Ban addons in PVP

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

It's not being stupid. It's called rage.

Yeah, cheats make me rage.

You've found my cryptonite, well done.

Dorrino

But why would you want everybody to play less convinient game because of your personal struggles with pvp?:)

@DDuke

If you agreed to duel me as offered, by now you’d have accepted that you’re bad, apologized and, finally relaxed:)

But instead you’re throwing a temper tantrum. I feel for you.

DDuke

Dorrino wrote: »

But why would you want everybody to play less convinient game because of your personal struggles with pvp?:)

@DDuke

If you agreed to duel me as offered, by now you’d have accepted that you’re bad, apologized and, finally relaxed:)

But instead you’re throwing a temper tantrum. I feel for you.

Where's the LOL button when you need one.

Feel free to come to EU server after CheatEngine Lite is gone, I'll teach you how to stamblade without cheats


Done with this conversation btw, not interested in correcting stuff for 20 pages again & listening to how "awesome" you are.

yodased

Don't ban add-ons, just restrict them from interacting with the game world. Allow anyone to alter their u.i. whenever and however they want, but allowing add-ons to do things like swap gear or show hidden players or anything that interacts "physically needs to go.

This thread comes from the clever axch need, because people were using add-ons that swap gear instantly to proc c.a. out of combat, swap back into hundings,spriggans and then engaging.

It was a b.s. playstyle and gave a super advantage to people bit even wearing c.a. except for < 1 second before stealth burst.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

But why would you want everybody to play less convinient game because of your personal struggles with pvp?:)

@DDuke

If you agreed to duel me as offered, by now you’d have accepted that you’re bad, apologized and, finally relaxed:)

But instead you’re throwing a temper tantrum. I feel for you.

Where's the LOL button when you need one.

Feel free to come to EU server after CheatEngine Lite is gone, I'll teach you how to stamblade without cheats


Done with this conversation btw, not interested in correcting stuff for 20 pages again & listening to how "awesome" you are.

Does "Stamblade without cheats" also mean no Incap - SA - Execute?

DDuke

Feanor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

But why would you want everybody to play less convinient game because of your personal struggles with pvp?:)

@DDuke

If you agreed to duel me as offered, by now you’d have accepted that you’re bad, apologized and, finally relaxed:)

But instead you’re throwing a temper tantrum. I feel for you.

Where's the LOL button when you need one.

Feel free to come to EU server after CheatEngine Lite is gone, I'll teach you how to stamblade without cheats


Done with this conversation btw, not interested in correcting stuff for 20 pages again & listening to how "awesome" you are.

Does "Stamblade without cheats" also mean no Incap - SA - Execute?

My current build is DW/Bow (same as the past few years), I don't run execute as it's not necessary on a build with Selene & 5k weapon dmg.

The build I'd play next patch if opponents couldn't see my Snipes before they're even in the air would be Bow/Bow - no Incap, no SA & no Execute (and yes, it works based on PTS testing).

Dorrino

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

Anne_Firehawk

Skander wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

PROFIT!?!

^

^^

NyassaV

Just because we can't get rid of Miat's doesn't mean we get rid of them all

PocketAces13xb

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

but isn't the games design for them to be unaware? Instead you're allowing players a way to get around the way the game is meant for

DDuke

PocketAces13xb wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

but isn't the games design for them to be unaware? Instead you're allowing players a way to get around the way the game is meant for

Exactly, but you'll never convince someone like him of that. He thinks his addon is the way the game is meant to be played.


Not that it matters tho, the whole point is bs because his addon doesn't even affect the strongest stealth builds at all (melee ones) - it only f's up all ranged builds.

Dorrino

PocketAces13xb wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

but isn't the games design for them to be unaware? Instead you're allowing players a way to get around the way the game is meant for

We can only deduce 'the way the game was designed to do" from whatever is available in the game. This is our only source of information and inference.

The game UI API provides the info for my addon. Consequently this is the way the game is designed to work.

Alternatively we're stepping on a really slippery road of cherry-picking. As in for instance 'let's disregard UI functions when determining the "true" design of the game". I don't see this approach justifiable.

We might want to propose to redesign the game, so these API functions won't be available. But then we're talking about changing the design because we don't like it, instead of claiming these functions don't fit in the design.

Some people love this design, some hate.

I happen to be the one liking this design approach much more than alternatives based of unawareness. Because i find it more challenging and more fair at the same time.

But that's just me.

Ladislao

DDuke wrote: »

The build I'd play next patch if opponents couldn't see my Snipes before they're even in the air would be Bow/Bow - no Incap, no SA & no Execute (and yes, it works based on PTS testing).

In one of the last topics, you argued that archers are not viable at all and should be huge buffed/reworked. Now, suddenly, "it works". You progress right before my eyes, good job

DDuke

Ladislao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The build I'd play next patch if opponents couldn't see my Snipes before they're even in the air would be Bow/Bow - no Incap, no SA & no Execute (and yes, it works based on PTS testing).

In one of the last topics, you argued that archers are not viable at all and should be huge buffed/reworked. Now, suddenly, "it works". You progress right before my eyes, good job

They did get a pretty big buff PvP wise though with Asylum Bow :P
I'd say Scatter Shot still needs a range increase & atleast one of the passives needs to synergize with class skills so it's on par with DW/2H passives, but apart from that it's looking good as long as Miat's doesn't exist.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

Ladislao wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

The build I'd play next patch if opponents couldn't see my Snipes before they're even in the air would be Bow/Bow - no Incap, no SA & no Execute (and yes, it works based on PTS testing).

In one of the last topics, you argued that archers are not viable at all and should be huge buffed/reworked. Now, suddenly, "it works". You progress right before my eyes, good job

They did get a pretty big buff PvP wise though with Asylum Bow :P
I'd say Scatter Shot still needs a range increase & atleast one of the passives needs to synergize with class skills so it's on par with DW/2H passives, but apart from that it's looking good as long as Miat's doesn't exist.

Yeah I'm so looking forward to the pimped Poison Injections. At least the opponent isn't 41m away in that case.

disintegr8

Someone will always find a way around any bans or limitations, that is human nature. ZOS need to restrict what can be 'seen' by add-ons to make them less effective at helping players.

You can always switch to console.

Rohamad_Ali

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

OH common Miat ... Really ?

Ok , I will inform all the members of the U.S. Navy Seals , Force Recon , Rangers and any other special forces across the globe that they need to stop being skilless scrubs and inform their enemies before attacks . They're are obviously just no skill ganking scrubs irl and need to fight in the open to Git gud .

[Sarcastic Font/]

Dorrino

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

OH common Miat ... Really ?

Ok , I will inform all the members of the U.S. Navy Seals , Force Recon , Rangers and any other special forces across the globe that they need to stop being skilless scrubs and inform their enemies before attacks . They're are obviously just no skill ganking scrubs irl and need to fight in the open to Git gud .

[Sarcastic Font/]

That's the best comparison to eso pvp:D

Do we need to inform eso ppv players that they need to start with a year of boot camp and that ZOS owes them their salaries for the whole time they participated in pvp?:)

Additionally, should we consider other factions our enemies and try to make their gameplay experience as frustrating as possible?:)

Feanor

No need for that. Most times it's our own faction that makes gameplay as frustrating as possible.

Rohamad_Ali

Dorrino wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

OH common Miat ... Really ?

Ok , I will inform all the members of the U.S. Navy Seals , Force Recon , Rangers and any other special forces across the globe that they need to stop being skilless scrubs and inform their enemies before attacks . They're are obviously just no skill ganking scrubs irl and need to fight in the open to Git gud .

[Sarcastic Font/]

That's the best comparison to eso pvp:D

Do we need to inform eso ppv players that they need to start with a year of boot camp and that ZOS owes them their salaries for the whole time they participated in pvp?:)

Additionally, should we consider other factions our enemies and try to make their gameplay experience as frustrating as possible?:)

What are you a British soldier from 1776 ? Raising your firsts at those dishonorable new Americans that won't line up for a proper battle ? lol just

FluffyReachWitch

Back in 2016, we had a lengthy discussion of cheating and exploits. This discussion revolved partly around the use of gap-closers to accomplish things that were not at all intended to happen. Misuse of gap-closers was having disruptive effects in PvP.

The team pointed out at that time that just because something is possible doesn't mean you should do it. In fact, using what exists, to create unintended gameplay is considered an exploit. The team resolved the gap-closing issue by reworking gap-closers and altering the very landscape of Cyrodiil to prevent future misuse.

Their stance is the same on add-ons from what I've read. The API might enable something with all the stuff it provides, but if it disrupts normal intended gameplay, it's probably an exploit of the API.

Anyway, looks like Miat's is now being looked into. Link to a dev comment on the thread: So Miat's PVP addon can detect stealth players even when they are in stealth state?

Rohamad_Ali

On a final note Miat , you are a min/max player and design your builds to have the least amount of flaws . You play the meta for your class . Meta meaning Most . Efficient . Tactic . Available . The game comes with stealth which has what you call a unfair advantage which is meta , but some how build for the most efficiency still , but also gimping yourself to not use stealth over a moral issue . All while telling people your addon that removes some stealth attacks is fine and anyone that thinks differently just has a moral issue with what the API already provides . I like you as a person your train of thought in gaming goes right into a gorge sometimes .

Also I should get some form of a run on sentence award for this .

Feanor

Rejoice. When Miat's gets purged of the functionality that caused so much rage there will be only 99,000 other things left to complain about. The forum warriors are not in danger therefore that there might be a sudden shortage of QQ. Everyone can be totally happy that Cyrodiil is chest and exploit free then. Isn't that nice!

Arthg

Dorrino wrote: »

As always these discussions can be summarized in ‘people who lack skill to attack aware targets, cry for changes to make their targets unaware’:)

LOL. You sound like a crazy megalomaniac scientist. You're just a dedicated coder and player, and clearly being empowered by ZOS to completely disrupt an intended feature (stealth) and forcing the player base to download your work has made you lose it.
It's always the case, scientists never take a step back to look at the ethical consequences of their work. They'll build a new assault or nuclear weapon because they can and always think very high of themselves.

Your addon has corrupted the way PvP was intended to be played.
It's a fact.
You can't see it because you're proud of your work.
But it's the case, mate.

And it's entirely ZOS fault.

Feanor

@Arthg

It's so good we have @Dorrino. That way everyone focuses his addon and nobody has to think about the stuff that's really out there. You can rest quite nice on a calm (and blind) conscience.

SodanTok

Feanor wrote: »

Rejoice. When Miat's gets purged of the functionality that caused so much rage there will be only 99,000 other things left to complain about. The forum warriors are not in danger therefore that there might be a sudden shortage of QQ. Everyone can be totally happy that Cyrodiil is chest and exploit free then. Isn't that nice!

Ha. I would like to have your optimism. Given the response + API changes ~8 months ago and overall lack of any other reaction till now, the most probable change (other than stating no change is needed) is removal of stealth notifications.

Feanor

@SodanTok

I don't care if they change it or not. I just hope that @Dorrino doesn't abandon the other real excellent features of the addon though if they did.

Dorrino

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

On a final note Miat , you are a min/max player and design your builds to have the least amount of flaws . You play the meta for your class . Meta meaning Most . Efficient . Tactic . Available . The game comes with stealth which has what you call a unfair advantage which is meta , but some how build for the most efficiency still , but also gimping yourself to not use stealth over a moral issue . All while telling people your addon that removes some stealth attacks is fine and anyone that thinks differently just has a moral issue with what the API already provides . I like you as a person your train of thought in gaming goes right into a gorge sometimes .

Also I should get some form of a run on sentence award for this .

And the said gorge is what exactly?:)

I've been told 'the game is designed like that'. At the same time it's quite easy to show that the game is not designed like that something.

The moral stance is all that we got, when a rational preference is unavailable.

I don't judge the way other people prefer to play. It's up to them. But i don't see how being oblivious what kind of gameplay the unawareness promotes can help the discussion.

If i ganked i would be perfectly aware that i'm afraid to engage in a fair fight. I wouldn't think my skills as the player are adequate to the challenge. Basically i'd suck. While being fully aware that i suck. And the last thing that could come up my mind would be trying to justify my lack of proficiency with 'the game is designed this way' or a similar level of notions whose only purpose is to hide me being bad (or not good enough) in pvp.

It's fine to be bad. It's fine to refuse yourself with improvements by indulging in low skill level activity. It's not fine to promote your surrender as a desirable playstyle.

This is my stance on the issue.

SodanTok

Feanor wrote: »

@SodanTok

I don't care if they change it or not. I just hope that @Dorrino doesn't abandon the other real excellent features of the addon though if they did.

Well, hopefully not. I am literally waiting for the api changes to finally use it (I know all the cheat stuff can be disabled, but still)

Dorrino

Feanor wrote: »

@SodanTok

I don't care if they change it or not. I just hope that @Dorrino doesn't abandon the other real excellent features of the addon though if they did.

That's nothing to develop there. If the game stops providing some events you just won't see them. Nothing would need to be changed in the addon itself.