XV1 skills need to be reworked IMMEDIATELY.

Koolio

Almost everything on my recap (4:5) is either undodgeable or unblockable. Then lethal arrow. Lol.

Morbash

Thelon wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares.

This is now a nerf Spider-Man thread.

Vilestride

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm a bit on the fence about these so called Xv1 skills. Nerfing some of them in the way you suggest makes them kind of useless or at least WAY less potent in a 1v1.

For instance, Curse is one of the only skills sorcs have that can hit a perma dodge stam player (esp NB with force miss cloak). I played sorc back when curse was blockable. It was pretty underwhelming and we had almost nothing that could touch blocking players (this was way before EOTS). Even now, players that dodge everything just eat the curse and are fully healed again in maybe a second.

Fury actually works now... once upon a time, fury had a really nasty delay on the execute explosion. I could knock a target to 5% with fury active on them and they had enough to vigor heal up past the execute explosion while dodge rolling all other attacks that could have finished them. Often on a CC'd target, I had enough time to finish them with crushing shock or something before the explosion even happened.

POTL, is like a templar curse. It's one of the skills that actually makes templar viable in pvp. Nerfing this skill would be like nerfing curse, it's a staple of their burst, and without it just are just spamming jabs or beam.

Making soul assault interruptible really only hurts the ult in small group. With Xv1 play, good luck CCing that in the back of the zerg gunning you down.

Honestly, nerfing something because of Xv1 potential is pretty lame in the first place. When a 40 man KUSH raid jumps off dclaw wall to come kill your little solo self (actually solo, not solo with 50 pugs aronud you), with 8 ultimates, beam spam, shield charge spam, root spam, fossilize spam, single target and AoE spam, do you really think you should be able to do more than laugh as you kite them around a rock for 30 seconds?

I kinda have to agree with all of this, you can't nerf things on the basis that they make it too hard for you to win outnumbered fights. Hypothetically if you are in a 2v1 against 2 of yourself, a perfectly balanced game would never allow you to win that fight.

The only thing that should enable you to win fights as an underdog is a skill gap. That will create a healthier PVP experience.

When you say balanced what do you mean? If the best player in the game can't beat the worst 2 players in the game, it might be mechanically balanced, but by no means it's skilled balanced.

Skill should always prevail any other aspect of a game imo.

Yeah I agree, that is why I didn't say the best player vs the 2 worst, I said the best player vs 2 hypothetical copies of himself. completely equal skill just outnumbered. Hence, I agree that skill gap should be what gets you over the line in an outnumbered situation, rather than nerfing abilities to make those scenarios easier.

I don't think having mechanics that help you when inherently disadvantaged is going to make healthier PVP and honestly will lower the skill level required to be a top player and able to succeed in those difficult situations.

Just my opinion on ***, though I am confirmed a zergling soo.

Soul_Demon

thankyourat wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

For ef's sake. Stop demanding to survive against 5 opponents without backup.

5 cliffracers? 1 healer can take you through them. You don't even need even numbers, just run a balanced duo and survive any of the above mentioned skills

You people demanding that a lone wolf should be able to survive x opponents attacking together have destroyed this game. You alone.

Finally gtfo and play any other game but please for the love of tiny kittens, just shut up and diaf.

How are solo players ruining the game. Everything in the game is designed to kill us because the developers don't think it's fun if you die when you outnumber your opponents.

No. Solo and 1vx'ers are simply ESO's failures at group.

Why? Don't know...maybe they are intolerable in TS, maybe they are 'too smart" and know everything. Maybe they are really, really bad with tactics and map management in a war game. No matter what they will tell you they are solo or 1vx "by choice man" In fact they almost NEVER directly contribute to the game the way it was designed.

They don't take keeps or outposts, they don't defend keeps, they don't care about emp (unless its them or one of the four players that can tolerate them) or campaign scores at all. But they do want groups out there to do those things so they can hang around in stealth and pick off players as they try to play the game the way its designed. Objectives on the map are not there in their minds because you take them, they are there so you can pick off other players who try to take them and are little markers on the map to find them.

Matter of fact reading the forums you see they even cry with campaigns when they are not populated enough to supply players for them to pick off playing the map. So they complain about everything to sway the combat in favor of the solo or 1vx player claiming it is the 'skilled' way to play.....because, after all...they solo and 1vx "by choice man" not because others can not tolerate to play with them with those winning personalities. But hey....there is always streaming to look forward to.

Thelon

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Solo and 1vx'ers are simply ESO's failures at group.

Why? Don't know...maybe they are intolerable in TS, maybe they are 'too smart" and know everything. Maybe they are really, really bad with tactics and map management in a war game. No matter what they will tell you they are solo or 1vx "by choice man" In fact they almost NEVER directly contribute to the game the way it was designed.

Dreyloch

Thelon wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares.

I can tell you it's not anywhere on that doll because the 1vx'er got his azz kicked by my raid rolling thru to an objective on the map. You know...actually contributing to my factions' score?

Again, if ppl wanna play solo, go for it. But don't come here complaining to get stuff nerfed because you got rolled. Because you don't roll with other players "by choice man"...

Defilted

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

You do realize this would hit PVE side of the game really hard right? I cannot see this is a good change for PVE tanks.

Thelon

@Defilted it would only apply to PvP through Battle Spirit

Dreyloch

CyrusArya wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares. Cyrodiil=Large scale play and massive battles. BG's= small man groups doing objectives. Dueling-=self explanatory.

Very sick and tired of zerglings insisting their way is the only way. Cyrodiil is an open world sandbox that allows for any and all scales of PvP. Just cus you cant comprehend PvP without a raid group, doesn't mean others haven't been achieving and enjoying that play style in cyro since the very beginning.

Small scale is just as much a part of cyrodiil as zerg play.

I'm not saying it's the only way. I'm saying stop trying to nerf stuff because it's not "your" way, and your getting killed by higher numbers. Want less deaths? Get people to hang with. That simple. Go solo? Expect to die way more. It's not rocket surgery.

Defilted

@thelon They have never made changes like this before. I think that applying all changes to battle spirit and leaving PVP and PVE changes separate is a great idea. This has not been done yet and it has not been announced as a go forward ideology for skill and game mechanics changes.

CyrusArya

Soul_Demon wrote: »

No. Solo and 1vx'ers are simply ESO's failures at group.....[excessive zergling rant].....

Anyone who can succeed solo can succeed in a large raid, but the opposite is not necessarily true. Don't get it twisted. Literally anyone can zerg well. What you can't seem to comprehend however, is that to some people, playing the map is boring. To us, it's the actual fights that are fun.

People who look to the performance of their faction or guild for validation do so because their personal ability is oh so mediocre. Not much different from dumb nationalists that rally around the flag of a country because their individual achievement is so low.

Dreyloch wrote: »

I'm not saying it's the only way. I'm saying stop trying to nerf stuff because it's not "your" way, and your getting killed by higher numbers. Want less deaths? Get people to hang with. That simple. Go solo? Expect to die way more. It's not rocket surgery.

If you followed this thread, you'd see that my initial comment was saying exactly what you claim. That the game shouldn't be balanced around a specific play style and that solo/small scale is supposed to be hard.

What I objected to is your claim that cyrodiil=large scale and massive battles. It's not only about that.

FENGRUSH

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at some of the replies in here.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

Well, if you have 5 -6 people attacking at the same time, odds are you're going to die from it. What you want to nerf every skill that's killed you and you want to be able to perma block everything else. We did that before, it failed, PvP still hasn't recovered from that fiasco.

Lord_Invel

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

Well, if you have 5 -6 people attacking at the same time, odds are you're going to die from it. What you want to nerf every skill that's killed you and you want to be able to perma block everything else. We did that before, it failed, PvP still hasn't recovered from that fiasco.

you obviously didn't read a word that I wrote like at all. Since when did I say I want to perma block everything that comes my way and that I want to live forever. I want to die when I'm fighting 6 people vs me solo. No I want to die because I get outplayed not just because I simply get outnumbered and all the people are using moves that have no core mechanical counter play.

Lord_Invel

Dreyloch wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

If your getting hit by 5 cliffracers, your obviously in the wrong PvP format. You should be dueling or in BG's where you can 1v4 (tops) or 1v1 with much better odds. Don't even try to get stuff nerfed because you lack the insight of running with more than just yourself. Going into Cyrodiil solo and getting stomped because you put your nose where it got shot off, isn't a reason to nerf all kinds of skills. That's on you. Not on ZoS.

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares. Cyrodiil=Large scale play and massive battles. BG's= small man groups doing objectives. Dueling-=self explanatory.

Lol you say I'm going to die no matter what even if 5 people spam cliff racers at me. Hey I have an idea how about making those cliff racers dodgeable so I can turn around and nuke the 5 people spamming the skill. Do you understand what my argument is. I'm saying abilities and skills need to have counterplay. Numbers shouldn't always win in a fight. If I perform better with my reactions and timing and burst alignment over 5 other people that don't know the difference between up from down or left from right ..... I should win.

Lord_Invel

Quantum_V wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm a bit on the fence about these so called Xv1 skills. Nerfing some of them in the way you suggest makes them kind of useless or at least WAY less potent in a 1v1.

For instance, Curse is one of the only skills sorcs have that can hit a perma dodge stam player (esp NB with force miss cloak). I played sorc back when curse was blockable. It was pretty underwhelming and we had almost nothing that could touch blocking players (this was way before EOTS). Even now, players that dodge everything just eat the curse and are fully healed again in maybe a second.

Fury actually works now... once upon a time, fury had a really nasty delay on the execute explosion. I could knock a target to 5% with fury active on them and they had enough to vigor heal up past the execute explosion while dodge rolling all other attacks that could have finished them. Often on a CC'd target, I had enough time to finish them with crushing shock or something before the explosion even happened.

POTL, is like a templar curse. It's one of the skills that actually makes templar viable in pvp. Nerfing this skill would be like nerfing curse, it's a staple of their burst, and without it just are just spamming jabs or beam.

Making soul assault interruptible really only hurts the ult in small group. With Xv1 play, good luck CCing that in the back of the zerg gunning you down.

Honestly, nerfing something because of Xv1 potential is pretty lame in the first place. When a 40 man KUSH raid jumps off dclaw wall to come kill your little solo self (actually solo, not solo with 50 pugs aronud you), with 8 ultimates, beam spam, shield charge spam, root spam, fossilize spam, single target and AoE spam, do you really think you should be able to do more than laugh as you kite them around a rock for 30 seconds?

I kinda have to agree with all of this, you can't nerf things on the basis that they make it too hard for you to win outnumbered fights. Hypothetically if you are in a 2v1 against 2 of yourself, a perfectly balanced game would never allow you to win that fight.

The only thing that should enable you to win fights as an underdog is a skill gap. That will create a healthier PVP experience.

When you say balanced what do you mean? If the best player in the game can't beat the worst 2 players in the game, it might be mechanically balanced, but by no means it's skilled balanced.

Skill should always prevail any other aspect of a game imo.

YOUR WORDS ARE LIKE GOLD MY FRIEND.

Lucky28

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at some of the replies in here.

you should probably cry

WaltherCarraway

BTW don't rage whisper me in game next time. Time to relearn the class if you got killed by empowering chain while streaking sway LOLOLOLOL

Thelon

Lord_Invel

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

BTW don't rage whisper me in game next time. Time to relearn the class if you got killed by empowering chain while streaking sway LOLOLOLOL

um empowering chain didn't kill me.... the 10 people chasing me while ur chain spam does lol my point exactly. So just because I cant streak away from you means I have l2p issues. No my friend frankly its the fact that a whole zerg ignores their keep defense and zerg vs zerg fight and chases one guy down like me with damn horses and all they do is gap close spam or chain and snare spam..... because numbers will just overwhelm one person in any fight. But it doesn't help by making it worse for the solo player when there are no tangible counters to most of the moves being spammed. And frankly even if one person or 2 people chase me sometimes I just run around the whole map and not fight them just to see what my kiting limits are. Then when I'm sick and tired of that I might fight them or just disengage completely. But why should dodge roll and streak be nerfed for being spammed and not chains and gap closers. Those are moves that shorten the distance between opponents too why do they not get the same treatment for being spammed. Its quit obvious because zos is either incompetent or indifferent about the situation. This game would thrive like how it used to if zos actually listened to its community. Solo 1vx pvp and small scale pvp were the number one most viewed content on twitch streams and youtube. If zos cant see that solo pvp and small scale pvp is what attracts people to this game for the long run then they have failed the game already.

Thelon

let the potatoes potate, friend. It's not worth a whole paragraph

Lord_Invel

Thelon wrote: »

let the potatoes potate, friend. It's not worth a whole paragraph

You know... sometimes I forget that I'm talking to a brick wall in these forum threads lol its sad what this game has become my friend.

NBrookus

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

(I chased him down with empowering chain and Deadlyheals by my side before...)

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

BTW don't rage whisper me in game next time. Time to relearn the class if you got killed by empowering chain while streaking sway LOLOLOLOL

I still kinda... ... at you bragging about Xv1ing someone. It happens sometimes; sometimes you just gotta chase that last guy so he doesn't put up a camp. But it's for sure nothing to brag about.

Valencer

Lord_Invel wrote: »

This game would thrive like how it used to if zos actually listened to its community. Solo 1vx pvp and small scale pvp were the number one most viewed content on twitch streams and youtube. If zos cant see that solo pvp and small scale pvp is what attracts people to this game for the long run then they have failed the game already.

I think this is where youre wrong. If the game "thrived" back then they probably wouldn't have changed a thing.

This game went from actively providing mechanics that scale up the more people youre fighting, to taking those away and instead adding mechanics/abilities that scale up the more people are hitting the same target. That's a complete 180 and there's obviously a reason for that.

I don't like it either, but it is what it is

Soul_Demon

CyrusArya wrote: »

Anyone who can succeed solo can succeed in a large raid, but the opposite is not necessarily true. Don't get it twisted. Literally anyone can zerg well. What you can't seem to comprehend however, is that to some people, playing the map is boring. To us, it's the actual fights that are fun.

People who look to the performance of their faction or guild for validation do so because their personal ability is oh so mediocre. Not much different from dumb nationalists that rally around the flag of a country because their individual achievement is so low.

No, my special little snowflake....they cant. Its the proverbial "I could dominate, but its by my choice I don't man" comment. Solo and 1vx play that way for a number of reasons and NONE of them are because they even know HOW to play organized PvP in cyro. They will of course tell you "I did, and can- but 'by choice man' I don't". Your use of disparaging comment of "zerg" shows the bias you clearly have and distain for organized groups. Forget the "nationalist" comment showing the left leaning taint you carry.

In order to cover up the reasons they failed at group play and to distract away from that they claim the score doesn't matter and 'no one cares' anyway. Map management isn't an important way to show how well you play and doesn't accurately reflect anything at all. This is trying to appeal to other low hanging fruit who will undoubtedly agree with them and jump on the 'solo and 1vx is true skill' bandwagon because it neatly explains their own failures and excuses them from any type of measuring stick for skill. Placing your factions Emp on throne? Nope, for zergers. Rank? Nope...for zergers. Map control? nope.....for zergers. Tactical analysis and execution? Nope...for zergers. Build diversity balanced with player skill levels and ability in 12+ man groups? Nope- too easy and for zergers. Making calls and placing team in places where they will be fed enough ap and be able to optimally support the factions win? Nope....for zergers.

1v1 or gank group build players who have fallen behind or those who are dumb enough to follow the LOS squads? Yes...now that is true skill and requires only the best of the best to do.

Here is a hint, if the game design was for solo and small scale, don't you think the mechanics/skills wouldn't need to be constantly 'adjusted' for those truly skilled solo and 1vxers to allow them to 'enjoy' the game more?

Izaki

pcar944 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

if you nerf NB even more, specifically Mag NB, you literally might as well just delete the entire class form the game, theres literally NOTHING left to nerf

Fear. And after they do that, Nightblades shall be no more. Let's just hope this won't happen while we're still playing the game.

NightbladeMechanics

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Not sure whether to laugh or cry at some of the replies in here.

^ yup, this is my favorite thread on the forums right now.

Invel, I feel like you make this same thread every patch. Having some trouble out there in Cyro, buddy?

Dojohoda

Step 1: Bring back counter play by removing resource poisons.

Dreyloch

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

If your getting hit by 5 cliffracers, your obviously in the wrong PvP format. You should be dueling or in BG's where you can 1v4 (tops) or 1v1 with much better odds. Don't even try to get stuff nerfed because you lack the insight of running with more than just yourself. Going into Cyrodiil solo and getting stomped because you put your nose where it got shot off, isn't a reason to nerf all kinds of skills. That's on you. Not on ZoS.

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares. Cyrodiil=Large scale play and massive battles. BG's= small man groups doing objectives. Dueling-=self explanatory.

Lol you say I'm going to die no matter what even if 5 people spam cliff racers at me. Hey I have an idea how about making those cliff racers dodgeable so I can turn around and nuke the 5 people spamming the skill. Do you understand what my argument is. I'm saying abilities and skills need to have counterplay. Numbers shouldn't always win in a fight. If I perform better with my reactions and timing and burst alignment over 5 other people that don't know the difference between up from down or left from right ..... I should win.

ZoS explained before the cliffracers even came out, that they would not be dodgeable because of the casting and animation delays. But I digress. It's like you want to go toe to toe in a gunfight with a knife against 5 people and cry because the guns don't shoot cotton candy. Sorry pal, it just don't work that way.

The only true way to make this game based on skill is to give us all template gear and skills for each class. Nothing else. No proc sets, no CP, no PvE gear at all. Except this game would be so utterly boring, there would be no one left to fight. I'm betting you'd still get rolled by the 5 people your fighting though, because no one would have advantage except by numbers. It's simple physics. A 2oz. hummingbird can't fight a 30lbs. eagle.

the_broo11

Dreyloch wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

If your getting hit by 5 cliffracers, your obviously in the wrong PvP format. You should be dueling or in BG's where you can 1v4 (tops) or 1v1 with much better odds. Don't even try to get stuff nerfed because you lack the insight of running with more than just yourself. Going into Cyrodiil solo and getting stomped because you put your nose where it got shot off, isn't a reason to nerf all kinds of skills. That's on you. Not on ZoS.

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares. Cyrodiil=Large scale play and massive battles. BG's= small man groups doing objectives. Dueling-=self explanatory.

Lol you say I'm going to die no matter what even if 5 people spam cliff racers at me. Hey I have an idea how about making those cliff racers dodgeable so I can turn around and nuke the 5 people spamming the skill. Do you understand what my argument is. I'm saying abilities and skills need to have counterplay. Numbers shouldn't always win in a fight. If I perform better with my reactions and timing and burst alignment over 5 other people that don't know the difference between up from down or left from right ..... I should win.

ZoS explained before the cliffracers even came out, that they would not be dodgeable because of the casting and animation delays. But I digress. It's like you want to go toe to toe in a gunfight with a knife against 5 people and cry because the guns don't shoot cotton candy. Sorry pal, it just don't work that way.

The only true way to make this game based on skill is to give us all template gear and skills for each class. Nothing else. No proc sets, no CP, no PvE gear at all. Except this game would be so utterly boring, there would be no one left to fight. I'm betting you'd still get rolled by the 5 people your fighting though, because no one would have advantage except by numbers. It's simple physics. A 2oz. hummingbird can't fight a 30lbs. eagle.

Your analogy is lacking.

I'd say his analogy is closer to wanting to go toe-to-toe against 5 people with equal guns in an environment full of rubble and debris. But ZOS has decided everyone needs armor piercing rounds due to reasons. Now instead of using the environment to his advantage in a skillful choice of strategic engagements, he gets gunned down by oblivious numbers shooting through the debris.