PTS Patch Notes v3.2.4

Urza1234

Sandman929 wrote: »

Seems to be a buff to heavy armor sustain rather than a nerf to heavy armor damage. Wrath wasn't really an issue, the fact that you can still get high damage through set buffs while getting all the benefit of damage mitigation with heavy is the issue.

Uh, no, they just deleted Wrath, then split Rapid Mending in half. There is literally no statistical compensation for the removal of Wrath.

To be clear, its not just that there is a net negative, its that HA receives absolutely nothing positive in return for the removal of Wrath

Tethalion

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Wrath: This passive ability has been replaced with the Revitalize passive, which increases the resources your Heavy Attacks restore by 12/25%.
[*]Rapid Mending: This passive ability no longer increases the amount of resources your Heavy Attacks restore, as that effect has been moved to the new Revitalize passive. It continues to increase your healing received by 4/8%.
Developer Comment:

We want each of the three armor types to have unique trade-offs. Heavy Armor’s main advantage is its increase to survivability, while the disadvantage is its lower damage and healing power. To emphasize this distinction, we’ve removed the Wrath passive.

I seriously feel like they were half-way into trying to alter/balance heavy armor in regards to Wrath, then realized it was 3pm on a Friday or something and everyone just said: "Stuff it, let's just give it half of an existing passive and go to the pub".

necronyteub17_ESO

Stupid damn Zos keeps nerfing stuff they shouldnt and doesnt do anything about the crap they should nerf.

TONS of stam builds out there with a crap load of consistant damage AND survives very well . So what does their [snip] do? They change something like frags on sorcs. Pull your heads out your [snip] and go play in Cyro, then your idiot [snip] can see which classes and builds are the problem. ITS NOT SORCS YOU MORONS.

[Edited to remove profanity]

necronyteub17_ESO

Hope they decide soon and roll the PTS stuff to live. This way i can dump this *** game if they screw it up more , at least find something decent before the holidays. Wont be worth paying the cash to stay if they roll this *** to live.

Sealeo

Finally managed to finish vMA last night! Thx Z.O.S. for nerfing the reward 2h I got after 3 months of pain in there. Is it so hard to find other ways to go? I am not sure if can keep playing this game any longer, it’s not because that I don’t want to, but the end game “community won’t let me”. I can’t play 24/7, so when I make a build, grind for a set/weapon I really need now that this setup is useful for a decent time. And the disrespect to change/nerf a reward like vMA weapon is for me totally unacceptable. You guys really need to be a bit more creative than that, and please start talking and listen to the community before it ends the same way as with swtor, who learned the bitter way, that including the community is necessary to survive. DON’T TUCH THE MAELSTROMS WEAPONS!! This change is not helping..
> Item Sets
Merciless Charge (Maelstrom 2H): Increased the damage done by this Item Set’s proc to 6000 damage over 5 seconds, up from 4300 damage over 5 seconds.

Merlin13KAGL

Calysis wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

iconofgrace wrote: »

Calysis wrote: »

I don't think locking dungeons out of the group finder is a great idea, especially the DLC dungeons / paid content.

If I were a newer player and paid for DLC, I'd expect to be able to play it. I understand that the DLC dungeons are more difficult than the non-DLC dungeons, but they are certainly doable. The attitude I've seen on here and in-game where people refuse to run dungeons with lower level players is gross. It's definitely not encouraging newer players to learn the game.

This particular change largely won't affect me. I've been CP cap for quite a while... but I do remember how lame it could be looking for a group in zone before Group Finder and dungeon scaling.

My two pennies.

Edit: removed the first part of my post because I misunderstood what exactly was being level-locked.

@iconofgrace @Calysis no paid content is locked out.

You can still access the content via wayshrine with your premade group at the level of your desire. The only aspect removed is with the Group Finder, where you otherwise have no control over how the blanks are filled in.

Being able to access content you are likely going to be unable to complete is not some great benefit you make it out to be.

Those dungeons have a difficulty standard for a reason. Thinking your group is going to be the first to somehow be strong enough to manage it, just because you have paid to access it is absurd. When purchased, I'm fairly certain the recommended level is indicated. If you choose to ignore that and want to beat your head against the wall for hours, you can still do so via wayshrine. You just can't pull up to three other unsuspecting people in with you.

There's nothing wrong with some level gating, especially when both requirements are very easy to obtain. (45 & cp160).

I am fully aware you can set up a premade group and hop right in.

The point I'm trying to get across is that newer players, the players this will affect the most, are not going to have the friends or guildmates to set up a premade group to access the content they paid for. So yes, these players are essentially prevented from accessing the content they were promised they could always access, at any point, via queuing in dungeon finder.

@Calysis most new players are not going to be able to complete said content below those minimums. It's why they're being implemented. If they purchase 'end game' content knowing they are not yet at end-game level, then nothing is a surprise here.

If they do happen to be exceptional, then they (like you) can still access the content via wayshrine. Nothing is lost here.

You're initially level gated with RGF with the standard content, as each dungeon was originally zone leveled and had additional mechanics that favored a certain level range or above.

You can walk in any of 5 trials solo and try to fist fight your way to victory, too, but it's completely pointless.

Again, it doesn't take long to hit level 45, so it's not as if it's a permanent lock out.

Also, not some great benefit? The benefit is that players can easily access and play the content that they paid for and were promised they could access at any time via dungeon finder. It doesn't matter if they can't complete it.

Tell that the the other three randoms that waste valuable time and resources when they get queued with that individual.

Not everyone is entitled to win a dungeon, everyone has to learn how to win and earn it.

Which you do by:

1. Learning your class.
2. Hitting the minimum required level to be able to queue as random.

Plus, I'm pretty sure many would argue that if they paid for it, they should be allowed to complete it, and if they can't,
then it should get nerfed until they can.

If someone isn't doing enough, that's what vote kick is for. Preventing players from being able to attempt these dungeons without a premade group until a certain level (at least for normal mode) is absurd when they were promised they had instant access, even if they queued via dungeon finder, as soon as they paid for it.

So you'd be comfortable with being able to access it repeatedly in RGF and subsequently getting kicked on arrival for your level? Because most groups don't "give it a try" when someone arrives arguably likely unable to complete an instance.

This actually prevents that by never allowing it to happen in the first place.

After this update, I won't be able to queue up with my last low-level character anymore for those dungeons even though I know I can successfully complete them because I have. I love doing most of the DLC dungeons, and for some reason the devs think it's alright to go back on their word because they think random players thrown into a group can't finish it when they can. Otherwise, what is the point of level scaling if they apparently aren't strong enough to complete normal dungeons? Aren't they scaled so they are strong enough?

Because there is more to these dungeons than just raw stats, as there should be. IMO, level scaling shouldn't be a thing. There are dozens of threads requesting this kind of limitation. Threads made by higher level characters, and threads requesting it by lower level characters. The cutoff determined is one based on these and many other factors, not simply #'s pulled out of thin air.

By your very words you imply that a normal should be a guaranteed clear, when in fact, it should be based on ability.

How would you feel if you paid for something and were promised you could access it at any point as soon as you pay for it, even with a certain method (dungeon finder), but then they go back on their word and prevent you from accessing this content via that method until a certain point. I'd feel confused and ripped off. Especially if these players have queued for those dungeons and have successfully completed those dungeons before the update, and for some reason after the update, they find out they no longer have access to these dungeons via dungeon finder.

On veteran mode, sure, I can see why they would lock the DLC dungeons behind CP 160. I'm aware that a typical PUG in a veteran mode DLC dungeon is like, as you say, beating your head against a wall. On normal mode, though? That's silly.

Here's an analogy:
It's as if I bought concert tickets. In the current scenario I can RGF and get grouped with some random people that may or may not be able to arrive on site, find their seat, or be able to pay attention more than 2 minutes at a time when the music plays. Oh, and because I used the RGF entrance, I also get a free drink during (+Spell/Weapon damage bonus) and a T-shirt after (Undaunted reward).

In the proposed scenario, I can still go to the concert, regardless. I simply have to find my own people, use a different door, and I don't get the drink or the shirt. My other option is I can wait another 45 minutes and have access to the same benefits I previously had.

If you can clear all the DLC dungeons at low level, even on norm, you've had good groups. Because there are far more instances where people don't, and that's why this was implemented.

I expect a notation in the purchase of the DLC to indicate these requirements. If you feel they are far too steep, still, then put in a CS ticket and ask for a refund (forfeiting any gear you've acquired in the process of course.)

Otherwise, if you can't manage to figure out how to use the wayshrine, if you can't manage to find 3 other people that are also somehow uncommonly capable at level 12, then I guess you can do what you must to meet the minimum requirements and know that with every RGF after, the odds of you getting 3 people that are not ready for said content will never be a concern with the DLC content you so aptly paid for.

red_emu

What is the point of this discussion? They already said everything is set in stone. Get ready for the nerf hammer.

TheNuminous1

manny254 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What happened to reducing the Secluded Grove healing output while maintaining the low cost? So it now got a healing nerf by 33% AND a cost increase from 75 to 90?

It is worth looking at the bigger picture. All of the major pvp defensive ults where nerfed. As an overall change this is good for the health of the game.

again with the pvp causing nerfs to pve.

i hope one day down the line they just accept that they cant balance the two and finally seperate them. rebuff all the nerfs that have effected pve and let pvpers cry and moan and get things nerfed for their own playstyle.

Leave PVE alone!

Weps

TheNuminous1 wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What happened to reducing the Secluded Grove healing output while maintaining the low cost? So it now got a healing nerf by 33% AND a cost increase from 75 to 90?

It is worth looking at the bigger picture. All of the major pvp defensive ults where nerfed. As an overall change this is good for the health of the game.

again with the pvp causing nerfs to pve.

i hope one day down the line they just accept that they cant balance the two and finally seperate them. rebuff all the nerfs that have effected pve and let pvpers cry and moan and get things nerfed for their own playstyle.

Leave PVE alone!

LOL, funny fact is that they could already do it, just using damned Battle Spirit.

No Crit on sets? Battle Spirit!
No Cost reduction in CP? Battle Spirit ( well, that could be done in the Champion System Star but hey )
Permablock nerfs? Battle Spirit. Mindless Shield stacking nerf? Battle Spirit. Poisons and resource draining ***? BATTLE SPIRIT NERF.

It's really not that difficult to start finding ways to contain the power creep without screwing everything up for anyone, but the prerequisite is that you have to care deeply about true balance and respecting the time players are investing in grinding and theorycrafting.

Can't balance a game with band-aid fixes, last second patches and without extensively playing the game you're working on like many of the people here are already doing

Izaki

No changes to the underperforming unqiue weapons... Especially Maelstrom DW, Asylum DW and the Asylum Bow....

The Maelstrom 2H buff isn't that great. Its a big buff, yes, but it doesn't make the weapon a game changer, it doesn't make you want to slot Crit Rush over Ambush (for example) and in most cases running a 1 piece monster set + 2 5 piece sets is more beneficial overall.

Dissentinel

Would really appreciate it if you guys revert the change to Battlegrounds that makes it CP. I really enjoy Battlegrounds being No-CP even though I am a Max-CP player myself. It allows me to hop into Battlegrounds whenever I like without having to pay gold or time to change my CP. I know I'll play a lot less Battlegrounds after Clockwork City if this change goes through because it's simply not worth the hassle.

gethighruletheworld

Why is it so hard to just buff Crystal Blast & make it a melee range ability? I've seen it suggested over & over again for years at this point. I just don't get it...

TheMystid

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What happened to reducing the Secluded Grove healing output while maintaining the low cost? So it now got a healing nerf by 33% AND a cost increase from 75 to 90?

And that's exactly what it deserves

Merlin13KAGL

TheMystid wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

What happened to reducing the Secluded Grove healing output while maintaining the low cost? So it now got a healing nerf by 33% AND a cost increase from 75 to 90?

And that's exactly what it deserves

Now if they'll just reduce the visual by about 50%, we'll be good...

IlCanis_LupuslI

Rohaus wrote: »

It is already difficult for 1vX these days with the Zerg trains... ZOS just keeps nerfing to the point where the game will eventually just be Zerg to kill or GTFO. Might as well just make everything AOE based and introduce global cool downs and remove light attacks and heavy attacks...

@Rohaus
Make a Troll Tank, start trolling :-D
I love trolling 3 man gank teams on my argonian dk in reactive, impregnable, malubeth with restoult backbsr :-D

DosPanchos

Learn some patience peeps... When this game was launched ZOS said they would implement balance changes slowly, and that's what they do. It's not perfect, but it's better than dramatic swings in power.
Just be patient and give good, quality feedback.

Micah_Bayer

You dropped the ball. Honestly you believe nerfing frags will make people switch to c-blast...look at the poll 92% are against you and some that said yes typed they clicked the wrong button and the other half are the tools who were using that terrible skill in the first place!

Micah_Bayer

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Wow, is that actually a nerf to Mag Sorcs? In 2 years, that may be the first

Shield nerf was a year ago

Micah_Bayer

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

On topic of the frags nerf: Nobody is going to use crystal blast for the stun - quite frankly said: nobody is going to use crystal blast at all.

It's still a good change to force them to choose either stun or damage using 2 different skills rather than getting everything in one package so easily. Other classes never had their highest burst also be their stun.

And on the topic of Crystal Blast, I have some build ideas for it. I always liked the AoE splash of it.
I just wish the Blood Magic passive was stronger heal or fixed so that it triggers on every hit of a dark magic skill rather than somehow checking for lingering effects like the stun and then not triggering healing until after that expires.

Hey @ZOS_Wrobel or @ZOS_GinaBruno do you know about the Blood Magic bug?
It doesn't heal on a second hit from a dark magic skill until the secondary effects of the first skill dissipate, making Encase only allow healing at least once every 5 seconds rather than the cooldown of Blood Magic at 1 second and the same for the stun from Crystal Blast interfering with the heal from multiple casts. That bug is severely hampering the ability of the Dark Magic skill line, which is another reason almost everyone relies on Surge for healing exclusively and only uses 1-2 skills at all from that line and doesn't choose Crystal Blast over Fragments.

Yeah your ideas are dumb. If you use it In any trial you will be kicked.

Micah_Bayer

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Darsaga wrote: »

First off I do not play Mag Sorc. I love how the reason behind the Frag nerf is because the skill does to many things, yet NB's skills all do multiple things.

It depends on what they do. Crystal Fragments is their highest burst damage, and it had a free stun. It was instant when procced and really cheap cost. Fewer people were slotting Rune Cage because of it.
It needed to not be the "jack of all trades" against the enemy. It's not very fun to get high damage smacked and stunned so you can't respond, especially with no way to see it coming with a cast.

Use your eyes. I don't even run add-ons and people can argue I am a top tier sorc.

Micah_Bayer

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Darsaga wrote: »

First off I do not play Mag Sorc. I love how the reason behind the Frag nerf is because the skill does to many things, yet NB's skills all do multiple things.

It depends on what they do. Crystal Fragments is their highest burst damage, and it had a free stun. It was instant when procced and really cheap cost. Fewer people were slotting Rune Cage because of it.
It needed to not be the "jack of all trades" against the enemy. It's not very fun to get high damage smacked and stunned so you can't respond, especially with no way to see it coming with a cast.

Use your eyes. I don't even run add-ons and people can argue I am a top tier sorc.

Barbaran wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Secluded growth still cheap....
crystal shards and crystal bombs....bad move. crystal shard is fine, crystal blast needs either more damage, a chance to cast it immediately, a stamina morph or another rework.
rune prison...no idea how this will work out.
shield wall sounds fair, panacea still a bit cheap.
scatter shot...whatever...
wrath passive gone from heavy armor without anything else...bad move again. at least be creative and give heavy armor something else instead of the increased damage, but don't take it just away.

one of my mains id a sorc, a 10-15k insta damage with a stun is too much man.
"but you have to proc it", it procs very frequent, many times i toss a frag, hit shield and then have another frag ready.
frag,wrath,frag or frag,wrath,crushing kills most people because of the stun.
there is a reason many people call sorc an easy class to play

So surprise attack and stun is okay for you? In light armour it does about 15k with no open. Frags will never hit 15k unless the guy isn't wearing impen

AzraelAcid

Derra wrote: »

On topic of the frags nerf: Nobody is going to use crystal blast for the stun - quite frankly said: nobody is going to use crystal blast at all.

With a sorc as my main, I can confirm this. There was never a point in any of my builds that I used Blast . I'm highly considering using neither in future builds.

WrathOfInnos

@AzraelAcid I've defaulted to neither since Morrowind. With the sustain changes, and the rise in heavy attack builds with the fall of spammable skills, frags just does not proc very often. Combine that with the previous 10% damage reduction, and it is hard to justify giving frags a skill slot. Especially considering the very full sorc bars in the era of pets > everything for DPS, and just slotting inner light or bound aegis will outperform the occasional frag proc.

The stun removal will not affect group PVE much, but I think one of the most fun and class defining skills in the sorc toolset has been dead for months.

Lokov

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Warden

• Green Balance
  • Secluded Grove: Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 90 Ultimate, up from 75.

facepalm...
You rlly think it is nerf? XD
yea i know that Wardens not the best DPS class in PVE, but let's talk bout PvP, as the balance of classes should be considered in this aspect:
This ultimate cost must be 125 or even higher! It's better then remembrance for now Cuz u still can fight or heal when it's active. U must think about 135-150 ulti cost. And please, do something with undodge warden's spam skills.
ZOS, You actually need to change Warden completely - it isn't correct that in a game with such fast fighting mechanics there are abilities with a delay like wardens have. Wardens can timing their skills to ONESHOT almost everyone and they have biggest survival potencial even without escape or line of sight skills. This is a little stupid, dont u think so?

Azurya

Hutch679 wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

wait.... so the wrath passive is being replaced with... NOTHING?

Thank god. The heavy armor tanky builds that deal a bunch of damage are super annoying. No one should be able to take 4 people on and gain a bunch of weapon and spell damage because they can take abuse.

YES 10 million players running in heavy armour around the bush are no longer your problem. That must have been very anoying that 4 hunks are not able to get one player down. Now you can sleep better, until the next build comes around the corner you can´t handle, but ZOS will NERF all for types like you.

Qbiken

Azurya wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

scipionumatia wrote: »

wait.... so the wrath passive is being replaced with... NOTHING?

Thank god. The heavy armor tanky builds that deal a bunch of damage are super annoying. No one should be able to take 4 people on and gain a bunch of weapon and spell damage because they can take abuse.

YES 10 million players running in heavy armour around the bush are no longer your problem. That must have been very anoying that 4 hunks are not able to get one player down. Now you can sleep better, until the next build comes around the corner you can´t handle, but ZOS will NERF all for types like you.

How to summarize the forum QQ´s with one post

Koensol

It's unbelievable how people can complain about the warden tree nerf. It obviously needed a cost increase. Just take a look in Cyrodiil. Stam wardens are so unbalanced its not even funny. Treetard spamming like there's no tomorrow.

preedb16_ESO2

DosPanchos wrote: »

Learn some patience peeps... When this game was launched ZOS said they would implement balance changes slowly, and that's what they do. It's not perfect, but it's better than dramatic swings in power.
Just be patient and give good, quality feedback.

Except, Morrowind patch changes were not slow or undramatic, they changed an incredible amount of things in one go, and even went completely bonkers compared to what they had on the PTS the day before it went live..

Who here thinks you can balance a game by changing as many things as you can think of at the same time?

JWillCHS

maboleth wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Rohaus wrote: »

It is already difficult for 1vX these days with the Zerg trains... ZOS just keeps nerfing to the point where the game will eventually just be Zerg to kill or GTFO.

You know what? That's what they always wanted; alliance versus alliance; army versus army.
Nobody was ever meant to solo or small group in pvp until dueling was added and then Battlegrounds.

Great so, then, why is the server melting down when "alliance versus alliance" fights occur? If that's how Cyrodiil is meant to be played.

And oh, while I do get what you are trying to say, the trouble is, the zergs are usually mindless and you get bored doing them or fighting them very fast and very quickly.
So small grouping in PVP should be also possible and encouraged, even by some small campaigns that are currently dead or abused by clans for easy wins.

What you're looking for is true open world PvP, not Alliance Wars. And ESO doesn't have that.

Vesper_BR

I'm still really Impressed how Stam sorcs, NBS, templars and Wardens are so far away from Stam dks in pvp performance...
If Zos don't like dks pls let me switch my class... I want to be a sorc so bad...