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So Miat's PVP addon can detect stealth players even when they are in stealth state?

  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    Sedare wrote: »
    Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

    How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

    Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

    Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

    This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

    Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.
    Sedare wrote: »
    Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

    How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

    Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

    Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

    This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

    Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.

    I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why....

    likely for a wide variety of reasons mostly not related to this add-on.

    if i use this forum as a judge i see a lot more PVP BAD threads that are not about Miats than are.

    Its not just the forums, its reddit, FB, twitter, zone chat in cyro, guild chat, accros the board the majority of people do not like the add on and consider it cancer, and also accross the board people said the add on would be fine without the cheat alerts.

    So what?

    not saying anybody likes this or likes that.

    just saying that you cannot blame miats as the cause of low PVP turnout because folks don't like miats when there are a whole lot of other things going on that people also roundly disagree with for PVP.

    How many on reddit say they like the PVP lag when asked about lag in Cyrodil?

    But lets be very clear with this - **IF** (HYPOTHESIS) Miats is a principle cause for PVP low turnout then we have an obvious easy way to verify that (TEST) and that is to look to console and see if they have much higher PVP rates than PC becuase on console we have no Miats in play?

    Now, it is not perfect method by any stretch, consoles are different than PC in other regards but the main difference for add-ons is very drastic and so if it is Miats as any sort of significant causal element for low PVP play... then we should be able to see the difference.

    Have not myself heard of the thriving robust crammed to the gills PVP on consoles heads and shoulders above PC... have you?

    No?

    Like i said, Miats is one add-on that a subset of players dislikes and is one factor among many that impact PVP play numbers for some, or so they claim.

    But, simply put, as others have stated, the only real diff with miats is it went public while logically there are others that did not.

    I never said it is the only reason, of course the lag, framerate, and loading screen issues are a part of it too, but miats is partially responsible as well.

    And actually there have been quite a number of people leaving pc and going to console BECAUSE of add ons like this. Console numbers will always be lower because they have to pay two subs to play. There is actually a perfect way to see what people think. An in game poll, which ZoS can do, or an e-mail poll to ask all players with an active account of what they think of the range neutering aspect of the add on. I can guarantee you the numbers, just like all unofficial polls have been, will be heavily against it.

    of course you did not say miats was the only reason and thats why i did not assert that you did. There is however not enoughn time for me to list all the things you didn't say so... feel free to continue to defend starw men.

    What you did say "I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why...." in a thread which is about Miats and its impact.

    Now, really you did not say anything if we ignore content. In context you seem to be attempting to **imply** Miats is why those PVP campaigns are ghost towns and double down on the amount of anger you see.

    if that wasn't your intent.. .if you only meant to say Miats was a single drop in the lake of reasons folks dont play PVP with you anymore, that intent was not made evident by your post(s).

    As for the alleged numbers of players to console for PVP over Miats or whatever... I am very ready to see any numbers that back that claim up.

    As for your Karnak the Magnificent predictions of what a mythical survey (conducted I hope by by unicorns and gryphons) would produce as its results, thanks for sharing.

    Holds Envelope left sealed on Funk and Wagnals porch to forehead...
    "Hmmmm...."
    "Hmmmm..."
    "Hmmmm..."
    "Abraham Lincoln's review of "Our American Cousin", Global in-game survey on Miats, Wonder Woman, Kitty Pryde and Lara Croft sharing a night of passion."

    takes envelope, rips it open, removes paper from within...

    "name three things one might find interesting to speculate about but will never occur."

    look up at silent crown...

    "What? Too soon?"

    #missyouJC

    Lol, you looked waaaay too much into what I said, and clearly I hit a nerve. So if you are going to go on a passive aggressive tirade, I won't even dignify you with a proper response. Also, a poll sent to registered active users email is not some mythical poll, and I never said it was already done, I said it -could- be done if ZoS was actually interested in the player bases opinion about something. Seriously, grow up.

    The opposite of mythical is real, not possible.

    look, it does seem a nerve was hit... just not mine. Responding to what you choose to take as passive aggressive with actual aggressive is telling in that regard.

    Seriously, " I know you are but what am I ". Again, grow up. Also, blocked.
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

    Thank god! I hope there is something done. Honestly the addons like miats ( there are more, the api or ToS would need to be changed to fi xthis , it isn't just his ) wouldn't even bother me if they just got rid of the activation warnnings.

    The dodge now and block now warnings also need to be looked at, and not allowed imo. If I understand correctly the game was supposed to be reactive to your surroundings and situation, not to a warning like that.
    Edited by Jade1986 on October 12, 2017 9:26AM
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    zammo wrote: »
    I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

    This comment made me smile, and made me feel less silly about thinking the same thing.

    I played Counter-Strike for years, through all of it's problems with cheats etc. Then one day I'm watching a streamer playing ESO, and the guy he is fighting has a great big outline around his silhouette. That alone bemused me, but then the guy went behind a tree, and the streamer could still see this outline!, I was like "wtf, that's a straight up wall hack, why are people not picking up on that?".

    Also glad that I play on PS4 now.

    But remember, there are no players going to ps4 or xb1 from pc because of stuff like this according to some people. =) xD
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    Malic wrote: »
    Malic wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    This addon represents everything that is wrong with the game.

    Yes and the fact that they are just getting around to "seeing" it now is laughable.

    I don't think they just noticed it. Its been discussed on and off for a year.
    They only decided to give notice after people started directly messaging them.

    More evidence they bailed on the pvp people a long time ago. Its a pve casual fest now, and you reap what you sow. Sniffling cry babies about the price of elk mounts. PVP hacks cheats etc? There have been numerous, miat is probably the only one of them where I respect the actual player.

    He's never hidden or denied his use of it, and put it out there for other people. I think it speaks more to how bad zos is at pvp then it does to him being scum. Although, he is.

    I have had reasonable discussions with him in PM, where he in a round about way agreed that taking the warnings out for people you arent targeting would be ok, but he is right that ZoS would have to do something to fix the ability to make addons like his in the future because others do the same thing.
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Grim13 wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    Grim13 wrote: »
    Yesterday, I marked an EP player I know, from stealth, and he then messaged me to tell me he knew I was there. When I asked how he knew it was me he told me his addon told him my name when I marked him.

    I assumed Miat’s... but I could be wrong.

    Not 20 minutes later I tab-targeted an EP who was shopping at a resource quartermaster... he immediately dodgerolled and cloaked away! Lmfao

    Either miat’s is doing more than previously admitted, post-crackdown, or there’s another addon doing similar things.

    Idk about the rest of you, but I’m am sick to ******* death of the current “whatever, I don’t care” attitude of both the players and Zos toward maintaining the integrity of PvP.

    Exploits, CE and suspect addons are rampant. If this continues for much longer I’m ******* finished with this game.

    (And, NO, you cannot have my stuff

    please define "marked" more clearly.

    thanks

    Piercing Mark (NB Skill)

    •Expose an enemy’s weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 27 seconds.
    •You can detect marked enemies even if they use stealth or invisibiltiy, and when a marked enemy dies, you heal yourself for 40% of your Max Health.
    •You can only have one Piercing Mark active at a time

    You see that big a** red mark above their head? They see it too...
    But sure, some addon, maybe even Miat, gave them the name of the caster. In any case, even without addon they would know some enemy is there.
  • STEVIL
    STEVIL
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    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    STEVIL wrote: »
    laced wrote: »
    Sedare wrote: »
    Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

    How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

    Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

    Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

    This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

    Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.
    Sedare wrote: »
    Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

    How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

    Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

    Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

    This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

    Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.

    I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why....

    likely for a wide variety of reasons mostly not related to this add-on.

    if i use this forum as a judge i see a lot more PVP BAD threads that are not about Miats than are.

    Its not just the forums, its reddit, FB, twitter, zone chat in cyro, guild chat, accros the board the majority of people do not like the add on and consider it cancer, and also accross the board people said the add on would be fine without the cheat alerts.

    So what?

    not saying anybody likes this or likes that.

    just saying that you cannot blame miats as the cause of low PVP turnout because folks don't like miats when there are a whole lot of other things going on that people also roundly disagree with for PVP.

    How many on reddit say they like the PVP lag when asked about lag in Cyrodil?

    But lets be very clear with this - **IF** (HYPOTHESIS) Miats is a principle cause for PVP low turnout then we have an obvious easy way to verify that (TEST) and that is to look to console and see if they have much higher PVP rates than PC becuase on console we have no Miats in play?

    Now, it is not perfect method by any stretch, consoles are different than PC in other regards but the main difference for add-ons is very drastic and so if it is Miats as any sort of significant causal element for low PVP play... then we should be able to see the difference.

    Have not myself heard of the thriving robust crammed to the gills PVP on consoles heads and shoulders above PC... have you?

    No?

    Like i said, Miats is one add-on that a subset of players dislikes and is one factor among many that impact PVP play numbers for some, or so they claim.

    But, simply put, as others have stated, the only real diff with miats is it went public while logically there are others that did not.

    I never said it is the only reason, of course the lag, framerate, and loading screen issues are a part of it too, but miats is partially responsible as well.

    And actually there have been quite a number of people leaving pc and going to console BECAUSE of add ons like this. Console numbers will always be lower because they have to pay two subs to play. There is actually a perfect way to see what people think. An in game poll, which ZoS can do, or an e-mail poll to ask all players with an active account of what they think of the range neutering aspect of the add on. I can guarantee you the numbers, just like all unofficial polls have been, will be heavily against it.

    of course you did not say miats was the only reason and thats why i did not assert that you did. There is however not enoughn time for me to list all the things you didn't say so... feel free to continue to defend starw men.

    What you did say "I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why...." in a thread which is about Miats and its impact.

    Now, really you did not say anything if we ignore content. In context you seem to be attempting to **imply** Miats is why those PVP campaigns are ghost towns and double down on the amount of anger you see.

    if that wasn't your intent.. .if you only meant to say Miats was a single drop in the lake of reasons folks dont play PVP with you anymore, that intent was not made evident by your post(s).

    As for the alleged numbers of players to console for PVP over Miats or whatever... I am very ready to see any numbers that back that claim up.

    As for your Karnak the Magnificent predictions of what a mythical survey (conducted I hope by by unicorns and gryphons) would produce as its results, thanks for sharing.

    Holds Envelope left sealed on Funk and Wagnals porch to forehead...
    "Hmmmm...."
    "Hmmmm..."
    "Hmmmm..."
    "Abraham Lincoln's review of "Our American Cousin", Global in-game survey on Miats, Wonder Woman, Kitty Pryde and Lara Croft sharing a night of passion."

    takes envelope, rips it open, removes paper from within...

    "name three things one might find interesting to speculate about but will never occur."

    look up at silent crown...

    "What? Too soon?"

    #missyouJC

    Lol, you looked waaaay too much into what I said, and clearly I hit a nerve. So if you are going to go on a passive aggressive tirade, I won't even dignify you with a proper response. Also, a poll sent to registered active users email is not some mythical poll, and I never said it was already done, I said it -could- be done if ZoS was actually interested in the player bases opinion about something. Seriously, grow up.

    The opposite of mythical is real, not possible.

    look, it does seem a nerve was hit... just not mine. Responding to what you choose to take as passive aggressive with actual aggressive is telling in that regard.

    Seriously, " I know you are but what am I ". Again, grow up. Also, blocked.

    Again, telling.
    Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
    YFMV Your Fun May Vary.

    First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
    "The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."

  • Gan Xing
    Gan Xing
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    I remember a few years ago when the CheatEngine was still being used, players who used it could look at their minimap and see general hotspots where there were players. I think at one point, they could see where individual players were on that minimap too.

    If my info is off about that, well I never used them, so I wouldn't really know how they worked anyways...
    Those days were frustrating....
    Gan Xing - Crafting Nightblade
    Elrana Tinuviel - Hybrid Dragonknight
    Elentári Peregrine - Sorcerer "bank"
    Rán Xīng - Hybrid Templar
    Laurïsil Imlachwen - Stamina Templar
    Helotë Tinuviel - Hybrid/Magicka Warden
    Odin banker - obv banker
    Yan of the Red Mountain - lvl 3 DK - not sure when I will work on em

    Seeks the unusual and unique playstyles...
  • Johngo0036
    Johngo0036
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    MIATS still warns of incoming attacks before they are actually released,

    it has been like this since HOTR already.

    You guys havent realized that ZOS doesnt CARE about PVP anymore,

    I reported at least 5 players for exploiting and stealing scrolls from keeps without seiging the keeps and ZOS still has done nothing about it.

    You could load cheat engine and go pvp and i dont think that they would care.
    2 new servers were added for the event way back, they are still there,

    Lag in cyrodiil is stupid yet they do NOTHING to fix it.
    What new content has zos put out for PVP, NOTHING,

    IC is DEAD, Cyrodiil is DYING and still they do nothing,
    PC EU Megaserver
    @Johngo0036
    CP900+
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    Bosmer Stamblade | 'Maui(AD)
    Altmer Magicka Sorcerer | Mid-Life-Crisis(AD)


  • cyx54tc
    cyx54tc
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    Johngo0036 wrote: »
    MIATS still warns of incoming attacks before they are actually released,

    it has been like this since HOTR already.

    You guys havent realized that ZOS doesnt CARE about PVP anymore,

    I reported at least 5 players for exploiting and stealing scrolls from keeps without seiging the keeps and ZOS still has done nothing about it.

    You could load cheat engine and go pvp and i dont think that they would care.
    2 new servers were added for the event way back, they are still there,

    Lag in cyrodiil is stupid yet they do NOTHING to fix it.
    What new content has zos put out for PVP, NOTHING,

    IC is DEAD, Cyrodiil is DYING and still they do nothing,

    You actually cant load cheat engine anymore since they detect the process name. But CE is open source, so all you have to do is to download their source, rename the assembly and dlls. Then you will have a working CE again.
  • LegacyDM
    LegacyDM
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    cyx54tc wrote: »
    Johngo0036 wrote: »
    MIATS still warns of incoming attacks before they are actually released,

    it has been like this since HOTR already.

    You guys havent realized that ZOS doesnt CARE about PVP anymore,

    I reported at least 5 players for exploiting and stealing scrolls from keeps without seiging the keeps and ZOS still has done nothing about it.

    You could load cheat engine and go pvp and i dont think that they would care.
    2 new servers were added for the event way back, they are still there,

    Lag in cyrodiil is stupid yet they do NOTHING to fix it.
    What new content has zos put out for PVP, NOTHING,

    IC is DEAD, Cyrodiil is DYING and still they do nothing,

    You actually cant load cheat engine anymore since they detect the process name. But CE is open source, so all you have to do is to download their source, rename the assembly and dlls. Then you will have a working CE again.

    How do you know this? Have you actually tested this?!
    Legacy of Kain
    Vicious Carnage
    ¥ampire Lord of the South
  • Vizier
    Vizier
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    Miat's pretty much took the element of surprise out of PvP neutering especially neutering NB's. It's pretty bad. Too bad too because many of the other features of Miat's PvP Alerts are pretty cool. The 3D icons for instance is really nice. The early warning against attacks and the feature that lets you know about enemy forces in the area you're facing is downright exploitive IMO.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I know it's only been a week, but any chance we could get an update on this? Can we expect changes to the API for this patch cycle, or is it something that has to wait until the next big patch?
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    DDuke wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I know it's only been a week, but any chance we could get an update on this? Can we expect changes to the API for this patch cycle, or is it something that has to wait until the next big patch?

    I hope its sooner than later, because my two favorite specs, ranger and ranged templar are pretty much in the toilet atm.
  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    Upfront, they should make instants really instants. I can dodge or block any ranged attack that graphically show as just landing. With Miat's, I can do the same for non-ranged attacks, the timing is just much tighter.

    There is no skill needed in PvP right now, just a good build, Miat's, and decent concentration and reaction time.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    I know it's only been 10 days, but is there any update/new information to this you could share?
    Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.


    Lots of heated discussion going on all around the forums regarding this addon, would definitely calm people down if we had something concrete to go on.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    PSA:
    Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4581943#Comment_4581943


    Already enjoying the game much more now, knowing my character should be viable in PvP one day. Gives me a reason to do the new Trial & keep playing, knowing I'm not chasing some pipe dream that might never materialize :smile:
    Edited by DDuke on October 20, 2017 5:46PM
  • Biro123
    Biro123
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    DDuke wrote: »
    PSA:
    Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4581943#Comment_4581943


    Already enjoying the game much more now, knowing my character should be viable in PvP one day. Gives me a reason to do the new Trial & keep playing, knowing I'm not chasing some pipe dream that might never materialize :smile:

    Don't get your hopes up.. I mean how often does Zos's balance view align with yours? It's still a very vague announcement
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Vizier
    Vizier
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

    This is good to know they are "revisiting" the way this addon works. When it was first introduced the forums blew up over it and ZOS said they were taking a look at it then. From what I remember they OK'd it at that time. Hopefully they take a look at this with fresh eyes and from the perspective of a Nightblade that relies on initial surprise in order to achieve victory.

    I hope they come to find the attack warnings and indicator of enemies in the area are not in accord with the spirit of open world PvP.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

    Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

    For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    Edited by Thogard on October 22, 2017 1:16AM
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • cyx54tc
    cyx54tc
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thogard wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

    Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

    For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    you need to read the post again carefully. Miat is able to detect attacks way before visual or sound takes place.
  • JDC1985
    JDC1985
    ✭✭✭
    All these small minded people crying about an add-on that zos put the code in for. Its not cheating its part of the game approved by Zos period.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    cyx54tc wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

    Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

    For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    you need to read the post again carefully. Miat is able to detect attacks way before visual or sound takes place.

    That is a common misperception that I wish people would quit spreading.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • cyx54tc
    cyx54tc
    ✭✭✭✭
    Thogard wrote: »
    cyx54tc wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

    Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

    For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    you need to read the post again carefully. Miat is able to detect attacks way before visual or sound takes place.

    That is a common misperception that I wish people would quit spreading.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaB-sXFKHdE

    what misperception are we talking about here?
  • Braedon998
    I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

    I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.
  • Biro123
    Biro123
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Braedon998 wrote: »
    I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

    I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

    I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

    Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
    ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

    So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

    We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

    Edited by Biro123 on October 23, 2017 3:27PM
    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • Koensol
    Koensol
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Thogard wrote: »
    cyx54tc wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

    Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

    For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

    Be careful what you wish for.

    you need to read the post again carefully. Miat is able to detect attacks way before visual or sound takes place.

    That is a common misperception that I wish people would quit spreading.
    Misperception? This addon shows snipe being charged from stealth even before it is fired off, and before the sound is being played. It seems as if you are a bit late to the party mate.

    Your original comment is also completely false. ZOS making alterations to the API doesn't in any shape or form mean that your ability to detect sound cues in the game will be removed.
    Edited by Koensol on October 25, 2017 8:49AM
  • haakira
    haakira
    ✭✭✭
    Biro123 wrote: »
    Braedon998 wrote: »
    I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

    I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

    I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

    Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
    ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

    So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

    We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

    CHEAT
    Verb

    Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
    ‘she always cheats at cards’

    Are you at a dishonest advantage while using Miat's vs someone who isn't? Yes, it's a fact.

    If I go play Counter Strike and use wall hacks to see people through walls, am I cheating?Yes, It's a fact.

    The fact that it isn't acknowledged yet does not make it legit on its own.

    It's like people who back then used drugs in professional competitions to give them advantage over other athletes. There weren't any regulations back then to control this issues but it doesn't make it any less cheating now does it?

    You guys sound like ZoS is your god and your command and their word is the final one on things that happen on every online game. Just because they're doing a poor job at regulating this doesn't mean anything in relation to it's true nature ( cheating )
    Edited by haakira on October 25, 2017 11:12AM
  • Biro123
    Biro123
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    haakira wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    Braedon998 wrote: »
    I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

    I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

    I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

    Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
    ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

    So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

    We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

    CHEAT
    Verb

    Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
    ‘she always cheats at cards’

    Are you at a dishonest advantage while using Miat's vs someone who isn't? Yes, it's a fact.

    If I go play Counter Strike and use wall hacks to see people through walls, am I cheating?Yes, It's a fact.

    The fact that it isn't acknowledged yet does not make it legit on its own.

    It's like people who back then used drugs in professional competitions to give them advantage over other athletes. There weren't any regulations back then to control this issues but it doesn't make it any less cheating now does it?

    You guys sound like ZoS is your god and your command and their word is the final one on things that happen on every online game. Just because they're doing a poor job at regulating this doesn't mean anything in relation to it's true nature ( cheating )

    Wall hacks (which are cheating) are very different to addons. Is using a trading addon cheating because it leaves you richer than the next man?

    By your definition, what is dishonest about using it? I'm not lying about it anything. Anybody can get it and use it. Now it *could* be viewed as dishonest IF the addon was kept secret and only used by/available to a few people - but it isn't. Its open to all.

    And ZOZ's word IS final. Its like in professional competitions, where drugs weren't actually illegal (and so weren't technically cheating) UNTIL the governing body decided that they were - THEN they were classed as cheating.
    I'm like you and don't like what the addon does - just like I don't like the idea of performance-enhancing drugs.. but until the authorities decide to make them illegal, they are not cheating.

    Lets look at another example - since you brought up performance enhancing drugs... Lets talk running spikes. They give an advantage. When they were first invented, and the first person wore them in a competitive race, was he cheating? DO you think there was a debate about it, with people on both sides? I expect so. Did the governing bodies decide to allow them? Yes! Does anybody view them as cheating now? NO - because they have been legal for some time, and everybody uses them.

    Miats is just like BOTH the drugs and the running spikes examples.. One is currently viewed as cheating (and therefore in your mind was always cheating) - because the authorities decided so.
    The other is NOT viewed as cheating - again because the authorities decided so.






    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
  • haakira
    haakira
    ✭✭✭
    Biro123 wrote: »
    haakira wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    Braedon998 wrote: »
    I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

    I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

    I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

    Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
    ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

    So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

    We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

    CHEAT
    Verb

    Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
    ‘she always cheats at cards’

    Are you at a dishonest advantage while using Miat's vs someone who isn't? Yes, it's a fact.

    If I go play Counter Strike and use wall hacks to see people through walls, am I cheating?Yes, It's a fact.

    The fact that it isn't acknowledged yet does not make it legit on its own.

    It's like people who back then used drugs in professional competitions to give them advantage over other athletes. There weren't any regulations back then to control this issues but it doesn't make it any less cheating now does it?

    You guys sound like ZoS is your god and your command and their word is the final one on things that happen on every online game. Just because they're doing a poor job at regulating this doesn't mean anything in relation to it's true nature ( cheating )

    Wall hacks (which are cheating) are very different to addons. Is using a trading addon cheating because it leaves you richer than the next man?

    By your definition, what is dishonest about using it? I'm not lying about it anything. Anybody can get it and use it. Now it *could* be viewed as dishonest IF the addon was kept secret and only used by/available to a few people - but it isn't. Its open to all.

    And ZOZ's word IS final. Its like in professional competitions, where drugs weren't actually illegal (and so weren't technically cheating) UNTIL the governing body decided that they were - THEN they were classed as cheating.
    I'm like you and don't like what the addon does - just like I don't like the idea of performance-enhancing drugs.. but until the authorities decide to make them illegal, they are not cheating.

    Lets look at another example - since you brought up performance enhancing drugs... Lets talk running spikes. They give an advantage. When they were first invented, and the first person wore them in a competitive race, was he cheating? DO you think there was a debate about it, with people on both sides? I expect so. Did the governing bodies decide to allow them? Yes! Does anybody view them as cheating now? NO - because they have been legal for some time, and everybody uses them.

    Miats is just like BOTH the drugs and the running spikes examples.. One is currently viewed as cheating (and therefore in your mind was always cheating) - because the authorities decided so.
    The other is NOT viewed as cheating - again because the authorities decided so.

    Wall hacks are in no way different to an add on except you don't have an "official" website to go and download it. I'm sure if you do a google search and get to some forums, ask some people, it's just as a available to the general public.

    Let's continue to compare it to what a wall hack does, just for the sake of the argument though:
    With the knowledge you get from knowing where certain players are, you can adjust your movements and your position to gain unfair advantage on your opponent.

    Now Miat's let's you know pretty much whatever your opponent is doing, in stealth or not, so you can adjust your movements and your position to gain unfair advantage on your opponent.

    It is in fact, absolutely no different the type of advantage it gives you in comparison to a wall hack. And that's cheating, either Zenimax decides it is or it isn't.

    Why? Because it's the same on any other online game that already has this jurisdictions applied. If you use tools, that are easily available to you or not, to gain unfair advantage over any individual, you are cheating.

    It's not like this is a feature of the base game where you're allowed to know people's actions. It totally counters a lot of different play styles. And if a company is going to allow something like this on a competitive online PVP game, then I have serious doubts in the integrity of the people behind this project.
    Edited by haakira on October 25, 2017 12:14PM
  • Biro123
    Biro123
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    haakira wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    haakira wrote: »
    Biro123 wrote: »
    Braedon998 wrote: »
    I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

    I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

    I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

    Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
    ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

    So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

    We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

    CHEAT
    Verb

    Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
    ‘she always cheats at cards’

    Are you at a dishonest advantage while using Miat's vs someone who isn't? Yes, it's a fact.

    If I go play Counter Strike and use wall hacks to see people through walls, am I cheating?Yes, It's a fact.

    The fact that it isn't acknowledged yet does not make it legit on its own.

    It's like people who back then used drugs in professional competitions to give them advantage over other athletes. There weren't any regulations back then to control this issues but it doesn't make it any less cheating now does it?

    You guys sound like ZoS is your god and your command and their word is the final one on things that happen on every online game. Just because they're doing a poor job at regulating this doesn't mean anything in relation to it's true nature ( cheating )

    Wall hacks (which are cheating) are very different to addons. Is using a trading addon cheating because it leaves you richer than the next man?

    By your definition, what is dishonest about using it? I'm not lying about it anything. Anybody can get it and use it. Now it *could* be viewed as dishonest IF the addon was kept secret and only used by/available to a few people - but it isn't. Its open to all.

    And ZOZ's word IS final. Its like in professional competitions, where drugs weren't actually illegal (and so weren't technically cheating) UNTIL the governing body decided that they were - THEN they were classed as cheating.
    I'm like you and don't like what the addon does - just like I don't like the idea of performance-enhancing drugs.. but until the authorities decide to make them illegal, they are not cheating.

    Lets look at another example - since you brought up performance enhancing drugs... Lets talk running spikes. They give an advantage. When they were first invented, and the first person wore them in a competitive race, was he cheating? DO you think there was a debate about it, with people on both sides? I expect so. Did the governing bodies decide to allow them? Yes! Does anybody view them as cheating now? NO - because they have been legal for some time, and everybody uses them.

    Miats is just like BOTH the drugs and the running spikes examples.. One is currently viewed as cheating (and therefore in your mind was always cheating) - because the authorities decided so.
    The other is NOT viewed as cheating - again because the authorities decided so.

    Wall hacks are in no way different to an add on except you don't have an "official" website to go and download it. I'm sure if you do a google search and get to some forums, ask some people, it's just as a available to the general public.

    Let's continue to compare it to what a wall hack does, just for the sake of the argument though:
    With the knowledge you get from knowing where certain players are, you can adjust your movements and your position to gain unfair advantage on your opponent.

    Now Miat's let's you know pretty much whatever your opponent is doing, in stealth or not, so you can adjust your movements and your position to gain unfair advantage on your opponent.

    It is in fact, absolutely no different the type of advantage it gives you in comparison to a wall hack. And that's cheating, either Zenimax decides it is or it isn't.

    Why? Because it's the same on any other online game that already has this jurisdictions applied. If you use tools, that are easily available to you or not, to gain unfair advantage over any individual, you are cheating.

    It's not like this is a feature of the base game where you're allowed to know people's actions. It totally counters a lot of different play styles. And if a company is going to allow something like this on a competitive online PVP game, then I have serious doubts in the integrity of the people behind this project.

    Its only an UNFAIR advantage if your opponent cannot get it too.. Its like the running spikes analogy.. They became must-have equipment and because everyone wears them, there is no unfair advantage.

    You obviously don't understand the difference between HACKS which break into the the core game files and addons which use information specifically provided by the devs for that purpose. I'm not going into it in any more detail AGAIN, because I've already explained it, in detail, more than once in the last week.
    Basically its the difference between someone breaking into your house and stealing your pizza (hacks) - and you deciding that you want to give someone your pizza and you open the door and hand it over to them. There is no comparison. One is illegal, the other isn't.


    Minalan owes me a beer.

    PC EU Megaserver
    Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
    Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
    Aidee - Magsorc - DC
    Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
    Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.
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