PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Transmutation

SanTii.92

So, could anyone summarize from where and how many crystals we can get. I got kinda lost after last patch.

Morgul667

Same same but more than before, they increased the price so ... id say similar.

Maybe more easy to get I m not sure

STEVIL

i think it might would be made clearer if for things like this, a chart basically of whn-this-then-that to have each patch release that changes them reprint the new chart, instead of line items of only the alterations. Discussions and assessments of balance for these really only make sense in the context of the other options and if they are spread across three different sets of notes, then four, that gets very hard to do - unnecessarily hard to do.

just a suggestion for future patch notes on the drop rates and content for them.

Baconlad

Lets get real here...zenimax doesnt want to completely destroy the in game player run economy for unbound gear. And the only huge issue with not being able to change your traits is farming for months and not getting the item you are looking for. Those items being mostly instance/ trails gear, and monster helms. So how do you allow players to get the gear they want, without a rediculous time?

Make it so that you need say five items (restoration staff of overwhelming surge lets say in the wrong trait.) There be a vendor in undaunted that you can turn in five restoration staves of overwhelming surge and get one restoration staff in the perfect trait. The same works for monster helms except with zero care to the weight of the set piece. You also make it so that it works only on bind on pickup gear! You would not touch the sellability of soulshine sharpened one handed swords. But you have dramatically ended the poor players run of bad luck trying to farm vet trails sharpened staffs

IAVITNI

Is anyone else concerned that this will take away the fun from some of these activities. I know when I started out, it felt like I HAD to complete my pledges on all my characters every day in order to get the Monster Shoulders I needed. Honestly, I hated them at one point. Now that I have most of the shoulders I want, I actually enjoy running Dungeons again.

For me, what killed the fun was that the ONLY way for me to get the keys was through Pledges. Now I know there is a lot more diversity in obtaining crystals and I actually support the current implementation, theoretically (I play PS4 ) Just wondering if people on the PTS are getting this feeling.

Takes-No-Prisoner

IAVITNI wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned that this will take away the fun from some of these activities. I know when I started out, it felt like I HAD to complete my pledges on all my characters every day in order to get the Monster Shoulders I needed. Honestly, I hated them at one point. Now that I have most of the shoulders I want, I actually enjoy running Dungeons again.

For me, what killed the fun was that the ONLY way for me to get the keys was through Pledges. Now I know there is a lot more diversity in obtaining crystals and I actually support the current implementation, theoretically (I play PS4 ) Just wondering if people on the PTS are getting this feeling.

I'm not, the implication I get reading the patch notes is; You play your actives, you get the transmute stones. You then take a piece of gear you want to re-trait and pay the 50 stone fee to re-trait it. The re-trait process is based on if the toon knows the researched material, so crafter is who you'd change trait on.

So the question is next, what do I re-trait? The implications I have seen reading this forum is, re-trait the harder to come by items, farm things like body pieces for the correct trait since normal dungeons make it easy to do that. So the Domihaus light well-fitted shoulder or the 2H 7th Legion Greatsword Precise would be good candidates for this.

If you enjoy doing dungeons again, then by all means go for it. I ran them again for the past few days an got a Stormfist shoulder heavy divines. I'm also in your guild too @IAVITNI , Original Grinders Stoneys guild, if you want me to install PTS on my laptop you should PSN me Drogskol_Capn and I can hop on and take a look at it.

rabb1t_ESO

Baconlad wrote: »

Make it so that you need say five items (restoration staff of overwhelming surge lets say in the wrong trait.) There be a vendor in undaunted that you can turn in five restoration staves of overwhelming surge and get one restoration staff in the perfect trait.

An easier version of that, which I'm sure many would argue against, would be to have a token vendor. Instead of your suggestion of needing 5 wrong matching things, you just sell the item to a vendor and get a 'token of x'. And for the item you want it costs 5 'token of x'.

But, I'm sure as any of those who were around for the WoW token times could attest, having even 3 types of tokens gets really annoying and starts to outweigh the benefits of such a system. You get up to 5 token types and it gets completely absurd. (Note we are already at 5(?) in the released game; gold, crowns, telvar(?) stones, and PvP points, and with the introduction of this system that puts them at 5 token types already.)

I would personally love a token system, especially for motifs*, as collecting an entire set of something is already difficult enough, especially for those of us who are more casual and don't have a trade guild to sell unwanted items in. (Which, feel how you want about casual players, but I'd guess they are at least 75% of the population. I think Bungie said something like only 13% of players in Destiny (1) had every played a trial EVER.)

Sure, the set pieces you want of some things is pretty easy. Like the current sets from WB and dailies in Vvardenfell. I actually constantly get extra jewelry items and have more than enough of those. But set that come from places I visit less frequently I only have a couple of those in the bank waiting for more.

* I must have more than a dozen bank slots for extra motifs I could trade. Some stacks of as many as 3 of a thing.

Galenus_of_Pergamon

Can transmuted items be sold to other players or are they bound to the creator?

STEVIL

Galenus_of_Pergamon wrote: »

Can transmuted items be sold to other players or are they bound to the creator?

bound when they transmute.

i would prefer if BoE status did not change with transmute.
Though also i would like maketable crystals. (Aren't there already enough cant sell and cant keep as many as you can get items around in our characters?)

Dubhliam

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

STEVIL

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Well it addresses what activity they can come from but not the drop rates. So if you are concerned about some "worthiness" threshold crystal paradigm, my bet is they are addressing that from the rate side rather than the yay or nay side to be more inclusive on the content included in the system while retaining the incentive for some content over others in the rates of return.

For me, in my way of thinking, any significant block of content that drops set pieces that can use the transmute system should also include the possibility to provide the fuel for it. the rationale is simple - this new crystal thing is meant to cap the RNG of trait grinding by adding crystals to the content where the RNG is being hit. Its not some new "reward for the worthy" as much as a patch for potentially ludicrously bad RNG results, mitigating the worst case scenarios.

it makes no sense to me to say that the worst case RNg results for "normal" dungeons is fine so they should include crystals.

But the rates i would prefer should reward extra crystals for tackling tougher content.

But thats me.

Dubhliam

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Well it addresses what activity they can come from but not the drop rates. So if you are concerned about some "worthiness" threshold crystal paradigm, my bet is they are addressing that from the rate side rather than the yay or nay side to be more inclusive on the content included in the system while retaining the incentive for some content over others in the rates of return.

For me, in my way of thinking, any significant block of content that drops set pieces that can use the transmute system should also include the possibility to provide the fuel for it. the rationale is simple - this new crystal thing is meant to cap the RNG of trait grinding by adding crystals to the content where the RNG is being hit. Its not some new "reward for the worthy" as much as a patch for potentially ludicrously bad RNG results, mitigating the worst case scenarios.

it makes no sense to me to say that the worst case RNg results for "normal" dungeons is fine so they should include crystals.

But the rates i would prefer should reward extra crystals for tackling tougher content.

But thats me.

The system should be here to help out those players that don't have the time to endlessly grind content for drops.

Those players that DO have that time never had problems with finding the desired trait for their gear. They simply go farm it day in day out, and whoosh! They have perfect traits.
If every normal random dungeon drops Crystals, then nothing has changed.
People with lots of time will simply grind out the Crystals and whoosh! Perfect traits.
While those players that didn't have time to grind will still be stuck with the same traits, and little to none Crystals.

IMO, this new system should not incentivize grind.
Instead, it should simply be a motivation for regular activities (first random daily dungeon, trial weeklies, PvP etc.) with additional reward for tackling harder content (incentive for every player to improve).

I don't think EVERY random normal run should award a Crystal. There already is a chance for normal dungeon bosses to drop geodes.

STEVIL

Dubhliam wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Well it addresses what activity they can come from but not the drop rates. So if you are concerned about some "worthiness" threshold crystal paradigm, my bet is they are addressing that from the rate side rather than the yay or nay side to be more inclusive on the content included in the system while retaining the incentive for some content over others in the rates of return.

For me, in my way of thinking, any significant block of content that drops set pieces that can use the transmute system should also include the possibility to provide the fuel for it. the rationale is simple - this new crystal thing is meant to cap the RNG of trait grinding by adding crystals to the content where the RNG is being hit. Its not some new "reward for the worthy" as much as a patch for potentially ludicrously bad RNG results, mitigating the worst case scenarios.

it makes no sense to me to say that the worst case RNg results for "normal" dungeons is fine so they should include crystals.

But the rates i would prefer should reward extra crystals for tackling tougher content.

But thats me.

The system should be here to help out those players that don't have the time to endlessly grind content for drops.

Those players that DO have that time never had problems with finding the desired trait for their gear. They simply go farm it day in day out, and whoosh! They have perfect traits.
If every normal random dungeon drops Crystals, then nothing has changed.
People with lots of time will simply grind out the Crystals and whoosh! Perfect traits.
While those players that didn't have time to grind will still be stuck with the same traits, and little to none Crystals.

IMO, this new system should not incentivize grind.
Instead, it should simply be a motivation for regular activities (first random daily dungeon, trial weeklies, PvP etc.) with additional reward for tackling harder content (incentive for every player to improve).

I don't think EVERY random normal run should award a Crystal. There already is a chance for normal dungeon bosses to drop geodes.

Ok so, what you wanted (the new transmute sub-system to be - a replacement for grind for those without the time (and a quicker access for those with the time)) is obviously not what they wanted the system to be. they wanted it to provide you an RNG buffer while running the same content you were running. So it is not a grind-alt but a bad-grind-patch.

This is not saying whether or not yours is a better vision than theirs or vice versa but they overtly stated their goals were not to replace grind but basically cap it. So by all means push for this change of vision esp during playtest.

but i have no idea what that has to do with normal dungeons dropping crystals. they seem different aspect of the system. Don't know for sure what the rates between normal and vets yet but as long as the vet drops more than the normal on average why is it a problem?

is it just a preference/flavor thing? Ok thats fine... vanilla vs butter pecan - got it.

To me if they both drop gear that suffers RNG grind they should both get the new RNG-cap-fix added in. Its not like the DECISIVE BSW staff dropped in City of Ash 1 normal is going to reject the crystals from the vet Crypt of Hearts, right?

They could have gone with different flavors of crystals, so that each content dropped more limited targetted crystals... but instead they seem to be going with simpler "rate control" across the content.

Seems like a reasonable choice, even if i dont agree with all of it... but it is still in development.

Dubhliam

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Well it addresses what activity they can come from but not the drop rates. So if you are concerned about some "worthiness" threshold crystal paradigm, my bet is they are addressing that from the rate side rather than the yay or nay side to be more inclusive on the content included in the system while retaining the incentive for some content over others in the rates of return.

For me, in my way of thinking, any significant block of content that drops set pieces that can use the transmute system should also include the possibility to provide the fuel for it. the rationale is simple - this new crystal thing is meant to cap the RNG of trait grinding by adding crystals to the content where the RNG is being hit. Its not some new "reward for the worthy" as much as a patch for potentially ludicrously bad RNG results, mitigating the worst case scenarios.

it makes no sense to me to say that the worst case RNg results for "normal" dungeons is fine so they should include crystals.

But the rates i would prefer should reward extra crystals for tackling tougher content.

But thats me.

The system should be here to help out those players that don't have the time to endlessly grind content for drops.

Those players that DO have that time never had problems with finding the desired trait for their gear. They simply go farm it day in day out, and whoosh! They have perfect traits.
If every normal random dungeon drops Crystals, then nothing has changed.
People with lots of time will simply grind out the Crystals and whoosh! Perfect traits.
While those players that didn't have time to grind will still be stuck with the same traits, and little to none Crystals.

IMO, this new system should not incentivize grind.
Instead, it should simply be a motivation for regular activities (first random daily dungeon, trial weeklies, PvP etc.) with additional reward for tackling harder content (incentive for every player to improve).

I don't think EVERY random normal run should award a Crystal. There already is a chance for normal dungeon bosses to drop geodes.

Ok so, what you wanted (the new transmute sub-system to be - a replacement for grind for those without the time (and a quicker access for those with the time)) is obviously not what they wanted the system to be. they wanted it to provide you an RNG buffer while running the same content you were running. So it is not a grind-alt but a bad-grind-patch.

This is not saying whether or not yours is a better vision than theirs or vice versa but they overtly stated their goals were not to replace grind but basically cap it. So by all means push for this change of vision esp during playtest.

but i have no idea what that has to do with normal dungeons dropping crystals. they seem different aspect of the system. Don't know for sure what the rates between normal and vets yet but as long as the vet drops more than the normal on average why is it a problem?

is it just a preference/flavor thing? Ok thats fine... vanilla vs butter pecan - got it.

To me if they both drop gear that suffers RNG grind they should both get the new RNG-cap-fix added in. Its not like the DECISIVE BSW staff dropped in City of Ash 1 normal is going to reject the crystals from the vet Crypt of Hearts, right?

They could have gone with different flavors of crystals, so that each content dropped more limited targetted crystals... but instead they seem to be going with simpler "rate control" across the content.

Seems like a reasonable choice, even if i dont agree with all of it... but it is still in development.

You don't get it.

I'm not against normals having a chance to drop.
I'm against random normals having 100% drop chance. (Apart from the first in the day).

First in the day random normal has 100% chance to drop?
I got no problem with that.

But their wording suggest all subsequent random normals also have 100% drop rate if I read it correctly.

That is just wrong.

STEVIL

Dubhliam wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Well it addresses what activity they can come from but not the drop rates. So if you are concerned about some "worthiness" threshold crystal paradigm, my bet is they are addressing that from the rate side rather than the yay or nay side to be more inclusive on the content included in the system while retaining the incentive for some content over others in the rates of return.

For me, in my way of thinking, any significant block of content that drops set pieces that can use the transmute system should also include the possibility to provide the fuel for it. the rationale is simple - this new crystal thing is meant to cap the RNG of trait grinding by adding crystals to the content where the RNG is being hit. Its not some new "reward for the worthy" as much as a patch for potentially ludicrously bad RNG results, mitigating the worst case scenarios.

it makes no sense to me to say that the worst case RNg results for "normal" dungeons is fine so they should include crystals.

But the rates i would prefer should reward extra crystals for tackling tougher content.

But thats me.

The system should be here to help out those players that don't have the time to endlessly grind content for drops.

Those players that DO have that time never had problems with finding the desired trait for their gear. They simply go farm it day in day out, and whoosh! They have perfect traits.
If every normal random dungeon drops Crystals, then nothing has changed.
People with lots of time will simply grind out the Crystals and whoosh! Perfect traits.
While those players that didn't have time to grind will still be stuck with the same traits, and little to none Crystals.

IMO, this new system should not incentivize grind.
Instead, it should simply be a motivation for regular activities (first random daily dungeon, trial weeklies, PvP etc.) with additional reward for tackling harder content (incentive for every player to improve).

I don't think EVERY random normal run should award a Crystal. There already is a chance for normal dungeon bosses to drop geodes.

Ok so, what you wanted (the new transmute sub-system to be - a replacement for grind for those without the time (and a quicker access for those with the time)) is obviously not what they wanted the system to be. they wanted it to provide you an RNG buffer while running the same content you were running. So it is not a grind-alt but a bad-grind-patch.

This is not saying whether or not yours is a better vision than theirs or vice versa but they overtly stated their goals were not to replace grind but basically cap it. So by all means push for this change of vision esp during playtest.

but i have no idea what that has to do with normal dungeons dropping crystals. they seem different aspect of the system. Don't know for sure what the rates between normal and vets yet but as long as the vet drops more than the normal on average why is it a problem?

is it just a preference/flavor thing? Ok thats fine... vanilla vs butter pecan - got it.

To me if they both drop gear that suffers RNG grind they should both get the new RNG-cap-fix added in. Its not like the DECISIVE BSW staff dropped in City of Ash 1 normal is going to reject the crystals from the vet Crypt of Hearts, right?

They could have gone with different flavors of crystals, so that each content dropped more limited targetted crystals... but instead they seem to be going with simpler "rate control" across the content.

Seems like a reasonable choice, even if i dont agree with all of it... but it is still in development.

You don't get it.

I'm not against normals having a chance to drop.
I'm against random normals having 100% drop chance. (Apart from the first in the day).

First in the day random normal has 100% chance to drop?
I got no problem with that.

But their wording suggest all subsequent random normals also have 100% drop rate if I read it correctly.

That is just wrong.

Ok so it is about rate and as i said the rates are uncertain and shifting and i have no problem with rates verying between types of content and tiers of content.

But that said, they just referenced some changes in this patch and did not repeat the entire modified drop chart, so for me reading anything into it that is not explicitly stated is thin ice to rage on.

But thats Ok, have fun.

my bet is we see more changes to rate and content monday and the next week and more at release - at least 2 out of 3.

Also, for me, one guaranteed drop per normal dungeon is not a universal wrong. it depends on what the drops are for the other content and what the final crystal requirements are. 1 guaranteed crystal if it takes 100 to trans one item and everything else drops 10+... not game breaking for a random normal dungeon IMO or even a problem. So without a clear whole picture, its all going to stay about relative rates ratios over time and tiers - no one specific rate verbotten without knowing the others.

In my experience the only thing i have found and experienced that was "just wrong" was BudBerry Beer - think combining grape jelly and Budweiser only worse.

Blackleopardex

I don't get why people complain about the cost... We had hardcore complaints on RNG and when they finally give in and give us a system that is a RNG break.. It's to expensive?? Just think about the time you would have to use to farm your staff in the correct trait? Some people have been farming for months... And now they add in these stones just for the RNG cry.. So you can farm your gear while hoping for the good trait and collecting stones at the same time knowing you will eventually get what you want... Come on cry more about, it's so incredible to me....

disintegr8

Looks like the thread deviated at some point and turned into a debate about whether getting what you need to change a trait should be easy or hard. Some people are unhappy about the crystal drop rates, others are focused on the table cost - some are concerned about both.

I doubt I'll ever get enough crystals to modify one piece of armour, let alone a whole set. What I can do is get writ vouchers until the cows come home, so I am wondering how much the tables will sell for in traders (if you can sell them) - I already have enough vouchers for 2.

Somebody did raise the subject of ZOS 'tweaking' the traits and sets - as they did with the last update - and what would happen to your BiS set, which you have worked hard to complete through transmutation. Suddenly it's not as good when compared to another but to start the grind again - oh my........

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for something worth using my 350+ undaunted keys on..... maybe I can eventually get the crystals from the undaunted chests. That would irritate people who would see it as a short cut and fail to see the dungeon grind represented by that many keys!

Mystrius_Archaion

IAVITNI wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned that this will take away the fun from some of these activities. I know when I started out, it felt like I HAD to complete my pledges on all my characters every day in order to get the Monster Shoulders I needed. Honestly, I hated them at one point. Now that I have most of the shoulders I want, I actually enjoy running Dungeons again.

For me, what killed the fun was that the ONLY way for me to get the keys was through Pledges. Now I know there is a lot more diversity in obtaining crystals and I actually support the current implementation, theoretically (I play PS4 ) Just wondering if people on the PTS are getting this feeling.

It's the inevitable and obvious problem of all game development and event planning and even work compensation to entice potential employees.

They're trying to push grouping for content they want to push and inevitably causing it to feel less desirable and more necessary and thus a lot more undesirable and frustrating and not fun.
Forcing grouping and socialization works as well as getting politicians of opposing political parties to agree that both of them have equally valid points of view and ideas and that they should be able to accomplish all their goals together. That's just against their nature as forced grouping and socializing is against human nature.

We want to group, for the most part, as humans. We just want to do so because it is fun, not because we need the other people. Needing other people inevitably leads to blaming the other people if things do not go according to plan.

The developers of this game have a lot to learn about developing content for an MMO. They need an object lesson from games with very active group endgame content, like City of Heroes(before it was shutdown for lack of increasing profit) and DC Universe Online that doesn't have hard modes as far as I know. Even World of Warcraft has a much more active endgame crowd due to the fact that it's a relatively simple gear treadmill to climb to be able to see the story and complete the group content. The "hardest content" on WoW is reputation with factions of NPCs, which many games have and more could use. The actual group content itself is not that hard because that hurts accessibility and thus hurts player retention and new player enticement.

The true hardest content on the best MMO games I have ever played has always been the solo content, or the group content attempted solo. All the best games, the most enjoyable, have had group content easier than solo content because of easy to get common group buffs just from other people being there that compensate for lack of skill.
Grouping needs to be easier than soloing to actually make it fun and encourage grouping. It's the only way that has ever worked.

zaria

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Support also dropping from random normals, this to avoid having noobs flooding random vet and jump out if too hard or try and fail, vet dungeons would be pretty unpugable with this.
However restricting it to the first random put an cap on it, you can bypass with with having adds but then you need to gear up the adds too.

Dubhliam

zaria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Support also dropping from random normals, this to avoid having noobs flooding random vet and jump out if too hard or try and fail, vet dungeons would be pretty unpugable with this.
However restricting it to the first random put an cap on it, you can bypass with with having adds but then you need to gear up the adds too.

Well exactly, people that want to grind the Crystals and have the time to do so will do it anyway.

• Pledges with multiple characters (doable on normal)
• First random dungeons with multiple characters (doable on normal)
• Trial weeklies with multiple characters (doable on normal)

Just... don't encourage grinding by letting all subsequent random dungeons grant a guaranteed Crystal.
That's just wrong.

It has nothing to do with promoting Group Finder.
You can form a premade group and farm random dungeons all day long.

Soleya

StereoLiz wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

in a day that's only 5 guaranteed

* 14 characters = 70 guaranteed crystals and unknown quantity of possible crystals in PvE

VS

0 guaranteed daily crystals in PvP.

Fair? Really?

Very unlikely that a person is going to run 4 dungeons and the daily quest per day on 14 characters. If it takes 20 mins per dungeon, your looking at 23 hours to do all that on every character.

STEVIL

Dubhliam wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Support also dropping from random normals, this to avoid having noobs flooding random vet and jump out if too hard or try and fail, vet dungeons would be pretty unpugable with this.
However restricting it to the first random put an cap on it, you can bypass with with having adds but then you need to gear up the adds too.

Well exactly, people that want to grind the Crystals and have the time to do so will do it anyway.

• Pledges with multiple characters (doable on normal)
• First random dungeons with multiple characters (doable on normal)
• Trial weeklies with multiple characters (doable on normal)

Just... don't encourage grinding by letting all subsequent random dungeons grant a guaranteed Crystal.
That's just wrong.

It has nothing to do with promoting Group Finder.
You can form a premade group and farm random dungeons all day long.

if its ok to farm random dungeons all day long with a premade group for the same gear with traits by RNG... i still have no clue why it would be bad to also give out some crystals for that so much that it is an absolute wrong?

Why is a possible RNG screw-over from running dungeons of flavor xyz for abc hours OK fine and dandy how things should be but a problem that must be addressed with new subsystem for flavor DEF for the much same hours of playtime???

Just saying its an absolute wrong does not a supporting case make.

As a preference, sure, no prob. You would like the taste better that way. no argument there. But that would be more accurately stated by saying "That's just wrong. not the flavor i prefer."

Seems to me the RNG for traits is tied to the crystals thing and that RNg thing still exists for random dungeons of any flavor.

Dubhliam

STEVIL wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

• Transmute Crystals will now also be granted from the weekly Trial quests, your first-in-a-day Random Dungeon, or subsequent random Dungeons, regardless of whether you do those activities on Veteran mode or Normal mode. Previously, they were available only from Veteran mode.

Am I reading this wrong?
Does this mean you can farm Crystals all day long simply by doing normal random dungeons?

Please tell me I am reading this wrong.

This is absurd.

Support also dropping from random normals, this to avoid having noobs flooding random vet and jump out if too hard or try and fail, vet dungeons would be pretty unpugable with this.
However restricting it to the first random put an cap on it, you can bypass with with having adds but then you need to gear up the adds too.

Well exactly, people that want to grind the Crystals and have the time to do so will do it anyway.

• Pledges with multiple characters (doable on normal)
• First random dungeons with multiple characters (doable on normal)
• Trial weeklies with multiple characters (doable on normal)

Just... don't encourage grinding by letting all subsequent random dungeons grant a guaranteed Crystal.
That's just wrong.

It has nothing to do with promoting Group Finder.
You can form a premade group and farm random dungeons all day long.

if its ok to farm random dungeons all day long with a premade group for the same gear with traits by RNG... i still have no clue why it would be bad to also give out some crystals for that so much that it is an absolute wrong?

Why is a possible RNG screw-over from running dungeons of flavor xyz for abc hours OK fine and dandy how things should be but a problem that must be addressed with new subsystem for flavor DEF for the much same hours of playtime???

Just saying its an absolute wrong does not a supporting case make.

As a preference, sure, no prob. You would like the taste better that way. no argument there. But that would be more accurately stated by saying "That's just wrong. not the flavor i prefer."

Seems to me the RNG for traits is tied to the crystals thing and that RNg thing still exists for random dungeons of any flavor.

ZOS has a chance to motivate people and they are going to waste it.

Same thing happened with Guild dailies.
Instead of tying gear to daily content, they enable grind.

Casual players get screwed, no lifers get everything.

Asardes

Kudos for the decision to reward 4 crystals for vMA and 5 for vDSA. Those are far more difficult than any dungeon. The number of crystals should be directly tied with difficulty of the content.

Hutch679

Terrible decision to make the crystals character bound. Seriously. What's the point of that? To have to gear up a crafter to run dungeons? Or force a dungeon character to learn traits?

TheRealPotoroo

Hutch679 wrote: »

Terrible decision to make the crystals character bound. Seriously. What's the point of that? To have to gear up a crafter to run dungeons? Or force a dungeon character to learn traits?

ZoS hates crafters.

Dubhliam

Uh... gear is not bound? You can send gear across characters.

STEVIL

Hutch679 wrote: »

Terrible decision to make the crystals character bound. Seriously. What's the point of that? To have to gear up a crafter to run dungeons? Or force a dungeon character to learn traits?

I thought crystals were currency and thus account wide. has that changed?

BrightOblivion

STEVIL wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Terrible decision to make the crystals character bound. Seriously. What's the point of that? To have to gear up a crafter to run dungeons? Or force a dungeon character to learn traits?

I thought crystals were currency and thus account wide. has that changed?

Not that I'm aware, no. They're jus misinformed.

STEVIL

BrightOblivion wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Terrible decision to make the crystals character bound. Seriously. What's the point of that? To have to gear up a crafter to run dungeons? Or force a dungeon character to learn traits?

I thought crystals were currency and thus account wide. has that changed?

Not that I'm aware, no. They're jus misinformed.

gotcha... thats what i thought.