XV1 skills need to be reworked IMMEDIATELY.

Lord_Invel

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

IM actually a mag sorc lol. This is a thread about xv1 skills that makes pvp just a pure numbers game. I already said that curse and endless fury needs to be nerfed so how am I being biased ?

oh so you are the type of guys you see " Nerf sorc thread " on the forum and think immediatly " Hum i should enjoy this class cause according to these 78 nerf sorc thread without any reliable source this class is (OP) ... then i will spit on this class and create my own nerf sorc thread mwaHAHAHA" ? something like this ?

I think u are literally an idiot and you don't understand what I said at all. Did u ignore the fact that I said nerf, power of light , soul assault , cliffracer , and gap close spamming lol. How did this become a nerf sorc thread. Just cause 2 skills get nerfed not even by a lot wont kill the class. Sorc was always played with fury having a delay on it being dodgeable and curse used to be blockable. Removing those mechanics from those two skills make those two skills have no counterplay.

Lord_Invel

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment take these words seriously.

When you start of a post like that, and then rattle off a list of demands, it has the opposite affect. Makes me wanna just dismiss your entire post without even considering it. Can only imagine how the actual devs feel.

At any rate, I agree that counter play is a good thing. I disagree with your labelling these abilities as being "Xv1 skills", when they are used in every format of PvP (1vX, 1v1, GroupGroup, ZergvZerg, etc) to the same effect. The game isn't nor should it be balanced around any one playstyle, be that small or large scale. Rather, imo, it should be balanced around class vs class interaction so that each class is viable in as many scenarios as possible. And that is exactly the purpose these skill changes were made to serve.

1vX and small scale isn't meant to be easy, and yes it is currently the hardest its ever been. But whiny demanding posts that ignore the big picture in favor of selfish and narrow minded views won't persuade any changes imo.

Sorry but u aren't correct in any scenario. All these skills were changed in order to cater to large scale players killing Elite small scale players. Zos has clearly made a stand that numbers should win no matter what the situation. However that removes individuality and personal accomplishment and achievements. That socializes people in a cluster group falling in one stereotypical category. This is literally making the game socialistic saying that just because someone is a casual vs someone that is elite doesn't mean the elite player should always win. However we do know that any professional in any area of study will always outperform the laymen that doesn't study or practice at all. Casuals will never have the desire to be competitive at all so why cater to people that don't even care about winning or losing. Why punish the players that put time and effort into their reaction timing and build making and skillsets for the person that logs on like once a month. Why punish the guy that is skillfull and knows the in game mechanics by introducing no counterplay to most of the skills in the game.

Sandman929

I'm really just watching to see how many more times you'll compliment you.

Lord_Invel

Guys in all seriousness. Some people seem like they have trouble understanding what I'm saying. I'm not calling for a once class beats all type of thing here. I'm not looking to nerf a single class to the ground. But please. Don't come here and whisper me or comment me saying stuff without reading and understanding the conversation that happened before hand. Like honestly I feel like a few people purposefully just don't want to understand a thing that I stated previously in order to cling on to the one thing that actually makes them viable. Don't twist my words and don't say things that I didn't say.

This is not a nerf sorc , templar, warden thread at all. Stop acting and fooling yourselves into thinking that it is. This thread is about bringing back counterplay to the game where reaction and timing make the difference in ur victories ... NOT NUMBERS ADVANTAGE AND ZERGING.

Lord_Invel

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'm really just watching to see how many more times you'll compliment you.

Like I said before lol don't come in this thread acting like u don't understand what I'm saying. At what point did I compliment myself. Stop being delusional.

Sandman929

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I'm really just watching to see how many more times you'll compliment you.

Like I said before lol don't come in this thread acting like u don't understand what I'm saying. At what point did I compliment myself. Stop being delusional.

I assumed you were Bruce Lee in your scenario executing core game mechanics to perfection with amazing reaction time, but maybe I was wrong there.
Any skill is an Xv1 skill if X are using against 1. If you can't break up an outnumbered fight into a series of 1v1's and you just get mobbed by a group, it's not a fight you're going to win. That isn't due to specific skills (though there are a few I'd like changes to as well).

revonine

As much as I agree with your points @Lord_Invel the devs just are not gonna revert every PvP decision they've made since Imperial City update.
The feeling of hopelessness is real and soon I will be moving on.

Lord_Invel

revonine wrote: »

As much as I agree with your points @Lord_Invel the devs just are not gonna revert every PvP decision they've made since Imperial City update.
The feeling of hopelessness is real and soon I will be moving on.

Sadly I know u are right.

Derra

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Honestly, nerfing something because of Xv1 potential is pretty lame in the first place. When a 40 man KUSH raid jumps off dclaw wall to come kill your little solo self (actually solo, not solo with 50 pugs aronud you), with 8 ultimates, beam spam, shield charge spam, root spam, fossilize spam, single target and AoE spam, do you really think you should be able to do more than laugh as you kite them around a rock for 30 seconds?

Things that offer 0 counterplay should get nerfed.

Hardcounters are bad for the game. That said. There are very few hardcountersin the game: Soulassault vs medium. Shieldbreaker oblivion infused vs sorcs/magden/nbs in light armor. Mark target.
Are the things coming to mind.

Quantum_V

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

Calling others selfish yet you have no clue what you're talking about. Invel is a sorc. Please, either talk in a more respectful way or inform yourself before bashing others.

Quantum_V

Vilestride wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm a bit on the fence about these so called Xv1 skills. Nerfing some of them in the way you suggest makes them kind of useless or at least WAY less potent in a 1v1.

For instance, Curse is one of the only skills sorcs have that can hit a perma dodge stam player (esp NB with force miss cloak). I played sorc back when curse was blockable. It was pretty underwhelming and we had almost nothing that could touch blocking players (this was way before EOTS). Even now, players that dodge everything just eat the curse and are fully healed again in maybe a second.

Fury actually works now... once upon a time, fury had a really nasty delay on the execute explosion. I could knock a target to 5% with fury active on them and they had enough to vigor heal up past the execute explosion while dodge rolling all other attacks that could have finished them. Often on a CC'd target, I had enough time to finish them with crushing shock or something before the explosion even happened.

POTL, is like a templar curse. It's one of the skills that actually makes templar viable in pvp. Nerfing this skill would be like nerfing curse, it's a staple of their burst, and without it just are just spamming jabs or beam.

Making soul assault interruptible really only hurts the ult in small group. With Xv1 play, good luck CCing that in the back of the zerg gunning you down.

Honestly, nerfing something because of Xv1 potential is pretty lame in the first place. When a 40 man KUSH raid jumps off dclaw wall to come kill your little solo self (actually solo, not solo with 50 pugs aronud you), with 8 ultimates, beam spam, shield charge spam, root spam, fossilize spam, single target and AoE spam, do you really think you should be able to do more than laugh as you kite them around a rock for 30 seconds?

I kinda have to agree with all of this, you can't nerf things on the basis that they make it too hard for you to win outnumbered fights. Hypothetically if you are in a 2v1 against 2 of yourself, a perfectly balanced game would never allow you to win that fight.

The only thing that should enable you to win fights as an underdog is a skill gap. That will create a healthier PVP experience.

When you say balanced what do you mean? If the best player in the game can't beat the worst 2 players in the game, it might be mechanically balanced, but by no means it's skilled balanced.

Skill should always prevail any other aspect of a game imo.

WaltherCarraway

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

That dude is a mag sorc.
(I chased him down with empowering chain and Deadlyheals by my side before...)

Drummerx04

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cliffracer just needs to snare the caster during it's cast time.

technohic wrote: »

I do think some of these shouldn't stack if they are undodgeable or unblockable. Curse and POTL for example. And I kind of agree with there being an issue with instants that are undodgeable. They should make the animations some sort of after effect rather than mess with mechanics because it looked cool but is horrendously delayed.

Then you run into some pretty unique problems. What if two magsorcs are attacking the same target? Each one casting curse just overwrites the other and restarts the timer? That sounds like it would be really unfortunate.

magorim

Drummerx04 wrote: »

For instance, Curse is one of the only skills sorcs have that can hit a perma dodge stam player (esp NB with force miss cloak). I played sorc back when curse was blockable. It was pretty underwhelming and we had almost nothing that could touch blocking players (this was way before EOTS). Even now, players that dodge everything just eat the curse and are fully healed again in maybe a second.

I already said that in another thread: Make the Streak CC going through block and Curse blockable (this would even give stamsorcs something reliable to break block o/).

And I'm pretty sure Backlash can be fixed in a similar way. Especially Healtanks shouldn't have a skill that hasn't a real counter, scaling from the damage others do.

technohic

Drummerx04 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cliffracer just needs to snare the caster during it's cast time.

technohic wrote: »

I do think some of these shouldn't stack if they are undodgeable or unblockable. Curse and POTL for example. And I kind of agree with there being an issue with instants that are undodgeable. They should make the animations some sort of after effect rather than mess with mechanics because it looked cool but is horrendously delayed.

Then you run into some pretty unique problems. What if two magsorcs are attacking the same target? Each one casting curse just overwrites the other and restarts the timer? That sounds like it would be really unfortunate.

Yeah that's definitely an issue that I could see. As is, it's one that already is addressed in Repentance which I do not much care for how it works. I was just trying to think of some sort of limitation for things that are undodgeable and unblockable.

Soulac

Soul Assault is one of the biggest jokes.
Every skill, every ultimate should be avoidable if done right.
If you can't correctly use your ultimate you deserve to waste it.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

lol have you ever tanked endgame pve???? Hell no !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Juhasow

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

Umm...happy tanking in PvE with increased block cost for each blocked attack

That would actually break the game a LOT.

Lucky28

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

lol have you ever tanked endgame pve???? Hell no !!!!!!!!!!!!!

they could put that in the battle spirit, so it's only a PvP thing.

The Uninvited

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

For ef's sake. Stop demanding to survive against 5 opponents without backup.

5 cliffracers? 1 healer can take you through them. You don't even need even numbers, just run a balanced duo and survive any of the above mentioned skills

You people demanding that a lone wolf should be able to survive x opponents attacking together have destroyed this game. You alone.

Finally gtfo and play any other game but please for the love of tiny kittens, just shut up and diaf.

sorry but 5 trash players aren't supposed to win a 1v5 especially if that solo player is executing core game mechanics to perfection and has amazing reaction time. That's like saying Bruce Lee will lose a fight everytime he gets outnumbered because numbers mean everything. The fact of the matter is that's not true a Bruce Lee will always kick multiple peoples asses before getting taken out if he gets taken out at all.

https://quora.com/Whats-Bruce-Lee-fight-record-Who-did-he-fight-in-real-life

Anazasi

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

Ah in part this was done i believe. First off, blocking is not the issue block casting or skill animation is. Players who block are typically not the ones using macro's to 1 shot players. If its a 1vx scenario and i see you spinning up an attack and i block it thats game mechanics. If im in a fight and i am block casting heavy attacks thats animation canceling. Learn to identify what is happening and come up with viable counters. Lets stop calling for things that just are not necessary.

NBrookus

Curse should stack because it's one player's damage versus one player. PotL/Purifying Light should be modified to only magnify the damage of the casting player.

Warden ult, destro ult, sets like Earthgore, etc. -- are all strongly advantageous to the larger group. A game about large scale pvp would be fine if 1) the game's performance could handle it and 2) there were actual tactics required instead of just moving in a lag-inducing blob coordinating ultimate drops.

Meanwhile, the smaller group who sees the big group can't dip out and retreat to find better odds; they just get spammed with uncounterable gap closer snares, cliff racers you can't counter while moving at the same time, ranged undodgable attacks like curse, fury, PotL, radiant, soul assault and more.

Winning solely because you have more people is like eating rice cakes: there's a lot of chewing going on but not much substance or satisfaction.

NBrookus

magorim wrote: »

I already said that in another thread: Make the Streak CC going through block and Curse blockable (this would even give stamsorcs something reliable to break block o/).

Interesting idea. Streak is too expensive to spam much, so it wouldn't be more OP than Fear... and chances are it will be less buggy to CC break than Fear since you don't get stuck in your animation when the NB does the exploit to make it unbreakable.

CavalryPK

I don't know as a magblade I would love to have one single target undoable skills. Every time I fight a stambuild.... and they are at 20% health.. all they do the dodge cast a vigor and dodge few more times... and all of my skill sort of miss... and before you know it... they are full health.... basically they can reset the fight at their convenience...

I also understand that dodge is their primary way of defense so I will leave it to professionals on how to appropriately address it.

Joy_Division

What exactly is the gap closer bug?

People just magically assume ZoS knows every bug in the game and get bent out of shape when they persist and aren't fixed. The devs aren't in your discord or see your guild chat so they likely in the dark about many of these bugs and exploits as I am.

Dreyloch

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

If your getting hit by 5 cliffracers, your obviously in the wrong PvP format. You should be dueling or in BG's where you can 1v4 (tops) or 1v1 with much better odds. Don't even try to get stuff nerfed because you lack the insight of running with more than just yourself. Going into Cyrodiil solo and getting stomped because you put your nose where it got shot off, isn't a reason to nerf all kinds of skills. That's on you. Not on ZoS.

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares. Cyrodiil=Large scale play and massive battles. BG's= small man groups doing objectives. Dueling-=self explanatory.

CyrusArya

Dreyloch wrote: »

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares. Cyrodiil=Large scale play and massive battles. BG's= small man groups doing objectives. Dueling-=self explanatory.

Very sick and tired of zerglings insisting their way is the only way. Cyrodiil is an open world sandbox that allows for any and all scales of PvP. Just cus you cant comprehend PvP without a raid group, doesn't mean others haven't been achieving and enjoying that play style in cyro since the very beginning.

Small scale is just as much a part of cyrodiil as zerg play.

Rohamad_Ali

Anazasi wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

Ah in part this was done i believe. First off, blocking is not the issue block casting or skill animation is. Players who block are typically not the ones using macro's to 1 shot players. If its a 1vx scenario and i see you spinning up an attack and i block it thats game mechanics. If im in a fight and i am block casting heavy attacks thats animation canceling. Learn to identify what is happening and come up with viable counters. Lets stop calling for things that just are not necessary.

This is correct . The current tanking meta in PVP is a gearing and cp related issue . Nerfing block would not solve it and would hinder PVE .

Thelon

Dreyloch wrote: »

Very sick and tired of the small man/1vX BS argument. Take it to the BG's so you can feel important. If you insist on not grouping with anyone, then go duel in Stormhaven till your blue in the face. No one cares.

Valencer

CavalryPK wrote: »

I don't know as a magblade I would love to have one single target undoable skills. Every time I fight a stambuild.... and they are at 20% health.. all they do the dodge cast a vigor and dodge few more times... and all of my skill sort of miss... and before you know it... they are full health.... basically they can reset the fight at their convenience...

I also understand that dodge is their primary way of defense so I will leave it to professionals on how to appropriately address it.

Get them to half health, then hit them with a Soul Tether when they start dodge rolling. Then finish them off while theyre busy CC breaking the soul tether stun.

There's always been counters to roll dodge, like magicka AoEs. Feels like people just forget about them when there's new lazy solutions like lol assault