ZoS WTH? Why are you nerfing the DLC dungeons?

josiahva

So I read the patch notes for the upcoming horns of the reach DLC, and while I have no opinion on most of it...this is concerning. ZoS is nerfing vWGT(again), vICP(again), vCoS, AND vRoM. Why? What did we do for you to make some of the ONLY fun and challenging 4-man content in the game easier? Don't we have enough faceroll easy dungeons? I barely even play non-DLC dungeons anymore because they are so pathetically easy...PLEASE don't do the same thing to the DLC dungeons. Yes, the inhibitor and xal-nur are hard fights...but they should be, this is your elite dungeon content, you have normal mode to faceroll, leave our vet dungeons alone! Xal-Nur doesnt need a nerf to his charge...or his roar. It goes like this as a tank...
1. Xal Nur fears you.....you break free
2. Xal Nur charges....you block and interrupt his charge by standing blocking in his AoE
3. Re-taunt Xal Nur to re-apply his aggro on you

I do this routinely on a tank with just 20k stam with NO BLOCK COST REDUCTION aside from some CP in shadow ward. My armor isnt sturdy....I dont use cost reduction glyphs...I do all that with 20k stam in between casting rapids to run 1st leg of spice. WHY ARE YOU REDUCING HIS CHARGES AND HIS BREAKING OF TAUNT? If a tank cant handle all that, thats a learn to play issue.

The same applies to the nerfs to vICP and vWGT. These are elite dungeons...please leave them alone. Already they can be done by any halfway competent group.We want HARDER 4-man content, not easier, this is NOT the way to make people feel they are getting stronger, all it does is take away the challenge for people like me, who enjoy pugging these dungeons...the last thing I want is another Elden Hollow I...I never run that place, pledge or not.

Erraln

I enjoy the difficulty too, man, but they have the stats. The completion per attempt rating must be too low for their liking.

Mojmir

they been out for awhile, it was bound to happen. too many complaints from PUGs and casuals?

Joy_Division

They are nerfing these dungeons because with the Morrowind nerfs, the '"ceiling" needed for player skill to complete them is too high in their eyes.

Saw this - and called this - coming during the Morrowind PTS process.

Turelus

Mojmir wrote: »

they been out for awhile, it was bound to happen. too many complaints from PUGs and casuals?

Hell even competent players I know CBA to do it veteran on daily because it requires thinking an effort.

Toning them back a little isn't a bad thing, there is plenty of hard content still as well as two new dungeons this update.

Taleof2Cities

Has the OP actually read the patch note for vICP and vWGT?

I would hardly call these alterations a nerf ...


Dungeons

• Imperial City Prison
  • Reduced the amount of monsters the Overfiend calls for assistance.
  • Reduced the health of Lord Warden Dusk’s clones.
• White-Gold Tower
  • Two players can now receive the Moth Priest's vision instead of just one throughout the encounter. 
  • Plane Meld Rifts are now easier to target.
  • Plane Meld Rifts now have less health in Veteran mode.

Tryxus

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Has the OP actually read the patch note for vICP and vWGT?

I would hardly call these alterations a nerf ...


Dungeons

• Imperial City Prison
  • Reduced the amount of monsters the Overfiend calls for assistance.
  • Reduced the health of Lord Warden Dusk’s clones.
• White-Gold Tower
  • Two players can now receive the Moth Priest's vision instead of just one throughout the encounter. 
  • Plane Meld Rifts are now easier to target.
  • Plane Meld Rifts now have less health in Veteran mode.

Those are big nerfs, really

dirtykdx

Agree. Clearing all achievements on the DLC dungeons takes some effort now. Afterwards? Not so much.

FWIW I hadn't done the no death, speed run, no charge on chudan, no wamesu on Xal Nur, or cleared hardmode on vRoM prior to the update. It didn't take long at working on it to clear them all (maybe 4 total sessions of about 2 hours a piece). Beings it is something at awards a skin, it ought to be something people have a little more to work on besides face rolling.

Tasear

vWGT rifts needed less health there's was latency issues causing this to be harder for some players. I saw a lot of players having trouble with them during free eso plus. Also it's was notoriously not good spot for healers or tanks because they don't have do to kill portal.

zyk

/boo

Twohothardware

Because the overwhelming majority of runs for both Normal and Vet Dungeons is random matchmade groups and the success rate for these particular dungeons is beyond abyssomal for those groups. When you can't manage to complete the dungeon with multiple different groups then players lose interest in playing.

Vet Trials is what should be the more challenging aspect for PvE Veteran players rather than Dungeons and if you need more than that then get gud and go play PvP.

zyk

Twohothardware wrote: »

Vet Trials is what should be the more challenging aspect for PvE Veteran players rather than Dungeons and if you need more than that then get gud and go play PvP.

I disagree completely. There should be challenging aspirational content for groups of all sizes. Especially content that was already designed that way. In effect, ZOS is taking this content away from an audience that presently enjoys it and giving it to another. That's poor form, IMO.

In the grand scheme of MMOs, these mechanics were already not very difficult. The problem is that ZOS does a very poor job of preparing players for more interesting content. This is especially true of less social ultracasuals who seem to be the target audience now.

Doctordarkspawn

Their ajusting content for the new balance, finally.

Get over it or leave. The way they've been doing difficulty isn't fun.

zyk

I love the irony. Player says:

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Get over it or leave. The way they've been doing difficulty isn't fun.

Player's sig:

To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

Zlewozmywak

They really should add 3rd difficulty lvl soon. Most ppl from my friend list are logging 1-2 times a week for some vet trials only now

Vaoh

These are good changes. A lot of the game is becoming more accessible to players that aren't super great, and the hardest dungeons (and specifically bosses that wipe groups) nerfed a bit which is totally fine imo. More friendly to noobies

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Their ajusting content for the new balance, finally.

Get over it or leave. The way they've been doing difficulty isn't fun.

These nerfs are definitely good for the game.

Remember when you used to hate on me cause my videos of soloing bosses worried you that all of these dungeons would eventually be getting buffed? lucky you

FakeFox

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Their ajusting content for the new balance, finally.

Get over it or leave. The way they've been doing difficulty isn't fun.

This would be correct if the new balance would have made the game harder, but it really didn't.
Sustain is a issue now, that's all. It's not harder, just different. Of course it takes some time to adjust in which it's harder, but at the end you can still have more then enough DPS to faceroll through everything. When there is something you can't just nuke it's because of certain mechanics, but those aren't based on stats so they didn't change at all.

Minaithelan

IDK why people complain about those nerfs. Usually if you already have all gear you worry about vet trials. Vet dungeons for pledges, unless you already have your monster set. I think this nerf is ok because it brings newer people to end-game content faster.

DRXHarbinger

The ICP "nerf" wasn't even the right one, all they needed for scrubs was the reduce the permasnare in the Overfiend and perhaps reduce the number of Atros that spawn on Ibomez. That's it.

The WGT Portal thing...all that will happen now is some scrub gets the boon and will think...meh let the other guy do it.

DenniMyuu

ICP and WGT have already been nerfed and its been a walk in the park if you've been through a few times. But now it's just sad.

Feanor

I still don't get why the Vet versions get touched. If you can't beat vet then normal is the place for you. Even grants a key. It's not like everyone is forced to do the harder Vet version. ICP and WGT were not hard after they had been already nerfed. I don't get this at all.

IwakuraLain42

The problem with these dungeons (in my opinion) is that this is DLC content that is sold and needs to sell.

Most (non-)elite player that I know actually fear running the SotH (and to a lesser extend) and IC dungeons, the former even on Normal. While I agree that there should be challenging content for elite player the fact remains that these DLCs need to sell. I'm pretty sure the completion rate of the Veteran versions is very low. All in all I think these are sensible changes.

UrbanMonk

In my opinion, this is one of the another attempt of ZOS to bring the CEILING DOWN for casual players. For the experienced players, these dungeons anyway at present do no give any challenge. Experienced groups can do vWGT/ Mazzatun/ ICP in lest than 20 min as DPS simply overrides the mechanics in these places (except for a few instances) and the fights become way too easy.

Yes it is true that there is a large population of players out there for whom doing these dungeons in vet mode still presents a big challenge but that is part of their personal progression. And as they get proficient with mechanics and their DPS/ Group coordination gets better, soon these dungeons will become nothing but chore for them.

However on the point of changes as mentioned in the patch, they are not too much of a nerf but yes things get easier.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Has the OP actually read the patch note for vICP and vWGT?

I would hardly call these alterations a nerf ...


Dungeons

• Imperial City Prison
  • Reduced the amount of monsters the Overfiend calls for assistance.- At present we anyway skip all mechanics including the harvester but for new players this makes their life much easier with less adds they deal with unless the tank is really good with chains and talons.
  • Reduced the health of Lord Warden Dusk’s clones. - It doesn't make any difference to the fight in my opinion as the challenges are placement of orbs, avoiding the floor mechanics an etc etc.
• White-Gold Tower
  • Two players can now receive the Moth Priest's vision instead of just one throughout the encounter. -Experienced players now completely ignore this phase and just burn the boss, but with this change there is a high possibility of 1 DD getting the visions along with either a healer or tank, so for uncoordinated groups this will make things easier for sure.
  • Plane Meld Rifts are now easier to target.
  • Plane Meld Rifts now have less health in Veteran mode.

So, for my personal game play these changes doesn't effect a bit apart from making these counters even more easier.

Slurg

Casual opinion: Personally, I prefer to duo 4-person dungeons. But I have normal mode on normal dungeons for that, I don't want them to nerf veteran mode on DLC dungeons for my convenience.

But if they're trying to get more sales of the DLC dungeons, and a lot of people assume they're too hard and won't buy them, it makes sense. Nothing seems to matter as much as getting people to spend more money.

Kneighbors

I'm happy with the nerfs and yea I made these dungeons on vet over a good hundred of times in all roles. In most of them there's a good amount of bugs and it is good to see some compensating side.

It's like when trying to explain the mechanics of Dranos Velandor, how do I explain that he's constantly skipping mechanics? "Look, you won't see him a heavy attack, but it is there, block until you feel the strike". Or vICP when there's only one teleport instead of two and the boss is flying up. I can go with a huge list of bugs in these dungeons and if you don't know what I'm talking about then you must play alil more there.

Magdalina

They're nerfing them at the same time as introducing 2 new (hopefully) challenging dungeons. I find it sad but it was to be expected. They're trying to open old dlc dungeons up to more casual folks. I see what they're trying to do but imo the principle they're going on is wrong.

The things they nerfed were specific mechanics forcing you to follow them. They should stop encouraging blissful idiots who happily ignore all the instructions, get carried hardcore then claim it's other people's issue if their next group isn't good/lucky enough to carry what is basically worse than dead weight(for example Planar is heaps easier with 3 people who know the fight rather than 4 one of which refuses to acknowledge the need to close portals). We/they need to make people more aware of mechanics, not encourage carrying and ignoring them.

The nerfs could be worse though. I don't think they touched RoM last boss and specifically Stoneshapers. I sure hope Reach dungeons are challenging enough to pay for these nerfs though.

Also, OP, I've tanked vRoM HM speedruns with 12k stamina templar with full mag regen jewelry and no sturdy ;P

Woeler

Too many complaints that you can't roleplay the bosses to death.

spiiros

Vaoh wrote: »

These are good changes. A lot of the game is becoming more accessible to players that aren't super great, and the hardest dungeons (and specifically bosses that wipe groups) nerfed a bit which is totally fine imo. More friendly to noobies

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Their ajusting content for the new balance, finally.

Get over it or leave. The way they've been doing difficulty isn't fun.

These nerfs are definitely good for the game.

Remember when you used to hate on me cause my videos of soloing bosses worried you that all of these dungeons would eventually be getting buffed? lucky you

But the problem is... the content is really not that hard. If players actually took a few minutes to see what they could do to get better, then that would be better overall and I agree that not everyone has the time to play... but in all honesty - the difficulty in this game is more tedious than actual "difficult".

DeadlyRecluse

They tend to nerf old dungeons closer to base-game difficulty level as new dungeons/content comes out (see: vWGT at launch vs vWGT now).

That's okay. If you are a serious player, you've had a year to play with everything from the last "dungeon update," now more casual players get access to it. TBH I think it's a solid philosophy.

Glass

Magdalina wrote: »

They're nerfing them at the same time as introducing 2 new (hopefully) challenging dungeons.

Also, OP, I've tanked vRoM HM speedruns with 12k stamina templar with full mag regen jewelry and no sturdy ;P

Can I be like you? teach me your ways sempai.

I gave you an Awesome

xRIVALENx

Really surprised the siphon totems in Vet RoM were not nerfed along with the other changes.