Shieldbreaker escaped proc set nerfs

Lord-Otto

Devilhand, I said this before, but by now I'm used to having to repeat myself slowly for you.
Claiming sorc has been OP since launch just shows how utterly ignorant and non-constructive you are. Because MagDK reign existed. VD bombblades reign. There was a time when there were ten magsorcs on the main campaign's leaderboard. So much for that.
Sorcs have been killed and are being killed quite easily in PvP, or is the leaderboard 90% magsorcs? Please don't be like Miat and assume your inadequacies are standard for everyone.

Devilhand

pieratsos wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

This thread/discussion was, is and will be a "Im a mag sorc that runs glasscannon builds, and im dieng to Shieldbreaker. NERF IT". Even Lilith gived up answering back, because in the end you all know you are the ones that are wrong, because you dont want to adapt.

Nah, this thread like every other sorc thread is full of clueless people like you when it comes to sorcs and still pretending to be experts.

Whos the clueless? We are? because we defend a SET bonus over a WHOLE class that overperforms since launch? Give me a break.
You cant see under your nose.

Imagine SB gets nerf, whats next? Knigh slayer? Torugs with oblivion? So you guys can roam cyrodil and never expect to die, IF you are such a great player you call your self to be.

I have at least 1 of each class, fully lvled and geared. Run solo 95% of the time and although lately 1vXing has become more difficult, due to the massive zergs (Cant say im wrong with that...), im not complaining because in the end i know i will die to +10 people.
On the other hand, you guys complaining about 1 set bonus and refusing to find a way to counter it. And, yes, there are ways to nullfil it.
Mag sorc is a noob friendly class, fast fingers with a good latency and FPS, and you can be unkillable. What other class can do that? You have the sustain, the mobility, the damage, and best defence in game. And yet you are complaining for 1, 5 piece set bonus?

And as Dorrino said, there are plenty of abilities/skills that are "shield breakers" against dodge, yet I am not complaining because its part of the game.
There are multiple skills/abilities that BREAK cloak (skill DOESNT work properly), and yet im not complaining.

Right now if you cant deal against a stam NB as a magicka class then you have problems. There are SO SO many counters that makes their class defence mechanism useless. Yet, I am not complaining in forums.

What is annoying is the fact you people cry about one set, a set that has been in the game for 2 years? because you dont know how to deal with it. But yet, dont realize the problem is not the set, its shield stacking and being a glasscannon at same time.

Lastly, its pvp you have to expect to die. There will always someone that can kill you, deal with it and stop being an snowflake.

Yes you are clueless because you defend a set that is a hardcounter to an entire class. If you actually had a clue about how you achieve a balanced and good PVP you would ask for specific nerfs to the root of the problem which is shieldstacking. Not advocating for a set that removes skill from the game.

You dont care about balance or that sorc is OP. You just like ur easy kills and u dont want to lose that. And yes, oblivion, knight slayer and all that sh*t fall to the same category.

You are playing solo and u are wondering why its incredibly difficult to do it lately. Thats because of trash mechanics, sets and abilities like shieldbreaker, oblivion dmg, soul assaults, undodgeable birds etc. The list is endless. They remove skill from the game. If you cant outplay them then it just boils down to numbers and u end up with that zergy skilless PVP you have today. Thats how it works. First get a clue about what skilled gameplay is and then you can tell people to L2P.

And the funny thing is that you are missing the entire point. I dont need to deal with it. Its not about dying. Thats not even the point. So your attempt to be the smartass is a fail. The point is how you die. If i die because i got outplayed or i did my best and still died well ok. Fair game. I tried and failed. But when i die because i got screwed by stupid mechanics and not because i got outplayed then yes i have a problem. When you die to a complete potato that has no clue about what he is doing and he just spams left click then u have an issue.

Dude, you are just funny. You start saying im clueless when i mentioned many times things you enlight to be your own idea. LOL
LEARN TO READ, and as a matter of fact L2P to. YOU, and not ME, is complaining about 1 single 5 bonus set piece that using it means to trade any other, and btw better 5 piece set, for a work against certain targets.

You are probably one of those easy mode zerglings that plays a sorc and cries when you die. If you die to a noob spamming Light attacks at you for 10-15 seconds then you deserve it. L2P
The set is part of the game, and if you died to it, well suck it up, live with it and learn to counter it. If not, stop crying in here.

PD: And if you think im one of those noobs, well youre wrong. When i decide to wear SB (depending on what im facing more at that period of time. What an intelligent person would do), I just do my burst combo and when ever the sorc lives thru it i finish the las 2-3k health with it. FAIR.
Go back to your zerg, because you lack skills and knowledge son.

pieratsos

Sureshawt wrote: »

This joke of a thread still going?

Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.

If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.

So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?

pieratsos

Devilhand wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

This thread/discussion was, is and will be a "Im a mag sorc that runs glasscannon builds, and im dieng to Shieldbreaker. NERF IT". Even Lilith gived up answering back, because in the end you all know you are the ones that are wrong, because you dont want to adapt.

Nah, this thread like every other sorc thread is full of clueless people like you when it comes to sorcs and still pretending to be experts.

Whos the clueless? We are? because we defend a SET bonus over a WHOLE class that overperforms since launch? Give me a break.
You cant see under your nose.

Imagine SB gets nerf, whats next? Knigh slayer? Torugs with oblivion? So you guys can roam cyrodil and never expect to die, IF you are such a great player you call your self to be.

I have at least 1 of each class, fully lvled and geared. Run solo 95% of the time and although lately 1vXing has become more difficult, due to the massive zergs (Cant say im wrong with that...), im not complaining because in the end i know i will die to +10 people.
On the other hand, you guys complaining about 1 set bonus and refusing to find a way to counter it. And, yes, there are ways to nullfil it.
Mag sorc is a noob friendly class, fast fingers with a good latency and FPS, and you can be unkillable. What other class can do that? You have the sustain, the mobility, the damage, and best defence in game. And yet you are complaining for 1, 5 piece set bonus?

And as Dorrino said, there are plenty of abilities/skills that are "shield breakers" against dodge, yet I am not complaining because its part of the game.
There are multiple skills/abilities that BREAK cloak (skill DOESNT work properly), and yet im not complaining.

Right now if you cant deal against a stam NB as a magicka class then you have problems. There are SO SO many counters that makes their class defence mechanism useless. Yet, I am not complaining in forums.

What is annoying is the fact you people cry about one set, a set that has been in the game for 2 years? because you dont know how to deal with it. But yet, dont realize the problem is not the set, its shield stacking and being a glasscannon at same time.

Lastly, its pvp you have to expect to die. There will always someone that can kill you, deal with it and stop being an snowflake.

Yes you are clueless because you defend a set that is a hardcounter to an entire class. If you actually had a clue about how you achieve a balanced and good PVP you would ask for specific nerfs to the root of the problem which is shieldstacking. Not advocating for a set that removes skill from the game.

You dont care about balance or that sorc is OP. You just like ur easy kills and u dont want to lose that. And yes, oblivion, knight slayer and all that sh*t fall to the same category.

You are playing solo and u are wondering why its incredibly difficult to do it lately. Thats because of trash mechanics, sets and abilities like shieldbreaker, oblivion dmg, soul assaults, undodgeable birds etc. The list is endless. They remove skill from the game. If you cant outplay them then it just boils down to numbers and u end up with that zergy skilless PVP you have today. Thats how it works. First get a clue about what skilled gameplay is and then you can tell people to L2P.

And the funny thing is that you are missing the entire point. I dont need to deal with it. Its not about dying. Thats not even the point. So your attempt to be the smartass is a fail. The point is how you die. If i die because i got outplayed or i did my best and still died well ok. Fair game. I tried and failed. But when i die because i got screwed by stupid mechanics and not because i got outplayed then yes i have a problem. When you die to a complete potato that has no clue about what he is doing and he just spams left click then u have an issue.

Dude, you are just funny. You start saying im clueless when i mentioned many times things you enlight to be your own idea. LOL
LEARN TO READ, and as a matter of fact L2P to. YOU, and not ME, is complaining about 1 single 5 bonus set piece that using it means to trade any other, and btw better 5 piece set, for a work against certain target set.

You are probably one of those easy mode zerglings that plays a sorc and cries when you die. If you die to a noob spamming Light attacks at you for 10-15 seconds then you deserve it. L2P
The set is part of the game, and if you died to it, well suck it up, live with it and learn to counter it. If not, stop crying in here.

No, you are clueless because you are saying that you are playing solo and its difficult to do it lately, and at the same time you are defending a bunch of trash mechanics that remove skill from the game.

You are clueless because you tell people to L2P while defending sets with zero player skill involved.

Everyone asked for ways to counter it. So far the suggestions were

1. a light armor build with 2 stamina sets and no shields
2. run away
3. I found a way to counter it but i wont share it. Lol at this one.

So you are basically both clueless and full of sh*t.

And no im not one of those easy mode zerglings. Usually those defending crap like that are the zerglings getting rekt whenever they dont have crap like that to rely on. You defend it, so makes me wonder who is the zergling here.

And no i dont die to a potato spamming light attack 1v1. Problem is they are not found in 1v1 situations so you are basically clueless, full of sh*t and out of touch with reality.

Glad that you admitted that you use shielbreaker tho. You basically admitted that you dont really give a sh*t about balance but you just like easy kills to cover ur lack of skill.

Dorrino

@CyrusArya

Apologies accepted:)

I definitely agree with you that mag sorcs got their own problems.

The thing is any common battle situation gives magicka sorcs noticeably more room for error.

Any mistake is easily fixable, while counterburst is very easy to setup.

Basically the word that best describes magicka sorcs is - easy.

Even if this thread, people are so much used to this (rather unfortunate) state of magicka sorcs that given one guy actually pressuring them through their main defense they are immediately lost and can't find anything better to do than to complain to 'gods' to fix this atrocity:)

They don't take 'adapt' as an answer, because most likely they have been spoiled so much by the class mechanics - that they don't understand how it is even possible.

Like that guy that was genuinly surprised that a stamblade could adapt to wardens:)

Mechanics of mag sorc class, unfortunately, only promote rather low skill cap and superiority complex as the result.

If i had to play a mag sorc i'd apologize for each curse+frag+explosion in xv1. They, on the contrary, in their warped understanding of the game, consider it fair play:)

Yes at the high skill level play the spec is largely irrelevant. You're corrct there. Just like shieldbreaker though:)

But at that level heavy armor and mag sorcs still have it easier than the rest.

And only because of that both heavy and mag sorcs are op atm.

Same effectiveness, noticeably lower skill cap.

I hope now i'm clear on this subject.

clocksstoppe

pieratsos wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

This joke of a thread still going?

Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.

If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.

So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?

The counter for shieldbreaker is to not use damage shields. Simple and obvious.

Kram8ion

Dorrino wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

'cause you want that damage of a rolldodge glasscannon.

I'm running as tanky version of effective med armor as it gets.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

(^_-)
Eh... I dunno. 22k, you say? Maybe a health monster piece is involved. Maybe emp buff. Maybe heavy. But it is usually 24k, and they don't die easily.

2k more doesn't make a difference and i don't die easily at all:)

Kram8ion wrote: »

Well this thread is going to make shield breaker popular even if it's crappy

Shh! You!

How am i supposed to push sb meta if people like you give out the secret like this?!!

^_^

Lol I'm with you

pieratsos

clocksstoppe wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

This joke of a thread still going?

Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.

If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.

So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?

The counter for shieldbreaker is to not use damage shields. Simple and obvious.

Ah, so the counter to shieldbreaker is to die to everything else. Got it, my bad. Simple and obvious indeed. Every suggestion is more hilarious than the last one. Probably the next one will be "the counter to shieldbreaker is to reroll a different class".

pieratsos

Dorrino wrote: »

@CyrusArya

Apologies accepted:)

I definitely agree with you that mag sorcs got their own problems.

The thing is any common battle situation gives magicka sorcs noticeably more room for error.

Any mistake is easily fixable, while counterburst is very easy to setup.

Basically the word that best describes magicka sorcs is - easy.

Even if this thread, people are so much used to this (rather unfortunate) state of magicka sorcs then given one guy actually pressuring them through their main defense they are immediately lost and can't find anything better to do than to complain to 'gods' to fix this atrocity:)

They don't take 'adapt' as an answer, because most likely they have been spoiled so much by the class mechanics - that they don't understand how it is even possible.

Like that guy that was genuinly surprised that a stamblade could adapt to wardens:)

Mechanics of mag sorc class, unfortunately, only promote rather low skill cap and superiority complex as the result.

If i had to play a mag sorc i'd apologize for each curse+frag+explosion in xv1. They, on the contrary, in their warped understanding of the game, consider it fair play:)

Yes at the high skill level play the spec is largely irrelevant. You're corrct there. Just like shieldbreaker though:)

But at that level heavy armor and mag sorcs still have it easier than the rest.

And only because of that both heavy and mag sorcs are op atm.

Same effectiveness, noticeably lower skill cap.

I hope now i'm clear on this subject.

Actual sorcs that know wtf they are talking about literally suggested for shieldstacking to be removed. So much for them unwilling to adapt.

Shieldbreaker isnt about adapting. Its about a skilless mechanic that does nothing good for the game. And when you defend it, the only thing that you show is that you dont really give a damn about balance or good PVP so stop pretending like you do. The only thing that you do care about, is keeping ur easy kills.

Kram8ion

clocksstoppe wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Sureshawt wrote: »

This joke of a thread still going?

Against good sorcs shield breaker is NOT a hard counter at all. Well played sorcs will streak away and easily heal through the measly damage that shield breaker does. At best it puts pressure on sorcs and forces them to move away and go on defensive briefly.

If it is intended to be an actual hard counter to shields like say the long list of hard counters to stealth/invisibility (you know the ones that actually completely nullify the skill) then it needs a buff.

So you are saying that the counter to shieldbreaker is... wait for it... run away. Did you actually think before posting that?

The counter for shieldbreaker is to not use damage shields. Simple and obvious.

This one gets it

Dorrino

pieratsos wrote: »

Actual sorcs that know wtf they are talking about literally suggested for shieldstacking to be removed. So much for them unwilling to adapt.

Shieldbreaker isnt about adapting. Its about a skilless mechanic that does nothing good for the game. And when you defend it, the only thing that you show is that you dont really give a damn about balance or good PVP so stop pretending like you do. The only thing that you do care about, is keeping ur easy kills.

I'm the last person to be blamed with getting easy kills.

Unfortunately you're wrong. Any good sorc is capable to play against shieldbreaker-wielding opponents.

Easy to prove. I got good sorcs, you provide sb spammers. I bet 100k on the sorc or on a draw. You bet 100k on sb spammer. And let the strongest win.

NA server.

Lord-Otto

Dorrino wrote: »

@CyrusArya

Apologies accepted:)

I definitely agree with you that mag sorcs got their own problems.

The thing is any common battle situation gives magicka sorcs noticeably more room for error.

Any mistake is easily fixable, while counterburst is very easy to setup.

Basically the word that best describes magicka sorcs is - easy.

Even if this thread, people are so much used to this (rather unfortunate) state of magicka sorcs then given one guy actually pressuring them through their main defense they are immediately lost and can't find anything better to do than to complain to 'gods' to fix this atrocity:)

They don't take 'adapt' as an answer, because most likely they have been spoiled so much by the class mechanics - that they don't understand how it is even possible.

Like that guy that was genuinly surprised that a stamblade could adapt to wardens:)

Mechanics of mag sorc class, unfortunately, only promote rather low skill cap and superiority complex as the result.

If i had to play a mag sorc i'd apologize for each curse+frag+explosion in xv1. They, on the contrary, in their warped understanding of the game, consider it fair play:)

Yes at the high skill level play the spec is largely irrelevant. You're corrct there. Just like shieldbreaker though:)

But at that level heavy armor and mag sorcs still have it easier than the rest.

And only because of that both heavy and mag sorcs are op atm.

Same effectiveness, noticeably lower skill cap.

I hope now i'm clear on this subject.

Coming from the dude who creates add-ons to help with undesirable moves...
xD

I fail to see how a readily available burst with Spectral Bow and an unavoidable CC is more difficult than timing a Curse with a Frag. How dodging every five seconds (behind a rock) is more difficult than tracking your shields and decide when to stack and when not. How streaking and mining to fight melee is more difficult than spamming a gapcloser.

It is very clear YOU have an absolutely blurred and downright delusional view on classes and their combat behaviour.

And you're not alone. You are leading a chicken zoo of little cryhards who happily ramble this same thing over and over, not thinking for themselves, but rather copying other people's thoughts. It's even in this thread. And they can't do otherwise. They lack experience and skill. If the argument is that you can't get good enough on a non-sorc class and have to fall back to an even easier mechanic, you are just not as good as you think and should be soundly ignored.

Dorrino

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It is very clear YOU have an absolutely blurred and downright delusional view on classes and their combat behaviour.

Prove it, sweetheart.

@dorrino PC NA.

Post the results here afterwards, please.

buttaface

pieratsos wrote: »

No normal sorc can sit still and "outheal" any incoming dmg. Stop stating ur bs as facts.

Thank god there's a written record here. CAN YOU READ? Then read what I actually posted, what it was in reply to, and start over. I have no doubt you will still get it wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Any competent player will chew through ur 19k shields faster than u can cast them.

Stop posting lies. Or perhaps you will add some actual examples that make sense instead of crapola like the above?

pieratsos wrote: »

No you didnt post a single viable sorc option without shields. You posted a light armor build with 2 stamina sets. Thats not viable. Thats the exact opposite. Any competent player will smoke you in 5 seconds and even full potatoes will kill you in 1vX.

1. Wrong. More hot air. 2. You think a set with arcane jewelry and 2000 magicka regeneration is a "stamina set?" LOL Or are you just slanting your argument? Will go with the latter. Fail. It's also not fair to call a set that gives you major protection and expedition AT THE SAME TIME while sprinting a "stamina set" either.

But OK, here's the playstyle. Sprint and streak through the midfield of the team casting purge every 5 or so seconds, spamming mutagen. Streak and deal triggers frags, which is cast on called targets or overextended enemies. It's a team build, not a gank or 1vx build. But I will assure you it is a very viable, if unconventional sorc build that teammates are glad to have around. And to preempt some "other class does it better" bs, what other class has streak? What other class has deal/exchange? What other class has defensive rune? what other class has an easily triggered instacast like frags that can be almost all your offense and free up the rest of the bars for defense and support?

I'll be the first to admit I haven't mastered this game's pvp yet. In 17 years of MMO pvp, most of what I've mastered are games with actual aim in three axes OR MMOs with actual asset control, where my guild OWNS a limited asset and derives significant benefits from it. ESO is kiddy stuff and mostly a dress up dolly game in comparison... sticky targeting? LOL. All the same, I still don't like nerfherders because they end up ruining games.

pieratsos wrote: »

That build also cant kill anything with half a brain. A light armor build to be viable without shields needs some serious mitigation/healing and/or the ability to dodge. Sorcs dont have that and ur build most definitely dont have that.

O you think major protection whenever the sprint key is being held down is not "serious" mitigation? Protip... you don't even have to be moving to get the mitigation.

pieratsos wrote: »

And no, mutagen and blessing of restoration cannot replace healing ward.

"Hey herp, how do I counter SB?"
"I don't know, derp, maybe add another damage shield?"

You want to whine about people switching gear to "hunt" you. Yet -you- don't want to switch your own gear to a counter, don't want to slot heals that would actually effectively -counter- SB.

pieratsos wrote: »

And please tell me more how a 4k heal attached to an ability with a cast time is the best selfheal in the game.

How in the F are you only getting 4k on avg out of deal/exchange? Or are you just slanting and making stuff up again? The reason it is the best self-heal is that it returns resources to boot, that's why it has a cast time, it would be absurdly OP without one. As it is it's just... the best self heal in the game.

pieratsos wrote: »

The only burst heal available to sorcs is the pet

So we are back to discounting blessing/combat prayer and mutagen. Those -are- available to sorcs... in addition to the best self heal in the game, dark deal/exchange.

pieratsos wrote: »

It just shows someone playing in zergs, getting carried by others and thinking he is the one doing the job. Or you are playing solo but you've set the bar so low to the point where killing potatoes in 1v1 is enough.

Babbling river of irrelevant BS. Why am I not surprised? You are predictable

pieratsos wrote: »

You dont introduce a set that hardcounters that.

Guess what, when there is no shield up, SB does no-thing. That's not a hard counter "to the class" or to any number of sorc builds/gear setups. Here's another thought, how about equipping an ice staff and try -blocking- some hits when not using shield due to SB being around? Guess that would entail too much work.

pieratsos wrote: »

So please tell me again how the hell did shieldbreaker solved the shieldstacking issue when every single day a new nerf sorc thread pops.

I don't want sorcs nerfed, more irrelevant slant? Why yes it is. The set has been in for a long time, yet people still whine about sorcs? Hmmm, sounds like sorcs are doing pretty well then, despite SB.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Qbiken wrote: »

Threads these days:

> Someone makes a "Sorc are OP in Cyrodil and needs nerf, shieldstacking is OP"
> Sorcs runs to the thread to write stuff like "L2P git gut, sorcs are easy to kill if you know how to play"
> Someone decides to use hardcounters for sorc specificly and starts using shieldbreaker.
> Sorcs starts complaining about shieldbreaker being OP because it´s a counter to their class/build

lmao this thread is gold.

100% agree...

Lord-Otto

Dorrino wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It is very clear YOU have an absolutely blurred and downright delusional view on classes and their combat behaviour.

Prove it, sweetheart.

@dorrino PC NA.

Post the results here afterwards, please.

And since I know "you people", here's what can happen:

1. I win - justification that sorc is OP
2. I lose - clearly you're the better player
3. we draw on both sorcs - nothing proven

This happens always. Once people crossed the line of calling other classes "EZ mode", you can't have a fruitful discussion with them anymore, ...baby.

Dorrino

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It is very clear YOU have an absolutely blurred and downright delusional view on classes and their combat behaviour.

Prove it, sweetheart.

@dorrino PC NA.

Post the results here afterwards, please.

And since I know "you people", here's what can happen:

1. I win - justification that sorc is OP
2. I lose - clearly you're the better player
3. we draw on both sorcs - nothing proven

This happens always. Once people crossed the line of calling other classes "EZ mode", you can't have a fruitful discussion with them anymore, ...baby.

Apparently you can't support your claims and for some reason take a strong antagonistic position towards me personally.

Both of these are regretful.

As the consequence i'm equally regretful that i have to assume your point invalid until proven otherwise.

Koensol

This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.

Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?

bardx86

buttaface wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

No normal sorc can sit still and "outheal" any incoming dmg. Stop stating ur bs as facts.

Thank god there's a written record here. CAN YOU READ? Then read what I actually posted, what it was in reply to, and start over. I have no doubt you will still get it wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Any competent player will chew through ur 19k shields faster than u can cast them.

Stop posting lies. Or perhaps you will add some actual examples that make sense instead of crapola like the above?

pieratsos wrote: »

No you didnt post a single viable sorc option without shields. You posted a light armor build with 2 stamina sets. Thats not viable. Thats the exact opposite. Any competent player will smoke you in 5 seconds and even full potatoes will kill you in 1vX.

1. Wrong. More hot air. 2. You think a set with arcane jewelry and 2000 magicka regeneration is a "stamina set?" LOL Or are you just slanting your argument? Will go with the latter. Fail. It's also not fair to call a set that gives you major protection and expedition AT THE SAME TIME while sprinting a "stamina set" either.

But OK, here's the playstyle. Sprint and streak through the midfield of the team casting purge every 5 or so seconds, spamming mutagen. Streak and deal triggers frags, which is cast on called targets or overextended enemies. It's a team build, not a gank or 1vx build. But I will assure you it is a very viable, if unconventional sorc build that teammates are glad to have around. And to preempt some "other class does it better" bs, what other class has streak? What other class has deal/exchange? What other class has defensive rune? what other class has an easily triggered instacast like frags that can be almost all your offense and free up the rest of the bars for defense and support?

I'll be the first to admit I haven't mastered this game's pvp yet. In 17 years of MMO pvp, most of what I've mastered are games with actual aim in three axes OR MMOs with actual asset control, where my guild OWNS a limited asset and derives significant benefits from it. ESO is kiddy stuff and mostly a dress up dolly game in comparison... sticky targeting? LOL. All the same, I still don't like nerfherders because they end up ruining games.

pieratsos wrote: »

That build also cant kill anything with half a brain. A light armor build to be viable without shields needs some serious mitigation/healing and/or the ability to dodge. Sorcs dont have that and ur build most definitely dont have that.

O you think major protection whenever the sprint key is being held down is not "serious" mitigation? Protip... you don't even have to be moving to get the mitigation.

pieratsos wrote: »

And no, mutagen and blessing of restoration cannot replace healing ward.

"Hey herp, how do I counter SB?"
"I don't know, derp, maybe add another damage shield?"

You want to whine about people switching gear to "hunt" you. Yet -you- don't want to switch your own gear to a counter, don't want to slot heals that would actually effectively -counter- SB.

pieratsos wrote: »

And please tell me more how a 4k heal attached to an ability with a cast time is the best selfheal in the game.

How in the F are you only getting 4k on avg out of deal/exchange? Or are you just slanting and making stuff up again? The reason it is the best self-heal is that it returns resources to boot, that's why it has a cast time, it would be absurdly OP without one. As it is it's just... the best self heal in the game.

pieratsos wrote: »

The only burst heal available to sorcs is the pet

So we are back to discounting blessing/combat prayer and mutagen. Those -are- available to sorcs... in addition to the best self heal in the game, dark deal/exchange.

pieratsos wrote: »

It just shows someone playing in zergs, getting carried by others and thinking he is the one doing the job. Or you are playing solo but you've set the bar so low to the point where killing potatoes in 1v1 is enough.

Babbling river of irrelevant BS. Why am I not surprised? You are predictable

pieratsos wrote: »

You dont introduce a set that hardcounters that.

Guess what, when there is no shield up, SB does no-thing. That's not a hard counter "to the class" or to any number of sorc builds/gear setups. Here's another thought, how about equipping an ice staff and try -blocking- some hits when not using shield due to SB being around? Guess that would entail too much work.

pieratsos wrote: »

So please tell me again how the hell did shieldbreaker solved the shieldstacking issue when every single day a new nerf sorc thread pops.

I don't want sorcs nerfed, more irrelevant slant? Why yes it is. The set has been in for a long time, yet people still whine about sorcs? Hmmm, sounds like sorcs are doing pretty well then, despite SB.

huh?

bardx86

Koensol wrote: »

This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.

Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?

This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.

Koensol

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.

Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?

This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.

Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.

Biro123

buttaface wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

No normal sorc can sit still and "outheal" any incoming dmg. Stop stating ur bs as facts.

Thank god there's a written record here. CAN YOU READ? Then read what I actually posted, what it was in reply to, and start over. I have no doubt you will still get it wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Any competent player will chew through ur 19k shields faster than u can cast them.

Stop posting lies. Or perhaps you will add some actual examples that make sense instead of crapola like the above?

pieratsos wrote: »

No you didnt post a single viable sorc option without shields. You posted a light armor build with 2 stamina sets. Thats not viable. Thats the exact opposite. Any competent player will smoke you in 5 seconds and even full potatoes will kill you in 1vX.

1. Wrong. More hot air. 2. You think a set with arcane jewelry and 2000 magicka regeneration is a "stamina set?" LOL Or are you just slanting your argument? Will go with the latter. Fail. It's also not fair to call a set that gives you major protection and expedition AT THE SAME TIME while sprinting a "stamina set" either.

But OK, here's the playstyle. Sprint and streak through the midfield of the team casting purge every 5 or so seconds, spamming mutagen. Streak and deal triggers frags, which is cast on called targets or overextended enemies. It's a team build, not a gank or 1vx build. But I will assure you it is a very viable, if unconventional sorc build that teammates are glad to have around. And to preempt some "other class does it better" bs, what other class has streak? What other class has deal/exchange? What other class has defensive rune? what other class has an easily triggered instacast like frags that can be almost all your offense and free up the rest of the bars for defense and support?

I'll be the first to admit I haven't mastered this game's pvp yet. In 17 years of MMO pvp, most of what I've mastered are games with actual aim in three axes OR MMOs with actual asset control, where my guild OWNS a limited asset and derives significant benefits from it. ESO is kiddy stuff and mostly a dress up dolly game in comparison... sticky targeting? LOL. All the same, I still don't like nerfherders because they end up ruining games.

pieratsos wrote: »

That build also cant kill anything with half a brain. A light armor build to be viable without shields needs some serious mitigation/healing and/or the ability to dodge. Sorcs dont have that and ur build most definitely dont have that.

O you think major protection whenever the sprint key is being held down is not "serious" mitigation? Protip... you don't even have to be moving to get the mitigation.

pieratsos wrote: »

And no, mutagen and blessing of restoration cannot replace healing ward.

"Hey herp, how do I counter SB?"
"I don't know, derp, maybe add another damage shield?"

You want to whine about people switching gear to "hunt" you. Yet -you- don't want to switch your own gear to a counter, don't want to slot heals that would actually effectively -counter- SB.

pieratsos wrote: »

And please tell me more how a 4k heal attached to an ability with a cast time is the best selfheal in the game.

How in the F are you only getting 4k on avg out of deal/exchange? Or are you just slanting and making stuff up again? The reason it is the best self-heal is that it returns resources to boot, that's why it has a cast time, it would be absurdly OP without one. As it is it's just... the best self heal in the game.

pieratsos wrote: »

The only burst heal available to sorcs is the pet

So we are back to discounting blessing/combat prayer and mutagen. Those -are- available to sorcs... in addition to the best self heal in the game, dark deal/exchange.

pieratsos wrote: »

It just shows someone playing in zergs, getting carried by others and thinking he is the one doing the job. Or you are playing solo but you've set the bar so low to the point where killing potatoes in 1v1 is enough.

Babbling river of irrelevant BS. Why am I not surprised? You are predictable

pieratsos wrote: »

You dont introduce a set that hardcounters that.

Guess what, when there is no shield up, SB does no-thing. That's not a hard counter "to the class" or to any number of sorc builds/gear setups. Here's another thought, how about equipping an ice staff and try -blocking- some hits when not using shield due to SB being around? Guess that would entail too much work.

pieratsos wrote: »

So please tell me again how the hell did shieldbreaker solved the shieldstacking issue when every single day a new nerf sorc thread pops.

I don't want sorcs nerfed, more irrelevant slant? Why yes it is. The set has been in for a long time, yet people still whine about sorcs? Hmmm, sounds like sorcs are doing pretty well then, despite SB.

So, your 'build to survive shieldbreaker' involves being a purgebot, hiding in the middle of a group and having the speed to run away.? Or not using shields? Not using shields would be fine if you could instantly turn them off when needed, AND there were builds that can defend well for a time without shields being up, without also synergising really, really badly with shields.

Ice staff blocking? It just works so badly with sorc. Anyone knows that you also need heals to be with that blocking.. So where does sorc get them? You can't block while dark dealing, surge does nothing while you don't attack, pet-heals are out as theyre dead with no shields. All others have to come from the resto-bar and those arnt fantastic.
Compared to other classes, when built for blocking, sorcs are just very bad at it. Where does the sustain come from? I know you're not suggesting building a block-build on a class that is bad at it.

bardx86

Koensol wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.

Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?

This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.

Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.

true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics

bardx86

Biro123 wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

No normal sorc can sit still and "outheal" any incoming dmg. Stop stating ur bs as facts.

Thank god there's a written record here. CAN YOU READ? Then read what I actually posted, what it was in reply to, and start over. I have no doubt you will still get it wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Any competent player will chew through ur 19k shields faster than u can cast them.

Stop posting lies. Or perhaps you will add some actual examples that make sense instead of crapola like the above?

pieratsos wrote: »

No you didnt post a single viable sorc option without shields. You posted a light armor build with 2 stamina sets. Thats not viable. Thats the exact opposite. Any competent player will smoke you in 5 seconds and even full potatoes will kill you in 1vX.

1. Wrong. More hot air. 2. You think a set with arcane jewelry and 2000 magicka regeneration is a "stamina set?" LOL Or are you just slanting your argument? Will go with the latter. Fail. It's also not fair to call a set that gives you major protection and expedition AT THE SAME TIME while sprinting a "stamina set" either.

But OK, here's the playstyle. Sprint and streak through the midfield of the team casting purge every 5 or so seconds, spamming mutagen. Streak and deal triggers frags, which is cast on called targets or overextended enemies. It's a team build, not a gank or 1vx build. But I will assure you it is a very viable, if unconventional sorc build that teammates are glad to have around. And to preempt some "other class does it better" bs, what other class has streak? What other class has deal/exchange? What other class has defensive rune? what other class has an easily triggered instacast like frags that can be almost all your offense and free up the rest of the bars for defense and support?

I'll be the first to admit I haven't mastered this game's pvp yet. In 17 years of MMO pvp, most of what I've mastered are games with actual aim in three axes OR MMOs with actual asset control, where my guild OWNS a limited asset and derives significant benefits from it. ESO is kiddy stuff and mostly a dress up dolly game in comparison... sticky targeting? LOL. All the same, I still don't like nerfherders because they end up ruining games.

pieratsos wrote: »

That build also cant kill anything with half a brain. A light armor build to be viable without shields needs some serious mitigation/healing and/or the ability to dodge. Sorcs dont have that and ur build most definitely dont have that.

O you think major protection whenever the sprint key is being held down is not "serious" mitigation? Protip... you don't even have to be moving to get the mitigation.

pieratsos wrote: »

And no, mutagen and blessing of restoration cannot replace healing ward.

"Hey herp, how do I counter SB?"
"I don't know, derp, maybe add another damage shield?"

You want to whine about people switching gear to "hunt" you. Yet -you- don't want to switch your own gear to a counter, don't want to slot heals that would actually effectively -counter- SB.

pieratsos wrote: »

And please tell me more how a 4k heal attached to an ability with a cast time is the best selfheal in the game.

How in the F are you only getting 4k on avg out of deal/exchange? Or are you just slanting and making stuff up again? The reason it is the best self-heal is that it returns resources to boot, that's why it has a cast time, it would be absurdly OP without one. As it is it's just... the best self heal in the game.

pieratsos wrote: »

The only burst heal available to sorcs is the pet

So we are back to discounting blessing/combat prayer and mutagen. Those -are- available to sorcs... in addition to the best self heal in the game, dark deal/exchange.

pieratsos wrote: »

It just shows someone playing in zergs, getting carried by others and thinking he is the one doing the job. Or you are playing solo but you've set the bar so low to the point where killing potatoes in 1v1 is enough.

Babbling river of irrelevant BS. Why am I not surprised? You are predictable

pieratsos wrote: »

You dont introduce a set that hardcounters that.

Guess what, when there is no shield up, SB does no-thing. That's not a hard counter "to the class" or to any number of sorc builds/gear setups. Here's another thought, how about equipping an ice staff and try -blocking- some hits when not using shield due to SB being around? Guess that would entail too much work.

pieratsos wrote: »

So please tell me again how the hell did shieldbreaker solved the shieldstacking issue when every single day a new nerf sorc thread pops.

I don't want sorcs nerfed, more irrelevant slant? Why yes it is. The set has been in for a long time, yet people still whine about sorcs? Hmmm, sounds like sorcs are doing pretty well then, despite SB.

So, your 'build to survive shieldbreaker' involves being a purgebot, hiding in the middle of a group and having the speed to run away.? Or not using shields? Not using shields would be fine if you could instantly turn them off when needed, AND there were builds that can defend well for a time without shields being up, without also synergising really, really badly with shields.

Ice staff blocking? It just works so badly with sorc. Anyone knows that you also need heals to be with that blocking.. So where does sorc get them? You can't block while dark dealing, surge does nothing while you don't attack, pet-heals are out as theyre dead with no shields. All others have to come from the resto-bar and those arnt fantastic.
Compared to other classes, when built for blocking, sorcs are just very bad at it. Where does the sustain come from? I know you're not suggesting building a block-build on a class that is bad at it.

right, just give us a magic vigor and we will call it a day. hell fire

Qbiken

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.

Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?

This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.

Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.

true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics

Well, only place where LoS isn´t a valid way of surviving (at least what I can think of) is in duels. But to balance set/PvP after how something performs in a duel is like balancing PvE after how certain things perform in maelstrom arena.

I don´t think ZOS will remove SB from the game (as some people suggest they should), since ZOS rarely removes sets from the game. Only legit suggestion I´ve seen in this thread is to make Shield Breaker only work on melee damage.

Biro123

Qbiken wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

This thread... There just happens to be one counter against shield stackers, and it is supposedly broken and unfair. While stamblades being marked and effectively losing their most important defense is completely fine? Maybe add to that a power of the light, curse or one of the other 100 things that counter cloak. If you watch any competent NB player get marked in a 1vx situation, what do they do? Or any other squishy class/build getting countered for that matter... They run and use LoS to seperate the attackers and mitigate the unavoidable damage. That is what you do when your build is directly countered: you use your environment to your advantage to avoid being countered and dying to said mechanic.

Yet some people think ZOS should take into account their false sense of pride when they balance their game. They somehow think it is below them. If you don't LoS when you are countered or pressured, please don't use that as ANY argument for your inability to defend yourself against something. Do you honestly think you should be able to stand and fight, and tank every source of damage when you are in light armor?

This is false, there are plenty of counters and defensive moves a class/player can use. LOS is a crutch for the unskilled and folks that don't know there class and get into trouble.

Somehow this is contradictory to the sorc players in this thread saying there is no defense against sb. And I invite you to try and survive without LoS, when you have a mark, potl and curse on you as a NB. Or even better, mark+soul assault. I know there are defensive moves and counters to other players, but when your specific build is hard countered, you are a fool to keep standing there thinking you will somehow survive.

true but running around a rock is like watching benny hill but without the chics

Well, only place where LoS isn´t a valid way of surviving (at least what I can think of) is in duels. But to balance set/PvP after how something performs in a duel is like balancing PvE after how certain things perform in maelstrom arena.

I don´t think ZOS will remove SB from the game (as some people suggest they should), since ZOS rarely removes sets from the game. Only legit suggestion I´ve seen in this thread is to make Shield Breaker only work on melee damage.

To be honest, I think that be a huge nerf since it would be addressing all the biggest issues I have with it in one go. Possibly too big a nerf, tbf.

I think possibly the best suggestion I've seen is for it to damage the shield rather than the person under it.. But the big question then would be whether SB damage should apply before the weapon/ability damage that applied it - or after. That answer would probably have the biggest impact on smaller shields like igneous.. But I also think it should add some kind of effect to the attack - maybe a purplish glow or something? The main method of delivery (bow light attacks) is very difficult to see.

I guess another solution - but probably too clunky would be an internal cd of maybe 1s.. so it doesn't get boosted by the light attack speed of bow - but that wouldn't really work as it would make bow one of the worst as it would have to wait for the next la, which would be 1.2 seconds, rather than 1 - halving its effectiveness. Nah, that's no good.

*Edit - more thoughts*

But really, fixing shieldbreaker does have to start with fixing the sorc class. I mean Zos have been going down the route of wanting players to use multiple defence types.. this is evidenced by the increase in unblockable/undodgeable/oblivion etc.. in recent patches. For most mag classes, this works as they have that already... whether its annulment + cloak, or class-based heals/purges.. or blocking which can be done with s+b cos class-based heals on the same bar... or passives helping with blocking/mitigation/resource return while blocking.. passives that reduce incoming damage...
Sorc gets annulment and.. another shield.. so a mechanic bypassing shields screws them on both counts.
or Blocking with no class heals that can be block-cast, and no passives to help with resources/defence while blocking..

I'd love to be able to play sorc as a heavy-armoured, s+b using lightning wielder - but it just doesn't work that way.(I have tried - more than once as different patches hit). can't heal on that defensive bar, can't sustain either the stam blocking or mag casting, cant deal enough sustained dmg unless going for destro on the other bar - which loses all heals but the very interuptable dark deal.. So get rid of shield-stacking, yeah - but give the class either a class spammable so it can be offensively effective while on a s+b bar (and have resto heals from back bar) - or a class heal that can be block-cast and doesn't rely on a shield to keep a pet alive for it (or as bard said - some kind of magica version of vigour so heals can be obtained without having to use resto).

(btw, i've tried using mutagen - and one of the MOST annoying things with it is that sometimes you have to cast it a ton of times to actually affect you instead of random people running past... Don't get that problem with vigour. So even mutagen is pretty damn unreliable too.)

Lord-Otto

Dorrino wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It is very clear YOU have an absolutely blurred and downright delusional view on classes and their combat behaviour.

Prove it, sweetheart.

@dorrino PC NA.

Post the results here afterwards, please.

And since I know "you people", here's what can happen:

1. I win - justification that sorc is OP
2. I lose - clearly you're the better player
3. we draw on both sorcs - nothing proven

This happens always. Once people crossed the line of calling other classes "EZ mode", you can't have a fruitful discussion with them anymore, ...baby.

Apparently you can't support your claims and for some reason take a strong antagonistic position towards me personally.

Both of these are regretful.

As the consequence i'm equally regretful that i have to assume your point invalid until proven otherwise.

Well, let's test your reading skills.
What... iiis my claim, then?

josh.lackey_ESO

Sorcs have the best heal in the game -- the twilight matriarch -- and I would love to use it in PvP, but it's completely impractical for all but troll pet builds. It takes 2 bar slots, has crappy AI, and dies too easily. Maybe if that were addressed, it might be a different story.

I just got 4 year forum anniversary, so my opinion must be based on the most experience, therefore, the most correct. So there.

Biro123

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

I just got 4 year forum anniversary, so my opinion must be based on the most experience, therefore, the most correct. So there.

Pff.. Where's the video proof!

Dorrino

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Well, let's test your reading skills.
What... iiis my claim, then?

This behavior won't serve the purpose you expect it to serve.

Some people have an illusion that never giving up allows them to win.

Doing so they forget about the point in question and instead they make it a personal brawl.

No, my friend, if you don't support your claims, your claims will stay invalid.

The most peculiar part of the subject is that 'sorc defenders' adamantly try to prove that they are weak:)

You've been told - no, you're strong. No, you can manage. And they keep insisting that they are weak and incapable.

Let me tell you again - no you're not. You play a strong class and you can become skillful enough as the player to overcome shieldbreaker. I believe in you.