DPS and tank just as well if I have to with regular block and harness magicka.

If you want to purposefully gimp yourself for the sake of what you find as a more fun playstyle, that's totally fine, but the onus is on you to find other people who are OK with that if you are going to take it into a group environment.

mDK has it rough enough in the PVE group DPS department and to do things that cause you not to bring your full DPS potential to the group environment is inconsiderate if you're pugging. If you're playing with friends and you all work well and win, that's different.

Yamenstein

Stinkyremy wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

You aren't going to get the best DPS using an orc magicka build with sword and shield. Even if it was a stamina orc build with s&s, you still won't get the best DPS. For one thing, melee weapons like swords scale off of stamina, so being a magicka build will hurt your damage output with weapons.
I made the exact same noob mistake that you did ... I made a magicka DK character with sword and shield when I was new to the game, except mine was a Dark Elf. I later switched her to using a flame staff, and was very happy I changed it.

I think you misunderstand my build and the pelinals aptitude set.

So I have and DK, 5 light armour, 1 heavy, 1 medium, 5 piece sun set (flame damage) flame enchanted flame staff, valkyn skoria and pelinals aptitude, which makes my weapon damage the exact same level as my spell damage, which atm, is 3400+ buffed. I have still not leveled all that i need to level or have the right shoulder piece I want or gold sun rings, should be 3500 min after all that.
So without using any sword and board skills, my light attacks with the sword , should in theory be doing the same damage as a desto staff light attack, disregarding any enchantments.

Now on my staff bar, back bar I am using 1 destruction staff skill, only one, so even if I had 2 destruction staffs, i am still only using 1 staff for actual destruction staff work.
Then DK's most powerful and all single target magika attacks are all meant to be at melee range, where blocking is very inportant, which the sword and board is perfect for.
I can be n the mob holding block and use all my skills with the sword and shield taking very little damage.

So the benefits I have in my build with a sword and board over a 2nd desto staff is that i have an extra slot for another magika enchant, the ability to have a second 5 set bonus, a way to use my stamina as efficient damage (and ult regen wth heroic strike) even as a mag char and i am able to block more damage, which is damn handy considering I have to be in the thick of the mob to use 70% of my damage abilities. Plus I like using it and it looks cool af.

The real issue here is people stereotyping a weapon to a role and having no concept of making up their own build out, and that a dps with an unorthodox set up is instantly "wrong" and in my case, these people have automatically assumed sword and shield=tank, where in fact, in my case a sword and shield is a viable dps tool.

Firstly. I agree. Don't play the meta and play how you want to. I have no problem with that and I like to make random builds because of this. I have some guidelines I follow though. This is just because even though I am having fun I want to consider other people I play with and the time I make them waste if I'm just acting like a *** and not performing well enough.

I don't know what DPS you were pulling off - maybe I missed it in your original post - but if you are going to DPS with a Sword/Board then I hope you are able to still pull of good DPS on the BOSSES - not just mobs in dungeon runs.

Some guide lines I try to follow are:
1)If I'm DPS'ing - make sure my DPS is high - for something like vet dungeons I want to stay around 18-20k. Anymore than that then that's awesome! Any less then it can still work but I realise that I have to make myself more useful - whether its the ability to give buffs to the other team members or trying to rez others as much as I can.
2) If I'm tanking - hold agro and buff allies while debuffing enemies/rooting them, and so on - simple.
3) If I'm healing - make sure my team is topped up on health, any other buffs I can provide - especially because SPC is used in most of my healing builds as a standard, and helping out with resource management

Secondly, most of us understand how Pelinals work. At the end of the day though your DPS is never going to be more than the DPS of someone who is focusing on either magic or stamina based attacks. You might have more spell power in the other power type - but you won't have as much stamina/magicka pools as well. Which still affect the damage done, as well as your ability to last when it comes to those resources.

Honestly, you can make better builds with a Sword and Board without that set and you could do more damage with it. Because I'm sorry but "my stamina as efficient damage" isn't all that true - it is passable. Your light attacks with your sword isn't going to give you so much more DPS that it outperforms the light attacks of a destro staff when you focus on primarily magicka.

Again tell me i'm wrong, show me the DPS. if you don't use addons or you're on console show me a dummy parse so I can get an understanding compared to other dummy parses.

You'll be better off going all magicka even with the use of a sword and board weapon type. More efficiently than that would be the use of two destro staffs.

Also you think that having a sword and board is going to protect you more than using two destro staffs? Sure. If you plan on blocking most of the time. I think all the passives when it comes to that skill line really gets benefits when it comes to its defence when you are blocking. If you are blocking that much - then your tank isn't doing his job and holding boss agro. If you are dying to mobs then your healer isn't doing a good job on heals when facing mobs. Because of that you aren't doing good DPS because you are forced to block it seems and your DPS suffers.

Your set up doesn't help you do good DPS.

The only thing I agree with, for the most part is "The real issue here is people stereotyping a weapon to a role and having no concept of making up their own build out, and that a dps with an unorthodox set up is instantly "wrong" and in my case, these people have automatically assumed sword and shield=tank, where in fact, in my case a sword and shield is a viable dps tool."

It's not a viable DPS tool. Unless you have a good build that is pulling off great DPS numbers I would never accept someone with a sword and board into a vet dungeon, especially not the DLC ones! I give everyone a chance. If I feel like I'm doing all the work why would I want someone else there that just wants to waste my time? I can do the same dumb dungeon over and over again, the same farming runs again and again. But I don't want my time wasted because someone isn't given it their all. Have the right amount of DPS and help out. Make your crazy builds and go for it and realise that if you don't do that you're wasting someone elses time.

EDIT: I've tried the Pelinal set - multiple times. It doesn't work well - ZOS needs to change several things before this becomes something useful.

TL;DR: Pelinal is crap. Focus on Magicka OR Stamina. Don't waste other peoples time. If you want to waste their time then join a guild who knows what you will run so you don't get kicked.

Fallen_Ray

I tank on a stam templar using sword & shield main and 2 handed on second, it's a build I made myself. Because to my definition a templar is a paladin like knight instead of a healer, priest is more of a healer to me. But I've never been kicked for tanking with a 2handed weapon on a vet dungeon.

You can play however you want as long as you comply with your role's responsibility.

Magdalina

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

Stinkyremy

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

Magdalina

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

That doesn't even make sense...you...omg whatever lol. I give up There doesn't seem any hope left for this one.

FrancisCrawford

I don't play magicka DK DPS, but I gather that it's mainly about fire AoEs, plus either Lava Whip or Force Pulse/Crushing Shock for spammable. OK, then:

• A race with a direct bonus to that damage would be nice (Altmer or Dunmer).
• A race that helps with sustain would be nice (Altmer, Breton, even Argonian).
• A fire staff would be nice, so as to do the fire damage the rest of the build is buffing, and to buff single-target skills and buffs.
• A lightning staff would ALSO be nice, so that the AoE DoTs can tick with more damage.
• Champion points spent buffing magicka damage would be nice.

Any time spent on a S&B bar is extremely likely to cost DPS.

That said -- I often enjoy groups with weak players. It makes the run more challenging and interesting.

Stinkyremy

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

That doesn't even make sense...you...omg whatever lol. I give up There doesn't seem any hope left for this one.

"what is pelinals aptitude"
Best to read the thread before [snip]posting

[Edited to remove profanity]

Merlin13KAGL

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

That doesn't even make sense...you...omg whatever lol. I give up There doesn't seem any hope left for this one.

"what is pelinals aptitude"
Best to read the thread before [snip]posting

Excellent advice. Please take it before posting another thread.

You've had dozens of people indicate why you're effectively losing damage. You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof. If you haven't grasped why any of this is an issue by now, you're not going to.

You're convinced your build is awesome, therefore it is. Cease the thread and continue to do your own thing, as that's clearly your intent. You've no interest in anyone else's opinion or advice.

[Edited for quote]

heng14rwb17_ESO

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Saphorius wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I don't know how much DPS you are doing, but if you get it up to about 25k, then nobody will complain in dungeons, regardless of what weapon you are using. While sword and shield is not optimal for DPS, it does allow you to use two 5-piece sets with a monster helm set, which should almost make up for the loss of staff skills on that bar.

These people don't even know how much dps i am doing, and I am destroying mobs solo too, no sign of bing incompitent. They just see sword and shield, which means tank and this guy doesn't know what he is doing.

How much dps are you doing then?

I don't know, i don't check these things, and I only just built the char today. I'm still leveling skills and skill likes and aren't even 100% on my rotation.
I know that I am doing sufficient by the speed in which a mob dies. Also I would like to add, I haven't been kicked in every dungeon I have done, i have done loads, just these 2 that people kicked me without me being bad

So you mean measure dps via bloodspawn or target dummies?
None of these things are accurate measures of actual dps tbh. They dont take into account, blocking, rolling, healing, using synergies, movement, positioning ect, all active things a dps actually does in combat.
my stam DK can do something like 58k damage in less than one second with 3 attacks very quick, no dots or aoes previously added, does that mean I can do 58k every second of a battle...no

This build I have now, inhale is a major part of my survivability in the middle of mobs, and that is a relatively weak attack, but it hits every target and the more targets the more sustain I have by geting magika back form it.
Now that move is completely useless on a boss, or a target dummy, as would CC moves.
So again, those methods of measuring are inaccurate, pointless.
i suppose it would be an accurate way to measure target attacks against a static target but I have not seen many of them in the game.

I bet it is less than 10k dps

idk

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

@Stinkyremy

I don't think your correct. Iirc light attacks scale off of their native damage stats so if it's a magicks build it will work better off spell damage and for certain it will crit better off the spell crit. Spell damage would be higher in that magicks build.

disintegr8

I have run a mag healer with a sword and board on one bar, for additional resources. I have stam tanks with a bow on the back bar, purely for ranged attacks when needed. I have stamina DD's running with 2 handed weapons on one bar.

All of them are capable of 2 manning normal dungeons with a friend and can handle normal PUGs, but I would not expect any of these to be taken seriously in PUG trials or vet dungeons, so I do not try to do so.

My suggestion for anyone who wants to run harder group content and 'play as you like', is to find your own groups, friends, guilds, or like minded people who are happy to run with you.

Stinkyremy

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

That doesn't even make sense...you...omg whatever lol. I give up There doesn't seem any hope left for this one.

"what is pelinals aptitude"
Best to read the thread before [snip]posting

Excellent advice. Please take it before posting another thread.

You've had dozens of people indicate why you're effectively losing damage. You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof. If you haven't grasped why any of this is an issue by now, you're not going to.

You're convinced your build is awesome, therefore it is. Cease the thread and continue to do your own thing, as that's clearly your intent. You've no interest in anyone else's opinion or advice.

" You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof"
Ok simple logic
for example...
spell damage is 3k, with pelinals aptitude, weapon damage is also 3k
there is your proof

[Edited for quote]

Cenom

Just saying... I'd kick you 10 out of 10 times.

Magdalina

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

That doesn't even make sense...you...omg whatever lol. I give up There doesn't seem any hope left for this one.

"what is pelinals aptitude"
Best to read the thread before [snip]posting

Excellent advice. Please take it before posting another thread.

You've had dozens of people indicate why you're effectively losing damage. You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof. If you haven't grasped why any of this is an issue by now, you're not going to.

You're convinced your build is awesome, therefore it is. Cease the thread and continue to do your own thing, as that's clearly your intent. You've no interest in anyone else's opinion or advice.

" You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof"
Ok simple logic
for example...
spell damage is 3k, with pelinals aptitude, weapon damage is also 3k
there is your proof

Ergo your spell damage is okay for a magicka build(but what is your magicka, spell crit and spell pen at? One stat is meaningless) and your weapon damage blows for a stamina build. Wow that so proves us wrong!

[Edited for quote]

Datthaw

I love how you keep insisting you do "good damage" but have 0 damn clue what you're actually doing. Until you post something with your dps then just shut up. *** or get off the pot with your s&b seducer dps

AtraisMachina2

Stinkyremy wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

@Stinkyremy A target skeleton test should be a decent indicator. Not perfect, as you pointed out, but a useful way to compare different builds. Just kill a 3 million health one solo in one go and it will give a baseline number.

I also just saw the part where you said pelinals. I have to say I have been disappointed with this set in every build I have tried to make with it. And I really wanted to make it work. The problem is that you don't have enough sources of exclusively weapon damage that will make the increase to spell damage worthwhile. Breaking this down, your sword gives 1335 to both weapon AND spell damage, you can use a berserker glyph for another 348 weapon AND spell damage, healers using spell power cure give you both weapon AND spell damage. The main way to get one or the other is jewelry enchant, but you could just go all 3 jewelry pieces with spell damage for 174 X 3, then you can use molten armaments for a 20% multiplier to spell damage (or the other morph if you want more weapon damage too).

I think you would benefit from replacing pelinals with a spell damage or spell crit set like Burning Spellweave, Julianos, Mothers Sorrow, or even the new Mechanical Acuity. You would gain a lot more out of the set, and only lose a little damage on light and heavy attacks and stamina skills.

Again, I'm not trying to make some sort of badass dps or meta trial dps crusher. I just made a char with the race, class, sets and weapons I want to play with.
I am well aware how under perfmoing pelenals is, i's great on paper but bad in theory.
And again, I am not even using stamina based attack, I wasn't even using heroic strike earlier today but was using burning talons.
I use pelenals so that i can use a sword and shield on a mag dk without the light attacks doing zero damage.
I'm a mag dk, i'm not a hybrid char, i'm 64 magika 30k no food and no mage guild passives/ skills slotted and currently i'm only lvl 7 in undaunted.

The problem is that ignorant people wrote me off as some sort crap dps because of the myth that sword and shield cant be used in a dps build.

Stinkyremy wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

why cant iuse what I like

Because you're playing group content, not solo content. In group content, you have to think about the experience you're creating for the other players as well. If you don't contribute to the group in a way they justifiably expect (i.e., if you do <15K DPS in a vet dungeon, or <20K in vet DLC dungeons), they're justified in seeking a new group member who can pull their own weight.

my light attacks with the sword , should in theory be doing the same damage as a desto staff light attack

It doesn't work that way. Destro staff light attacks are buffed by many things that don't effect your sword light attacks, even when wearing Pelinal's, including
- Racial damage passives (doesn't apply to you)
- Ele Expert CP
- Spell penetration
- Destro staff penetration passive
- max magicka (not just spell damage)

Not to mention that you lose the Elemental Force and Ancient Knowledge passives when you switch to your shield bar (though losing Ele Force is not a big deal if you're running BSW). Slightly faster ult gen and a set bonus won't come close to compensating for those losses. The DPS loss from not light attack weaving with a destro staff is so large that they more than cancel out the benefits you list from running sword and board.

I have to be in the thick of the mob to use 70% of my damage abilities

This might be true, but you hardly need to be wearing sword-and-board to deal with this adequately. You'll have solid resistances from Volatile Armor and be getting plenty of healing from Embers, Inhale, and the group healer, not to mention have access to Dampen Magic. You're trading a lot of DPS to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Sorry, I would probably kick you from a vet dungeon too, unless I just felt like carrying someone.

Post a 6m dummy parse doing 20K DPS with your setup and I'll happily recant!

Edit: if you're talking about shredding mobs in the overworld or your experiences in normal dungeons, then nevermind. That content is so easy that you can complete it with virtually any build.

6mil dummy
Who the f has time for that.
Sorry but standing hitting a static target for a few minutes to satisfy inner autismo or to prove you are good enough to run vcoa is not my idea of fun.
heck i can run the dungeon solo even with this build as it is now, though last boss does hit like a truck i would need DKs deflect
I ran through vicp with this build today.

i appreciate your insight into the actual loss of dps for not running double desto, but it's not like I am running VHR with this char, i was only doing random dungeons to level undaunted so i can finish the build.
if I was unable to kill enemies and letting the team down I understand but this crap is just simple prejudice against sword and shield chars who aren't tank, and there is a lot of them, mainly duelers and pvp players but even they have to run dungeons sometimes.

This thread is old but yea. Idrc what your doing if you have this kinda attitude. I run into people like this constantly and theyre always the same. Stuck in midgame because they dont like listening. I honestly believe that you were/are capable of beating whatever dungeon that was on what ever toon you said your running. But thats not why the prejudice exists. Doing what your not supposed to do in this game puts one of 2 labels on you. Your either a noob which is fine. Or your someone who refuses to adapt and listen in which case there is a high likelihood (maybe not in ur case) that you will be waisting someones time in the party due to your narcissism. YOU wanna play how YOU wanna play but dungeons take 4 people and if your not willing to cooperate. Then yea idrc

Merlin13KAGL

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

commdt wrote: »

Man what we are trying to tell you is your setup is just not for a team. In team as a DD your role is solely to deal damage, not to tank mobs or boost your survivability. The damage you simply cant deal with a shield. The fact that everyone except you wiped on a simple trash confirms the problem, as with a good DPS trash simply doesnt live that long to kill anybody.
Your build may be good though, at least it sounds interesting, but for solo play. Theres a place called veteran Maelstrom arena which fits perfectly for your build and your role. Go there, show a good result or if it is too easy, run DLC vet dungeons solo, share you results with us and youll get our awesomes, mine at least.
Just please stop ruining the game for team players

"everyone except you wiped on a simple trash"
I never said that.
"The damage you simply cant deal with a shield"
so if on my main bar I have burning embers, choking talons, volitile armour, engulfing flames, flame lash and inhale, what difference is there gonna be in damage than if I was holding a sword and shield or a destruction staff? or even bare handed.
Very little if any.
While I am not 100% sure if the desto passives still pertain to the class abilities, and if they do that means a DK should never hold any desto staff other than flame, if the desto passive do relate to the class abilities the damage is pretty minimal, especially in vet dungeons.
While I could understand the elitism and not wanting that setup in vet trials, I have ran normal trials with the alt, no one complained about my damage or even mentioned about me holding a sword and board.

Oh my god. Normally I try to avoid being condescending but you're cp 600+, you're here arguing with people for 5 pages, claiming you know what you're doing, and you're saying THIS?

Your weapon is one of the biggest sources of your damage. I suggest you try dpsing barehand to see lol. The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage. I'm not in the game right now but you're welcome to compare the values that s&b gives you in comparison to at least a staff. "At least" because if you're purely after the highest damage weapon that'd be DW(there's a reason magicka builds used to/sometimes still run that and it's not purely the set bonus).

" The "weapon damage" value of your weapon gets flat added to both your spell and weapon damage"
Yea so if I have a desto staff and 3k spell damage I am doing the same amount of damage with my S&B than I would be doing with my desto staff, thanks for clearing the obvious up.

That doesn't even make sense...you...omg whatever lol. I give up There doesn't seem any hope left for this one.

"what is pelinals aptitude"
Best to read the thread before [snip]posting

Excellent advice. Please take it before posting another thread.

You've had dozens of people indicate why you're effectively losing damage. You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof. If you haven't grasped why any of this is an issue by now, you're not going to.

You're convinced your build is awesome, therefore it is. Cease the thread and continue to do your own thing, as that's clearly your intent. You've no interest in anyone else's opinion or advice.

" You've not once backed it up with any measure of proof"
Ok simple logic
for example...
spell damage is 3k, with pelinals aptitude, weapon damage is also 3k
there is your proof

Ergo your spell damage is okay for a magicka build(but what is your magicka, spell crit and spell pen at? One stat is meaningless) and your weapon damage blows for a stamina build. Wow that so proves us wrong!

Exactly (and that's just a small part of it) You* understand there is a vast difference between damage dealt and damage received, right? And by your own argument, you'd get more stat from DW, which has also been pointed out to you.

OP, why do you think Stam characters don't run sets that deal magic damage and vice versa?

Again, I refer you to the title of your own thread.

If it was working, even half as well as you claim, you wouldn't be getting kicked.

Either submit a parse, submit a parse from a fight of consequence, a video clip, something other than "I said so," or let it go.

*EDIT: 'You' as in OP, not @Magdalina . I don't want anyone mistaking someone with a clue for someone without.


[Edited for quote]

Flaaklypa

Well luckily sword and board are used in pvp. Its kinda sad they dont work as pure dmg but its mot only viable, but also bis for most classes in pvp.

Sword and board is my favourite setup so im happy with the way it is now

VaranisArano

frontend wrote: »

Well luckily sword and board are used in pvp. Its kinda sad they dont work as pure dmg but its mot only viable, but also bis for most classes in pvp.

Sword and board is my favourite setup so im happy with the way it is now

That's awesome, but this thread is from 2017.

Stinkyremy

frontend wrote: »

Well luckily sword and board are used in pvp. Its kinda sad they dont work as pure dmg but its mot only viable, but also bis for most classes in pvp.

Sword and board is my favourite setup so im happy with the way it is now

You just necrod a 3 year old thread. I do still have the character though, fun build.

Flaaklypa

Stinkyremy wrote: »

frontend wrote: »

Well luckily sword and board are used in pvp. Its kinda sad they dont work as pure dmg but its mot only viable, but also bis for most classes in pvp.

Sword and board is my favourite setup so im happy with the way it is now

You just necrod a 3 year old thread. I do still have the character though, fun build.

Ops, didnt see the date!! I just saw the title from google and responded

Stinkyremy

frontend wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

frontend wrote: »

Well luckily sword and board are used in pvp. Its kinda sad they dont work as pure dmg but its mot only viable, but also bis for most classes in pvp.

Sword and board is my favourite setup so im happy with the way it is now

You just necrod a 3 year old thread. I do still have the character though, fun build.

Ops, didnt see the date!! I just saw the title from google and responded

Might as well carry on until the mods lock it. Coincidence that I mentioned this thread I made on another thread a few days ago.
Why were you looking at the thread in the first place? Is there any help you needed?
Seriously the build is damn fun to use. I have used it in VMA plenty of times. I don't do PvP but can win duels with it too. As I said I still have the build. I do intend to put the gear on a dumner mag DK I have and switch the orc to a stam DK which was my intention after all, and recently, as in I was doing it all night yesterday and was doing it up to the patch maintenance, I was sorting out all my hoarded gear and found other sets that would add to this unique build.
I don't feel that we should have to follow meta in anything other than vet trials.
The OP of the players who kicked me, iirc weren't very high level and probably had no idea that anyone can use a sword and board without tanking. Subsequent dungeons where I used that character I text before starting saying unique build, no taunt and would like the set to make sure I didn't get kicked.