So Miat's PVP addon can detect stealth players even when they are in stealth state?

raasdal

Thogard wrote: »

Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

Be careful what you wish for.

@Thogard

Just FYI, that is not true at all. MIAT's is plugged directly to the API. It is not "listening" for Audio. So it will display ie. Snipe being charged from stealth, WAY before any Audio or Visual is given. Meaning, it is giving you the information BEFORE ZOS intended you to have it.

There is even a specific video evidence to showcase this in this very thread.

haakira

Biro123 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Braedon998 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

CHEAT
Verb

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
‘she always cheats at cards’

Are you at a dishonest advantage while using Miat's vs someone who isn't? Yes, it's a fact.

If I go play Counter Strike and use wall hacks to see people through walls, am I cheating?Yes, It's a fact.

The fact that it isn't acknowledged yet does not make it legit on its own.

It's like people who back then used drugs in professional competitions to give them advantage over other athletes. There weren't any regulations back then to control this issues but it doesn't make it any less cheating now does it?

You guys sound like ZoS is your god and your command and their word is the final one on things that happen on every online game. Just because they're doing a poor job at regulating this doesn't mean anything in relation to it's true nature ( cheating )

Wall hacks (which are cheating) are very different to addons. Is using a trading addon cheating because it leaves you richer than the next man?

By your definition, what is dishonest about using it? I'm not lying about it anything. Anybody can get it and use it. Now it *could* be viewed as dishonest IF the addon was kept secret and only used by/available to a few people - but it isn't. Its open to all.

And ZOZ's word IS final. Its like in professional competitions, where drugs weren't actually illegal (and so weren't technically cheating) UNTIL the governing body decided that they were - THEN they were classed as cheating.
I'm like you and don't like what the addon does - just like I don't like the idea of performance-enhancing drugs.. but until the authorities decide to make them illegal, they are not cheating.

Lets look at another example - since you brought up performance enhancing drugs... Lets talk running spikes. They give an advantage. When they were first invented, and the first person wore them in a competitive race, was he cheating? DO you think there was a debate about it, with people on both sides? I expect so. Did the governing bodies decide to allow them? Yes! Does anybody view them as cheating now? NO - because they have been legal for some time, and everybody uses them.

Miats is just like BOTH the drugs and the running spikes examples.. One is currently viewed as cheating (and therefore in your mind was always cheating) - because the authorities decided so.
The other is NOT viewed as cheating - again because the authorities decided so.

Wall hacks are in no way different to an add on except you don't have an "official" website to go and download it. I'm sure if you do a google search and get to some forums, ask some people, it's just as a available to the general public.

Let's continue to compare it to what a wall hack does, just for the sake of the argument though:
With the knowledge you get from knowing where certain players are, you can adjust your movements and your position to gain unfair advantage on your opponent.

Now Miat's let's you know pretty much whatever your opponent is doing, in stealth or not, so you can adjust your movements and your position to gain unfair advantage on your opponent.

It is in fact, absolutely no different the type of advantage it gives you in comparison to a wall hack. And that's cheating, either Zenimax decides it is or it isn't.

Why? Because it's the same on any other online game that already has this jurisdictions applied. If you use tools, that are easily available to you or not, to gain unfair advantage over any individual, you are cheating.

It's not like this is a feature of the base game where you're allowed to know people's actions. It totally counters a lot of different play styles. And if a company is going to allow something like this on a competitive online PVP game, then I have serious doubts in the integrity of the people behind this project.

Its only an UNFAIR advantage if your opponent cannot get it too.. Its like the running spikes analogy.. They became must-have equipment and because everyone wears them, there is no unfair advantage.

You obviously don't understand the difference between HACKS which break into the the core game files and addons which use information specifically provided by the devs for that purpose. I'm not going into it in any more detail AGAIN, because I've already explained it, in detail, more than once in the last week.
Basically its the difference between someone breaking into your house and stealing your pizza (hacks) - and you deciding that you want to give someone your pizza and you open the door and hand it over to them. There is no comparison. One is illegal, the other isn't.

Yeah I guess it's no use keeping the discussion going when you fail to see that availability does not equal to "not cheating".
ANYONE can cheat, it's available to EVERYONE in any game. It's a moral choice if you choose to do so or not.

And I'm sorry but the comparisons you're trying to make are in no way related to the way this "add on" is affecting this game.

I gave you a closer example with a competitive online game, where said advantage (wall hacking) breaks the gameplay and, in no way, shape or form, would it ever be allowed in competitive play even if everyone could use it. What's the point of the game if you know where everyone is? What everyone is doing? Ever asked yourself that question?

In a game that has roll dodge and block mechanics that are suppose to be reactive actions against your opponent's movements, if you include an "add on" that tells you to do those actions at the precise moment, why have them in the first place?

It directly contradicts the game mechanics that are the foundation of the gameplay of this game, making them utterly pointless. Might as well make a macro on top of that to roll dodge automatically for you, at that point. But then, what are you doing in the game? Watching it play by itself? Hmm......

I'm trying to see your side and I'll even give you an example for you to think about.

Let's say the game was released with this notifications built-in. Every time someone did an attack with a cast time, or a big ultimate, whatever, you got a notification of what you had to do at the exact moment you had to do it not matter if you saw said opponent or not... Would you think it's acceptable? Fun? Challenging? Do you really believe this would've been a successful game?

People would be thinking "So, when does the Tutorial end?". Furthermore, they would think what's the point of having block, roll dodge or hide when I already know when I have to do it to avoid all damage? A bit "broken", wouldn't you say? Almost like... Cheating. Cause it promotes laziness, it promotes holding your hand like a baby, it promotes bad pvp gameplay.

Braedon998

Biro123 wrote: »

Braedon998 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

Yes I have come late to this conversation, and I'm not saying it would be easy to remove this issue at all. Also I never specified that people need to be punished for THIS addon/cheat, whatever, I am saying in a general consensus Cheaters need to be strictly punished. I understand that ZoS has not made it impossible for this addon to keep this function, however my "assumptions" about what I consider cheating and what others believe can be completely different. So as someone who believes that it is an addon that needs to go, or be changed so that this issue isn't replicated. Finally, I have not called anyone a cheat, at least not directly, but I will not because it is easy for anyone to get and it is something that hasn't been labeled cheating, However, I will also not hide my dislike for the addon and freely share my opinion that when I used this addon for a few weeks I felt like a cheat. It completely removed one enemy I had to worry about because almost every stamnb in cyrodil runs snipe, or another morph. So as it isn't directly stated its cheating, I don't like the addon and feel like I am cheating when using it.

Biro123

Braedon998 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Braedon998 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

Yes I have come late to this conversation, and I'm not saying it would be easy to remove this issue at all. Also I never specified that people need to be punished for THIS addon/cheat, whatever, I am saying in a general consensus Cheaters need to be strictly punished. I understand that ZoS has not made it impossible for this addon to keep this function, however my "assumptions" about what I consider cheating and what others believe can be completely different. So as someone who believes that it is an addon that needs to go, or be changed so that this issue isn't replicated. Finally, I have not called anyone a cheat, at least not directly, but I will not because it is easy for anyone to get and it is something that hasn't been labeled cheating, However, I will also not hide my dislike for the addon and freely share my opinion that when I used this addon for a few weeks I felt like a cheat. It completely removed one enemy I had to worry about because almost every stamnb in cyrodil runs snipe, or another morph. So as it isn't directly stated its cheating, I don't like the addon and feel like I am cheating when using it.

Absolutely, cheating should be punished. And absolutely, people can have different assumptions about what constitutes cheating. It all goes back to ZOS since they would be the ones doing the punishing, then they are also determining what constitutes cheating and what doesn't.
But what ZOS absolutely should NOT do is leave these questions unanswered for a year, then suddenly decide that it IS cheating and retrospectively punish anybody who has used it in the past. Cos lets face it, if ZOS can't decide if its cheating or not, how can we?
But if they DO decide that its cheating and people continue to use it after the fact - then ban away. And that'tsexactly my point. It can't realistically be classed as cheating until ZOS decide - and then it only becomes cheating when it is done AFTER that decision has been made/communicated (ie after the rules of the game change).

I know you haven't directly called anyone a cheat - but by association, anyone who says that the addon is cheating is, effectively accusing everybody who uses it of being a cheat.

rfennell_ESO

Thogard wrote: »

cyx54tc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

Be careful what you wish for.

you need to read the post again carefully. Miat is able to detect attacks way before visual or sound takes place.

That is a common misperception that I wish people would quit spreading.

The fact is that anything with a cast time is shown from beginning to end as an on screen warning.

Is it possible that whatever it is in the API that is being used by miat's is what triggers the audible sound? Maybe, but the audible portion is played much later than what will show up in miat's.

STEVIL

@Biro123

"Its only an UNFAIR advantage if your opponent cannot get it too.. Its like the running spikes analogy.. They became must-have equipment and because everyone wears them, there is no unfair advantage."

there are a couple of issues though with that position.

First, it seems to assume there are not "supposed to be" different and competitive playstyles for success in the "competition" and stealth attacks are one of them. if both sides and everybody has the add-on that seriously cuts down the value and competitiveness of stealth attacks, players using characters or classes or builds which rely on them **ARE** placed at an unfair advantage.

What if the similar add-on instead of reducing stealth attack performance stopped DOTs or helped counter them? Seems to me not all classes are handled "fairly" or at least evenly by such a change.

Sure, players can just ignore all those options that the add-on counters but "FAIR" is hardly thw word i would use to describe that.

Also, one key element with add-ons is that it is not limited to shared everybody can have add-ons. The potential for private add-ons suddenly shifts it to a "one has other doesn't" kind of playfield. Well, unless you also consider "add-on programming skill" to be a part of the "competitive play" and "fair"?!

That could lead for a great tagline to sell the PVP side - PVP is FAIR for programmers.

Biro123

STEVIL wrote: »

@Biro123

"Its only an UNFAIR advantage if your opponent cannot get it too.. Its like the running spikes analogy.. They became must-have equipment and because everyone wears them, there is no unfair advantage."

there are a couple of issues though with that position.

First, it seems to assume there are not "supposed to be" different and competitive playstyles for success in the "competition" and stealth attacks are one of them. if both sides and everybody has the add-on that seriously cuts down the value and competitiveness of stealth attacks, players using characters or classes or builds which rely on them **ARE** placed at an unfair advantage.

What if the similar add-on instead of reducing stealth attack performance stopped DOTs or helped counter them? Seems to me not all classes are handled "fairly" or at least evenly by such a change.

Sure, players can just ignore all those options that the add-on counters but "FAIR" is hardly thw word i would use to describe that.

Also, one key element with add-ons is that it is not limited to shared everybody can have add-ons. The potential for private add-ons suddenly shifts it to a "one has other doesn't" kind of playfield. Well, unless you also consider "add-on programming skill" to be a part of the "competitive play" and "fair"?!

That could lead for a great tagline to sell the PVP side - PVP is FAIR for programmers.

I do agree with the sentiment that it can be viewed as being unfair. But with this game being so flexible in terms of the play styles that each class can use, its not as if it totally nullifies a class (*cough* shieldbreaker *cough*)

I don't like what the add-on does and want the api to be changed to stop much of its functionality. I just stop short of labeling it cheating, that's all.

STEVIL

Biro123 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

@Biro123

"Its only an UNFAIR advantage if your opponent cannot get it too.. Its like the running spikes analogy.. They became must-have equipment and because everyone wears them, there is no unfair advantage."

there are a couple of issues though with that position.

First, it seems to assume there are not "supposed to be" different and competitive playstyles for success in the "competition" and stealth attacks are one of them. if both sides and everybody has the add-on that seriously cuts down the value and competitiveness of stealth attacks, players using characters or classes or builds which rely on them **ARE** placed at an unfair advantage.

What if the similar add-on instead of reducing stealth attack performance stopped DOTs or helped counter them? Seems to me not all classes are handled "fairly" or at least evenly by such a change.

Sure, players can just ignore all those options that the add-on counters but "FAIR" is hardly thw word i would use to describe that.

Also, one key element with add-ons is that it is not limited to shared everybody can have add-ons. The potential for private add-ons suddenly shifts it to a "one has other doesn't" kind of playfield. Well, unless you also consider "add-on programming skill" to be a part of the "competitive play" and "fair"?!

That could lead for a great tagline to sell the PVP side - PVP is FAIR for programmers.

I do agree with the sentiment that it can be viewed as being unfair. But with this game being so flexible in terms of the play styles that each class can use, its not as if it totally nullifies a class (*cough* shieldbreaker *cough*)

I don't like what the add-on does and want the api to be changed to stop much of its functionality. I just stop short of labeling it cheating, that's all.

I myself have an issue with "cheating" being an appropriate for this particular add-on. i consider it more in the neighborhood of an "exploit" myself.

To me "cheating" is violating the rules, "exploit" is gaining unfair advantage that may be technically within the rules but which is likely unintended. of course, when the rules make using exploits "against the rules" in amorphous language and when exploits take sometimes long times to get corrected so much that it may be seen as a defacto approval - the waters get pretty muddied.

IMO the bigger issue is the concept of add-ons and allowing "private" add-ons in whatever portions of the game they consider to be "competitive" content.

But, they made those decisions a long time ago so... might as well be griping about the weather.

Braedon998

Biro123 wrote: »

Braedon998 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Braedon998 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

Yes I have come late to this conversation, and I'm not saying it would be easy to remove this issue at all. Also I never specified that people need to be punished for THIS addon/cheat, whatever, I am saying in a general consensus Cheaters need to be strictly punished. I understand that ZoS has not made it impossible for this addon to keep this function, however my "assumptions" about what I consider cheating and what others believe can be completely different. So as someone who believes that it is an addon that needs to go, or be changed so that this issue isn't replicated. Finally, I have not called anyone a cheat, at least not directly, but I will not because it is easy for anyone to get and it is something that hasn't been labeled cheating, However, I will also not hide my dislike for the addon and freely share my opinion that when I used this addon for a few weeks I felt like a cheat. It completely removed one enemy I had to worry about because almost every stamnb in cyrodil runs snipe, or another morph. So as it isn't directly stated its cheating, I don't like the addon and feel like I am cheating when using it.

Absolutely, cheating should be punished. And absolutely, people can have different assumptions about what constitutes cheating. It all goes back to ZOS since they would be the ones doing the punishing, then they are also determining what constitutes cheating and what doesn't.
But what ZOS absolutely should NOT do is leave these questions unanswered for a year, then suddenly decide that it IS cheating and retrospectively punish anybody who has used it in the past. Cos lets face it, if ZOS can't decide if its cheating or not, how can we?
But if they DO decide that its cheating and people continue to use it after the fact - then ban away. And that'tsexactly my point. It can't realistically be classed as cheating until ZOS decide - and then it only becomes cheating when it is done AFTER that decision has been made/communicated (ie after the rules of the game change).

I know you haven't directly called anyone a cheat - but by association, anyone who says that the addon is cheating is, effectively accusing everybody who uses it of being a cheat.

That is a very fair point. ZoS needs to make a choice sooner rather than later, and then it needs to be enforced.

DDuke

@ZOS_GinaBruno any update on this?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, we have been keeping a close eye on this thread and everyone's feedback on these types of addons. We can tell you that we're planning to make some changes to our API to disallow some aspects that we're simply not comfortable with. This is all actively in progress, and we'll let you know exactly what we plan to change when we have a better idea of when we'll be rolling it out; we want to give our addon developers a warning so they have a chance to iterate.

It's been over a week since we last had news on the subject, would be nice to know if the API changes are something we can expect in an incremental patch, or something that'll have to wait until the next big update.

Gan Xing

Biro123 wrote: »

haakira wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Braedon998 wrote: »

I don't mean to be rude, or tell anyone how to do their job. However, it is time that these kinds of issues stop being "brought to peoples attention" and something is done about it, cripple the add on so that this can't happen. Punishments for cheating need to start being more unforgiving so that the cheating stops. Also just talking to the add on creator might help as well, maybe he cant make it so it cant detect things from stealth.

I don't wish to see this game die like others, I do enjoy this game immensely. Which is why its time for issues with cheating, to be fixed.

I don't mean to be rude either - but it seems you have come into this debate late. There have been numerous threads about this already - many have had the addon author commenting. If the creator decided to remove it, it doesn't stop anyone else from creating an addon to do the same thing - and this time keeping it 'secret' for their friends only.. which is obviously much less fair than it being available to all.

Punishments for cheating? It is absolutely NOT clear whether this constitutes cheating or not. Addons get all their info from the API's that the devs make available for just that purpose. I'm not aware that using an addon has ever been viewed by ZOS as 'cheating'.
ZOS have also commented on several of the threads - and have never clarified whether this is considered cheating or not - but I tend to think that if they DO consider it cheating they would definitely have said so.

So please don't make assumptions of whether it is cheating or not - and definitely don't be accusing people of cheating when it most definitely is not clear.

We may not like what it does - but that doesn't give us the right to call anyone using it a cheat..

CHEAT
Verb

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
‘she always cheats at cards’

Are you at a dishonest advantage while using Miat's vs someone who isn't? Yes, it's a fact.

If I go play Counter Strike and use wall hacks to see people through walls, am I cheating?Yes, It's a fact.

The fact that it isn't acknowledged yet does not make it legit on its own.

It's like people who back then used drugs in professional competitions to give them advantage over other athletes. There weren't any regulations back then to control this issues but it doesn't make it any less cheating now does it?

You guys sound like ZoS is your god and your command and their word is the final one on things that happen on every online game. Just because they're doing a poor job at regulating this doesn't mean anything in relation to it's true nature ( cheating )

Wall hacks (which are cheating) are very different to addons. Is using a trading addon cheating because it leaves you richer than the next man?

By your definition, what is dishonest about using it? I'm not lying about it anything. Anybody can get it and use it. Now it *could* be viewed as dishonest IF the addon was kept secret and only used by/available to a few people - but it isn't. Its open to all.

And ZOZ's word IS final. Its like in professional competitions, where drugs weren't actually illegal (and so weren't technically cheating) UNTIL the governing body decided that they were - THEN they were classed as cheating.
I'm like you and don't like what the addon does - just like I don't like the idea of performance-enhancing drugs.. but until the authorities decide to make them illegal, they are not cheating.

Lets look at another example - since you brought up performance enhancing drugs... Lets talk running spikes. They give an advantage. When they were first invented, and the first person wore them in a competitive race, was he cheating? DO you think there was a debate about it, with people on both sides? I expect so. Did the governing bodies decide to allow them? Yes! Does anybody view them as cheating now? NO - because they have been legal for some time, and everybody uses them.

Miats is just like BOTH the drugs and the running spikes examples.. One is currently viewed as cheating (and therefore in your mind was always cheating) - because the authorities decided so.
The other is NOT viewed as cheating - again because the authorities decided so.

I might want to point out that in games such as World of Tanks, there used to be an addon that went into the API to determine how fast tanks were moving, and should you be aiming at said tank, the addon would automatically aim the right distance ahead of the enemy tank so you could hit them. It has since been banned, and any player seen using it is banned as well.

ZOS should have the power to determine if an addon that allows for unfair advantages in PvP is active, or they should fix the API so that Miats becomes useless.

Thunderknuckles

I might want to point out that in games such as World of Tanks, there used to be an addon that went into the API to determine how fast tanks were moving, and should you be aiming at said tank, the addon would automatically aim the right distance ahead of the enemy tank so you could hit them. It has since been banned, and any player seen using it is banned as well.

ZOS should have the power to determine if an addon that allows for unfair advantages in PvP is active, or they should fix the API so that Miats becomes useless.

I don't care how people pretzel logic their way around an addon like Miats, it needs to go. It is unquestionably cheating/exploiting. It's also, in my opinion, lazy as someone else on this thread mentioned. I mean, if the addon also TELLS you when to dodge, block, etc...why even play the game? At this point you're practically botting already. As far as showing where all stealthed enemies are around you....yeah, that's cheating plain and simple.

Malamar1229

Thogard wrote: »

Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

Be careful what you wish for.

Sorry. Is there an audible cue when a frags is coming at your from behind? How about when I am in stealth and I hard cast a frag to a guy passing me who shouldn't see unless he pans his camera around?

Malamar1229

Thogard wrote: »

cyx54tc wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Just keep in mind that Miat’s doesn’t alert you to anything that you aren’t supposed to notice. Everything Miat's alerts you to has a sound or graphic. What the addon does is detect those sounds and graphics, however quiet and small they are, and puts it in BIG letters across your UI.

Be aware that removing miat’s Ability to do that will also probably mean removing the ability to visually or audibly detect these attacks without miat’s as well.

For example, it also might force you to lose the ability to change the sound of an incoming snipe, or to not hear or see a snipe at all until after it lands.

Be careful what you wish for.

you need to read the post again carefully. Miat is able to detect attacks way before visual or sound takes place.

That is a common misperception that I wish people would quit spreading.

Bro you're wrong. I downloaded Miats. I had another sorc friend hard cast frags from stealth. I got the visual warning before it went off. Plus there is a video above showing the same thing except with snipe.

This addon crosses a line. I hate gankers just like everyone else but IMO, let's kill this addon first. Then let's protest gank/burst dmg and address it appropriately.

incite

GTFO miat pretty plz

Anethum

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Sorry. Is there an audible cue when a frags is coming at your from behind? How about when I am in stealth and I hard cast a frag to a guy passing me who shouldn't see unless he pans his camera around?

actually, frags have an glass-broking like sound also, i've dodged not once from them cause of nice headphones, but Miats is freaking cheat.

Malamar1229 wrote: »

This addon crosses a line. I hate gankers just like everyone else but IMO, let's kill this addon first. Then let's protest gank/burst dmg and address it appropriately.

I don't like gank playstyle for myself, but gank is a risky thing, its a part of gameplay, gankers very squishy as usual. Miats broke whole this playstyle. Broken *** need to be restricted, i mean in API for PvP.

Seperatist

Well as far as i know Miats using some mechanic that works like raidnotifier, idk if zos can really rip it without ripping rn, since it using same triggers mechanic (not sure tho). And yeah stealth definetly part of this game and sadly it's ripping with that addon.

Biro123

What's so important about RaidNotifier that makes it such an absolute must-not-break?

Anethum

Biro123 wrote: »

What's so important about RaidNotifier that makes it such an absolute must-not-break?

In some content i can't imagine how to do mechanics without notifications from it. Just not enouch information what's going on (or very sligtly visible animations, or u should be in such place, that u can't see whas going on).
Such things in trials should be a part of the game to me, at least while u learn mechanics

Biro123

Don't they manage on console though?

Leandor

Seperatist wrote: »

Well as far as i know Miats using some mechanic that works like raidnotifier, idk if zos can really rip it without ripping rn, since it using same triggers mechanic (not sure tho). And yeah stealth definetly part of this game and sadly it's ripping with that addon.

Hahahaha, this means we get another round of "PvE was nerfed due to PvP" moaning and [snip].

[Edited to remove profanity]

jaws343

Biro123 wrote: »

Don't they manage on console though?

Every day.