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Shieldbreaker escaped proc set nerfs
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Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Which is a personal problem. Not a balance problem.
Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.
true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics
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buttaface✭✭✭✭✭So, your 'build to survive shieldbreaker' involves being a purgebot, hiding in the middle of a group and having the speed to run away.? Or not using shields? Not using shields would be fine if you could instantly turn them off when needed, AND there were builds that can defend well for a time without shields being up, without also synergising really, really badly with shields.
Ice staff blocking? It just works so badly with sorc. Anyone knows that you also need heals to be with that blocking.. So where does sorc get them? You can't block while dark dealing, surge does nothing while you don't attack, pet-heals are out as theyre dead with no shields. All others have to come from the resto-bar and those arnt fantastic.
Compared to other classes, when built for blocking, sorcs are just very bad at it. Where does the sustain come from? I know you're not suggesting building a block-build on a class that is bad at it.
1. What is it with you guys with the constant slant and being unable to follow claims and counterclaims in a very simple written discussion? See if you can follow along as I connect large dots with crayons... someone in the thread, maybe more than one, claimed that... unlike EVERY other class... the sorcerer class was unable to craft a decent build without using shields. This is horse manure. I posted a single example of a no shield build that I actually use. It's not "my build to survive shieldbreaker" as you inaccurately slant above, but one EXAMPLE among dozens or hundreds of possibilities for a sorc not running shields.
2. Also, "hiding in the middle of a group?" and "purgebot?" What a joke of slanted nonsense. PvP pugs very often do not have anyone running support skills due to the high cost, cramped bars, and selfish general playstyle. Organized groups often need support builds also. Sorc is well-suited to this due to its resource regeneration engine that other builds and classes do not have. Don't like that? Don't play it, try one of the dozens of other possibilities of a gear/skill swap option when someone uses SB.
Overextending out of a group is a BAD IDEA for anyone other than a tank designed to feint enemies into overextending themselves. But you continue on with your "hiding in the middle of a group" error, see how that works for you.
3. Your comments on ice staff blocking are nonsensical on their face. "Heals to be with that blocking?" Again, you nerfherders have logical thinking challenges, in this game and others, "blocking a few hits with an ice staff," which is an accurate paraphrase of what I posted, is not standing there and trying to permablock like a tank. Sorcs are no worse than any other class, better even in that once they block a hit to get time to streak away or cc, los, they can regen the resources they use to block very easily.
1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
Because the counter is a gimmick gear set that does not require any skill or tactics beyond mashing the left mouse button.
And Power of the Light is not a counter for cloak. The yellow/green glow does not follow the NB around, it stays in the place where cloak was used.
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Devilhand✭✭✭
This thread/discussion was, is and will be a "Im a mag sorc that runs glasscannon builds, and im dieng to Shieldbreaker. NERF IT". Even Lilith gived up answering back, because in the end you all know you are the ones that are wrong, because you dont want to adapt.
Nah, this thread like every other sorc thread is full of clueless people like you when it comes to sorcs and still pretending to be experts.
Whos the clueless? We are? because we defend a SET bonus over a WHOLE class that overperforms since launch? Give me a break.
You cant see under your nose.
Imagine SB gets nerf, whats next? Knigh slayer? Torugs with oblivion? So you guys can roam cyrodil and never expect to die, IF you are such a great player you call your self to be.
I have at least 1 of each class, fully lvled and geared. Run solo 95% of the time and although lately 1vXing has become more difficult, due to the massive zergs (Cant say im wrong with that...), im not complaining because in the end i know i will die to +10 people.
On the other hand, you guys complaining about 1 set bonus and refusing to find a way to counter it. And, yes, there are ways to nullfil it.
Mag sorc is a noob friendly class, fast fingers with a good latency and FPS, and you can be unkillable. What other class can do that? You have the sustain, the mobility, the damage, and best defence in game. And yet you are complaining for 1, 5 piece set bonus?
And as Dorrino said, there are plenty of abilities/skills that are "shield breakers" against dodge, yet I am not complaining because its part of the game.
There are multiple skills/abilities that BREAK cloak (skill DOESNT work properly), and yet im not complaining.
Right now if you cant deal against a stam NB as a magicka class then you have problems. There are SO SO many counters that makes their class defence mechanism useless. Yet, I am not complaining in forums.
What is annoying is the fact you people cry about one set, a set that has been in the game for 2 years? because you dont know how to deal with it. But yet, dont realize the problem is not the set, its shield stacking and being a glasscannon at same time.
Lastly, its pvp you have to expect to die. There will always someone that can kill you, deal with it and stop being an snowflake.
Yes you are clueless because you defend a set that is a hardcounter to an entire class. If you actually had a clue about how you achieve a balanced and good PVP you would ask for specific nerfs to the root of the problem which is shieldstacking. Not advocating for a set that removes skill from the game.
You dont care about balance or that sorc is OP. You just like ur easy kills and u dont want to lose that. And yes, oblivion, knight slayer and all that sh*t fall to the same category.
You are playing solo and u are wondering why its incredibly difficult to do it lately. Thats because of trash mechanics, sets and abilities like shieldbreaker, oblivion dmg, soul assaults, undodgeable birds etc. The list is endless. They remove skill from the game. If you cant outplay them then it just boils down to numbers and u end up with that zergy skilless PVP you have today. Thats how it works. First get a clue about what skilled gameplay is and then you can tell people to L2P.
And the funny thing is that you are missing the entire point. I dont need to deal with it. Its not about dying. Thats not even the point. So your attempt to be the smartass is a fail. The point is how you die. If i die because i got outplayed or i did my best and still died well ok. Fair game. I tried and failed. But when i die because i got screwed by stupid mechanics and not because i got outplayed then yes i have a problem. When you die to a complete potato that has no clue about what he is doing and he just spams left click then u have an issue.
Dude, you are just funny. You start saying im clueless when i mentioned many times things you enlight to be your own idea. LOL
LEARN TO READ, and as a matter of fact L2P to. YOU, and not ME, is complaining about 1 single 5 bonus set piece that using it means to trade any other, and btw better 5 piece set, for a work against certain target set.
You are probably one of those easy mode zerglings that plays a sorc and cries when you die. If you die to a noob spamming Light attacks at you for 10-15 seconds then you deserve it. L2P
The set is part of the game, and if you died to it, well suck it up, live with it and learn to counter it. If not, stop crying in here.
No, you are clueless because you are saying that you are playing solo and its difficult to do it lately, and at the same time you are defending a bunch of trash mechanics that remove skill from the game.
You are clueless because you tell people to L2P while defending sets with zero player skill involved.
Everyone asked for ways to counter it. So far the suggestions were
1. a light armor build with 2 stamina sets and no shields
2. run away
3. I found a way to counter it but i wont share it. Lol at this one.
So you are basically both clueless and full of sh*t.
And no im not one of those easy mode zerglings. Usually those defending crap like that are the zerglings getting rekt whenever they dont have crap like that to rely on. You defend it, so makes me wonder who is the zergling here.
And no i dont die to a potato spamming light attack 1v1. Problem is they are not found in 1v1 situations so you are basically clueless, full of sh*t and out of touch with reality.
Glad that you admitted that you use shielbreaker tho. You basically admitted that you dont really give a sh*t about balance but you just like easy kills to cover ur lack of skill.
Im full of ***? Dude im done talking with you, go make another thread now and cry to nerf something because you are dieing.
I DONT have to share my ways to counter anything. Learn by yourself.
And yes, I do use SB in certain situations, yet not the way you think i do. Already explained how and its legit, the set works for such pourpose. Dont like it? ITS YOUR *** problem, the set is in the game.
and to your solutions, Im laughting at you for having to look in forums for a solution instead of thinking by yourself and being able to figure out how to counter it. Who is clueless?? LOL
Good try on thinking you can make me look like an ignorant, but in the end its you that turns out aggressive, crying and searching for someone else to tell you what to do.
I would tell you this, you either go back to your zerg or stop attempting to 1vX and come here and cry because "multiple" people "are" killing you.
And yes "multiple" and "are", like that because plenty of time you mag sorcs crying that 1 single person can burn your shields in 2 seconds... Give me a break, Dorrino, my self and many others explained how wrong you guys are.
Im not clueless or full of ***, you are. Cry more snowflake.0 -
Devilhand✭✭✭No normal sorc can sit still and "outheal" any incoming dmg. Stop stating ur bs as facts.
Thank god there's a written record here. CAN YOU READ? Then read what I actually posted, what it was in reply to, and start over. I have no doubt you will still get it wrong.Any competent player will chew through ur 19k shields faster than u can cast them.
Stop posting lies. Or perhaps you will add some actual examples that make sense instead of crapola like the above?No you didnt post a single viable sorc option without shields. You posted a light armor build with 2 stamina sets. Thats not viable. Thats the exact opposite. Any competent player will smoke you in 5 seconds and even full potatoes will kill you in 1vX.
1. Wrong. More hot air. 2. You think a set with arcane jewelry and 2000 magicka regeneration is a "stamina set?" LOL Or are you just slanting your argument? Will go with the latter. Fail. It's also not fair to call a set that gives you major protection and expedition AT THE SAME TIME while sprinting a "stamina set" either.
But OK, here's the playstyle. Sprint and streak through the midfield of the team casting purge every 5 or so seconds, spamming mutagen. Streak and deal triggers frags, which is cast on called targets or overextended enemies. It's a team build, not a gank or 1vx build. But I will assure you it is a very viable, if unconventional sorc build that teammates are glad to have around. And to preempt some "other class does it better" bs, what other class has streak? What other class has deal/exchange? What other class has defensive rune? what other class has an easily triggered instacast like frags that can be almost all your offense and free up the rest of the bars for defense and support?
I'll be the first to admit I haven't mastered this game's pvp yet. In 17 years of MMO pvp, most of what I've mastered are games with actual aim in three axes OR MMOs with actual asset control, where my guild OWNS a limited asset and derives significant benefits from it. ESO is kiddy stuff and mostly a dress up dolly game in comparison... sticky targeting? LOL. All the same, I still don't like nerfherders because they end up ruining games.That build also cant kill anything with half a brain. A light armor build to be viable without shields needs some serious mitigation/healing and/or the ability to dodge. Sorcs dont have that and ur build most definitely dont have that.
O you think major protection whenever the sprint key is being held down is not "serious" mitigation? Protip... you don't even have to be moving to get the mitigation.And no, mutagen and blessing of restoration cannot replace healing ward.
"Hey herp, how do I counter SB?"
"I don't know, derp, maybe add another damage shield?"
You want to whine about people switching gear to "hunt" you. Yet -you- don't want to switch your own gear to a counter, don't want to slot heals that would actually effectively -counter- SB.And please tell me more how a 4k heal attached to an ability with a cast time is the best selfheal in the game.
How in the F are you only getting 4k on avg out of deal/exchange? Or are you just slanting and making stuff up again? The reason it is the best self-heal is that it returns resources to boot, that's why it has a cast time, it would be absurdly OP without one. As it is it's just... the best self heal in the game.The only burst heal available to sorcs is the pet
So we are back to discounting blessing/combat prayer and mutagen. Those -are- available to sorcs... in addition to the best self heal in the game, dark deal/exchange.It just shows someone playing in zergs, getting carried by others and thinking he is the one doing the job. Or you are playing solo but you've set the bar so low to the point where killing potatoes in 1v1 is enough.
Babbling river of irrelevant BS. Why am I not surprised? You are predictableYou dont introduce a set that hardcounters that.
Guess what, when there is no shield up, SB does no-thing. That's not a hard counter "to the class" or to any number of sorc builds/gear setups. Here's another thought, how about equipping an ice staff and try -blocking- some hits when not using shield due to SB being around? Guess that would entail too much work.So please tell me again how the hell did shieldbreaker solved the shieldstacking issue when every single day a new nerf sorc thread pops.
I don't want sorcs nerfed, more irrelevant slant? Why yes it is. The set has been in for a long time, yet people still whine about sorcs? Hmmm, sounds like sorcs are doing pretty well then, despite SB.
Pieratsos Exposed.
And there are even more/better answers/justifications to your non sense, so make us all a favor and stop crying in forums.0 -
Devilhand✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »This joke of a thread still going?
Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.
If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.
So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?
The counter for shieldbreaker is to not use damage shields. Simple and obvious.
Ah, so the counter to shieldbreaker is to die to everything else. Got it, my bad. Simple and obvious indeed. Every suggestion is more hilarious than the last one. Probably the next one will be "the counter to shieldbreaker is to reroll a different class".
You should reroll. Making mag sorcs look bad in here.1 -
Devilhand✭✭✭@CyrusArya
Apologies accepted:)
I definitely agree with you that mag sorcs got their own problems.
The thing is any common battle situation gives magicka sorcs noticeably more room for error.
Any mistake is easily fixable, while counterburst is very easy to setup.
Basically the word that best describes magicka sorcs is - easy.
Even if this thread, people are so much used to this (rather unfortunate) state of magicka sorcs then given one guy actually pressuring them through their main defense they are immediately lost and can't find anything better to do than to complain to 'gods' to fix this atrocity:)
They don't take 'adapt' as an answer, because most likely they have been spoiled so much by the class mechanics - that they don't understand how it is even possible.
Like that guy that was genuinly surprised that a stamblade could adapt to wardens:)
Mechanics of mag sorc class, unfortunately, only promote rather low skill cap and superiority complex as the result.
If i had to play a mag sorc i'd apologize for each curse+frag+explosion in xv1. They, on the contrary, in their warped understanding of the game, consider it fair play:)
Yes at the high skill level play the spec is largely irrelevant. You're corrct there. Just like shieldbreaker though:)
But at that level heavy armor and mag sorcs still have it easier than the rest.
And only because of that both heavy and mag sorcs are op atm.
Same effectiveness, noticeably lower skill cap.
I hope now i'm clear on this subject.
Coming from the dude who creates add-ons to help with undesirable moves...
xD
I fail to see how a readily available burst with Spectral Bow and an unavoidable CC is more difficult than timing a Curse with a Frag. How dodging every five seconds (behind a rock) is more difficult than tracking your shields and decide when to stack and when not. How streaking and mining to fight melee is more difficult than spamming a gapcloser.
It is very clear YOU have an absolutely blurred and downright delusional view on classes and their combat behaviour.
And you're not alone. You are leading a chicken zoo of little cryhards who happily ramble this same thing over and over, not thinking for themselves, but rather copying other people's thoughts. It's even in this thread. And they can't do otherwise. They lack experience and skill. If the argument is that you can't get good enough on a non-sorc class and have to fall back to an even easier mechanic, you are just not as good as you think and should be soundly ignored.
Thank you for describing you self and plenty of other people.
In the other side, Miat, my self and other are just laughing at you guys for not being able to adapt to such a easy adaptable set. Mean while we will keep having fun seeing how stubborn mag sorcs die.
Oh, btw you guys are the ones crying remember? Read the Title of the discussion.
Maybe you should make another discussion called "Im a mag sorc, they told me im immortal but im dieing to SB. Nerf it, because i dont know how to deal with it."
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Devilhand✭✭✭
Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.
true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics
Well, only place where LoS isn´t a valid way of surviving (at least what I can think of) is in duels. But to balance set/PvP after how something performs in a duel is like balancing PvE after how certain things perform in maelstrom arena.
I don´t think ZOS will remove SB from the game (as some people suggest they should), since ZOS rarely removes sets from the game. Only legit suggestion I´ve seen in this thread is to make Shield Breaker only work on melee damage.
To be honest, I think that be a huge nerf since it would be addressing all the biggest issues I have with it in one go. Possibly too big a nerf, tbf.
I think possibly the best suggestion I've seen is for it to damage the shield rather than the person under it.. But the big question then would be whether SB damage should apply before the weapon/ability damage that applied it - or after. That answer would probably have the biggest impact on smaller shields like igneous.. But I also think it should add some kind of effect to the attack - maybe a purplish glow or something? The main method of delivery (bow light attacks) is very difficult to see.
I guess another solution - but probably too clunky would be an internal cd of maybe 1s.. so it doesn't get boosted by the light attack speed of bow - but that wouldn't really work as it would make bow one of the worst as it would have to wait for the next la, which would be 1.2 seconds, rather than 1 - halving its effectiveness. Nah, that's no good.
*Edit - more thoughts*
But really, fixing shieldbreaker does have to start with fixing the sorc class. I mean Zos have been going down the route of wanting players to use multiple defence types.. this is evidenced by the increase in unblockable/undodgeable/oblivion etc.. in recent patches. For most mag classes, this works as they have that already... whether its annulment + cloak, or class-based heals/purges.. or blocking which can be done with s+b cos class-based heals on the same bar... or passives helping with blocking/mitigation/resource return while blocking.. passives that reduce incoming damage...
Sorc gets annulment and.. another shield.. so a mechanic bypassing shields screws them on both counts.
or Blocking with no class heals that can be block-cast, and no passives to help with resources/defence while blocking..
I'd love to be able to play sorc as a heavy-armoured, s+b using lightning wielder - but it just doesn't work that way.(I have tried - more than once as different patches hit). can't heal on that defensive bar, can't sustain either the stam blocking or mag casting, cant deal enough sustained dmg unless going for destro on the other bar - which loses all heals but the very interuptable dark deal.. So get rid of shield-stacking, yeah - but give the class either a class spammable so it can be offensively effective while on a s+b bar (and have resto heals from back bar) - or a class heal that can be block-cast and doesn't rely on a shield to keep a pet alive for it (or as bard said - some kind of magica version of vigour so heals can be obtained without having to use resto).
(btw, i've tried using mutagen - and one of the MOST annoying things with it is that sometimes you have to cast it a ton of times to actually affect you instead of random people running past... Don't get that problem with vigour. So even mutagen is pretty damn unreliable too.)
Finally with some ideas. Please try to add some spaces between lines/dots. Easier to read.
1) Adding a cooldown to it, will result in people keep crying in forums. Personally, the way I ever use it, I dont care if it has 1 or 2 second cooldown, I just use it to burn the last 2-4k health the mag sorc has left after my burst, since I cant burst through the 3 shields before he heals up again. Which means go fully defensive until I have an ultimate again to try to burst him...
2) Changing it, so it does a flat value damage to the shield (like viper to shields) will result on mag sorcs and every single shield user to cry because Light attack spammers will consume their shields and die to the zerg/outnumbered even easier. Trust me it will be worse then 2k oblivion dmg from 1 person, and shields still up for everyone else.
So what about making it to increase the damage of your skills against shield by a important %. Like the CP line. 50%? Thoughts?
Now, I dont use pet builds on my mag sorc, but for those that say they cant use their pet to heal because they die to easily with out shields... Do you guys either run shields OR pets? I dont understand why you just cant shield up, use 1 time matriarch and while keep trying to kill the SB user. Sounds posible to me. As a matter in fact, Blobs in Youtube has a video where he deals a SB user with multiple people on him with such a build if i remember.
Also, Block casting is toxic. Block should be a defensive option, YOU decide to block certain skill. Being able to just hold block and casting its stupid and should be addresed. Templars BoL/block spamm, Warden Block/bird/trees/fungal spores (or what ever is called)/Scorch, DK's same thing. And if block casting is removed, then unblockable skill shouldnt exist either, but you know, this will never happen and is another issue.1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Weird double-post thing going on...
Edited by Biro123 on September 13, 2017 7:44PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Getting nuttier by the minute, you two.
YOU are advertising a defense-bypassing set AND crying how impenetrable shields are. While sorcs die left and right in Cyro. L2P at its best.
I can't hit with projectiles through dodge. I demand Dodgebreaker to counter all those 1vX dodgestackers. And I bet you are already sweating wildly upon that thought.
And for the record: I am concerned about SB spammers hiding in zergs. Reading comprehension... rare these days.0 -
Devilhand✭✭✭Getting nuttier by the minute, you two.
YOU are advertising a defense-bypassing set AND crying how impenetrable shields are. While sorcs die left and right in Cyro. L2P at its best.
I can't hit with projectiles through dodge. I demand Dodgebreaker to counter all those 1vX dodgestackers. And I bet you are already sweating wildly upon that thought.
And for the record: I am concerned about SB spammers hiding in zergs. Reading comprehension... rare these days.
Oh, i get it... Once again, like i havent mentioned before, you expecting to 1vX and dont expecting to die. Poor soul.
You already have one, called Curse and mage wrath.
Be gone now.0 -
Devilhand✭✭✭
Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.
true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics
Well, only place where LoS isn´t a valid way of surviving (at least what I can think of) is in duels. But to balance set/PvP after how something performs in a duel is like balancing PvE after how certain things perform in maelstrom arena.
I don´t think ZOS will remove SB from the game (as some people suggest they should), since ZOS rarely removes sets from the game. Only legit suggestion I´ve seen in this thread is to make Shield Breaker only work on melee damage.
To be honest, I think that be a huge nerf since it would be addressing all the biggest issues I have with it in one go. Possibly too big a nerf, tbf.
I think possibly the best suggestion I've seen is for it to damage the shield rather than the person under it.. But the big question then would be whether SB damage should apply before the weapon/ability damage that applied it - or after. That answer would probably have the biggest impact on smaller shields like igneous.. But I also think it should add some kind of effect to the attack - maybe a purplish glow or something? The main method of delivery (bow light attacks) is very difficult to see.
I guess another solution - but probably too clunky would be an internal cd of maybe 1s.. so it doesn't get boosted by the light attack speed of bow - but that wouldn't really work as it would make bow one of the worst as it would have to wait for the next la, which would be 1.2 seconds, rather than 1 - halving its effectiveness. Nah, that's no good.
*Edit - more thoughts*
But really, fixing shieldbreaker does have to start with fixing the sorc class. I mean Zos have been going down the route of wanting players to use multiple defence types.. this is evidenced by the increase in unblockable/undodgeable/oblivion etc.. in recent patches. For most mag classes, this works as they have that already... whether its annulment + cloak, or class-based heals/purges.. or blocking which can be done with s+b cos class-based heals on the same bar... or passives helping with blocking/mitigation/resource return while blocking.. passives that reduce incoming damage...
Sorc gets annulment and.. another shield.. so a mechanic bypassing shields screws them on both counts.
or Blocking with no class heals that can be block-cast, and no passives to help with resources/defence while blocking..
I'd love to be able to play sorc as a heavy-armoured, s+b using lightning wielder - but it just doesn't work that way.(I have tried - more than once as different patches hit). can't heal on that defensive bar, can't sustain either the stam blocking or mag casting, cant deal enough sustained dmg unless going for destro on the other bar - which loses all heals but the very interuptable dark deal.. So get rid of shield-stacking, yeah - but give the class either a class spammable so it can be offensively effective while on a s+b bar (and have resto heals from back bar) - or a class heal that can be block-cast and doesn't rely on a shield to keep a pet alive for it (or as bard said - some kind of magica version of vigour so heals can be obtained without having to use resto).
(btw, i've tried using mutagen - and one of the MOST annoying things with it is that sometimes you have to cast it a ton of times to actually affect you instead of random people running past... Don't get that problem with vigour. So even mutagen is pretty damn unreliable too.)
Finally with some ideas. Please try to add some spaces between lines/dots. Easier to read.
1) Adding a cooldown to it, will result in people keep crying in forums. Personally, the way I ever use it, I dont care if it has 1 or 2 second cooldown, I just use it to burn the last 2-4k health the mag sorc has left after my burst, since I cant burst through the 3 shields before he heals up again. Which means go fully defensive until I have an ultimate again to try to burst him...
2) Changing it, so it does a flat value damage to the shield (like viper to shields) will result on mag sorcs and every single shield user to cry because Light attack spammers will consume their shields and die to the zerg/outnumbered even easier. Trust me it will be worse then 2k oblivion dmg from 1 person, and shields still up for everyone else.
So what about making it to increase the damage of your skills against shield by a important %. Like the CP line. 50%? Thoughts?
Now, I dont use pet builds on my mag sorc, but for those that say they cant use their pet to heal because they die to easily with out shields... Do you guys either run shields OR pets? I dont understand why you just cant shield up, use 1 time matriarch and while keep trying to kill the SB user. Sounds posible to me. As a matter in fact, Blobs in Youtube has a video where he deals a SB user with multiple people on him with such a build if i remember.
Also, Block casting is toxic. Block should be a defensive option, YOU decide to block certain skill. Being able to just hold block and casting its stupid and should be addresed. Templars BoL/block spamm, Warden Block/bird/trees/fungal spores (or what ever is called)/Scorch, DK's same thing. And if block casting is removed, then unblockable skill shouldnt exist either, but you know, this will never happen and is another issue.
Birro, you quoted but didnt type anything. uh?0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
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Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.
true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics
Well, only place where LoS isn´t a valid way of surviving (at least what I can think of) is in duels. But to balance set/PvP after how something performs in a duel is like balancing PvE after how certain things perform in maelstrom arena.
I don´t think ZOS will remove SB from the game (as some people suggest they should), since ZOS rarely removes sets from the game. Only legit suggestion I´ve seen in this thread is to make Shield Breaker only work on melee damage.
To be honest, I think that be a huge nerf since it would be addressing all the biggest issues I have with it in one go. Possibly too big a nerf, tbf.
I think possibly the best suggestion I've seen is for it to damage the shield rather than the person under it.. But the big question then would be whether SB damage should apply before the weapon/ability damage that applied it - or after. That answer would probably have the biggest impact on smaller shields like igneous.. But I also think it should add some kind of effect to the attack - maybe a purplish glow or something? The main method of delivery (bow light attacks) is very difficult to see.
I guess another solution - but probably too clunky would be an internal cd of maybe 1s.. so it doesn't get boosted by the light attack speed of bow - but that wouldn't really work as it would make bow one of the worst as it would have to wait for the next la, which would be 1.2 seconds, rather than 1 - halving its effectiveness. Nah, that's no good.
*Edit - more thoughts*
But really, fixing shieldbreaker does have to start with fixing the sorc class. I mean Zos have been going down the route of wanting players to use multiple defence types.. this is evidenced by the increase in unblockable/undodgeable/oblivion etc.. in recent patches. For most mag classes, this works as they have that already... whether its annulment + cloak, or class-based heals/purges.. or blocking which can be done with s+b cos class-based heals on the same bar... or passives helping with blocking/mitigation/resource return while blocking.. passives that reduce incoming damage...
Sorc gets annulment and.. another shield.. so a mechanic bypassing shields screws them on both counts.
or Blocking with no class heals that can be block-cast, and no passives to help with resources/defence while blocking..
I'd love to be able to play sorc as a heavy-armoured, s+b using lightning wielder - but it just doesn't work that way.(I have tried - more than once as different patches hit). can't heal on that defensive bar, can't sustain either the stam blocking or mag casting, cant deal enough sustained dmg unless going for destro on the other bar - which loses all heals but the very interuptable dark deal.. So get rid of shield-stacking, yeah - but give the class either a class spammable so it can be offensively effective while on a s+b bar (and have resto heals from back bar) - or a class heal that can be block-cast and doesn't rely on a shield to keep a pet alive for it (or as bard said - some kind of magica version of vigour so heals can be obtained without having to use resto).
(btw, i've tried using mutagen - and one of the MOST annoying things with it is that sometimes you have to cast it a ton of times to actually affect you instead of random people running past... Don't get that problem with vigour. So even mutagen is pretty damn unreliable too.)
Finally with some ideas. Please try to add some spaces between lines/dots. Easier to read.
1) Adding a cooldown to it, will result in people keep crying in forums. Personally, the way I ever use it, I dont care if it has 1 or 2 second cooldown, I just use it to burn the last 2-4k health the mag sorc has left after my burst, since I cant burst through the 3 shields before he heals up again. Which means go fully defensive until I have an ultimate again to try to burst him...
2) Changing it, so it does a flat value damage to the shield (like viper to shields) will result on mag sorcs and every single shield user to cry because Light attack spammers will consume their shields and die to the zerg/outnumbered even easier. Trust me it will be worse then 2k oblivion dmg from 1 person, and shields still up for everyone else.
So what about making it to increase the damage of your skills against shield by a important %. Like the CP line. 50%? Thoughts?
Now, I dont use pet builds on my mag sorc, but for those that say they cant use their pet to heal because they die to easily with out shields... Do you guys either run shields OR pets? I dont understand why you just cant shield up, use 1 time matriarch and while keep trying to kill the SB user. Sounds posible to me. As a matter in fact, Blobs in Youtube has a video where he deals a SB user with multiple people on him with such a build if i remember.
Also, Block casting is toxic. Block should be a defensive option, YOU decide to block certain skill. Being able to just hold block and casting its stupid and should be addresed. Templars BoL/block spamm, Warden Block/bird/trees/fungal spores (or what ever is called)/Scorch, DK's same thing. And if block casting is removed, then unblockable skill shouldnt exist either, but you know, this will never happen and is another issue.
Ideas are always good - but usually fairly pointless, tbf... Zos will always change something in an unexpected way despite what the playerbase thinks is reasonable.
1)? It would perhaps lessen the bow LA-spammers. Those are the biggest problem with it - since you don't know where its coming from and it has the fastest attack time. But yeah, there'll still be complaints.
2)? Yeah, you're probably right.. imagine a zerg of them and shudder.
A % dmg increase? workable. I can't see Zos giving 50% They would probably make it on par with the 5-piece from spinners/spriggarns.. What does that give nowadays? 6%? Yeah, I know - it only works on shields.. but then there are those avoiding spinners cos it doesn't work on shields. Can't see anyone using it at 6% though.
Problem with that though is scalability if having a large %. It could make it a LOT easier to break through shields 1v1 - but what defences would a sorc then have when attacked by multiple enemies.. ? They are already poor compared to other classes in that situation.
This is the overall problem with shields.. Can't balance them for both single and multiple enemies at the same time with their current mechanic. And with the class that has to rely on them.
The pet talk was about trying to come up with a way for a sorc to survive *without* having to rely on shields and illustrating the lack of heals when trying to come up with a build to do just that. I use the matriarch - and yes, I can easily survive vs a single shieldbreaker spammer.
The problem I have is when engaging with, say 2-3 guys thinking "I may be able to drop one quick - can maybe try 2-3 bursts then will have to get away".. and being confident that you can last so long before the pressure mounts.. having some CC to slow that, and a resto ult in case it gets nasty.
But if SB is in there - you have no chance. You gotta stop the attack and instantly go on the defensive.. they then all go on the offensive - and not only can you not outshield/dodge the damage anymore, you can't even fit in cd to throw in a pet-heal.
It's just THAT much of a gamechanger.
There often isn't even time to get to the closest rock. Yeah, I know its an outnumbered situation - but its one where it screws up your judgement.. It makes it like you don't know how to play/judge engagements anymore. I don't mind those incidents happening simply because I ran across skilled players who reacted well - but I do mind when it happens jut from someone mashing left-click.Edited by Biro123 on September 13, 2017 7:49PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This thread/discussion was, is and will be a "Im a mag sorc that runs glasscannon builds, and im dieng to Shieldbreaker. NERF IT". Even Lilith gived up answering back, because in the end you all know you are the ones that are wrong, because you dont want to adapt.
Nah, this thread like every other sorc thread is full of clueless people like you when it comes to sorcs and still pretending to be experts.
Whos the clueless? We are? because we defend a SET bonus over a WHOLE class that overperforms since launch? Give me a break.
You cant see under your nose.
Imagine SB gets nerf, whats next? Knigh slayer? Torugs with oblivion? So you guys can roam cyrodil and never expect to die, IF you are such a great player you call your self to be.
I have at least 1 of each class, fully lvled and geared. Run solo 95% of the time and although lately 1vXing has become more difficult, due to the massive zergs (Cant say im wrong with that...), im not complaining because in the end i know i will die to +10 people.
On the other hand, you guys complaining about 1 set bonus and refusing to find a way to counter it. And, yes, there are ways to nullfil it.
Mag sorc is a noob friendly class, fast fingers with a good latency and FPS, and you can be unkillable. What other class can do that? You have the sustain, the mobility, the damage, and best defence in game. And yet you are complaining for 1, 5 piece set bonus?
And as Dorrino said, there are plenty of abilities/skills that are "shield breakers" against dodge, yet I am not complaining because its part of the game.
There are multiple skills/abilities that BREAK cloak (skill DOESNT work properly), and yet im not complaining.
Right now if you cant deal against a stam NB as a magicka class then you have problems. There are SO SO many counters that makes their class defence mechanism useless. Yet, I am not complaining in forums.
What is annoying is the fact you people cry about one set, a set that has been in the game for 2 years? because you dont know how to deal with it. But yet, dont realize the problem is not the set, its shield stacking and being a glasscannon at same time.
Lastly, its pvp you have to expect to die. There will always someone that can kill you, deal with it and stop being an snowflake.
Yes you are clueless because you defend a set that is a hardcounter to an entire class. If you actually had a clue about how you achieve a balanced and good PVP you would ask for specific nerfs to the root of the problem which is shieldstacking. Not advocating for a set that removes skill from the game.
You dont care about balance or that sorc is OP. You just like ur easy kills and u dont want to lose that. And yes, oblivion, knight slayer and all that sh*t fall to the same category.
You are playing solo and u are wondering why its incredibly difficult to do it lately. Thats because of trash mechanics, sets and abilities like shieldbreaker, oblivion dmg, soul assaults, undodgeable birds etc. The list is endless. They remove skill from the game. If you cant outplay them then it just boils down to numbers and u end up with that zergy skilless PVP you have today. Thats how it works. First get a clue about what skilled gameplay is and then you can tell people to L2P.
And the funny thing is that you are missing the entire point. I dont need to deal with it. Its not about dying. Thats not even the point. So your attempt to be the smartass is a fail. The point is how you die. If i die because i got outplayed or i did my best and still died well ok. Fair game. I tried and failed. But when i die because i got screwed by stupid mechanics and not because i got outplayed then yes i have a problem. When you die to a complete potato that has no clue about what he is doing and he just spams left click then u have an issue.
Dude, you are just funny. You start saying im clueless when i mentioned many times things you enlight to be your own idea. LOL
LEARN TO READ, and as a matter of fact L2P to. YOU, and not ME, is complaining about 1 single 5 bonus set piece that using it means to trade any other, and btw better 5 piece set, for a work against certain target set.
You are probably one of those easy mode zerglings that plays a sorc and cries when you die. If you die to a noob spamming Light attacks at you for 10-15 seconds then you deserve it. L2P
The set is part of the game, and if you died to it, well suck it up, live with it and learn to counter it. If not, stop crying in here.
No, you are clueless because you are saying that you are playing solo and its difficult to do it lately, and at the same time you are defending a bunch of trash mechanics that remove skill from the game.
You are clueless because you tell people to L2P while defending sets with zero player skill involved.
Everyone asked for ways to counter it. So far the suggestions were
1. a light armor build with 2 stamina sets and no shields
2. run away
3. I found a way to counter it but i wont share it. Lol at this one.
So you are basically both clueless and full of sh*t.
And no im not one of those easy mode zerglings. Usually those defending crap like that are the zerglings getting rekt whenever they dont have crap like that to rely on. You defend it, so makes me wonder who is the zergling here.
And no i dont die to a potato spamming light attack 1v1. Problem is they are not found in 1v1 situations so you are basically clueless, full of sh*t and out of touch with reality.
Glad that you admitted that you use shielbreaker tho. You basically admitted that you dont really give a sh*t about balance but you just like easy kills to cover ur lack of skill.
Im full of ***? Dude im done talking with you, go make another thread now and cry to nerf something because you are dieing.
I DONT have to share my ways to counter anything. Learn by yourself.
And yes, I do use SB in certain situations, yet not the way you think i do. Already explained how and its legit, the set works for such pourpose. Dont like it? ITS YOUR *** problem, the set is in the game.
and to your solutions, Im laughting at you for having to look in forums for a solution instead of thinking by yourself and being able to figure out how to counter it. Who is clueless?? LOL
Good try on thinking you can make me look like an ignorant, but in the end its you that turns out aggressive, crying and searching for someone else to tell you what to do.
I would tell you this, you either go back to your zerg or stop attempting to 1vX and come here and cry because "multiple" people "are" killing you.
And yes "multiple" and "are", like that because plenty of time you mag sorcs crying that 1 single person can burn your shields in 2 seconds... Give me a break, Dorrino, my self and many others explained how wrong you guys are.
Im not clueless or full of ***, you are. Cry more snowflake.
Haha, I bet a lot more ppl are laughing at you than at him. So you have the counter to shieldbreaker (not ultra hard to counter*) but you refuse to share it? Troll some more sorc hater
*imo - had to add that b4 I get jumped by everyoneEdited by WreckfulAbandon on September 13, 2017 8:15PMPC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP3 -
Devilhand✭✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »
This thread/discussion was, is and will be a "Im a mag sorc that runs glasscannon builds, and im dieng to Shieldbreaker. NERF IT". Even Lilith gived up answering back, because in the end you all know you are the ones that are wrong, because you dont want to adapt.
Nah, this thread like every other sorc thread is full of clueless people like you when it comes to sorcs and still pretending to be experts.
Whos the clueless? We are? because we defend a SET bonus over a WHOLE class that overperforms since launch? Give me a break.
You cant see under your nose.
Imagine SB gets nerf, whats next? Knigh slayer? Torugs with oblivion? So you guys can roam cyrodil and never expect to die, IF you are such a great player you call your self to be.
I have at least 1 of each class, fully lvled and geared. Run solo 95% of the time and although lately 1vXing has become more difficult, due to the massive zergs (Cant say im wrong with that...), im not complaining because in the end i know i will die to +10 people.
On the other hand, you guys complaining about 1 set bonus and refusing to find a way to counter it. And, yes, there are ways to nullfil it.
Mag sorc is a noob friendly class, fast fingers with a good latency and FPS, and you can be unkillable. What other class can do that? You have the sustain, the mobility, the damage, and best defence in game. And yet you are complaining for 1, 5 piece set bonus?
And as Dorrino said, there are plenty of abilities/skills that are "shield breakers" against dodge, yet I am not complaining because its part of the game.
There are multiple skills/abilities that BREAK cloak (skill DOESNT work properly), and yet im not complaining.
Right now if you cant deal against a stam NB as a magicka class then you have problems. There are SO SO many counters that makes their class defence mechanism useless. Yet, I am not complaining in forums.
What is annoying is the fact you people cry about one set, a set that has been in the game for 2 years? because you dont know how to deal with it. But yet, dont realize the problem is not the set, its shield stacking and being a glasscannon at same time.
Lastly, its pvp you have to expect to die. There will always someone that can kill you, deal with it and stop being an snowflake.
Yes you are clueless because you defend a set that is a hardcounter to an entire class. If you actually had a clue about how you achieve a balanced and good PVP you would ask for specific nerfs to the root of the problem which is shieldstacking. Not advocating for a set that removes skill from the game.
You dont care about balance or that sorc is OP. You just like ur easy kills and u dont want to lose that. And yes, oblivion, knight slayer and all that sh*t fall to the same category.
You are playing solo and u are wondering why its incredibly difficult to do it lately. Thats because of trash mechanics, sets and abilities like shieldbreaker, oblivion dmg, soul assaults, undodgeable birds etc. The list is endless. They remove skill from the game. If you cant outplay them then it just boils down to numbers and u end up with that zergy skilless PVP you have today. Thats how it works. First get a clue about what skilled gameplay is and then you can tell people to L2P.
And the funny thing is that you are missing the entire point. I dont need to deal with it. Its not about dying. Thats not even the point. So your attempt to be the smartass is a fail. The point is how you die. If i die because i got outplayed or i did my best and still died well ok. Fair game. I tried and failed. But when i die because i got screwed by stupid mechanics and not because i got outplayed then yes i have a problem. When you die to a complete potato that has no clue about what he is doing and he just spams left click then u have an issue.
Dude, you are just funny. You start saying im clueless when i mentioned many times things you enlight to be your own idea. LOL
LEARN TO READ, and as a matter of fact L2P to. YOU, and not ME, is complaining about 1 single 5 bonus set piece that using it means to trade any other, and btw better 5 piece set, for a work against certain target set.
You are probably one of those easy mode zerglings that plays a sorc and cries when you die. If you die to a noob spamming Light attacks at you for 10-15 seconds then you deserve it. L2P
The set is part of the game, and if you died to it, well suck it up, live with it and learn to counter it. If not, stop crying in here.
No, you are clueless because you are saying that you are playing solo and its difficult to do it lately, and at the same time you are defending a bunch of trash mechanics that remove skill from the game.
You are clueless because you tell people to L2P while defending sets with zero player skill involved.
Everyone asked for ways to counter it. So far the suggestions were
1. a light armor build with 2 stamina sets and no shields
2. run away
3. I found a way to counter it but i wont share it. Lol at this one.
So you are basically both clueless and full of sh*t.
And no im not one of those easy mode zerglings. Usually those defending crap like that are the zerglings getting rekt whenever they dont have crap like that to rely on. You defend it, so makes me wonder who is the zergling here.
And no i dont die to a potato spamming light attack 1v1. Problem is they are not found in 1v1 situations so you are basically clueless, full of sh*t and out of touch with reality.
Glad that you admitted that you use shielbreaker tho. You basically admitted that you dont really give a sh*t about balance but you just like easy kills to cover ur lack of skill.
Im full of ***? Dude im done talking with you, go make another thread now and cry to nerf something because you are dieing.
I DONT have to share my ways to counter anything. Learn by yourself.
And yes, I do use SB in certain situations, yet not the way you think i do. Already explained how and its legit, the set works for such pourpose. Dont like it? ITS YOUR *** problem, the set is in the game.
and to your solutions, Im laughting at you for having to look in forums for a solution instead of thinking by yourself and being able to figure out how to counter it. Who is clueless?? LOL
Good try on thinking you can make me look like an ignorant, but in the end its you that turns out aggressive, crying and searching for someone else to tell you what to do.
I would tell you this, you either go back to your zerg or stop attempting to 1vX and come here and cry because "multiple" people "are" killing you.
And yes "multiple" and "are", like that because plenty of time you mag sorcs crying that 1 single person can burn your shields in 2 seconds... Give me a break, Dorrino, my self and many others explained how wrong you guys are.
Im not clueless or full of ***, you are. Cry more snowflake.
Haha, I bet a lot more ppl are laughing at you than at him. So you have the counter to shieldbreaker (not ultra hard to counter*) but you refuse to share it? Troll some more sorc hater
*imo - had to add that b4 I get jumped by everyone
Why do i have to share it? LOL
Its your problem, not mine.
And sorc hater? I do have a sorc, yet im not crying like you guys with complete abscense of knowledge or imagination, and specting someone else giving you the solution to your problems. Not going to happen.1 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »
This thread/discussion was, is and will be a "Im a mag sorc that runs glasscannon builds, and im dieng to Shieldbreaker. NERF IT". Even Lilith gived up answering back, because in the end you all know you are the ones that are wrong, because you dont want to adapt.
Nah, this thread like every other sorc thread is full of clueless people like you when it comes to sorcs and still pretending to be experts.
Whos the clueless? We are? because we defend a SET bonus over a WHOLE class that overperforms since launch? Give me a break.
You cant see under your nose.
Imagine SB gets nerf, whats next? Knigh slayer? Torugs with oblivion? So you guys can roam cyrodil and never expect to die, IF you are such a great player you call your self to be.
I have at least 1 of each class, fully lvled and geared. Run solo 95% of the time and although lately 1vXing has become more difficult, due to the massive zergs (Cant say im wrong with that...), im not complaining because in the end i know i will die to +10 people.
On the other hand, you guys complaining about 1 set bonus and refusing to find a way to counter it. And, yes, there are ways to nullfil it.
Mag sorc is a noob friendly class, fast fingers with a good latency and FPS, and you can be unkillable. What other class can do that? You have the sustain, the mobility, the damage, and best defence in game. And yet you are complaining for 1, 5 piece set bonus?
And as Dorrino said, there are plenty of abilities/skills that are "shield breakers" against dodge, yet I am not complaining because its part of the game.
There are multiple skills/abilities that BREAK cloak (skill DOESNT work properly), and yet im not complaining.
Right now if you cant deal against a stam NB as a magicka class then you have problems. There are SO SO many counters that makes their class defence mechanism useless. Yet, I am not complaining in forums.
What is annoying is the fact you people cry about one set, a set that has been in the game for 2 years? because you dont know how to deal with it. But yet, dont realize the problem is not the set, its shield stacking and being a glasscannon at same time.
Lastly, its pvp you have to expect to die. There will always someone that can kill you, deal with it and stop being an snowflake.
Yes you are clueless because you defend a set that is a hardcounter to an entire class. If you actually had a clue about how you achieve a balanced and good PVP you would ask for specific nerfs to the root of the problem which is shieldstacking. Not advocating for a set that removes skill from the game.
You dont care about balance or that sorc is OP. You just like ur easy kills and u dont want to lose that. And yes, oblivion, knight slayer and all that sh*t fall to the same category.
You are playing solo and u are wondering why its incredibly difficult to do it lately. Thats because of trash mechanics, sets and abilities like shieldbreaker, oblivion dmg, soul assaults, undodgeable birds etc. The list is endless. They remove skill from the game. If you cant outplay them then it just boils down to numbers and u end up with that zergy skilless PVP you have today. Thats how it works. First get a clue about what skilled gameplay is and then you can tell people to L2P.
And the funny thing is that you are missing the entire point. I dont need to deal with it. Its not about dying. Thats not even the point. So your attempt to be the smartass is a fail. The point is how you die. If i die because i got outplayed or i did my best and still died well ok. Fair game. I tried and failed. But when i die because i got screwed by stupid mechanics and not because i got outplayed then yes i have a problem. When you die to a complete potato that has no clue about what he is doing and he just spams left click then u have an issue.
Dude, you are just funny. You start saying im clueless when i mentioned many times things you enlight to be your own idea. LOL
LEARN TO READ, and as a matter of fact L2P to. YOU, and not ME, is complaining about 1 single 5 bonus set piece that using it means to trade any other, and btw better 5 piece set, for a work against certain target set.
You are probably one of those easy mode zerglings that plays a sorc and cries when you die. If you die to a noob spamming Light attacks at you for 10-15 seconds then you deserve it. L2P
The set is part of the game, and if you died to it, well suck it up, live with it and learn to counter it. If not, stop crying in here.
No, you are clueless because you are saying that you are playing solo and its difficult to do it lately, and at the same time you are defending a bunch of trash mechanics that remove skill from the game.
You are clueless because you tell people to L2P while defending sets with zero player skill involved.
Everyone asked for ways to counter it. So far the suggestions were
1. a light armor build with 2 stamina sets and no shields
2. run away
3. I found a way to counter it but i wont share it. Lol at this one.
So you are basically both clueless and full of sh*t.
And no im not one of those easy mode zerglings. Usually those defending crap like that are the zerglings getting rekt whenever they dont have crap like that to rely on. You defend it, so makes me wonder who is the zergling here.
And no i dont die to a potato spamming light attack 1v1. Problem is they are not found in 1v1 situations so you are basically clueless, full of sh*t and out of touch with reality.
Glad that you admitted that you use shielbreaker tho. You basically admitted that you dont really give a sh*t about balance but you just like easy kills to cover ur lack of skill.
Im full of ***? Dude im done talking with you, go make another thread now and cry to nerf something because you are dieing.
I DONT have to share my ways to counter anything. Learn by yourself.
And yes, I do use SB in certain situations, yet not the way you think i do. Already explained how and its legit, the set works for such pourpose. Dont like it? ITS YOUR *** problem, the set is in the game.
and to your solutions, Im laughting at you for having to look in forums for a solution instead of thinking by yourself and being able to figure out how to counter it. Who is clueless?? LOL
Good try on thinking you can make me look like an ignorant, but in the end its you that turns out aggressive, crying and searching for someone else to tell you what to do.
I would tell you this, you either go back to your zerg or stop attempting to 1vX and come here and cry because "multiple" people "are" killing you.
And yes "multiple" and "are", like that because plenty of time you mag sorcs crying that 1 single person can burn your shields in 2 seconds... Give me a break, Dorrino, my self and many others explained how wrong you guys are.
Im not clueless or full of ***, you are. Cry more snowflake.
Haha, I bet a lot more ppl are laughing at you than at him. So you have the counter to shieldbreaker (not ultra hard to counter*) but you refuse to share it? Troll some more sorc hater
*imo - had to add that b4 I get jumped by everyone
Why do i have to share it? LOL
Its your problem, not mine.
And sorc hater? I do have a sorc, yet im not crying like you guys with complete abscense of knowledge or imagination, and specting someone else giving you the solution to your problems. Not going to happen.
I don't need you to share anything. I'm just pointing out that continuously stating that you have a counter and consistently refusing to divulge it is bad form. How are you gonna deny being a sorc hater when you are getting so livid on the subject and generalizing about "you sorcs?" I even said SB is not impossible to counter. Selective LoS to heal/burst is the counter to SB. As a sorc if you can LoS a ranged build you should be able to kill them.
If they are in heavy and S&B, honestly, I dunno what the counter is then. Of course all these situations are assuming the SB user is a competent player. An inexperienced player is going to drop quickly with or without SB.
PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP0 -
Devilhand✭✭✭
A % dmg increase? workable. I can't see Zos giving 50% They would probably make it on par with the 5-piece from spinners/spriggarns.. What does that give nowadays? 6%? Yeah, I know - it only works on shields.. but then there are those avoiding spinners cos it doesn't work on shields. Can't see anyone using it at 6% though.
Problem with that though is scalability if having a large %. It could make it a LOT easier to break through shields 1v1 - but what defences would a sorc then have when attacked by multiple enemies.. ? They are already poor compared to other classes in that situation.
This is the overall problem with shields.. Can't balance them for both single and multiple enemies at the same time with their current mechanic. And with the class that has to rely on them.
The pet talk was about trying to come up with a way for a sorc to survive *without* having to rely on shields and illustrating the lack of heals when trying to come up with a build to do just that. I use the matriarch - and yes, I can easily survive vs a single shieldbreaker spammer.
The problem I have is when engaging with, say 2-3 guys thinking "I may be able to drop one quick - can maybe try 2-3 bursts then will have to get away".. and being confident that you can last so long before the pressure mounts.. having some CC to slow that, and a resto ult in case it gets nasty.
But if SB is in there - you have no chance. You gotta stop the attack and instantly go on the defensive.. they then all go on the offensive - and not only can you not outshield/dodge the damage anymore, you can't even fit in cd to throw in a pet-heal.
It's just THAT much of a gamechanger.
There often isn't even time to get to the closest rock. Yeah, I know its an outnumbered situation - but its one where it screws up your judgement.. It makes it like you don't know how to play/judge engagements anymore. I don't mind those incidents happening simply because I ran across skilled players who reacted well - but I do mind when it happens jut from someone mashing left-click.
Hmm... 6% from resistances point of view right?
Well,
1) Penetration cap is around 18k (at least for Npc's in trials, so i guess should be that.)
Spriggan/Spinners gives 3450 pen (gold), thats 19,2% of the cap. It actually gives more penetration then a Gold 2h sharpened weapon (2752 pen).
2) Shield CANT be crit, and DONT use any resistances, hence dmg is just the flat value you get on tooltip cut by half (Cyrodil).
Considering this, Spriggan/Spinners has the advantage that can CRIT with the cummulative resistance penetration.
If you change Shieldbreaker to increase the BASE damage of abilities to shields, it has to be far more then 6% (which is nothing). For instance if a Surprise attack tooltip says 10k, it will hit shields for 5k correct? (Considering the NB dont have any points into shatering blows, and the sorcs no points on % inc dmg reduction), Then if shieldbreaker increase shield damage by 50% then, the Surprise attack will hit for 7,5k.
Which, by any chance is TO MUCH, since it can crit for 10k on unshielded enemies.
Is it clear enough?
0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
A % dmg increase? workable. I can't see Zos giving 50% They would probably make it on par with the 5-piece from spinners/spriggarns.. What does that give nowadays? 6%? Yeah, I know - it only works on shields.. but then there are those avoiding spinners cos it doesn't work on shields. Can't see anyone using it at 6% though.
Problem with that though is scalability if having a large %. It could make it a LOT easier to break through shields 1v1 - but what defences would a sorc then have when attacked by multiple enemies.. ? They are already poor compared to other classes in that situation.
This is the overall problem with shields.. Can't balance them for both single and multiple enemies at the same time with their current mechanic. And with the class that has to rely on them.
The pet talk was about trying to come up with a way for a sorc to survive *without* having to rely on shields and illustrating the lack of heals when trying to come up with a build to do just that. I use the matriarch - and yes, I can easily survive vs a single shieldbreaker spammer.
The problem I have is when engaging with, say 2-3 guys thinking "I may be able to drop one quick - can maybe try 2-3 bursts then will have to get away".. and being confident that you can last so long before the pressure mounts.. having some CC to slow that, and a resto ult in case it gets nasty.
But if SB is in there - you have no chance. You gotta stop the attack and instantly go on the defensive.. they then all go on the offensive - and not only can you not outshield/dodge the damage anymore, you can't even fit in cd to throw in a pet-heal.
It's just THAT much of a gamechanger.
There often isn't even time to get to the closest rock. Yeah, I know its an outnumbered situation - but its one where it screws up your judgement.. It makes it like you don't know how to play/judge engagements anymore. I don't mind those incidents happening simply because I ran across skilled players who reacted well - but I do mind when it happens jut from someone mashing left-click.
Hmm... 6% from resistances point of view right?
Well,
1) Penetration cap is around 18k (at least for Npc's in trials, so i guess should be that.)
Spriggan/Spinners gives 3450 pen (gold), thats 19,2% of the cap. It actually gives more penetration then a Gold 2h sharpened weapon (2752 pen).
2) Shield CANT be crit, and DONT use any resistances, hence dmg is just the flat value you get on tooltip cut by half (Cyrodil).
Considering this, Spriggan/Spinners has the advantage that can CRIT with the cummulative resistance penetration.
If you change Shieldbreaker to increase the BASE damage of abilities to shields, it has to be far more then 6% (which is nothing). For instance if a Surprise attack tooltip says 10k, it will hit shields for 5k correct? (Considering the NB dont have any points into shatering blows, and the sorcs no points on % inc dmg reduction), Then if shieldbreaker increase shield damage by 50% then, the Surprise attack will hit for 7,5k.
Which, by any chance is TO MUCH, since it can crit for 10k on unshielded enemies.
Is it clear enough?
Hey! I'm just stating the kind of balance that zos are likely to come up with, not what I think it should be.
I don't really see any point in working out/arguing about what it should be when it probably won't be implemented in the first place, and if it is, zos will set it to whatever they decide.Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I agree it requires no skill. But as if spamming shields requires any skill beyond mashing one button. Applying mark doesn't require skill either, nor do a lot of other things. That shouldn't be the deciding factor for wether something is okay or not. Let me get this straight. When your specific build gets hard countered, it will always feel overly powerful, because there is not a lot you can do against it. That is the purpose of a hard counter. Let me say this. Do I like SB? No. Do I use it? No. Do I understand why it is in the game? Yes. Because strong mechanics simply need a counter. This means being at a disadvantage and having a bigger chance of losing than winning.Joy_Division wrote: »This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
Because the counter is a gimmick gear set that does not require any skill or tactics beyond mashing the left mouse button.
And Power of the Light is not a counter for cloak. The yellow/green glow does not follow the NB around, it stays in the place where cloak was used.
I get that when 2 or more people are spamming SB with bow LA you feel terrible. I really do. I feel the same when a magnb marks me and deletes me with soul assault at the same time. Or cliffracer spam when you are revealed. But in a 1v1 you guys should stop acting that you have a 0% chance against SB. Especially in CP campaign. I simply don't buy it. Like I said, using the environment to your advantage and ditching that false sense of pride will get you quite far. And yes, sometimes you will have to go on the defensive. I know this may sound alien to some sorcs here but it is reality for every other class as well.
And power of the light IS a counter against cloak. Not a hard counter, but when it pops it will pull you out of cloak. Same as curse. It will allow you to keep track of the NB. I tag NBs all the time with it on my templar healer.
Edited by Koensol on September 14, 2017 6:08AM1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
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Which is a personal problem. Not a balance problem.
Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.
true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics
hehe ya0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drummerx04 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Drummerx04 wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »This set is not a proc, Proc is an acronym for a programmed random occurrence that refers to a weapon, item or ability activating with the "Chance on Hit" or "Chance on Use" effect (an ability or a spell).
Here's my counter: The "Chance on Hit" to proc 2k oblivion damage is 100% when the target has a shield and 0% otherwise and thus still falls under the definition of "Programmed random occurrence"
I guess we both learned something new today.
There is nothing chance about it. If there is a damage sheild, you get damage, if there is not, you don't. There is no more chance in that then you pressing the 1 button to damage or not. This is really not that hard to understand.
Okay, this should be fun. 100% is a perfectly valid chance for a random occurrence.
If you can't accept that 100% is a valid value here, then I now claim that the "chance on hit" for shieldbreaker on shielded targets is actually 99.99999999%. Now by your definition of "proc effect" shieldbreaker is indeed random, since there is now a chance of failure. However, now you have differentiated two practically equivalent values in a definition of "proc" which makes your argument asinine at best.
I could probably write a proof by contradiction based on induction to generate an equivalence between our definitions of random (essentially 99.99999... = 100), but I think we can agree that such an exercise really isn't worth either of our times.
This is really not that hard to understand. Shieldbreaker is a proc set. Get over it.
Haha this was beautiful. I love when people get all snarky then get owned. *insert rock slow clap gif here2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Getting nuttier by the minute, you two.
YOU are advertising a defense-bypassing set AND crying how impenetrable shields are. While sorcs die left and right in Cyro. L2P at its best.
I can't hit with projectiles through dodge. I demand Dodgebreaker to counter all those 1vX dodgestackers. And I bet you are already sweating wildly upon that thought.
And for the record: I am concerned about SB spammers hiding in zergs. Reading comprehension... rare these days.
Oh, i get it... Once again, like i havent mentioned before, you expecting to 1vX and dont expecting to die. Poor soul.
You already have one, called Curse and mage wrath.
Be gone now.
And you have one, Shattering CP and weapon damage.
Man, you just reek of bias. Everyone can see from your post above that you're one of those dudes hiding in zergs, spamming SB light attacks and then teabagging, because you're happy ZOS hold your hand and conceal your terrible play. Can't even kill sorcs... xD
Yeah, gtfo, zergling.1 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭This joke of a thread still going?
Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.
If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.
This has already been adressed.
If your answer is "just run away"... MagDK OP? Just run away. Vicious Death bomb OP? Just run away. Lag OP? Just run away from the keep.
Unfortunately, if you wanna contribute to your alliance and don't just wanna be a tryhard posting 1vX vids against potatoes, there are plenty fights you have to take. And those SB dudes will chase you down. With a zerg squad they can hide in.
Getting 'zerged' down happens to everyone but only one class has the best tools to escape this and usually it takes another streaking sorc to chase down and slow down a fleeing streaking sorc.
As for one on one or smallscale they are put ''on defensive briefly' by Shieldbreaker until they streak away heal up and streak right back into battle with a new shield stack and full health bar.
You guys are not fooling anyone with your BS. You really think all the players that are not sorcs but experience sorcs fighting on the battlefield do not realize how OP and easy mode the class is?
Edited by Sureshawt on September 14, 2017 3:49PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No normal sorc can sit still and "outheal" any incoming dmg. Stop stating ur bs as facts.
Thank god there's a written record here. CAN YOU READ? Then read what I actually posted, what it was in reply to, and start over. I have no doubt you will still get it wrong.Any competent player will chew through ur 19k shields faster than u can cast them.
Stop posting lies. Or perhaps you will add some actual examples that make sense instead of crapola like the above?No you didnt post a single viable sorc option without shields. You posted a light armor build with 2 stamina sets. Thats not viable. Thats the exact opposite. Any competent player will smoke you in 5 seconds and even full potatoes will kill you in 1vX.
1. Wrong. More hot air. 2. You think a set with arcane jewelry and 2000 magicka regeneration is a "stamina set?" LOL Or are you just slanting your argument? Will go with the latter. Fail. It's also not fair to call a set that gives you major protection and expedition AT THE SAME TIME while sprinting a "stamina set" either.
But OK, here's the playstyle. Sprint and streak through the midfield of the team casting purge every 5 or so seconds, spamming mutagen. Streak and deal triggers frags, which is cast on called targets or overextended enemies. It's a team build, not a gank or 1vx build. But I will assure you it is a very viable, if unconventional sorc build that teammates are glad to have around. And to preempt some "other class does it better" bs, what other class has streak? What other class has deal/exchange? What other class has defensive rune? what other class has an easily triggered instacast like frags that can be almost all your offense and free up the rest of the bars for defense and support?
I'll be the first to admit I haven't mastered this game's pvp yet. In 17 years of MMO pvp, most of what I've mastered are games with actual aim in three axes OR MMOs with actual asset control, where my guild OWNS a limited asset and derives significant benefits from it. ESO is kiddy stuff and mostly a dress up dolly game in comparison... sticky targeting? LOL. All the same, I still don't like nerfherders because they end up ruining games.That build also cant kill anything with half a brain. A light armor build to be viable without shields needs some serious mitigation/healing and/or the ability to dodge. Sorcs dont have that and ur build most definitely dont have that.
O you think major protection whenever the sprint key is being held down is not "serious" mitigation? Protip... you don't even have to be moving to get the mitigation.And no, mutagen and blessing of restoration cannot replace healing ward.
"Hey herp, how do I counter SB?"
"I don't know, derp, maybe add another damage shield?"
You want to whine about people switching gear to "hunt" you. Yet -you- don't want to switch your own gear to a counter, don't want to slot heals that would actually effectively -counter- SB.And please tell me more how a 4k heal attached to an ability with a cast time is the best selfheal in the game.
How in the F are you only getting 4k on avg out of deal/exchange? Or are you just slanting and making stuff up again? The reason it is the best self-heal is that it returns resources to boot, that's why it has a cast time, it would be absurdly OP without one. As it is it's just... the best self heal in the game.The only burst heal available to sorcs is the pet
So we are back to discounting blessing/combat prayer and mutagen. Those -are- available to sorcs... in addition to the best self heal in the game, dark deal/exchange.It just shows someone playing in zergs, getting carried by others and thinking he is the one doing the job. Or you are playing solo but you've set the bar so low to the point where killing potatoes in 1v1 is enough.
Babbling river of irrelevant BS. Why am I not surprised? You are predictableYou dont introduce a set that hardcounters that.
Guess what, when there is no shield up, SB does no-thing. That's not a hard counter "to the class" or to any number of sorc builds/gear setups. Here's another thought, how about equipping an ice staff and try -blocking- some hits when not using shield due to SB being around? Guess that would entail too much work.So please tell me again how the hell did shieldbreaker solved the shieldstacking issue when every single day a new nerf sorc thread pops.
I don't want sorcs nerfed, more irrelevant slant? Why yes it is. The set has been in for a long time, yet people still whine about sorcs? Hmmm, sounds like sorcs are doing pretty well then, despite SB.
Pieratsos Exposed.
And there are even more/better answers/justifications to your non sense, so make us all a favor and stop crying in forums.
If you consider that build a viable competitive build then you are even more clueless than i thought u were.
Funny thing is that the one who suggested the build literally said that its not viable playing solo. And the playstyle is to streak through people spamming purges and heals? So basically its a support build. Ironically speaking if i were to play in groups then shieldbreaker is not an issue, cause i have other people healing me. And at the same time my build can actually kill people on top of just spamming streak and its not even designed for group play which is what this build is supposed to be.
So to wrap this up, the viable sorc build without shields that doesnt have a problem with sb is a support sorc build only for group play (in which ironically sb isnt a problem anw) that cant kill anything and its inferior to normal sorc builds even at what its supposed to be good at.
Im definitely exposed. Lmao.5 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@buttaface
You admit that you havent mastered the game and at the same time you flat out call a lie the fact that people can get throught those shields. If you cant do it, it doesnt mean its a lie. But with the build u are playing im not surprised that you cant go through shields. Thats why i told you it cant kill anything with half a brain. Go back and read comments explaining how to go through shields. Feel free to actually watch videos of good PVP players killing sorcs. But no, its not a lie.
Dark deal/exchange isnt the best self heal in the game. Period. Self heal means healing urself. Its the best sustain ability in the game. Healing its not even its primary function. If you try to rely on that as a self heal you are going to have a bad time. But im not surprised that you dont know that considering how you play.
as far your build is concerned you have to distinguish the difference between an actual competitive build and a fun build. You literally admitted that its not viable playing solo so no, ur build isnt a viable sorc build that doesnt rely on shields. Its a fun support build only for groups. Ironically speaking sb isnt even an issue in groups. and the reason why ur build doesnt rely on shields isnt because of ur build. Its because u are playing in groups and u can rely on other people. So your solution is basically start zerging?
You use 2 stamina sets. Period. They give stamina bonuses. The arcane jewellery doesnt make it a magicka set. and if i wanted major protection id use pirate skleleton. Here is ur pro tip. a set that isnt tied to a 5 piece stamina set and its up while you can actually fight.
Its clear that you havent mastered PVP, in fact you have A LOT to learn. Im sorry but ur build isnt a viable competitive sorc build. Its just a fun build. Unfortunately people have asked for actual competitive builds that doesnt rely on shields. Not start zerging. If i wanted to do that, id just join a ball group to have templars spamming heals on me and blow people to pieces with destro ults, negates roots and vicious death. No shields needed. No sb problem.Edited by pieratsos on September 14, 2017 6:43PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »This joke of a thread still going?
Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.
If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.
So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?
The counter for shieldbreaker is to not use damage shields. Simple and obvious.
Ah, so the counter to shieldbreaker is to die to everything else. Got it, my bad. Simple and obvious indeed. Every suggestion is more hilarious than the last one. Probably the next one will be "the counter to shieldbreaker is to reroll a different class".
You should reroll. Making mag sorcs look bad in here.
Says the guy who considers a mag sorc with stamina sets and no shields a competitive build.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Getting nuttier by the minute, you two.
YOU are advertising a defense-bypassing set AND crying how impenetrable shields are. While sorcs die left and right in Cyro. L2P at its best.
I can't hit with projectiles through dodge. I demand Dodgebreaker to counter all those 1vX dodgestackers. And I bet you are already sweating wildly upon that thought.
And for the record: I am concerned about SB spammers hiding in zergs. Reading comprehension... rare these days.
Oh, i get it... Once again, like i havent mentioned before, you expecting to 1vX and dont expecting to die. Poor soul.
You already have one, called Curse and mage wrath.
Be gone now.
No, we expect to die if we get outplayed and make mistakes. Not to clueless zerglings spamming left click. and thats the same for every single stupid skilless set and ability in this game. But im not surprised that you still dont get it even when it was explained to you.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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I agree it requires no skill. But as if spamming shields requires any skill beyond mashing one button. Applying mark doesn't require skill either, nor do a lot of other things. That shouldn't be the deciding factor for wether something is okay or not. Let me get this straight. When your specific build gets hard countered, it will always feel overly powerful, because there is not a lot you can do against it. That is the purpose of a hard counter. Let me say this. Do I like SB? No. Do I use it? No. Do I understand why it is in the game? Yes. Because strong mechanics simply need a counter. This means being at a disadvantage and having a bigger chance of losing than winning.Joy_Division wrote: »This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.
Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
Because the counter is a gimmick gear set that does not require any skill or tactics beyond mashing the left mouse button.
And Power of the Light is not a counter for cloak. The yellow/green glow does not follow the NB around, it stays in the place where cloak was used.
I get that when 2 or more people are spamming SB with bow LA you feel terrible. I really do. I feel the same when a magnb marks me and deletes me with soul assault at the same time. Or cliffracer spam when you are revealed. But in a 1v1 you guys should stop acting that you have a 0% chance against SB. Especially in CP campaign. I simply don't buy it. Like I said, using the environment to your advantage and ditching that false sense of pride will get you quite far. And yes, sometimes you will have to go on the defensive. I know this may sound alien to some sorcs here but it is reality for every other class as well.
And power of the light IS a counter against cloak. Not a hard counter, but when it pops it will pull you out of cloak. Same as curse. It will allow you to keep track of the NB. I tag NBs all the time with it on my templar healer.
You are creating a strawman. I never saidDo you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?
And I dont recall anyone disliking the Shieldbreaker set saying it either. So stop with the "you guys" and our "false sense of pride."
I acknowledge the need for hard counters, but those counters ought to consist more than wearing a set of gear and light attack spamming. Or alternatively, address the root of the problem and disallow shield stacking. Not have dubious mechanics countered by even worse mechanics.
That's all.Edited by Joy_Division on September 14, 2017 6:59PM1 -
Devilhand✭✭✭Getting nuttier by the minute, you two.
YOU are advertising a defense-bypassing set AND crying how impenetrable shields are. While sorcs die left and right in Cyro. L2P at its best.
I can't hit with projectiles through dodge. I demand Dodgebreaker to counter all those 1vX dodgestackers. And I bet you are already sweating wildly upon that thought.
And for the record: I am concerned about SB spammers hiding in zergs. Reading comprehension... rare these days.
Oh, i get it... Once again, like i havent mentioned before, you expecting to 1vX and dont expecting to die. Poor soul.
You already have one, called Curse and mage wrath.
Be gone now.
And you have one, Shattering CP and weapon damage.
Man, you just reek of bias. Everyone can see from your post above that you're one of those dudes hiding in zergs, spamming SB light attacks and then teabagging, because you're happy ZOS hold your hand and conceal your terrible play. Can't even kill sorcs... xD
Yeah, gtfo, zergling.
Nope. And I believe many people can give their word here that i am not. Yet, who cares what you say? You are th eone crying and unable to counter 1 set in the game.
And do you realize you answer everything I say with just ***, and turning the wheel back to me saying im the zergling? LOL
Yep, because Saterring blows is enough... 25% IF i get 100 points on it, which mean i will do no damage agaisnt other player for stacking that *** to be even considered to use. And weapon damage? dude, not even with 5k weapon damage you can burst the 3 shields staking, before the sorc heals up if he is competent enough.
So, just go away, get in a group with all the cry babies here and hug each other. That set is part of the game and will be there for long long time, adapt or die.
Youre just another Zergling sorc, spamming curse and pursuing soloers around with full raids.
Not answering to your trash any more. Waste of time.1 -
Devilhand✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »This joke of a thread still going?
Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.
If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.
So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?
The counter for shieldbreaker is to not use damage shields. Simple and obvious.
Ah, so the counter to shieldbreaker is to die to everything else. Got it, my bad. Simple and obvious indeed. Every suggestion is more hilarious than the last one. Probably the next one will be "the counter to shieldbreaker is to reroll a different class".
You should reroll. Making mag sorcs look bad in here.
Says the guy who considers a mag sorc with stamina sets and no shields a competitive build.
LOL what?
Did i post that build?
NOPE
Just keep showing to everyone here how wrong and bad you are.
Just stop embarrasing your self.
This is not a balance problem, is a personal problem. Not been able to counter 1 set.. QQ more, maybe you will get double hardened ward after it expires.
Unbelivable0