Shor PC/NA "Official" Discussion

DeadlyRecluse

Rickter wrote: »

Yeah we saw you and TM around brk and we got sandwiched between ep and ad. I had two ep dragon leaps and one ad meteor on my death recount at one point

That BRK defense and skirmish afterwards was a great bit of fighting.

Was sad in hindsight we didn't go straight to shor that night, but we were running a little casual and it looked like sotha wasn't too yellow. Was pretty garbo though.

Kartalin

Rickter wrote: »

Yeah we saw you and TM around brk and we got sandwiched between ep and ad. I had two ep dragon leaps and one ad meteor on my death recount at one point

Technically it wasn't a TM group -- there were 6 of us in group, 3 of which were TM. Just friends running together on an off night.

When we first arrived to the campaign, AD literally only controlled Faregyl. We took back some keeps and eventually got the dethrone, but it was incredibly disappointing how poorly defended some of the keeps were. Some good fights at BRK though, and afterwards some good fights with DC.

Raknosh

Yea last night was pretty weird. I was hearing in guild chat that EP emped with 40-50. When we got into shor, EP had the ring + Warden. It looked like we would have a tough opposition At every keep we went, it was 20 DC vs 5 EP defending. Any zerg they might have had 30 min ago had somehow vanished.

Rickter wrote: »

Raknosh wrote: »

We're not dumb tho, we can all see PvP is dying.

Really? you think so?

Compared to just 1-2 year ago, the populations are pretty sad. I totally understand why you don't want Vivec kind of pop (no one hates vivec more than me) but I think that 2 bars all across, occasionally 3 is the perfect kind of pop to have good action non stop.

DeadlyRecluse

Raknosh wrote: »

Yea last night was pretty weird. I was hearing in guild chat that EP emped with 40-50. When we got into shor, EP had the ring + Warden. It looked like we would have a tough opposition At every keep we went, it was 20 DC vs 5 EP defending. Any zerg they might have had 30 min ago had somehow vanished.

It's almost like they were more interested in crowning emp than defending...or even that they wanted to be dethroned...

Hexquisite

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's almost like they were more interested in crowning emp than defending...or even that they wanted to be dethroned...

Yeah Monday night after DC got Emp. I kept waiting for the 2 Bars of EP to do something, or even the one bar of AD that were on. No one tried to take anything. We got bored and went to do a trial, 30ish mins later I check the map and AD has Emp, and most of the map is yellow.

Perhaps there is only one hour that there is good even playtime on Shor, I don't know.

casparian

Hexquisite wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's almost like they were more interested in crowning emp than defending...or even that they wanted to be dethroned...

Yeah Monday night after DC got Emp. I kept waiting for the 2 Bars of EP to do something, or even the one bar of AD that were on. No one tried to take anything. We got bored and went to do a trail, 30 mins later I check the map and AD has Emp, and most of the map is yellow.

Perhaps there is only one hour that there is good even playtime on Shor, I don't know.

That's the secret of most zergs: most of them don't actually want to fight against groups that could challenge them. They want
- achievements
- easy AP
- the feeling of winning

Of course, there are big groups that actively seek out good fights for the sake of competition and challenge (TM etc.), but the current EP blob and its AD incarnation are not among them.

Vapirko

Grimlok_S wrote: »

I think someone broke Cyrodiil.

While held to our home keeps DC toons had the alliance emperor health buff, as well as Enemy Keeps IV yesterday. All while an EP was reigning emp. Buffs stayed after they were dethroned and and AD crowned.

Spoke briefly with some AD and EP while their faction was reigning, they didn't seem to be getting the emp health buff.

I've always thought the faction being beaten to their gates should be buffed rather than the already dominant force but don't think this is intended.

Edit: to clarify it showed up in the character stat sheet but not the alliance war buff tab.

I noticed this also. Didn’t stop EP from zerging hard to scrolls.

Hexquisite wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's almost like they were more interested in crowning emp than defending...or even that they wanted to be dethroned...

Yeah Monday night after DC got Emp. I kept waiting for the 2 Bars of EP to do something, or even the one bar of AD that were on. No one tried to take anything. We got bored and went to do a trial, 30ish mins later I check the map and AD has Emp, and most of the map is yellow.

Perhaps there is only one hour that there is good even playtime on Shor, I don't know.

There’s just a few groups on right now, even guilds, that avoid fights. They’ll knowingly go and pvdoor the faction that doesn’t have any players on. I’ve seen it two or three times on off hours in the last couple of days. I’ll sit around waiting for them to come over to glade after pvdooring scrolls on the empty faction but it almost never happens. If it does it’s a group that tries once and then quits when they don’t win.

Raknosh

I really love how they failed to emp even tho they had 3 bars vs 1-1 at some point xD

Rickter

Just finished for the night in Shor. So I just want to get this on the table and its my hope that you all do not take this the wrong way, get defensive and start some bad blood.

I am highly disappointed in what I saw from [snip - name and shame] tonight. We all were, even EP. There are some, like myself that have worked very hard to build a healthy ecosystem on Shor in which the Destro; Proxy; Llambris/Grothdar; Negate blob train filth does not exist. However, [snip - name and shame] brought this brain dead, shameful meta onto the server tonight.

I used to look upon [snip - name and shame] highly, considering them a long time, old school, accomplished premium PvP guild, but after tonight, a lot of that perception was considerably diminished. Every single engagement was fire-and-forget proxy det, then blob destro - even when you were out played north of bleakers, when you pushed back down the hill and we went through the rocks to the left and surprised you from behind, I could just tell we outplayed you but sure enough, the destros went off and it just burned us to the ground as we had no defense for it aside from 1 barrier and a nova that was negated.

This blatant disrespect for fellow PvPers on a server you know damn well doesnt condone or play like that is why threads like this exist:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382660/the-current-destro-pain-train-meta-needs-to-die

And mark my words, ZOS is looking into this abusive gameplay strategy. Enjoy it while it lasts, clearly.

At one point (and this was NOT [snip - name and shame] but another AD group) there was about 15 AD that was doing the same thing on the third floor of the Ash gate (opposite of where [snip - name and shame] was as they were at the Chalman gate) and they set a camp on the top of the gate and get this: would rather fire siege down on us than engage us in the open field!!!

unbelievable. I never in my life have seen what I saw tonight. I literally parked my group on the ground i nthe middle of the field and we stood there waiting for them to engage us and they set up siege and fired down on us. This is Vivec competitiveness?

Oh yeah and lets not forget the DC Tri Keep AP farm attempt. Im glad ya'll thought better of it and abandoned Glade. Better late than never.

I implore you, the next time you decide "hey lets go to Shor tonight!" please be considerate of our ecosystem. What I saw tonight was a guild visiting, and treating the entire server with immense disrespect akin to being a guest at someone's house and leaving trash everywhere, not flushing the toilet after a number 2, etc.

Again, I am putting this on the table and not trying to start a blood feud. It wasnt anger, it was true and genuine disappointment. Your guild has a legacy, whether you want it or not, please represent yourselves better.

A_G_G_R_O

Destroy ult spamming proxy det blob zergs? are you sure you just weren't....... outplayed???

Grimlok_S

more like they left us like trash on the floor, ayoo

PenguinInACan

Rickter wrote: »

Just finished for the night in Shor. So I just want to get this on the table and its my hope that you all do not take this the wrong way, get defensive and start some bad blood.

I am highly disappointed in what I saw from [snip - name and shame] tonight. We all were, even EP. There are some, like myself that have worked very hard to build a healthy ecosystem on Shor in which the Destro; Proxy; Llambris/Grothdar; Negate blob train filth does not exist. However, [snip - name and shame] brought this brain dead, shameful meta onto the server tonight.

I used to look upon [snip - name and shame] highly, considering them a long time, old school, accomplished premium PvP guild, but after tonight, a lot of that perception was considerably diminished. Every single engagement was fire-and-forget proxy det, then blob destro - even when you were out played north of bleakers, when you pushed back down the hill and we went through the rocks to the left and surprised you from behind, I could just tell we outplayed you but sure enough, the destros went off and it just burned us to the ground as we had no defense for it aside from 1 barrier and a nova that was negated.

This blatant disrespect for fellow PvPers on a server you know damn well doesnt condone or play like that is why threads like this exist:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382660/the-current-destro-pain-train-meta-needs-to-die

And mark my words, ZOS is looking into this abusive gameplay strategy. Enjoy it while it lasts, clearly.

At one point (and this was NOT [snip - name and shame] but another AD group) there was about 15 AD that was doing the same thing on the third floor of the Ash gate (opposite of where [snip - name and shame] was as they were at the Chalman gate) and they set a camp on the top of the gate and get this: would rather fire siege down on us than engage us in the open field!!!

unbelievable. I never in my life have seen what I saw tonight. I literally parked my group on the ground i nthe middle of the field and we stood there waiting for them to engage us and they set up siege and fired down on us. This is Vivec competitiveness?

Oh yeah and lets not forget the DC Tri Keep AP farm attempt. Im glad ya'll thought better of it and abandoned Glade. Better late than never.

I implore you, the next time you decide "hey lets go to Shor tonight!" please be considerate of our ecosystem. What I saw tonight was a guild visiting, and treating the entire server with immense disrespect akin to being a guest at someone's house and leaving trash everywhere, not flushing the toilet after a number 2, etc.

Again, I am putting this on the table and not trying to start a blood feud. It wasnt anger, it was true and genuine disappointment. Your guild has a legacy, whether you want it or not, please represent yourselves better.

So it's okay for us to play on shor so long as we play the way you want us to? I see lots of complaints of the zergs each faction can bring to try and emp. I guess people can only fight them if they adhere to shor specific playstyles.

You can call it abusive as long as you want, but first show me a better way to fight outnumbered as a group without the best aoe dps tools in the game.

I'm sorry you were offended by our playstyle. We were under the impression that shor was needing in medium sized AD guilds during primetime. Next time be more specific in your requests.

Eg. "WANTED: AD guild to fight against that doesn't use group builds or destro or proxy that runs no more than x people and can't react to stealth bombs. Please assure win % to be less than or equal to 50% to avoid upsetting server morale."

Kartalin

We never went above 12 people. We don't put down siege unless it's the front door of a keep/outpost. We genuinely try to separate from the rest of our faction. We don't push tri-keeps (checked out glade when it was yellow for any action but then left) even though we frequently show up to the campaign without almost any keeps. All of this and both ep and dc were up to 3 bars at different points in the evening and ad didn't go past 2 bars.

I guess we just weren't the farmable yellows you were hoping for.

Drakkdjinn

TBH when I saw your group try to stealth bomb us before we knew you were there, then respawn and chase us all the way to east jesus, camp up then try to engage again, I personally concluded you were eager for some instant pvp action.

Guess that wasn't the case; so no shade, good fights, and all the best to my Requiem friends.

BUT P.S here mate -- Shor ain't yo' house, we poop where we please.

Munavar

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (not really) but you 'guild sneak attack'
"... we went through the rocks to the left and surprised you from behind, I could just tell we outplayed you ..."
was anything but a surprise. You were spotted on that attempt. Specifically by me, sent over there as the raid lead had a hunch. There was no being 'outplayed'.

I do not keep track of the head count, but I think we were running 12 at that point. Well within your 'decree' for campaign group size.

Let's be honest, you want squishy AD that you can treat as speed bumps.

Glade was not an AP farm attempt. Figured the 3 (might of been 2 at that point) bars of DC had to be somewhere. There was a fight. There was other AD there so we left.

As far as visiting, there have been a few nights over the past couple of weeks that the we have been there. This just happened to be the first time we crossed paths.

Vapirko

The first rule of destro spam blob guilds, denial.

PenguinInACan

Vapirko wrote: »

The first rule of destro spam blob guilds, denial.

I don't see anyone denying we use destro ult as a primary source of AOE dps. I only see people complaining about a playstyle without actually understanding how that playstyle actually works.

Just because you are killed by a destro/prox bomb doesn't mean that the only thing that happens is prox and destro. Assuming that is the case and insulting the people that play that way is a knee-jerk reaction to not really understanding how the game works. It's like me saying the 1vX playstyle is boring and abusive because all you need is crit charge, uppercut, db and an execute. I don't 1vX very much, and I don't trash talk 1vX-ers. If you don't "destro spam blob" then don't discount the playstyle because I can guarantee you it is much more difficult than just "spamming destro".

Again, it's not our fault people don't like fighting against that playstyle. We don't like fighting 50 man zergs on vivec, but we do it, and we use all the tools we have to do so. We wont apologize that the 3 bars of EP and DC on Shor leave as soon as they get beat once or twice.

Maybe instead of venting on the forums and bashing guilds, people might consider talking in-game and either a) asking for group advice as to how to counter ALL types of groups you might encounter or b) saying "hey, i really like your guild, but you're kind of rolling over most of the server and pissing people off, could you go somewhere else?" But @Rikter needs his forum plugs so I guess any friendly communication between guilds is now contingent on whether or not he approves of our builds before we get to fight him.

gabriebe

I think the point you are missing is that most people don't want to run builds to counter destro/negate trains, because they just dislike the playstyle. That's the kind of play style that is a hallmark of Vivec, while Shor is more or less a refuge for people who want more casual fights. Some groups prefer to hash it out in fights that have more single abilities than massive AOEs.

To each his own, but every time I have been in Shor with a proper compositioned group (usually because of Vivec queues and lag) the map fell dead pretty quick because the people we were fighting weren't interested or equipped to deal with us, and we weren't interest in PvDooring more than like 15 minutes.

It's just a bit out of place to come in a low pop campaign where people go *because it is low pop* with an organized, experienced and exclusive 12+ people raid. It's not just a matter of git gud.

Makes me think of Kyne recently when 5 of us would be defending Ash at like 6 am against like 30 ADs and we would have 2 coldfire ballistas on us, plus a coldfire treb. Like.... just chill once in a while.

PenguinInACan

gabriebe wrote: »

I think the point you are missing is that most people don't want to run builds to counter destro/negate trains, because they just dislike the playstyle. That's the kind of play style that is a hallmark of Vivec, while Shor is more or less a refuge for people who want more casual fights. Some groups prefer to hash it out in fights that have more single abilities than massive AOEs.

To each his own, but every time I have been in Shor with a proper compositioned group (usually because of Vivec queues and lag) the map fell dead pretty quick because the people we were fighting weren't interested or equipped to deal with us, and we weren't interest in PvDooring more than like 15 minutes.

It's just a bit out of place to come in a low pop campaign where people go *because it is low pop* with an organized, experienced and exclusive 12+ people raid. It's not just a matter of git gud.

Makes me think of Kyne recently when 5 of us would be defending Ash at like 6 am against like 30 ADs and we would have 2 coldfire ballistas on us, plus a coldfire treb. Like.... just chill once in a while.

I completely agree that the playstyle is overkill against low pop. But we weren't fight low pop. EP was running around with 25-30 trying to emp and getting scrolls with 3 bars. DC had similar sized groups also with 3 bars. We had 12 (with AD at 2 bars or less) and were alone away from the rest of AD for the majority of the night. And it isn't like this is a new thing for people to encounter a unfamiliar playstyle and lose. People need to stop with the whole "they beat us but they are doing this thing I dislike" mindset and just learn and adapt. Or if you are comfortable and happy doing what you are doing then that's fine too. But don't complain about people who enjoy doing something different when you lose a fight or two. We all lose fights.

We try and be very cognizant of map effectiveness as we don't home the server and don't want to mess with campaign balance, but when I get teabagged at an AD home keep by a 27 man EP group when there are only 2 people in my group because it's still early, you better be sure I'm going to be prepared to make that zerg melt the next time I see them and I actually have 8-12 people.

gabriebe

Plenty of people know and don't want to adapt, because that's just fundamentally not how they want to play. Most of the organized groups you will find in Shor don't really have a proper group comp because they're just a hodge podge of friends who want to have some casual fun. I don't really have anything against organized groups with your kind of setup, but there is a time and place for it. I just don't think Shor is that place.

TipsyDrow

gabriebe wrote: »

I think the point you are missing is that most people don't want to run builds to counter destro/negate trains, because they just dislike the playstyle. That's the kind of play style that is a hallmark of Vivec, while Shor is more or less a refuge for people who want more casual fights. Some groups prefer to hash it out in fights that have more single abilities than massive AOEs.

To each his own, but every time I have been in Shor with a proper compositioned group (usually because of Vivec queues and lag) the map fell dead pretty quick because the people we were fighting weren't interested or equipped to deal with us, and we weren't interest in PvDooring more than like 15 minutes.

It's just a bit out of place to come in a low pop campaign where people go *because it is low pop* with an organized, experienced and exclusive 12+ people raid. It's not just a matter of git gud.

Makes me think of Kyne recently when 5 of us would be defending Ash at like 6 am against like 30 ADs and we would have 2 coldfire ballistas on us, plus a coldfire treb. Like.... just chill once in a while.

Well, Gabe maybe if you hadn't teased and taunted them with Litterbox Barbie they wouldn't have cold fired us!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyhrYis509A

A_G_G_R_O

I think there is a lot of salt on here because you guys got outplayed by some pros that can hit both the R key whilst holding the W key. This is a complex game style you cannot comprehend, it involves 2 to 3 keys max spread across one whole trials group, unlike the typical AD outplaying where it’s someone in stealth hitting only one key attached snipe this requires multiple phalanges working in synchronized fashion to a degree unprecedented.

Don’t be mad bro, you got outplayed by the most complex strats in the game....

gabriebe

Not to play devil's advocate, but it does take skill and effort to run an organized group, with large scale AOEs and all that. I'm just saying most people who go in Shor don't go there to be super competitive, with a detailed min/max group comp, and bringing such a group there kinda kills the mood.

DeadlyRecluse

Everything old is new again.

Rickter

I cant say I was expecting different responses, just maybe I was hoping my post would be taken to heart. Criticism isnt easy to take. And I understand my approach isnt always subtle. A lot of people come to appreciate that about me, actually. Cant win em all, right?

I guess let me address the CaptainSaveAHoes that came to the defense of the guild honor there. Didnt realize you all had forums accounts. Easy way to pad an argument I suppose.. .

Munavar wrote: »

Let's be honest, you want squishy AD that you can treat as speed bumps.

Hey @joesmith583b14_ESO @Lord_Hev @Glory @A_G_G_R_O @Takuto etc - ya'll hear that? youre the "AD we treat as speed bumps". Sorry Munavar, but Requiem has been fighting against some of, if not the best ESO PvPers of 2017.

No one on AD in Shor is what I would consider "squishy" especially for a group like mine where we arent min/maxed or run the loathed meta that your group does. The only way we win (if we win) is through coordination. I'd even argue we win with numbers often as well. The style of play you literally introduced last night onto Shor is not about being squishy or not, its a borderline exploit. you know its the "best" and easiest way to deal with grouped players. You absolutely know that. You'd rather force us into building to counter that playstyle (more tanky, more defensive ultimates, or simply building like you and then we can play ring around the rosy until someone dumps their ult so then i can dump my ults blah blah boring) than turn away from a meta that frankly, is not respected by anyone. Its not just me. Its not a "git gud" issue, no one wants it anymore. Look at the thread I posted above. I make the same group position calls, focus targets, and timing ultis that your group does, trust me, i make the same calls, its about how there is a meta, that however necessary on servers like Vivec are absolutely abusive anywhere else

Munavar wrote: »

I hate to be the bearer of bad news (not really) but you 'guild sneak attack'
"... we went through the rocks to the left and surprised you from behind, I could just tell we outplayed you ..."
was anything but a surprise. You were spotted on that attempt. Specifically by me, sent over there as the raid lead had a hunch. There was no being 'outplayed'.

Yes, about 3-4 of us were spotted. that was the plan. you guys went back down the hill, we went into the rocks to the left (your right) and came around behind you, engaged about 5 of you before the main group came back with timed destros (lul). I know "outplayed" is a strong word here, so we'll go with we "well played" that engagement.

In any case, your team only engaged us when you had destro ults up, we would literally watch you disengage IMMEDIATELY then engage once you had sufficient ultimates built up. My mind was literally blown.

PenguinInACan wrote: »

Maybe instead of venting on the forums and bashing guilds

I actually never called out a specific guild. If you look at my post, those are my edits, not a moderator's. So the fact that your entire guild knew exactly who i was referring to is rather telling.

I will say this: I've known [snip - name and shame] for a long time. And back when Vujk was doing work for you guys, [snip - name and shame] was a MUCH different guild. Much different. Thats where my respect came from.

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

BUT P.S here mate -- Shor ain't yo' house, we poop where we please.

Actually bud, it is. Not mine alone, there have been a lot of people who have contributed and worked hard. But I quite literally "home" on the server and the icon is a little house sorry, trolling aside, yeah man, I do feel like a "share holder" in the sense that I have invested my time on this server every day of it going live aside from 6 days. I pvp'd on Shor when no one else would give it the time of day and the environment you see today is due to that work and the work of others.

PenguinInACan wrote: »

We try and be very cognizant of map effectiveness as we don't home the server and don't want to mess with campaign balance, but when I get teabagged at an AD home keep by a 27 man EP group when there are only 2 people in my group because it's still early, you better be sure I'm going to be prepared to make that zerg melt the next time I see them and I actually have 8-12 people.

Look i understand that frustration and the animosity it can build, but you werent fighting EP, you were going after DC, so idk what youre trying to say here. I cant speak for EP but I can guarantee your group was never teabagged, gate keep farmed or hate whispered by mine. It's precisely why we dont conduct ourselves that way. And that should carry a lot of weight.


_________________________________________

In any case, @gabriebe was right on both accounts. There is a place for that ruthless, disregarding playstyle and all i was saying is Shor simply isnt that place. Regardless of your experiences with EP, you werent running against Dracarys, so what if there are a lot of EP? I know The Wolves™ were out, but those guys are just trying to have some fun and many of them are not dedicated PvPers. I apologize for the teabags, I hate that that still happens on Shor but for the most part, Shor is far cleaner than any other server and it should be respected and preserved.

I posted what I did because I feel strongly about this environment. I wasnt salty, or angry, just legitimately disappointed. A guild I had much respect for in the past acted exactly like that Rick James meme Drakkdjinn posted. And as funny as that skit is, the point even that skit was trying to make is that we all have to be considerate of each other. For the sake of maintaining positive community. We are your PEERS. We are real people, just trying to pvp for fun, you do NOT need to beat us into submission. You will run off the competition. why? because we arent competitive people!! lol. understand now? Shor as a server, is not competitive. Yes there are competitive players and they do run groups frequently, but they are just trying to push their limits by engaging unorganized (mostly) much larger groups.

I encourage you to try loosening up from that tight vivec meta. Let's say you have a few people that want to play as stamina, but never thought itd be competitive in pvp - NOW IS THE TIME, SHOR IS THE PLACE!! Loosen up and experiment with that, for-funzie build youve always wanted to try - Shor is a place where pvp dreams can happen. But only if you commit. Ive been there and Ive seen it happening. Last night was addressed because last night was the first time weve seen that sort of thing. You have a wonderful opportunity to show the Shor PvP Community™ what [snip - name and shame] is really capable of.

Grimlok_S

I think the frustration comes from the fact that the only real counter is more of the same, negate/destro/earthgore funtimes.

Nobody here wants to do that.

Spreading out is an option, but 6 proxy dets and a handful of swallow souls will still be more than plenty to near instajib a lone player.

A_G_G_R_O

Wait you mean people don’t enjoy light attacking till destro ult and negates are up? But how else does one do the outplaying? I’m certainly not about to use 10 different abilities on 2 bars if that’s what people are angling at.

pzschrek

Well, now I confess I feel a little bit embarrassed about all the times I said what a great guy Rickter was in the TM TS. Don't hate me guys. XD

A_G_G_R_O

I just want to start a pc fund so we can convince serjustin19 to play pc NA Shor with us so I can be a part of his glorious posts

DeadlyRecluse

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Wait you mean people don’t enjoy light attacking till destro ult and negates are up? But how else does one do the outplaying? I’m certainly not about to use 10 different abilities on 2 bars if that’s what people are angling at.

5 mages guild skills on destro frontbar to buff max magicka, 4 castable buffs (plus proxy) on backbar. All about dem stats.

...in all seriousness I tried a 4x mages guild skills+meteor frontbar on magplar once just to see how high dummy DPS i could get doing nothing but entropy+puncturing sweeps. It was faaaar to high for what was basically a single skill "rotation."