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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – October 13
• NA megaservers for maintenance – October 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – October 15, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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Ban addons in PVP
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Feanor
Is this your first RPG? Pretty much every (MMO)RPG has "rogue" and "assassin" type characters that heavily draw on stealth & being as "unfair" as possible to your opponent when engaging from stealth. This is generally balanced by the squishiness of these characters, which is also true in ESO.
It's not "cowardice" (something that a close-minded person could attribute to streaking sorcerers as well
) or "low skill" ("ganking" successfully actually takes more skill than you'd think), but rather just a different playstyle.
Because not everyone enjoys playing that streaking sorcerer or heavy armor wearing "warrior".
ESO's stealth is actually quite tame compared to other MMOs where you can stunlock people, have special skills when in stealth etc.
*Sigh*. I don't think we will ever agree on the point of stealth being well done in this game and good for it. It's my first MMORPG, true. I just don't see what impact that should have on my perception. I simply dislike starting a fight at a disadvantage that is substantial.
Take one of the most glaring examples, a horse gank. Engaging a player on his horse leads to a stun for 3 seconds that you can't even break. All you can do is wait and watch your character to get up again and regain control - if you're not dead by then. It's a particularly stupid mechanic. Granted, it only happens when the stamina of your horse doesn't suffice to absorb the hit. Still ZOS seems to agree it's a bit over the top and they'll reduce the stun to 2 seconds, the dev comments express allowing more counterplay as the reason for this.
And yes, I know. Especially as Sorc I can slot Defensive Rune. Other classes don't have that luxury and just have to cope by watching their horse's stamina.
What I don't get is - why on Nirn a player engaging from stealth needs even more advantages on top of already having the initiative in the fight and in most cases a hefty lead when you compare the Health bars 1 sec into the fight. Why? Because he's squishy? So am I with my 6k Empowered Ward. And the truth is that squishiness is almost a non-factor on a good NB who knows to use the excellent toolkit to full potential.
Of course you can just say "it's part of the game", deal with it or play something else. That's an argument that makes all discussion irrelevant. A lot of things are "part of the game" which ultimately shouldn't be for the better of the game.
My dislike for stealth as currently implemented is not some strange outlier. People just don't like going 100-0 in 2 seconds. As ZOS does nothing about it really people have found two ways to counter that "playstyle": Zerging up or tanking up. Which again leads to the complaint of the gankers that bow is too weak and they can't kill anybody (which lead to gankers acting in groups now more often too). And on...and on...
There are a lot of people who for some reason enjoy fighting an opponent who in the best of cases doesn't fight back. If that's your cup of coffee, so be it. We'll just leave it a respectful disagree then.
Edit: Just read @Zer0oo posting as we cross posted. I second this.Edited by Feanor on October 11, 2017 6:48AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Feanor
Is this your first RPG? Pretty much every (MMO)RPG has "rogue" and "assassin" type characters that heavily draw on stealth & being as "unfair" as possible to your opponent when engaging from stealth. This is generally balanced by the squishiness of these characters, which is also true in ESO.
It's not "cowardice" (something that a close-minded person could attribute to streaking sorcerers as well ) or "low skill" ("ganking" successfully actually takes more skill than you'd think), but rather just a different playstyle.
Because not everyone enjoys playing that streaking sorcerer or heavy armor wearing "warrior".
ESO's stealth is actually quite tame compared to other MMOs where you can stunlock people, have special skills when in stealth etc.
*Sigh*. I don't think we will ever agree on the point of stealth being well done in this game and good for it. It's my first MMORPG, true. I just don't see what impact that should have on my perception. I simply dislike starting a fight at a disadvantage that is substantial.
It should have a huge impact on your perception. How rogues/assassins are done in other games alters the context & creates player expectations. It's about tradition.
Here's what I think when I hear "stealth" in MMOs: https://youtu.be/oWNt_8xcOZw
And probably the game that does it best currently: https://youtu.be/KbcHab0z9JY
But you're wrong, I don't disagree with you about stealth not being done well in this game - I think they haven't done enough with it. I think there should be more skills that interact with it, I think there should be an indication where a stealther is moving (i.e. visual cues) - lots of things.
I just disagree that coming up with 3rd party cheats is the way to fix things, especially when said cheats don't even affect the strong stealth builds (you don't get a cast timer for DW Heavy Attack from stealth), but only make the weaker ones even worse.Edited by DDuke on October 11, 2017 10:41AM4 -
rustic_potato✭✭✭✭✭I like how people think that implementing these changes is easy. Honestly do you folks think that ZOS would spend so much time rewriting the base game code so that a few PVPers are happy? If you disable addons completely then they would lose a significant part of the PVE population which keeps the game alive..
I would rather ZOS spend time and money on fixing broken game mechanics..I play how I want to.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭rustic_potato wrote: »I like how people think that implementing these changes is easy. Honestly do you folks think that ZOS would spend so much time rewriting the base game code so that a few PVPers are happy? If you disable addons completely then they would lose a significant part of the PVE population which keeps the game alive..
I would rather ZOS spend time and money on fixing broken game mechanics..
By that logic, why fix anything? Nobody said it's easy - but it's got to be done if they don't want their PvP to die off entirely and it's been 6 months since they said they'd fix it, so it's about time that happens.
Also, if you read the thread title it says "Ban addons in PVP", not "Ban addons period". And I think that's preferable to having these kinds of Cheat Engine Lites around, but ofc it's better if they just get rid of the few bad apples that exploit the API and break game mechanics (i.e. cast time abilities/stealth) in PvPEdited by DDuke on October 11, 2017 6:30PM1 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭rustic_potato wrote: »I like how people think that implementing these changes is easy. Honestly do you folks think that ZOS would spend so much time rewriting the base game code so that a few PVPers are happy? If you disable addons completely then they would lose a significant part of the PVE population which keeps the game alive..
I would rather ZOS spend time and money on fixing broken game mechanics..
By that logic, why fix anything? Nobody said it's easy - but it's got to be done if they don't want their PvP to die off entirely and it's been 6 months since they said they'd fix it, so it's about time that happens.
Also, if you read the thread title it says "Ban addons in PVP", not "Ban addons period". And I think that's preferable to having these kinds of Cheat Engine Lites around, but ofc it's better if they just get rid of the few bad apples that exploit the API and break game mechanics (i.e. cast time abilities/stealth) in PvP
You keep calling it a cheat engine, which it is not, or even close to ever being. Since you're on the Euro Megaserver, no one should actually take you seriously about anything you say.Edited by Maikon on October 11, 2017 7:16PM1 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos3 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?Edited by Dorrino on October 11, 2017 9:36PM0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Level the playing field? I mean....it’s already level as add ones are not exclusive to a select few. You literally have access to hundreds. Go download minion and “level the playing field”.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!0 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
It is disabled during duels.
As to the point of the duels, i’m testing this approach on people who prefer to assume inferiority of their ‘opponents’ in discussions. Since they seems to need an irrational proof of validity of opponents arguments so far being outplayed in duels seem to solve that problem.
I’m not sure why it’s necessary to do something like this to be able to have a rational discussion, but to each their own.
@dorrino PC NA1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭*Sigh*. I don't think we will ever agree on the point of stealth being well done in this game and good for it. It's my first MMORPG, true. I just don't see what impact that should have on my perception. I simply dislike starting a fight at a disadvantage that is substantial.
Take one of the most glaring examples, a horse gank. Engaging a player on his horse leads to a stun for 3 seconds that you can't even break. All you can do is wait and watch your character to get up again and regain control - if you're not dead by then. It's a particularly stupid mechanic. Granted, it only happens when the stamina of your horse doesn't suffice to absorb the hit. Still ZOS seems to agree it's a bit over the top and they'll reduce the stun to 2 seconds, the dev comments express allowing more counterplay as the reason for this.
The horse gank scenario is perfect for illustrating the value of situational awareness. If one is ganked on their 60/60 speed/stam horse, they probably don't have very much. There are cues to avoid the vast majority of attacks while mounted and a well-managed horse should be able to survive a few hits, giving the rider a lot of time to dismount and defend. Travel is boring and completely useless at a gameplay level if there is no risk.
The counterplay for gankers is preparation and anticipation. Where are gankers likely to attack? What plan do you have to overcome that obstacle? Do you take a different route, ride with others, or are you confident you can respond quickly enough to survive and recover? Dealing with that challenge is gameplay.
AvA isn't about "fair fights." No game with strategic elements truly is, but this is especially true of open world AvA. A key to a successful strategy or tactic is catching your opponent at a disadvantage. If you frequently find yourself in unfair scenarios you do not choose, you are being outplayed; possibly, you are outplaying yourself.
Edited by zyk on October 12, 2017 1:13AM2 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
It is disabled during duels.
You have previously eluded to your personal version not being disabled for dueling...2 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
It is disabled during duels.
You have previously eluded to your personal version not being disabled for dueling...
Previously i asked you would you have the lack of morals to keep it for yourself only.
I don't.
1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
It is disabled during duels.
As to the point of the duels, i’m testing this approach on people who prefer to assume inferiority of their ‘opponents’ in discussions. Since they seems to need an irrational proof of validity of opponents arguments so far being outplayed in duels seem to solve that problem.
I’m not sure why it’s necessary to do something like this to be able to have a rational discussion, but to each their own.
@dorrino PC NA
So you’re arguing that duels are a means to determine if you have situational awareness to not get hit by gankers without your addon?
I would also prefer if you disable the addon completely during any duel. Since it’s disabled anyway this shouldn’t be an issue am I right? Just a simple /reload
Ps I know you because I’ve fought your nightblade multiple times in cyrodiil. Usually I get bored as you’re usually sitting in a tower using shades to teleport back upstairs when you get low (and I’m not faulting you for that... that is how you should play a nightblade). I think last time I ran into you on your nb it lasted all but 5 mins before I was like screw this im going to do something else.Edited by Xsorus on October 12, 2017 3:02AMhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭This would actually be ok
Banning Miat and miatlike addons is fine also.Edited by Witar on October 12, 2017 3:16AMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.6 -
Dorrino✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
It is disabled during duels.
As to the point of the duels, i’m testing this approach on people who prefer to assume inferiority of their ‘opponents’ in discussions. Since they seems to need an irrational proof of validity of opponents arguments so far being outplayed in duels seem to solve that problem.
I’m not sure why it’s necessary to do something like this to be able to have a rational discussion, but to each their own.
@dorrino PC NA
So you’re arguing that duels are a means to determine if you have situational awareness to not get hit by gankers without your addon?
I would also prefer if you disable the addon completely during any duel. Since it’s disabled anyway this shouldn’t be an issue am I right? Just a simple /reload
Ps I know you because I’ve fought your nightblade multiple times in cyrodiil. Usually I get bored as you’re usually sitting in a tower using shades to teleport back upstairs when you get low (and I’m not faulting you for that... that is how you should play a nightblade). I think last time I ran into you on your nb it lasted all but 5 mins before I was like screw this im going to do something else.
So then it shouldn't be a problem to you to lose 5/5 and apologize afterwards?
And 'this is not how you should play as a nightblade' this is 'how you play against 10 people'.Edited by Dorrino on October 12, 2017 5:58AM0 -
NiclasFridholm✭✭✭✭Id say ban addons in trials and PvP. Would be nice if people would use their eyes instead of getting everything served. Tobias Funke - Magplar since forever2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where is the difference between an addon message and the raid lead calling out stuff? I’ve been doing vSO HM with and without Raidificator - it was actually easier when the raid lead just called out the phases and the world shaper.
But of course there are always the people who find something “right” only if it’s done with the base game UI, however ugly that might be. To me addons are mostly a visual convenience, and frankly, if ZOS would have spent the time and money in coding a better UI, we’d not have that discussion.
As for PvP the decision to base things on subtle visual and audio cues is so questionable. If the visual doesn’t get rendered in time or at all or the audio cue doesn’t play you’re generally screwed (see complaints about lag). But hey, at least it’s the pure game as intended by the developers then. If that’s fun for you, go for it. Doesn’t mean it’s necessary to cut off convenience and aesthetics for others who don’t find it as pleasing.
This discussion gets more ridiculous with every post. What’s next? Ban gaming mouses and keyboards because they give an advantage?Edited by Feanor on October 12, 2017 6:57AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Where is the difference between an addon message and the raid lead calling out stuff?
The latter requires teamwork & coordination while the former doesn't?
Not that I have a problem with RaidNotifier (though I can symphatize with people who do), but let's not obfuscate the facts.But of course there are always the people who find something “right” only if it’s done with the base game UI, however ugly that might be. To me addons are mostly a visual convenience, and frankly, if ZOS would have spent the time and money in coding a better UI, we’d not have that discussion.
As for PvP the decision to base things on subtle visual and audio cues is so questionable. If the visual doesn’t get rendered in time or at all or the audio cue doesn’t play you’re generally screwed (see complaints about lag). But hey, at least it’s the pure game as intended by the developers then. If that’s fun for you, go for it. Doesn’t mean it’s necessary to cut off convenience and aesthetics for others who don’t find it as pleasing.
There's no visual/audio cue for cast timers of opponents you can't see - what certain "addon" does is not just "convenience and aesthetics".This discussion gets more ridiculous with every post. What’s next? Ban gaming mouses and keyboards because they give an advantage?
Straw man.Edited by DDuke on October 12, 2017 7:20AM1 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Where is the difference between an addon message and the raid lead calling out stuff? I’ve been doing vSO HM with and without Raidificator - it was actually easier when the raid lead just called out the phases and the world shaper.
But of course there are always the people who find something “right” only if it’s done with the base game UI, however ugly that might be. To me addons are mostly a visual convenience, and frankly, if ZOS would have spent the time and money in coding a better UI, we’d not have that discussion.
As for PvP the decision to base things on subtle visual and audio cues is so questionable. If the visual doesn’t get rendered in time or at all or the audio cue doesn’t play you’re generally screwed (see complaints about lag). But hey, at least it’s the pure game as intended by the developers then. If that’s fun for you, go for it. Doesn’t mean it’s necessary to cut off convenience and aesthetics for others who don’t find it as pleasing.
This discussion gets more ridiculous with every post. What’s next? Ban gaming mouses and keyboards because they give an advantage?
Yes . And adderall drug tests before logging in . A lot of doping in gaming these days .2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@DDuke
I knew this was coming. Yet @NiclasFridholm was speaking of addons in PvE and PvP generally. We know by now that you want the attack notifications gone. Teamwork and coordination? Lol. It’s just reacting to a raid lead command and not different to reacting to a message in your screen. But I get it, addons are devil’s work. All of them.
@Rohamad_Ali
Most MLB players have an official exemption for Adderall use...Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also did you really just try and use bad latency as a reason you came up with this addon?
Obviously this was one of the use cases, because reacting to high damage attacks from stealth with 1-2 sec lag skews the advantage to the attacker even more that the game already provided at that time.
You don't need to have bad latency to experience that. You just need to play in a locked campaign:)You came up with this addon because you were getting killed by other stealthers.
Originally stealth one shots or semi one shots were the reason why i got curious what can be done about them.
My thought was 'it'd be awesome if zos made players to lose stealth on the start of a channel instead of on a successful hit'. And i realized that the game already tells everybody when a channel starts. Thus i didn't need to nag ZOS to change anything. They already 'changed it'.Lethal arrow was I guess to difficult to dodge without an indicator so this what you went with.
Snipes were never a problem, because there's a flight time on snipes. I added snipes for consistency, along with anything else that could be added.
The problem was melee heavy attack into the burst.
In the result ZOS got rid of those in the notifications and, roughly at the same time, they fixed extra damage from stealth.
This way the addon served its purpose.Now we all have to run it because one player couldn’t afford headphones *grin*.
You have to run it, because it's hard for you to play otherwise.
I run it, because i find it convenient.In fact I have an offer for you mate, I’ll personally uninstall your addon and never run it again if you personally do the same. I won’t even demand proof I’ll take your word at it. What you say?
But it's you who have some problems with the addon. This offer assumes that i share your attitude towards the addon. On the contrary i enjoy it and think it makes pvp experience richer and more skill based than otherwise.
Why would i want to dumb down my gameplay experience if some player is confused about the addon?
You tell me I need the addon, then proceed to say in the very next paragraph when I offer not to run if you do the same that it enhances your gameplay *grin*.
Sad just sad.....
It's you said that you need it. I just confirmed that.
edit. Oops, looks like i misread you to your advantage.
You assumed that i lacked awareness.
Then as it's already a good tradition - 5 duels and after you lose all 5 you come back here and apologize for assuming lack of skill about people you don't know?
I’ll be happy to duel you if you really want; I’m not sure how that will change your lack of situational awareness by relying on an addon? You going to disable your addon during the fights? If not my statement still stands.
It is disabled during duels.
As to the point of the duels, i’m testing this approach on people who prefer to assume inferiority of their ‘opponents’ in discussions. Since they seems to need an irrational proof of validity of opponents arguments so far being outplayed in duels seem to solve that problem.
I’m not sure why it’s necessary to do something like this to be able to have a rational discussion, but to each their own.
@dorrino PC NA
So you’re arguing that duels are a means to determine if you have situational awareness to not get hit by gankers without your addon?
I would also prefer if you disable the addon completely during any duel. Since it’s disabled anyway this shouldn’t be an issue am I right? Just a simple /reload
Ps I know you because I’ve fought your nightblade multiple times in cyrodiil. Usually I get bored as you’re usually sitting in a tower using shades to teleport back upstairs when you get low (and I’m not faulting you for that... that is how you should play a nightblade). I think last time I ran into you on your nb it lasted all but 5 mins before I was like screw this im going to do something else.
So then it shouldn't be a problem to you to lose 5/5 and apologize afterwards?
And 'this is not how you should play as a nightblade' this is 'how you play against 10 people'.
Let’s make this interesting; if I win more then I lose you have to discontinue development of Miats and never run it again. If you win more then lose I’ll apologize
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos2 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should ban addon's in PvP but for the reason that they can control the users experience and performance better.
Buff trackers, while very useful, give a great amount of information. You can find these buffs in game, but some of the animations are clunky or hard to find. But because of 4 years of amazing buff tracker addon's, they haven't spent time developing or gathering the right feedback for develop a better animation system, one that promotes skillful play. So instead they placed their own native buff tracker, which is hard to read at times. If addon buff trackers were removed, they can compile information from all players using the same experience and offer a better buff tracker experience with a system that could work with better performance in mind since they know how their engine works.
Some add-ons cause performance issues, and they have to consistently remind players to update out of date add-ons. Not to mention when some players create threads about Performance we have to ask them"do you have MM/skyshards/add-ons on?". Despite access to API information, should players start pulling from this data for heavy fights, if we don't know the strain it puts on the servers/personal computers? It probably doesn't impact it too much, but once again, similar user experiences means ZoS can spend less time finding the source of problems when they arise.
For example, the popular addon that lists prices for items across all guild stores (can't remember the name) asks you for permission to use your computer to send/receive information. Wouldn't this impact connections to your ISP to the point it might look like the game lags? If they locked this addon in cyro, they will have controlled the user experience in a way where all player feedback can pinpoint the source of problems faster and more reliably that what we do now.
That's why I started to remove addon's in cyro. Yes even buff trackers. Anything I record or suggest in feedback, I want zos to see that I am using the vanilla client as much as possible. Sadly I am one of a few that think this way, and in some cases am at a disadvantage versus other players using more robust addon's to gather information their eyes/ears would have had to collect that information. I have to count their debuffs or try to remember which icon guess with which ability with zos' native tracker but they can see it in their screen with a timer with bold letters.
Flatten the access to data = more control for the competitive aspect of ESO. This goes for PvE as well.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Bro if you ban addons in PVP how will PC players know when to block/dodge/do anything?
hahahahahahaha2 -
Maikon✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »The only add on that gives an advantage is miats. If you think any of the others do you need to look at yourself and your own abilities. The only other add on I can even consider a slight advantage would be buff bars maybe? As it makes it easy to know when to rebuff? Idk, 99% of games have buff bars or timers and no one complains. But everyone can download the add on for this. Idk.
Sorry to tell you, but there are several other private add-ons out there that do the same thing as miat's, and some are even better.
2
