Ban addons in PVP

Feanor · October 2017

@Minno

I disagree. As a player I should have control over the aesthetics of the game. There have been studies done about the impact of the size, shape and color of chess sets on the player performance. Russian psychologist Blumenfeld found in the 1920s that the performance was considerably worse when the sets didn’t have the „right“ color or were otherwise unpleasant.

That’s s seems to suggest that player performance is better if you play in an environment where you can clearly discern things and that is aesthetically pleasing on top. At least I know I do. I can’t bear the base game UI.

Publius_Scipio · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

Such is the reality of online gaming. Shady players always out there. Shady professional athletes. Shady business men and women. Unscrupulous doctors, lawyers, accountants, contractors, etc etc etc etc etc.

In ESO I believe most "bans" are only really temporary suspensions (something like three days). Any true permanent ban in ESO is easily circumvented by purchasing the game again and creating a new account. There really no are serious consequences, even if you are in the camp that there are "serious" consequences in a video game to begin with.

Minno · October 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@Minno

I disagree. As a player I should have control over the aesthetics of the game. There have been studies done about the impact of the size, shape and color of chess sets on the player performance. Russian psychologist Blumenfeld found in the 1920s that the performance was considerably worse when the sets didn’t have the „right“ color or were otherwise unpleasant.

That’s s seems to suggest that player performance is better if you play in an environment where you can clearly discern things and that is aesthetically pleasing on top. At least I know I do. I can’t bear the base game UI.

You are describing the importance of light and color on the mood of the user and their performance.

We have a similar study for lighting design where "cooler color" of light helps people be more alert in working environments and"warmer" light helps people relax. But even we have to adhere to set guidlines or standards for how we specify lighting and what those levels mean for the average user. For example, warmer color light fixtures are generally less efficient than colder color light fixtures. So if a client wants warm light everywhere, because they love it and it would increase their output at work, it might take more fixtures to maintain the same lighting levels as fixtures with colder color temperatures which will cost them more money. And then while they might want their preference to be selected, I still have professional obligations to also design spaces I know will work for a variety of users. And it must be a fair design for both young users with great eye sight and older people whose eyes are generally terrible. Averages and strict standards are used for a reason, to promote fair design for everyone and not a select few.

Cyro wants to work in the same way. What works for you cannot govern what works for another. So if Miat's is giving warnings from enemies in stealth, the user experience for the player that doesn't run the add-on is different to the point they cannot use the same environment equally and fairly. They now have to install the add-on in order to increase their experience and be able to play. Is this a fair and competitive environment for the average user?

Same goes for buff timers. The game was intended for animations and sounds to dictate your reactions for everyone. But players can use a buff addon that collects and shows how long you or the enemy have important buffs/debuffs. It makes it easily accessible which places an unfair advantage to those that are more tech savvy than those that aren't.

While those are specific examples, consider this. What happens when we start to talk about changing aspects of the game when influenced by daily gameplay using addon's? For example the recent change to clever alchemist, addon's gave PC users a way to exploit itsbuff system to give them an advantage in stealth. While this was harder for console players to recreate, it was easier on PCs due to addon's that could let you swap gear using a macro. If addon's weres disabled, the expolit would have remained but generally unused due to how annoying it would have been to reslot 5pc of gear after hitting the potion and console players could still enjoy the old clever alchemist proc.

See where I'm going with this?

deepseamk20b14_ESO · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

Maikon · October 2017

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

SodanTok · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

You dont meet people spamming meteors every day or every week, neither every month. Some havent met any in their life time, some for at least a year... so who would create these threads?

Maikon · October 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

You dont meet people spamming meteors every day or every week, neither every month. Some havent met any in their life time, some for at least a year... so who would create these threads?

Every day? No

Everyone week? Yes

It's either meteor spam, god mode, someone flying, walking through walls, or my favorite, getting hit with a 50k heavy atk in non-cp. Did I see it coming with miat's? yes, but sure as hell didn't save me.

Cheat engine is being used far more then you think.

Lieblingsjunge · October 2017

Feanor wrote: »

I disagree. As a player I should have control over the aesthetics of the game. There have been studies done about the impact of the size, shape and color of chess sets on the player performance. Russian psychologist Blumenfeld found in the 1920s that the performance was considerably worse when the sets didn’t have the „right“ color or were otherwise unpleasant.

That’s s seems to suggest that player performance is better if you play in an environment where you can clearly discern things and that is aesthetically pleasing on top. At least I know I do. I can’t bear the base game UI.

I have to second this. The base UI is horrific to play with. The vertical bars are impossible for me to work with - I need that concrete frame. I don't want my HP/Mag/Stam above my skill bars - that's where I want my bufftrackers. Not that I'm using any significant buffs anyway, but it's nice to know how many seconds your Wall of Elements got left. And if I would've had that even further above(if I had standard bars) - it would cloud my entire screen.(Yes, I do also play with ultimate-tracker add-on, compass, minimap and I plan on installing a raid formation-addon soon).

Also lorebooks & skyshard add-on helps. And "Lorebook/Skyshard addon, It doesn't exist on console" => Don't come here and tell me that any console player can't google "Skyshards Morrowind" and get the exact location of them. THere's also maps of the Lorebooks. Sure, they're not in the game the same way - but if you have a mobile phone(Whihc I assume most people do) you can easily look up a map on your mobile while gathering them.

Edit: Rather have Zenimax adjust their API. A ban of add-ons wouldv'e had to be incorporated into the game-rules *BEFORE* game was launched. It's like cross-faction BGs. You can't go back on letting AD/EP/DC do BGs together - because it was allowed from the start.

SodanTok · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

You dont meet people spamming meteors every day or every week, neither every month. Some havent met any in their life time, some for at least a year... so who would create these threads?

Every day? No

Everyone week? Yes

It's either meteor spam, god mode, someone flying, walking through walls, or my favorite, getting hit with a 50k heavy atk in non-cp. Did I see it coming with miat's? yes, but sure as hell didn't save me.

Cheat engine is being used far more then you think.

Every week? Suuuuuuure.

Keep believing those are always cheats

But who knows, maybe NA is full of cheaters

Minno · October 2017

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

I disagree. As a player I should have control over the aesthetics of the game. There have been studies done about the impact of the size, shape and color of chess sets on the player performance. Russian psychologist Blumenfeld found in the 1920s that the performance was considerably worse when the sets didn’t have the „right“ color or were otherwise unpleasant.

That’s s seems to suggest that player performance is better if you play in an environment where you can clearly discern things and that is aesthetically pleasing on top. At least I know I do. I can’t bear the base game UI.

I have to second this. The base UI is horrific to play with. The vertical bars are impossible for me to work with - I need that concrete frame. I don't want my HP/Mag/Stam above my skill bars - that's where I want my bufftrackers. Not that I'm using any significant buffs anyway, but it's nice to know how many seconds your Wall of Elements got left. And if I would've had that even further above(if I had standard bars) - it would cloud my entire screen.(Yes, I do also play with ultimate-tracker add-on, compass, minimap and I plan on installing a raid formation-addon soon).

Also lorebooks & skyshard add-on helps. And "Lorebook/Skyshard addon, It doesn't exist on console" => Don't come here and tell me that any console player can't google "Skyshards Morrowind" and get the exact location of them. THere's also maps of the Lorebooks. Sure, they're not in the game the same way - but if you have a mobile phone(Whihc I assume most people do) you can easily look up a map on your mobile while gathering them.

Edit: Rather have Zenimax adjust their API. A ban of add-ons wouldv'e had to be incorporated into the game-rules *BEFORE* game was launched. It's like cross-faction BGs. You can't go back on letting AD/EP/DC do BGs together - because it was allowed from the start.

Lorebook/skyshards would be removed too. Those addons decrease time spent in the game and increase game content consumption. Less players would burn through all the content faster because they could spent their time reading the clues and trying to find the prize.

rimmidimdim · October 2017

Double AP week event, no add ons in PvP zones. Try it I say. We all might not mind it, who knows. Could it be possible that there could be a prefomance increase?

deepseamk20b14_ESO · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

PathwayM · October 2017

I don't understand all the people that complain about the add-ons that alert you to things... Good players don't need them... Just outplay the ones that use them... This seems like a l2p issue to me...

Personally I never saw the need for those add-ons anyway... The in game audio queues are good enough...

Xsorus · October 2017

Nothing is wrong with addons its when Addon specifically have an effect on the balance on one part of the game.

Maikon · October 2017

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned because "you don't like it". That's a double standard.

DDuke · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

Maikon · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

Miat's doesn't do anything that isan't already allowed by the available API. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a cheat.

As long as you call it a "cheat engine", your opinions, thoughts, posts in general is of no relevance.

DDuke · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

As long as you call it a "cheat engine", your opinions, thoughts, posts in general is of no relevance.

Well, unlike yours my posts actually contain facts & rational thought - so I'd say they're quite relevant in comparison

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll eventually learn to play without having to cheat after they've fixed that bs - or maybe you'll just keep complaining about animation canceling & "macros" lul

Maikon · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

Miat's doesn't do anything that isan't already allowed by the available API. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a c
As long as you call it a "cheat engine", your opinions, thoughts, posts in general is of no relevance.

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

As long as you call it a "cheat engine", your opinions, thoughts, posts in general is of no relevance.

Well, unlike yours my posts actually contain facts & rational thought - so I'd say they're quite relevant in comparison

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll eventually learn to play without having to cheat after they've fixed that bs.

Even if they do change it, most of those changes won't affect the other "cheat engine lite" add-ons out there just like his.

Minno · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

Wait a second, the end if that thread mentions zos hadn't inplimented the chances yet as of February but next major patch cycle. Was Feb homestead or horns of the reach? I can't remember lol.

DDuke · October 2017

Minno wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

Wait a second, the end if that thread mentions zos hadn't inplimented the chances yet as of February but next major patch cycle. Was Feb homestead or horns of the reach? I can't remember lol.

Homestead, last patch was HotR.

They sure take their time fixing exploits... it's like sharpened maces all over again.

Minno · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned. That's a double standard.

Um, no they didn't.

This is the last official statement on what their intent was for PvP before rolling out the "fixes":

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg:
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

Obviously their fix failed, as there are still cheaters around.

Also, Cheat Engine Lite isn't a "game mechanic" like animation canceling, it's a 3rd party plugin.

Wait a second, the end if that thread mentions zos hadn't inplimented the chances yet as of February but next major patch cycle. Was Feb homestead or horns of the reach? I can't remember lol.

Homestead, last patch was HotR.

They sure take their time fixing exploits... it's like sharpened maces all over again.

They probably didn't get the content in till this patch. Would be interesting to see on live based on what that thread mentioned they wanted to fix. Completely not what zos originally stated got fixed, unless I read that too quickly.

MehrunesFlagon · October 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

Ban addons in PVP.

They are clearly causing issues with how your sets are supposed to work. They are giving unfair advantages to people they are using them. With big thier flashing "dodge now" and "break free" warnings as well as being able to see exactly the hp of the enemies they are targeting quickly and easily.

Ban addons in PVP and level the playing field.

what is wrong with kill counter?

Dredlord · October 2017

Dorrino wrote: »

Dredlord wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?

Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.

You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)

Xsorus wrote: »

You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.

Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.

My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.

Xsorus wrote: »

Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.

Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.

The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.

In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.

This way the addon served its purpose.

Xsorus wrote: »

Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.

You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.

I run it, because i find it convenient.

Xsorus wrote: »

In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?

But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.

Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?

You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.

Sad just sad.....

It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.

edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.

You assumed that i lacked awareness.

Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?

I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.

It is disabled during duels.

You have previously eluded to your personal version not being disabled for dueling...

Previously i asked you would you have the lack of morals to keep it for yourself only.

I don't.

I think you got an insightful because you describe it as a lack of morals.

Do you remember my answer? And what was it?

deepseamk20b14_ESO · October 2017

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.

Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.

It doesn’t change what I’m saying though. If there is an add on called chicken feet and it’s the same thing as miats, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be banned because it has a different name.

I used miats as an example because it’s been brought up 10000000000000000000000 times here and in other posts.

I still stand by saying that “removing all add ons” is rediculous. Remove add ons that give an actual advantage, that’s fine. Call them whatever the hell you want. Private add on, Miats, dickbeard smugglers club, Rosie o’donnels Excellent ability tracker, or futuramas predictable attack app.

But why ban something like skyshard hunter, or a potion maker add on, or kill counter, or one of the other 100 quality of life type add ons that don’t give you an I win button? If they are affecting performance, that’s a different issue entirely.

If you think miat's is an "I win" button add-on, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

If you wanna talk about affecting performance, then I can say animation cancelation is much more of an "I Win" button then miat's, same with macro slicing.

And where's all the threads about cheat engine? You ever fight someone with god mode? Or get hit with meteor spam? That's the true definition of an "I win" button. But I don't see a 1000 threads about that.

Idk what servers you play on but I haven’t seen meteor spam since last year when the cheat engine finally became known to everyone instead of just something that was suspected.

I also say I win button facetiously. I don’t think it’s really an I win button, as I’ve previously stated on this thread.

Animation canceling is complained about. Literally everyday.

Animation canceling takes practice and skill and is an accepted game mechanic by ZoS, whether or not it’s because they were too lazy to fix it matters not as it is here to stay. If you aren’t capable of doing it because of lack of skill or some physical injury, (this was an actual complaint I read on a post) sucks to be them. You don’t see vets who lost a leg to an IED ask for race coordinators to reduce the distance everyone has to run just to cater to them.

An “I win” button is equivalent to something that a person can do that requires zero practice or skill. Though i don’t consider miats and the like an I win button I’m intelligent enough to comprehend why some people see it that way (not saying you aren’t intelligent, I’m generalizing).

The only people hating on animation canceling are those who can’t do it well. No one in their right mind would complain about it if they could do it, so please, don’t follow up with a reply saying “well, I’m great at animation cancel and it’s unfair so it should be removed”. That’s like saying “man, all these Indians have are bows and arrows, we should throw out our guns that we learned to make through trial and error and blood shed”

People complain about “god mode” everyday as well so don’t pretend they don’t. Search “unkillable” or anything of the like. There is constant crying about it.

IF people are still using cheat engine It’s rare and not obvious enough to even make it that much of a threat. If I die I don’t throw a hissy fit and automatically blame it on cheat engine because let’s be honest, the majority of scrubs in PvP do just that. “I lost! He must be cheating!”.

I’m not saying this applies to you. I’m strictly going by the large amount of everyday crying about it on the forums.

Lastly, macroing.....to many good posts explaining it limitations and educating the masses about it. Please do your own research. Not going into it because it will derail the current conversation.

Yes, animation cancelation is an accepted game mechanic, and ZOS looked at and made changes to the API when miat's came out, and they've accepted that it doesn't break any of their rules or mechanics of how it currently works, yet you still try and get it banned because "you don't like it". That's a double standard.

When did I say I didn’t like animation canceling and when did I say I wanted it banned?

I said animation canceling takes skill. I said I do it. I said people who can’t do it complain because they can’t do it. Never said it shouldn’t be allowed.

I specifically said calling miats an I win button was said in sarcasm.

At what point did I ask for anything to be “banned”?

I said I understand how some people don’t like it, but never said I don’t like it. I have miats. It’s literally installed and in use.

If they did get it removed I also wouldn’t care.

What are you even talking about? Is English not your first language? I mean, I get there are lots of different people who play this game, so I understand. I’m not trying to talk **** if English isn’t your first language. I’ll try to put it into simpler terms next time with less sarcasm?

Maikon · October 2017

.

Ace_SiN · October 2017

Miats addon and any private ones like it are the only issues, so how about we stick to the real problem? Nobody is complaining about Skyshards or Lost Treasure. Miats doesn't just kill ganking. It kills the need for awareness to be successful in PvP. That's a key component in EVERY other PvP game and it would be considered a bannable offense in any other game. Sadly, this addon has effectively become the new competitive standard. Not using it puts you at a clear disadvantage in anything bigger than 1v1. The amount of people that dodge roll my skills, as their backs are turned, is very frustrating(and no I'm not a 1 shot ganker). However, ZOS has allowed it so I can't blame the player for choosing to not play at a disadvantage.

If ZOS cared about promoting a healthy PvP environment they would limit their API and not allow a cheat to be the standard of ESO PvP.

rustic_potato · October 2017

ZOS doesn't really care about the end game on both PVE and PVP side. Why should they it would be less than 5% of their total population and as long as they keep the remaining 95% happy and satisfied their coffers are going to be full.

PVPers have been asking for QOL, exploit and hack fixes for years and still haven't got anything.
The PVE raiding community is on the verge of dying after the total fiasco of Morrowind.

ZOS doesn't care and sooner the players realize this the better their experience in the game will be.

Lylith · October 2017

Ban addons in PVP

no lui, votan's minimap, or wykyyd bar?

yeah, *** that.

Berenhir · October 2017

People that don't use add-ons should be banned from PvP. They don't know when which keep is attacked, they tend to forget to restock sieges, they cannot locate dead people for fast rezzes and are unable to follow the crown when they cannot see it on their screen.

Cyrodiil would be a better place then.