Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

BaylorCorvette

Rickter wrote: »

If youre interested in duels @BaylorCorvette I can get you into Kena's Legend dueling guild. It's really helped me come a long way.

I appreciate the offer and normally I'd take you up on it but I am maxed out on guilds and at the moment none of them I can cut. I'll keep that in the back of my mind for the future though.

I'm really not sure how I want to move forward with my build tbh. It works great in small scale, assuming I have one person that does burst. My DoTs tick really hard and are fantastic for applying pressure. The problem is by myself against really good players I'm SOL. I *could* build a pretty good dueling build but the problem is, aside from last night I'm rarely dueling. 90% of my fighting is open world. For instance I'm running bone pirate, fantastic resource management and great for open world but lacks the raw damage. The biggest problem I have as a StamSorc is that I HATE using Dizzying Swing / Wrecking Blow. I never can get that to land. Furthermore I currently run in 5 piece heavy armor, so I rely on Forward Momentum to remove snares. Before I change too much I may just wait a month until Summerset, when 2H & Bows will count double for set bonus. That will open things up a bit.

@technohic The mental image I had reading your post made me laugh, sorry for the misfortune but upgrades are good!

Vapirko

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

If youre interested in duels @BaylorCorvette I can get you into Kena's Legend dueling guild. It's really helped me come a long way.

I appreciate the offer and normally I'd take you up on it but I am maxed out on guilds and at the moment none of them I can cut. I'll keep that in the back of my mind for the future though.

I'm really not sure how I want to move forward with my build tbh. It works great in small scale, assuming I have one person that does burst. My DoTs tick really hard and are fantastic for applying pressure. The problem is by myself against really good players I'm SOL. I *could* build a pretty good dueling build but the problem is, aside from last night I'm rarely dueling. 90% of my fighting is open world. For instance I'm running bone pirate, fantastic resource management and great for open world but lacks the raw damage. The biggest problem I have as a StamSorc is that I HATE using Dizzying Swing / Wrecking Blow. I never can get that to land. Furthermore I currently run in 5 piece heavy armor, so I rely on Forward Momentum to remove snares. Before I change too much I may just wait a month until Summerset, when 2H & Bows will count double for set bonus. That will open things up a bit.

@technohic The mental image I had reading your post made me laugh, sorry for the misfortune but upgrades are good!

2H is *** against good players. Stam Sorc rips pretty hard with DW. The only issue with dw is that fights can take a bit more time so it’s harder to 1vX sometimes when you need to make reallt short work of pugs which the 2H is good for. But all things considered dw is better and the snare from shrouded daggers really keeps people inside hurricane plus it’s decnet damage. I’ve been using bow backbar and poison injection to help with the execute phase since dw does lack some burst in that respect. Personally TK and medium is plenty of survivability with vigor, rending slashes, and crit surge.

Rickter

I second what Vapirko said. Im dw 5 med stamdk and it opened up a whole new world for me.

Also: there is a lot of talk and hype for the 2h builds next patch so i wouldnt write it off yet

DeadlyRecluse

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

I *could* build a pretty good dueling build but the problem is, aside from last night I'm rarely dueling. 90% of my fighting is open world.

There really isn't any way around this problem. A good dueling build is obv. focused on single target pressure and frequently lining up burst. A good open world build has to rock more mitigation and sustain so you can shrug off multiple threats while doing work.

There are some setups that work well for both, but the goals are different enough that there isn't a real solution (esp. if you consider the banlists in place for most competitive dueling scenes).

Vapirko

Rickter wrote: »

I second what Vapirko said. Im dw 5 med stamdk and it opened up a whole new world for me.

Also: there is a lot of talk and hype for the 2h builds next patch so i wouldnt write it off yet

It sucks for classes like stam DK and stam sorc were all stuck behind be 2H skills. It’ll be great for NB and Templar and warden. Plus they’re lowering both the heavy and light attack damage next patch for melee 2H. Stam sorcs are gonna benefit from the increased LA damage of DW, plus the LA boost from bound armaments and the boost to LA from the way they’ll scale of max stat not to mention stam sorcs get a natural stat boost from bound armaments as well. Gonna be powerful LA weaving.

Adenoma

I'm excited for some of the itemization changes. At first I didn't think I'd significantly change my build, but the 2h as 2 item pieces is opening up a lot of exciting stuff.

@Vapirko is on point with shrouded daggers - it's totally under-recognized. The last bounce hits about as hard as an incap. When I've been running with my friends in our 6-man group we've had DPS running that as a "spammable." The snare is fantastic because it gets folks either swapping off of defensive bars to pop forward momentum, forces folks to dodge roll because for some reason people think that helps, and opens them up to steel tornado and big sub assaults.

BaylorCorvette

Vapirko wrote: »

2H is *** against good players. Stam Sorc rips pretty hard with DW. The only issue with dw is that fights can take a bit more time so it’s harder to 1vX sometimes when you need to make reallt short work of pugs which the 2H is good for. But all things considered dw is better and the snare from shrouded daggers really keeps people inside hurricane plus it’s decnet damage. I’ve been using bow backbar and poison injection to help with the execute phase since dw does lack some burst in that respect. Personally TK and medium is plenty of survivability with vigor, rending slashes, and crit surge.

Rickter wrote: »

I second what Vapirko said. Im dw 5 med stamdk and it opened up a whole new world for me.

Also: there is a lot of talk and hype for the 2h builds next patch so i wouldnt write it off yet

Both y'all run in Medium? It's been a long time since I've tried. I've been so apprehensive about doing so, guess I just need to do it and see what happens.

I hear what you're saying about 2H not being great against experienced players. Also the current build I run, there are so many physical DoTs I'm landing that I proc implosion a fair amount. Only down side is the lack of reliability. But still, on StamSorc not running an execute isn't the end of the world I suppose.

Rickter

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

I *could* build a pretty good dueling build but the problem is, aside from last night I'm rarely dueling. 90% of my fighting is open world.

There really isn't any way around this problem. A good dueling build is obv. focused on single target pressure and frequently lining up burst. A good open world build has to rock more mitigation and sustain so you can shrug off multiple threats while doing work.

There are some setups that work well for both, but the goals are different enough that there isn't a real solution (esp. if you consider the banlists in place for most competitive dueling scenes).

This too. In Legend, tournamnet rules have been formulated through what is widely known, or tested to be overperforming and aince the game isnt balanced around duels, their rules try to balance the competition as much as possible making it as competitive as possible. Whereas open world - anything goes.

Rickter

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

2H is *** against good players. Stam Sorc rips pretty hard with DW. The only issue with dw is that fights can take a bit more time so it’s harder to 1vX sometimes when you need to make reallt short work of pugs which the 2H is good for. But all things considered dw is better and the snare from shrouded daggers really keeps people inside hurricane plus it’s decnet damage. I’ve been using bow backbar and poison injection to help with the execute phase since dw does lack some burst in that respect. Personally TK and medium is plenty of survivability with vigor, rending slashes, and crit surge.

Rickter wrote: »

I second what Vapirko said. Im dw 5 med stamdk and it opened up a whole new world for me.

Also: there is a lot of talk and hype for the 2h builds next patch so i wouldnt write it off yet

Both y'all run in Medium? It's been a long time since I've tried. I've been so apprehensive about doing so, guess I just need to do it and see what happens.

Ive ran at least 5 medium since Jan of 2017 bro. Shuffle+defensive set and dk major mending and you can make it work. At least for me. Cant speak for everyone and im not the best example by far.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

I'm excited for some of the itemization changes. At first I didn't think I'd significantly change my build, but the 2h as 2 item pieces is opening up a lot of exciting stuff.

@Vapirko is on point with shrouded daggers - it's totally under-recognized. The last bounce hits about as hard as an incap. When I've been running with my friends in our 6-man group we've had DPS running that as a "spammable." The snare is fantastic because it gets folks either swapping off of defensive bars to pop forward momentum, forces folks to dodge roll because for some reason people think that helps, and opens them up to steel tornado and big sub assaults.

I started with shrouded but switched to flying blade. The increased dmg is not noticeable and i had way more killing blows with shrouded. But its my main source of major brutality so the 28meter range v the 8m range was the deciding factor for me

BaylorCorvette

Yup, shrouded has been my bread and butter for a while now. Especially when a couple people are clumped together, once it starts bouncing the damage is pretty good.

Like I said, my current build is pretty good but needs fine tuning. I think I'm going to experiment with a few different set ups and see what I like. So if anyone face rolls me in the next week or so that's why (or at least that's my excuse and I'm going to stick to it ) My end goal is still a build for open world but I need to do something about a little more burst.

Rickter

hey @Vapirko or @technohic

which of you two were saying infused jewelry was going to be dope? with cost reduction infused jewelry - it will be dope:

technohic

Rickter wrote: »

hey @Vapirko or @technohic

which of you two were saying infused jewelry was going to be dope? with cost reduction infused jewelry - it will be dope:

Lol. Well I’m sure that will be adjusted but we aren’t coming out of this patch without a few screw ups

DeadlyRecluse

Even "unbugged" infused potion cooldown redux jewelry will be strong...

...but expensive to fully utilize. Tripots on (very short) cooldown, yo.

Rickter

technohic wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

hey @Vapirko or @technohic

which of you two were saying infused jewelry was going to be dope? with cost reduction infused jewelry - it will be dope:

Lol. Well I’m sure that will be adjusted but we aren’t coming out of this patch without a few screw ups

its really broken.

You can run bi stat food
And tri stat reduction
And warrior stone
And abilities cost less than 500 stam and make up all the loss of max resources

Adenoma

@rickter, I disagree - the damage on that last bounce is OP. Single target you're really not going to notice anything, but 1vX or small scale it exerts a really respectable amount of pressure. Plus, it executes low health targets and smart targets those if there are more bounce options than just 3.

casparian

Adenoma wrote: »

@rickter, I disagree - the damage on that last bounce is OP. Single target you're really not going to notice anything, but 1vX or small scale it exerts a really respectable amount of pressure. Plus, it executes low health targets and smart targets those if there are more bounce options than just 3.

Wait wait, Shrouded prioritizes enemies with lower health?

That's amazing.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

@rickter, I disagree - the damage on that last bounce is OP. Single target you're really not going to notice anything, but 1vX or small scale it exerts a really respectable amount of pressure. Plus, it executes low health targets and smart targets those if there are more bounce options than just 3.

Im not. . . disagreeing with you, despite you taking whatever opportunity you can to disagree with me. I said the increase in dmg from Flying Blade morph was not noticeable. Or at least thats what I meant. I also said i got more killing blows with Shrouded.

but my P.O.V. and deciding factor was that Flying blade has a whopping 28 meter range and i can get major brutality going far sooner than with shrouded dagger. Both morphs snare and execute.

However, in group play, Shrouded Dagger is far superior.

Rickter

casparian wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@rickter, I disagree - the damage on that last bounce is OP. Single target you're really not going to notice anything, but 1vX or small scale it exerts a really respectable amount of pressure. Plus, it executes low health targets and smart targets those if there are more bounce options than just 3.

Wait wait, Shrouded prioritizes enemies with lower health?

That's amazing.

its a dual wield passive. All dual wield abilities deal more dmg to low health targets effectively making them passive executes

Vapirko

Rickter wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@rickter, I disagree - the damage on that last bounce is OP. Single target you're really not going to notice anything, but 1vX or small scale it exerts a really respectable amount of pressure. Plus, it executes low health targets and smart targets those if there are more bounce options than just 3.

Wait wait, Shrouded prioritizes enemies with lower health?

That's amazing.

its a dual wield passive. All dual wield abilities deal more dmg to low health targets effectively making them passive executes

I’m still guessing blood thirsty on a dw dot build is going to be brutally strong. If you’ve got a build that can sacrifice a little max stat.

BaylorCorvette

Good news, they added a few things that were left out of the original patch notes. Earthgore's heal is now spread out over 6 seconds, instead of 3.

Adenoma

I’m sorry, @Rickter , I misinterpreted what you were saying. I still feel that shrouded is the correct choice even solo. Getting major brutality sooner is a relatively minor thing, IMO and the range issue seems a bit trivial - I’ve always been pretty anti-gap closer besides stamNB because I believe a lot in the “if you build it they will come” approach and enjoy the bar space. Same applies to medium armor stamDK imo, especially because of medium armor speed passives.

I just disagree when I disagree.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

I’m sorry, @Rickter , I misinterpreted what you were saying. I still feel that shrouded is the correct choice even solo. Getting major brutality sooner is a relatively minor thing, IMO and the range issue seems a bit trivial - I’ve always been pretty anti-gap closer besides stamNB because I believe a lot in the “if you build it they will come” approach and enjoy the bar space. Same applies to medium armor stamDK imo, especially because of medium armor speed passives.

I just disagree when I disagree.

I think we're probably just talking about two different things. Im mainly speaking in terms of 1:1 encounters vs group play or 1vX. And turtle playstyle is totally viable and i see a lot of people win with that style so it just depends on how aggressive you want to be. Ive dueled folks that have wanted to turtle and i just pelt them with the longer range of flying blade, they come eventually.

in any case sounds like a fundamental difference in playstyle preference. as always.

Adenoma

Well, I won’t tell you how you can or can’t play.

BaylorCorvette

I will say it's hilarious when you DoT up a magDK with bleeds and kite them with daggers. Especially as a Sorc. I've trolled many magDK's doing this.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

Well, I won’t tell you how you can or can’t play.

fantastic - because ive never done that either. EVER. because we all know opinions on morality and server health dont equal to telling someone how they can and cant play - theyre just opinions on the subject and should be taken as such and not held onto for almost a year.

Adenoma

And my mind goes back to a girl I left some years ago who told me just hold on loosely, but don't let go. If you cling too tightly, you're going to lose control.

Rickter

Adenoma wrote: »

And my mind goes back to a girl I left some years ago who told me just hold on loosely, but don't let go. If you cling too tightly, you're going to lose control.

Apoxsee

Dammit, you two are like a disfuctional married couple. Always trying to get the last word, lol.

Grimlok_S

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

If youre interested in duels @BaylorCorvette I can get you into Kena's Legend dueling guild. It's really helped me come a long way.

I appreciate the offer and normally I'd take you up on it but I am maxed out on guilds and at the moment none of them I can cut. I'll keep that in the back of my mind for the future though.

I'm really not sure how I want to move forward with my build tbh. It works great in small scale, assuming I have one person that does burst. My DoTs tick really hard and are fantastic for applying pressure. The problem is by myself against really good players I'm SOL. I *could* build a pretty good dueling build but the problem is, aside from last night I'm rarely dueling. 90% of my fighting is open world. For instance I'm running bone pirate, fantastic resource management and great for open world but lacks the raw damage. The biggest problem I have as a StamSorc is that I HATE using Dizzying Swing / Wrecking Blow. I never can get that to land. Furthermore I currently run in 5 piece heavy armor, so I rely on Forward Momentum to remove snares. Before I change too much I may just wait a month until Summerset, when 2H & Bows will count double for set bonus. That will open things up a bit.

@technohic The mental image I had reading your post made me laugh, sorry for the misfortune but upgrades are good!

I always found dagger underwhelming.

Keep an eye for the Psijiic skill Imbued weapons. Adds x phys damage on next LA for 2s. A melee stam spammable for classes that don't have one.

My DW sDK might just burst harder than 2h ever could.