So Miat's PVP addon can detect stealth players even when they are in stealth state?

Sedare

DDuke wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

How is an easy question to answer - since that comes down to "ZOS decided."

Why? That is a much bigger question and really more interesting - to some.

Except ZOS didn't decide this is how it should be.

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Source: http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

So they tried fixing it and the fix removed only notifications for heavy attacks from stealth. Nobody on esoui.com (which the ZOS person responsible for addons/API frequents) reported that the API still allows showing other players ability cast timers.


So we're basicly stuck with a bug that is ruining the game for many people.

Except the fix didn't even fix the heavy attacks notification. I can test with my 2h 20+ meters out. I go for a swing and a miss and watch the eejit roll or block.

DDuke

So... any comment on this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , or is it going to be yet another week of getting completely ignored?

chris25602

so i think i started using miat bc of this thread, rly the first time i really felt like a cheat is when I was on the wall at sej and dodged a crystal frags by miles bc the alert popped up many seconds before the attack actually flew by.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

Nemeliom

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

Thank you!

zammo

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

This comment made me smile, and made me feel less silly about thinking the same thing.

I played Counter-Strike for years, through all of it's problems with cheats etc. Then one day I'm watching a streamer playing ESO, and the guy he is fighting has a great big outline around his silhouette. That alone bemused me, but then the guy went behind a tree, and the streamer could still see this outline!, I was like "wtf, that's a straight up wall hack, why are people not picking up on that?".

Also glad that I play on PS4 now.

FluffyReachWitch

zammo wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

This comment made me smile, and made me feel less silly about thinking the same thing.

I played Counter-Strike for years, through all of it's problems with cheats etc. Then one day I'm watching a streamer playing ESO, and the guy he is fighting has a great big outline around his silhouette. That alone bemused me, but then the guy went behind a tree, and the streamer could still see this outline!, I was like "wtf, that's a straight up wall hack, why are people not picking up on that?".

Also glad that I play on PS4 now.

I can explain the outline thing. If you press the Tab key, you target a specific enemy. This shows up as an outline. You can see that outline no matter what they hide behind, but it goes away when they stealth. This is a normal mechanic, not a hack.

Docmandu

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

We know what that means! *PLONK* /dev/null

Ankael07

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

Can you also show them the ''dodge now!, break free now!'' alarms as well? Those two affect the game like Miat's addon.

gabriebe

Just ban the thing already. It's cheating, plain and simple, unless you consider being notified of crystal frags coming from 28m behind your back because some obscure background coding makes the data available ethical.

zammo

FluffyReachWitch wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

This comment made me smile, and made me feel less silly about thinking the same thing.

I played Counter-Strike for years, through all of it's problems with cheats etc. Then one day I'm watching a streamer playing ESO, and the guy he is fighting has a great big outline around his silhouette. That alone bemused me, but then the guy went behind a tree, and the streamer could still see this outline!, I was like "wtf, that's a straight up wall hack, why are people not picking up on that?".

Also glad that I play on PS4 now.

I can explain the outline thing. If you press the Tab key, you target a specific enemy. This shows up as an outline. You can see that outline no matter what they hide behind, but it goes away when they stealth. This is a normal mechanic, not a hack.

No no, I get that, I know it wasn't a hack (at the time I actually assumed it was an add-on for the tab target thing). My point is just about the different attitudes as to what is acceptable from game to game. in other games, that would be a ban if caught, but there I was watching someone getting lauded while using it openly, nobody batting an eyelid as this was an actual game mechanic.

Rohamad_Ali

Two ZOS acknowledgment in one day ?

Sedare

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

Can you also please bring to the team's attention continued use of the multiple mundus hack/exploit and continued rampant use of Cheat Engine/other cheats? They still work; they were not permanently fixed to be unusable. It's ridiculous.

Why do I pay to play against cheaters who then have the balls to be jerks and tell me to get good when they just cheat, script, miat's their way to easy-time victory? (I must be a sucker)

I mean if you're gonna cheat, at least have the nicety to just move along after a dishonorable killing blow, lol

Rohamad_Ali

Sedare wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

Can you also please bring to the team's attention continued use of the multiple mundus hack/exploit and continued rampant use of Cheat Engine/other cheats? They still work; they were not permanently fixed to be unusable. It's ridiculous.

Why do I pay to play against cheaters who then have the balls to be jerks and tell me to get good when they just cheat, script, miat's their way to easy-time victory? (I must be a sucker)

I mean if you're gonna cheat, at least have the nicety to just move along after a dishonorable killing blow, lol

To my knowledge the double mundus exploit was fixed awhile ago .

Sedare

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sedare wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that we have seen and read this thread, and have brought it to the team's attention.

Can you also please bring to the team's attention continued use of the multiple mundus hack/exploit and continued rampant use of Cheat Engine/other cheats? They still work; they were not permanently fixed to be unusable. It's ridiculous.

Why do I pay to play against cheaters who then have the balls to be jerks and tell me to get good when they just cheat, script, miat's their way to easy-time victory? (I must be a sucker)

I mean if you're gonna cheat, at least have the nicety to just move along after a dishonorable killing blow, lol

To my knowledge the double mundus exploit was fixed awhile ago .

"fixed."

FluffyReachWitch

zammo wrote: »

FluffyReachWitch wrote: »

zammo wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

This comment made me smile, and made me feel less silly about thinking the same thing.

I played Counter-Strike for years, through all of it's problems with cheats etc. Then one day I'm watching a streamer playing ESO, and the guy he is fighting has a great big outline around his silhouette. That alone bemused me, but then the guy went behind a tree, and the streamer could still see this outline!, I was like "wtf, that's a straight up wall hack, why are people not picking up on that?".

Also glad that I play on PS4 now.

I can explain the outline thing. If you press the Tab key, you target a specific enemy. This shows up as an outline. You can see that outline no matter what they hide behind, but it goes away when they stealth. This is a normal mechanic, not a hack.

No no, I get that, I know it wasn't a hack (at the time I actually assumed it was an add-on for the tab target thing). My point is just about the different attitudes as to what is acceptable from game to game. in other games, that would be a ban if caught, but there I was watching someone getting lauded while using it openly, nobody batting an eyelid as this was an actual game mechanic.

Sorry about that. It took forever for me to realize I could tab target enemies and assumed you hadn't known either, my mistake.

I agree with you. I don't do a lot of competitive gaming, but I have heard things over the years and wondered how this could go on in ESO. Especially after a bit of drama last year, where ZoS deemed that certain creative skill uses were exploits and reworked entire skills to stop the issue. I'm wondering at this point if they're being cautious about how they address add-ons that exploit the API, without breaking the API for add-ons that don't disrupt gameplay.

Feanor

@Dorrino

In the case ZOS decides to do something about the functionality that has caused such hyperventilating here, are you going to further maintain the addon? I for one would be very sad if the other excellent and outstanding features were completely abandoned. You won't do that, right?

Malic

DDuke wrote: »

This addon represents everything that is wrong with the game.

Yes and the fact that they are just getting around to "seeing" it now is laughable.

Feanor

DDuke wrote: »

This addon represents everything that is wrong with the game.

I guess the authors of the real nasty stuff out there think so too. Glad everyone is focused on @Dorrino so they have a calmer atmosphere.

As for what's wrong with the game, stealth certainly is among this. But we have had that discussion before.

kyle.wilson

Malic wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

This addon represents everything that is wrong with the game.

Yes and the fact that they are just getting around to "seeing" it now is laughable.

I don't think they just noticed it. Its been discussed on and off for a year.
They only decided to give notice after people started directly messaging them.

Grim13

Yesterday, I marked an EP player I know, from stealth, and he then messaged me to tell me he knew I was there. When I asked how he knew it was me he told me his addon told him my name when I marked him.

I assumed Miat’s... but I could be wrong.

Not 20 minutes later I tab-targeted an EP who was shopping at a resource quartermaster... he immediately dodgerolled and cloaked away! Lmfao

Either miat’s is doing more than previously admitted, post-crackdown, or there’s another addon doing similar things.

Idk about the rest of you, but I’m am sick to ******* death of the current “whatever, I don’t care” attitude of both the players and Zos toward maintaining the integrity of PvP.

Exploits, CE and suspect addons are rampant. If this continues for much longer I’m ******* finished with this game.

(And, NO, you cannot have my stuff

WaltherCarraway

Grim13 wrote: »

Yesterday, I marked an EP player I know, from stealth, and he then messaged me to tell me he knew I was there. When I asked how he knew it was me he told me his addon told him my name when I marked him.

I assumed Miat’s... but I could be wrong.

Not 20 minutes later I tab-targeted an EP who was shopping at a resource quartermaster... he immediately dodgerolled and cloaked away! Lmfao

Either miat’s is doing more than previously admitted, post-crackdown, or there’s another addon doing similar things.

Idk about the rest of you, but I’m am sick to ******* death of the current “whatever, I don’t care” attitude of both the players and Zos toward maintaining the integrity of PvP.

Exploits, CE and suspect addons are rampant. If this continues for much longer I’m ******* finished with this game.

(And, NO, you cannot have my stuff

Miat’s addon does not notify its user about Tab Targeting which is solely reflected on your client not server.

STEVIL

Grim13 wrote: »

Yesterday, I marked an EP player I know, from stealth, and he then messaged me to tell me he knew I was there. When I asked how he knew it was me he told me his addon told him my name when I marked him.

I assumed Miat’s... but I could be wrong.

Not 20 minutes later I tab-targeted an EP who was shopping at a resource quartermaster... he immediately dodgerolled and cloaked away! Lmfao

Either miat’s is doing more than previously admitted, post-crackdown, or there’s another addon doing similar things.

Idk about the rest of you, but I’m am sick to ******* death of the current “whatever, I don’t care” attitude of both the players and Zos toward maintaining the integrity of PvP.

Exploits, CE and suspect addons are rampant. If this continues for much longer I’m ******* finished with this game.

(And, NO, you cannot have my stuff

please define "marked" more clearly.

thanks

Jade1986

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Sedare wrote: »

Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.

Sedare wrote: »

Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.

I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why....

likely for a wide variety of reasons mostly not related to this add-on.

if i use this forum as a judge i see a lot more PVP BAD threads that are not about Miats than are.

Its not just the forums, its reddit, FB, twitter, zone chat in cyro, guild chat, accros the board the majority of people do not like the add on and consider it cancer, and also accross the board people said the add on would be fine without the cheat alerts.

So what?

not saying anybody likes this or likes that.

just saying that you cannot blame miats as the cause of low PVP turnout because folks don't like miats when there are a whole lot of other things going on that people also roundly disagree with for PVP.

How many on reddit say they like the PVP lag when asked about lag in Cyrodil?

But lets be very clear with this - **IF** (HYPOTHESIS) Miats is a principle cause for PVP low turnout then we have an obvious easy way to verify that (TEST) and that is to look to console and see if they have much higher PVP rates than PC becuase on console we have no Miats in play?

Now, it is not perfect method by any stretch, consoles are different than PC in other regards but the main difference for add-ons is very drastic and so if it is Miats as any sort of significant causal element for low PVP play... then we should be able to see the difference.

Have not myself heard of the thriving robust crammed to the gills PVP on consoles heads and shoulders above PC... have you?

No?

Like i said, Miats is one add-on that a subset of players dislikes and is one factor among many that impact PVP play numbers for some, or so they claim.

But, simply put, as others have stated, the only real diff with miats is it went public while logically there are others that did not.

I never said it is the only reason, of course the lag, framerate, and loading screen issues are a part of it too, but miats is partially responsible as well.

And actually there have been quite a number of people leaving pc and going to console BECAUSE of add ons like this. Console numbers will always be lower because they have to pay two subs to play. There is actually a perfect way to see what people think. An in game poll, which ZoS can do, or an e-mail poll to ask all players with an active account of what they think of the range neutering aspect of the add on. I can guarantee you the numbers, just like all unofficial polls have been, will be heavily against it.

of course you did not say miats was the only reason and thats why i did not assert that you did. There is however not enoughn time for me to list all the things you didn't say so... feel free to continue to defend starw men.

What you did say "I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why...." in a thread which is about Miats and its impact.

Now, really you did not say anything if we ignore content. In context you seem to be attempting to **imply** Miats is why those PVP campaigns are ghost towns and double down on the amount of anger you see.

if that wasn't your intent.. .if you only meant to say Miats was a single drop in the lake of reasons folks dont play PVP with you anymore, that intent was not made evident by your post(s).

As for the alleged numbers of players to console for PVP over Miats or whatever... I am very ready to see any numbers that back that claim up.

As for your Karnak the Magnificent predictions of what a mythical survey (conducted I hope by by unicorns and gryphons) would produce as its results, thanks for sharing.

Holds Envelope left sealed on Funk and Wagnals porch to forehead...
"Hmmmm...."
"Hmmmm..."
"Hmmmm..."
"Abraham Lincoln's review of "Our American Cousin", Global in-game survey on Miats, Wonder Woman, Kitty Pryde and Lara Croft sharing a night of passion."

takes envelope, rips it open, removes paper from within...

"name three things one might find interesting to speculate about but will never occur."

look up at silent crown...

"What? Too soon?"

#missyouJC

Lol, you looked waaaay too much into what I said, and clearly I hit a nerve. So if you are going to go on a passive aggressive tirade, I won't even dignify you with a proper response. Also, a poll sent to registered active users email is not some mythical poll, and I never said it was already done, I said it -could- be done if ZoS was actually interested in the player bases opinion about something. Seriously, grow up.

Jade1986

DDuke wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

How is an easy question to answer - since that comes down to "ZOS decided."

Why? That is a much bigger question and really more interesting - to some.

Except ZOS didn't decide this is how it should be.

Originally Posted by dorrino View Post
While you're here i have a question.

This change obviously severely limits the features of my addon. Can i (we) get an official stance on which parts of the addon are not desirable within ZOS design direction?

Even after the change i have some ideas how to still get the info i need for the addon to work. This will be noticeably more cumbersome and unreliable (probably) though.

In any case my intention is NOT to start an arms race with you guys. And i don't really want to spend hours of developing an intricate system to circumvent this change only to realize you will counter it with some other change

So, please, tell me which features are fine to have within your vision and which features will get an active countermeasures from you?

Thank you,

PS. Chip, in 5-10 min i'll PM you an exploit, that i found, that is very much possible with the current API. It technically allows to automate almost any players actions and CONDITIONALLY call protected and PRIVATE functions even when in combat. Cheers

ZOS_ChipHilseberg
I believe that it was anything that allows you to detect the presence or actions of a hostile player without having to see them.

Source: http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6745

So they tried fixing it and the fix removed only notifications for heavy attacks from stealth. Nobody on esoui.com (which the ZOS person responsible for addons/API frequents) reported that the API still allows showing other players ability cast timers.


So we're basicly stuck with a bug that is ruining the game for many people.

STEVIL wrote: »

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I just started pvp in this game. Hearing that stuff like this is allowed makes me glad I play on Xbox. In any other game, this would be considered an exploit. How is it not here?

How is an easy question to answer - since that comes down to "ZOS decided."

Why? That is a much bigger question and really more interesting - to some.

Sure, it might be more interesting, but a simple " this is our stance " would also suffice for some, so we could drop the game and move to a game that doesn't support things like this, or if they said they were against it and were working on it, then we could stick with it. A why would be great too, but I would be happy with a simple answer at this point.

Grim13

STEVIL wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Yesterday, I marked an EP player I know, from stealth, and he then messaged me to tell me he knew I was there. When I asked how he knew it was me he told me his addon told him my name when I marked him.

I assumed Miat’s... but I could be wrong.

Not 20 minutes later I tab-targeted an EP who was shopping at a resource quartermaster... he immediately dodgerolled and cloaked away! Lmfao

Either miat’s is doing more than previously admitted, post-crackdown, or there’s another addon doing similar things.

Idk about the rest of you, but I’m am sick to ******* death of the current “whatever, I don’t care” attitude of both the players and Zos toward maintaining the integrity of PvP.

Exploits, CE and suspect addons are rampant. If this continues for much longer I’m ******* finished with this game.

(And, NO, you cannot have my stuff

please define "marked" more clearly.

thanks

Piercing Mark (NB Skill)
•Expose an enemy’s weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 27 seconds.
•You can detect marked enemies even if they use stealth or invisibiltiy, and when a marked enemy dies, you heal yourself for 40% of your Max Health.
•You can only have one Piercing Mark active at a time

Hurika

In other news, they just realized they left medium armor in the game though they thought they gutted it and will bring it to the devs attention......

Malic

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

This addon represents everything that is wrong with the game.

Yes and the fact that they are just getting around to "seeing" it now is laughable.

I don't think they just noticed it. Its been discussed on and off for a year.
They only decided to give notice after people started directly messaging them.

More evidence they bailed on the pvp people a long time ago. Its a pve casual fest now, and you reap what you sow. Sniffling cry babies about the price of elk mounts. PVP hacks cheats etc? There have been numerous, miat is probably the only one of them where I respect the actual player.

He's never hidden or denied his use of it, and put it out there for other people. I think it speaks more to how bad zos is at pvp then it does to him being scum. Although, he is.

STEVIL

laced wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Sedare wrote: »

Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.

Sedare wrote: »

Miat's is a Cheat. It allows notification of incoming attacks of a certain kind, IN and OUT of stealth. Stealthies take note, prior to your stealth attack start a heavy or lethal or any cancellable attack. if the intended target blocks, dismounts, dodge-rolls, etc, cancel attack immediately and either move on or try and get them when it's more to your advantage.

How is Miat's a cheat? It gives a distinct advantage to a player over others that cannot be countered with in game mechanics except through overwhelming attacks by multiple targets (you can't dodge them all). "Oh but just light attack or you know don't use anything from stealth or from the list of marked attacks." Screw that. it nullfies classes and playstyles outside of the game's own mechanics and gear.

Stealth play is part of the game, whether people like it or not. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. It can be nullified with in-game abilities and items. But this add-on nullifies most of stealth play, as well as most of the heavier attacks out of stealth with

Tack on people tying the notification to a macro/script so they auto block or dodge and you have a full on invuln.

This add-on in its entirety should not exist, be allowed, or anything else. Add-ons in general need to have some kind of approval process (oh noes ZoS will actually have to do some work) so they may not be implemented publicly or privately (i.e. miat for 1 and never released to the public). This game is abused to the extreme. There's no wonder pvp is dying, an indicator of the game pop.

Miat's is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat. It is a cheat.

I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why....

likely for a wide variety of reasons mostly not related to this add-on.

if i use this forum as a judge i see a lot more PVP BAD threads that are not about Miats than are.

Its not just the forums, its reddit, FB, twitter, zone chat in cyro, guild chat, accros the board the majority of people do not like the add on and consider it cancer, and also accross the board people said the add on would be fine without the cheat alerts.

So what?

not saying anybody likes this or likes that.

just saying that you cannot blame miats as the cause of low PVP turnout because folks don't like miats when there are a whole lot of other things going on that people also roundly disagree with for PVP.

How many on reddit say they like the PVP lag when asked about lag in Cyrodil?

But lets be very clear with this - **IF** (HYPOTHESIS) Miats is a principle cause for PVP low turnout then we have an obvious easy way to verify that (TEST) and that is to look to console and see if they have much higher PVP rates than PC becuase on console we have no Miats in play?

Now, it is not perfect method by any stretch, consoles are different than PC in other regards but the main difference for add-ons is very drastic and so if it is Miats as any sort of significant causal element for low PVP play... then we should be able to see the difference.

Have not myself heard of the thriving robust crammed to the gills PVP on consoles heads and shoulders above PC... have you?

No?

Like i said, Miats is one add-on that a subset of players dislikes and is one factor among many that impact PVP play numbers for some, or so they claim.

But, simply put, as others have stated, the only real diff with miats is it went public while logically there are others that did not.

I never said it is the only reason, of course the lag, framerate, and loading screen issues are a part of it too, but miats is partially responsible as well.

And actually there have been quite a number of people leaving pc and going to console BECAUSE of add ons like this. Console numbers will always be lower because they have to pay two subs to play. There is actually a perfect way to see what people think. An in game poll, which ZoS can do, or an e-mail poll to ask all players with an active account of what they think of the range neutering aspect of the add on. I can guarantee you the numbers, just like all unofficial polls have been, will be heavily against it.

of course you did not say miats was the only reason and thats why i did not assert that you did. There is however not enoughn time for me to list all the things you didn't say so... feel free to continue to defend starw men.

What you did say "I remember when the 7 day campaigns had at least TWO bars, sometimes three. They are ghost towns now. Hmm, I wonder why...." in a thread which is about Miats and its impact.

Now, really you did not say anything if we ignore content. In context you seem to be attempting to **imply** Miats is why those PVP campaigns are ghost towns and double down on the amount of anger you see.

if that wasn't your intent.. .if you only meant to say Miats was a single drop in the lake of reasons folks dont play PVP with you anymore, that intent was not made evident by your post(s).

As for the alleged numbers of players to console for PVP over Miats or whatever... I am very ready to see any numbers that back that claim up.

As for your Karnak the Magnificent predictions of what a mythical survey (conducted I hope by by unicorns and gryphons) would produce as its results, thanks for sharing.

Holds Envelope left sealed on Funk and Wagnals porch to forehead...
"Hmmmm...."
"Hmmmm..."
"Hmmmm..."
"Abraham Lincoln's review of "Our American Cousin", Global in-game survey on Miats, Wonder Woman, Kitty Pryde and Lara Croft sharing a night of passion."

takes envelope, rips it open, removes paper from within...

"name three things one might find interesting to speculate about but will never occur."

look up at silent crown...

"What? Too soon?"

#missyouJC

Lol, you looked waaaay too much into what I said, and clearly I hit a nerve. So if you are going to go on a passive aggressive tirade, I won't even dignify you with a proper response. Also, a poll sent to registered active users email is not some mythical poll, and I never said it was already done, I said it -could- be done if ZoS was actually interested in the player bases opinion about something. Seriously, grow up.

The opposite of mythical is real, not possible.

look, it does seem a nerve was hit... just not mine. Responding to what you choose to take as passive aggressive with actual aggressive is telling in that regard.

STEVIL

Grim13 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Grim13 wrote: »

Yesterday, I marked an EP player I know, from stealth, and he then messaged me to tell me he knew I was there. When I asked how he knew it was me he told me his addon told him my name when I marked him.

I assumed Miat’s... but I could be wrong.

Not 20 minutes later I tab-targeted an EP who was shopping at a resource quartermaster... he immediately dodgerolled and cloaked away! Lmfao

Either miat’s is doing more than previously admitted, post-crackdown, or there’s another addon doing similar things.

Idk about the rest of you, but I’m am sick to ******* death of the current “whatever, I don’t care” attitude of both the players and Zos toward maintaining the integrity of PvP.

Exploits, CE and suspect addons are rampant. If this continues for much longer I’m ******* finished with this game.

(And, NO, you cannot have my stuff

please define "marked" more clearly.

thanks

Piercing Mark (NB Skill)
•Expose an enemy’s weaknesses to afflict them with Major Fracture and Major Breach, reducing their Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 5280 for 27 seconds.
•You can detect marked enemies even if they use stealth or invisibiltiy, and when a marked enemy dies, you heal yourself for 40% of your Max Health.
•You can only have one Piercing Mark active at a time

That was what i thought.

thanks.

Now my thought is how many buff trackers (add-on or in-game) and debuff trackers would *not* have shown the buffs placed on the enemy even while you are in stealth, if not your name?