XV1 skills need to be reworked IMMEDIATELY.

Lord_Invel

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Rohamad_Ali

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

Lord_Invel

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

no dude. After they fix these changes they can address perma blocking tanks. Make blocking have the exact same effect that streak and dodge roll have. If you spam block for multiple attacks it starts costing 100 percent more or 50 percent more per attack. Not that hard to change up mechanics and not break the skills in game.

Apherius

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

Kartalin

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Lord_Invel

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

IM actually a mag sorc lol. This is a thread about xv1 skills that makes pvp just a pure numbers game. I already said that curse and endless fury needs to be nerfed so how am I being biased ?

Lord_Invel

Kartalin wrote: »

Lol, those are all single target abilities. Why do you think they're Xv1 abilities?

Because if u have 5 sorcs stacking curse on one player its has no counter, endless fury procs off of other peoples damage, power of the light does too also stacking 5 undodgeable cliffracers and soul assaults on one guy is a complete numbers game no counterplay at all.

Thelon

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

working as intended

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Of all the things that this company would focus on, you think it would be xv1ing?

PVP is still unplayable at primetime... after 3 years...and you think this would be of any concern to them? They wont fix anything related to xv1ing dude, it's bs anyways.

Solariken

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

I feel like that phrase doesn't carry any weight at ZOS. Inb4 Radiant Destruction nerf:

ZOS dev on ESO Live: "We're very happy with the damage of this ability."

Next patch: "Decreased the damage of this ability and its morphs by 21%"

What?

Drummerx04

I'm a bit on the fence about these so called Xv1 skills. Nerfing some of them in the way you suggest makes them kind of useless or at least WAY less potent in a 1v1.

For instance, Curse is one of the only skills sorcs have that can hit a perma dodge stam player (esp NB with force miss cloak). I played sorc back when curse was blockable. It was pretty underwhelming and we had almost nothing that could touch blocking players (this was way before EOTS). Even now, players that dodge everything just eat the curse and are fully healed again in maybe a second.

Fury actually works now... once upon a time, fury had a really nasty delay on the execute explosion. I could knock a target to 5% with fury active on them and they had enough to vigor heal up past the execute explosion while dodge rolling all other attacks that could have finished them. Often on a CC'd target, I had enough time to finish them with crushing shock or something before the explosion even happened.

POTL, is like a templar curse. It's one of the skills that actually makes templar viable in pvp. Nerfing this skill would be like nerfing curse, it's a staple of their burst, and without it just are just spamming jabs or beam.

Making soul assault interruptible really only hurts the ult in small group. With Xv1 play, good luck CCing that in the back of the zerg gunning you down.

Honestly, nerfing something because of Xv1 potential is pretty lame in the first place. When a 40 man KUSH raid jumps off dclaw wall to come kill your little solo self (actually solo, not solo with 50 pugs aronud you), with 8 ultimates, beam spam, shield charge spam, root spam, fossilize spam, single target and AoE spam, do you really think you should be able to do more than laugh as you kite them around a rock for 30 seconds?

WaltherCarraway

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

I think enormous amount of group heal which makes 8 flaming oil (defensive siege) useless is far worse than a permablock DK tank which can deal 0 damage.

Rohamad_Ali

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

And all that would just contribute to the perma block tanking meta even more . We need some abilities that have no hard counter to shake up the game . Now the gap closer bug does need to be fixed but the rest is working as intended .

I think enormous amount of group heal which makes 8 flaming oil (defensive siege) useless is far worse than a permablock DK tank which can deal 0 damage.

Don't get my statement wrong , it was not said to imply nerfing tanks further but to consider these suggestions would in fact make them tankier and that is not needed presently .

dsalter

super AoE abilities that FOLLOW the user that need to be reworked.
eye of the train and oximoronbomb are the main culprits, big AoE damagers should struckly be floor based projectiles or point blank dropped on the floor based.
anything that is a huge AoE damage that follows you is just supporting the cluster trains.

pcar944

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

if you nerf NB even more, specifically Mag NB, you literally might as well just delete the entire class form the game, theres literally NOTHING left to nerf

Vilestride

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm a bit on the fence about these so called Xv1 skills. Nerfing some of them in the way you suggest makes them kind of useless or at least WAY less potent in a 1v1.

For instance, Curse is one of the only skills sorcs have that can hit a perma dodge stam player (esp NB with force miss cloak). I played sorc back when curse was blockable. It was pretty underwhelming and we had almost nothing that could touch blocking players (this was way before EOTS). Even now, players that dodge everything just eat the curse and are fully healed again in maybe a second.

Fury actually works now... once upon a time, fury had a really nasty delay on the execute explosion. I could knock a target to 5% with fury active on them and they had enough to vigor heal up past the execute explosion while dodge rolling all other attacks that could have finished them. Often on a CC'd target, I had enough time to finish them with crushing shock or something before the explosion even happened.

POTL, is like a templar curse. It's one of the skills that actually makes templar viable in pvp. Nerfing this skill would be like nerfing curse, it's a staple of their burst, and without it just are just spamming jabs or beam.

Making soul assault interruptible really only hurts the ult in small group. With Xv1 play, good luck CCing that in the back of the zerg gunning you down.

Honestly, nerfing something because of Xv1 potential is pretty lame in the first place. When a 40 man KUSH raid jumps off dclaw wall to come kill your little solo self (actually solo, not solo with 50 pugs aronud you), with 8 ultimates, beam spam, shield charge spam, root spam, fossilize spam, single target and AoE spam, do you really think you should be able to do more than laugh as you kite them around a rock for 30 seconds?

I kinda have to agree with all of this, you can't nerf things on the basis that they make it too hard for you to win outnumbered fights. Hypothetically if you are in a 2v1 against 2 of yourself, a perfectly balanced game would never allow you to win that fight.

The only thing that should enable you to win fights as an underdog is a skill gap. That will create a healthier PVP experience.

zyk

The reason topics like this are posted in the context of outnumbered play is because there is reason to believe ZOS has reduced counterplay, in part, to reduce the occurrence of outnumbered victories. I'm not sure this is precisely true, but I think it's true at a practical level.

It is very frustrating for casual-minded players to fight against hardcore gamers with optimal builds. The hardcore culture in ESO is based on fighting outnumbered which results in a very bad experience for players who either can't or aren't inclined to git gud. I see this from both sides because I play solo and fight outnumbered a lot, but I also try to help my less experienced teammates when they're being farmed. I've done farms of all types with some amazing raid leaders and I've tried to stymie the top opponent guilds when they're running their meat grinders against randoms and pugs.

What I think ZOS has done is reduce sophistication by removing counterplay elements to make the game easier for its increasingly casual audience to understand. You don't understand when you should use your meteor/soul assault? Here, let us fix that for you by making it so it doesn't matter. Counterplay has been either reduced or made trivial in so many ways.

This goes beyond abilities. I think recent sets have been designed to help even odds.

ZOS doesn't seem to understand that the strong hunt the weak in ESO because of bad game design. The solution wasn't to nerf game mechanics. The solution was to design mechanisms to right-size fights by making it rewarding for the best players to fight each other. The strong mechanics of ESO was its best feature. It's the scoring system and game design that are broken.

The key to giving new and casual-minded players a good experience is to design gameplay that enables them to reliably fight other casual players at least some of the time. And I think hardcore players would, at least sometimes, love to compete against each other for truly awesome rewards. Other times/places on the map, we can all fight each other, regardless of ability, for the purpose of pure objective play.

olsborg

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

ZOS has been nerfing smallscale pvp since release. They give more power to the zerg via skills etc so life gets even more difficult for the soloer/smallscale. The less requirement there is for the zergling casual gamer to actually L2P the better...in zos' eyes.

revonine

olsborg wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

ZOS has been nerfing smallscale pvp since release. They give more power to the zerg via skills etc so life gets even more difficult for the soloer/smallscale. The less requirement there is for the zergling casual gamer to actually L2P the better...in zos' eyes.

This. Devs have demonstrated time and time again through their actions that solo and small scale does not belong in Cyrodill. They are more in favor of easy mode setups and skills, skilled gameplay is dying a slow death in favor of the casual player that's gonna be the one to teabag you after he soul assaults you with a few of his buddies already attacking you.

It's sad in hindsight. I used to like pvp in this game, now it's just an overall frustrating experience for the person that decided to "git gud".

technohic

I do think some of these shouldn't stack if they are undodgeable or unblockable. Curse and POTL for example. And I kind of agree with there being an issue with instants that are undodgeable. They should make the animations some sort of after effect rather than mess with mechanics because it looked cool but is horrendously delayed.

Sandman929

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

For ef's sake. Stop demanding to survive against 5 opponents without backup.

5 cliffracers? 1 healer can take you through them. You don't even need even numbers, just run a balanced duo and survive any of the above mentioned skills

You people demanding that a lone wolf should be able to survive x opponents attacking together have destroyed this game. You alone.

Finally gtfo and play any other game but please for the love of tiny kittens, just shut up and diaf.

sorry but 5 trash players aren't supposed to win a 1v5 especially if that solo player is executing core game mechanics to perfection and has amazing reaction time. That's like saying Bruce Lee will lose a fight everytime he gets outnumbered because numbers mean everything. The fact of the matter is that's not true a Bruce Lee will always kick multiple peoples asses before getting taken out if he gets taken out at all.

Only if the 5 come one at a time. I think Bruce Lee movies have skewed your reality. If 5 similarly sized people rush any one person, that person is in trouble.

Lord_Invel

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

For ef's sake. Stop demanding to survive against 5 opponents without backup.

5 cliffracers? 1 healer can take you through them. You don't even need even numbers, just run a balanced duo and survive any of the above mentioned skills

You people demanding that a lone wolf should be able to survive x opponents attacking together have destroyed this game. You alone.

Finally gtfo and play any other game but please for the love of tiny kittens, just shut up and diaf.

sorry but 5 trash players aren't supposed to win a 1v5 especially if that solo player is executing core game mechanics to perfection and has amazing reaction time. That's like saying Bruce Lee will lose a fight everytime he gets outnumbered because numbers mean everything. The fact of the matter is that's not true a Bruce Lee will always kick multiple peoples asses before getting taken out if he gets taken out at all.

Only if the 5 come one at a time. I think Bruce Lee movies have skewed your reality. If 5 similarly sized people rush any one person, that person is in trouble.

Obviously you don't understand what an analogy is or the purpose of one lol.

Sandman929

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

For ef's sake. Stop demanding to survive against 5 opponents without backup.

5 cliffracers? 1 healer can take you through them. You don't even need even numbers, just run a balanced duo and survive any of the above mentioned skills

You people demanding that a lone wolf should be able to survive x opponents attacking together have destroyed this game. You alone.

Finally gtfo and play any other game but please for the love of tiny kittens, just shut up and diaf.

sorry but 5 trash players aren't supposed to win a 1v5 especially if that solo player is executing core game mechanics to perfection and has amazing reaction time. That's like saying Bruce Lee will lose a fight everytime he gets outnumbered because numbers mean everything. The fact of the matter is that's not true a Bruce Lee will always kick multiple peoples asses before getting taken out if he gets taken out at all.

Only if the 5 come one at a time. I think Bruce Lee movies have skewed your reality. If 5 similarly sized people rush any one person, that person is in trouble.

Obviously you don't understand what an analogy is or the purpose of one lol.

I understand poor analogies.

apostate9

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

For ef's sake. Stop demanding to survive against 5 opponents without backup.

5 cliffracers? 1 healer can take you through them. You don't even need even numbers, just run a balanced duo and survive any of the above mentioned skills

You people demanding that a lone wolf should be able to survive x opponents attacking together have destroyed this game. You alone.

Finally gtfo and play any other game but please for the love of tiny kittens, just shut up and diaf.

sorry but 5 trash players aren't supposed to win a 1v5 especially if that solo player is executing core game mechanics to perfection and has amazing reaction time. That's like saying Bruce Lee will lose a fight everytime he gets outnumbered because numbers mean everything. The fact of the matter is that's not true a Bruce Lee will always kick multiple peoples asses before getting taken out if he gets taken out at all.

Only if the 5 come one at a time. I think Bruce Lee movies have skewed your reality. If 5 similarly sized people rush any one person, that person is in trouble.

Obviously you don't understand what an analogy is or the purpose of one lol.

No...I think he does. Do you?

Apherius

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

IM actually a mag sorc lol. This is a thread about xv1 skills that makes pvp just a pure numbers game. I already said that curse and endless fury needs to be nerfed so how am I being biased ?

oh so you are the type of guys you see " Nerf sorc thread " on the forum and think immediatly " Hum i should enjoy this class cause according to these 78 nerf sorc thread without any reliable source this class is (OP) ... then i will spit on this class and create my own nerf sorc thread mwaHAHAHA" ? something like this ?

usmcjdking

Cliffracer just needs to snare the caster during it's cast time.

apostate9

usmcjdking wrote: »

Cliffracer just needs to snare the caster during it's cast time.

No.

CatchMeTrolling

They say too much of anything will kill you.

Lucky28

Curse doesn't really need to be blockable it just needs to be reverted back to Velocious Curse. it was always a pretty good skill it never needed a buff.

CyrusArya

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment take these words seriously.

When you start of a post like that, and then rattle off a list of demands, it has the opposite affect. Makes me wanna just dismiss your entire post without even considering it. Can only imagine how the actual devs feel.

At any rate, I agree that counter play is a good thing. I disagree with your labelling these abilities as being "Xv1 skills", when they are used in every format of PvP (1vX, 1v1, GroupGroup, ZergvZerg, etc) to the same effect. The game isn't nor should it be balanced around any one playstyle, be that small or large scale. Rather, imo, it should be balanced around class vs class interaction so that each class is viable in as many scenarios as possible. And that is exactly the purpose these skill changes were made to serve.

1vX and small scale isn't meant to be easy, and yes it is currently the hardest its ever been. But whiny demanding posts that ignore the big picture in favor of selfish and narrow minded views won't persuade any changes imo.

Micah_Bayer

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Lord_Invel wrote: »

ZOS! If you want a healthy pvp game environment only for me take these words seriously. Make power of light dodgeable, make cliffracer dodgeable, make curse blockable again make endless fury dodgeagble, and also make soul assault either interuptable or at least let us cc our opponents while they cast soul assault. Come on zos its not that hard to see what skills hinder the games pvp environment. Also gap closers from stealth are still not fixed. The bug is still being exploited are we going to wait another 6 months before the fix arrives ?

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Fixed for you.
Btw are you DK or NB ? ... Maybe DK no ? you want a nerf of everything except for your own class ,this is why your comment is what i call " selfish " and not to make the PVP "an healthy game environment"

IM actually a mag sorc lol. This is a thread about xv1 skills that makes pvp just a pure numbers game. I already said that curse and endless fury needs to be nerfed so how am I being biased ?

oh so you are the type of guys you see " Nerf sorc thread " on the forum and think immediatly " Hum i should enjoy this class cause according to these 78 nerf sorc thread without any reliable source this class is (OP) ... then i will spit on this class and create my own nerf sorc thread mwaHAHAHA" ? something like this ?

Invel is the last person who'd ever want to nerf sorcs. It's the only class he plays. He's just trying to explain the game would be better if trash players wouldn't get the better of a great player due to all the things going for the trash players and nothing going for the single player even when the single player is much better than the trash players. It's actually not that hard to comprehend lol.