PTS Update 15 - Feedback Thread for Armor & Weapon Traits

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for Armor and Weapon Traits. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current Trait values and balance.

code65536

Just a nitpick: I think you should rename "Prosperous" so that it better fits what it does now. "Restorative"? "Invigorating"?

Edit: @StopDropAndBear posted some additional name suggestions in post #19 of this thread. Of those, I really like "Resourceful".

casparian

I'm not sure Prosperous is there yet.

So wearing seven pieces of gold Prosperous gear grants 77 recovery to all three resources. So let's say I'm wearing seven Prosperous, and I have Major and Minor Endurance and Intellect. (I'll ignore health for now since health recovery isn't important on most builds.) That's right around +100 recovery to each resource. Of course, I won't be running full Prosperous. But it might be useful as an off-trait, say, coupled with five or six pieces of Impenetrable in PVP (Well-Fitted currently plays this role on many stam PVP builds).

The cost of dodge-roll on my stamplar right now is 3716 stamina. With one gold Well-Fitted piece, that would go down to 3514, saving me 202 stamina every time I dodge roll. If I switch this out for a gold Prosperous piece (and have Major and Minor Endurance and Intellect), I lose these cost savings but gain something 14 stamina and magicka every two seconds. 28 seconds will need to pass before Prosperous gives me back enough stamina to equal Well-Fitted, and since I'm dodge rolling more often than every 28 seconds during a fight in Cyrodiil, I can't see any way Prosperous can even come close to Well-Fitted for stamina sustain.

So the question is whether the additional magicka sustain is worth losing all that stamina sustain by choosing 1-piece Prosperous over 1-piece Well-Fitted. I suspect the answer is No, since 14 magicka every two seconds is not going to make a noticeable difference in how often my stamplar can cast Ritual, or how often a stamblade can cast Cloak.

But I know ZOS maths and so I'm sure they ran through these same calculations. I just don't see the use yet.

bubbygink

casparian wrote: »

I'm not sure Prosperous is there yet.

So wearing seven pieces of gold Prosperous gear grants 77 recovery to all three resources. So let's say I'm wearing seven Prosperous, and I have Major and Minor Endurance and Intellect. (I'll ignore health for now since health recovery isn't important on most builds.) That's right around +100 recovery to each resource. Of course, I won't be running full Prosperous. But it might be useful as an off-trait, say, coupled with five or six pieces of Impenetrable in PVP (Well-Fitted currently plays this role on many stam PVP builds).

The cost of dodge-roll on my stamplar right now is 3716 stamina. With one gold Well-Fitted piece, that would go down to 3514, saving me 202 stamina every time I dodge roll. If I switch this out for a gold Prosperous piece (and have Major and Minor Endurance and Intellect), I lose these cost savings but gain something 14 stamina and magicka every two seconds. 28 seconds will need to pass before Prosperous gives me back enough stamina to equal Well-Fitted, and since I'm dodge rolling more often than every 28 seconds during a fight in Cyrodiil, I can't see any way Prosperous can even come close to Well-Fitted for stamina sustain.

So the question is whether the additional magicka sustain is worth losing all that stamina sustain by choosing 1-piece Prosperous over 1-piece Well-Fitted. I suspect the answer is No, since 14 magicka every two seconds is not going to make a noticeable difference in how often my stamplar can cast Ritual, or how often a stamblade can cast Cloak.

But I know ZOS maths and so I'm sure they ran through these same calculations. I just don't see the use yet.

I think it actually is somewhat balanced with divines. 7 divines gives an extra (.525*238) ~124 recovery when used with Atro/Serpent. This gives +77 recovery but for all 3 stats. That being said, I agree that nobody will use it.

Lord_Eomer

Loving new changes to weapon traits through sharpen and defending can use little buff to 4K

GreenSoup2HoT

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Loving new changes to weapon traits through sharpen and defending can use little buff to 4K

Weapon Traits
Developer Comments: Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Almost all Weapon Traits were buffed, with the exception of Sharpened and Defending which were nerfed due to them over-performing. They should still remain one of the strongest options for increasing your damage or survivability, but now the power difference between them and other traits is no longer so massive.

Prosperous was completely re-designed to grant a new combat function and will be an interesting choice for builds seeking to maximize resource recovery gains. Pairing the Divines trait with a recovery Mundus Stone will grant more recovery for that particular stat, but Prosperous will grant more recovery overall.

For once we actually have more trait viability and you vouch to have it remain bis? Gimme a break.

Lord_Eomer

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Loving new changes to weapon traits through sharpen and defending can use little buff to 4K

Weapon Traits
Developer Comments: Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Almost all Weapon Traits were buffed, with the exception of Sharpened and Defending which were nerfed due to them over-performing. They should still remain one of the strongest options for increasing your damage or survivability, but now the power difference between them and other traits is no longer so massive.

Prosperous was completely re-designed to grant a new combat function and will be an interesting choice for builds seeking to maximize resource recovery gains. Pairing the Divines trait with a recovery Mundus Stone will grant more recovery for that particular stat, but Prosperous will grant more recovery overall.

For once we actually have more trait viability and you vouch to have it remain bis? Gimme a break.

For all those players who spent lot of gold and moths farming weapons will be disappointing!

Still i am happy for other traits buff!

and yes my farming for VMA Lighting sharpen will finally over!

StopDropAndBear

I'm excited to see some trait rebalancing, especially on Prosperous (still think it could use a little bit of a nudge), but I really wish Training still dropping on max level gear had been addressed...I know people will still defend it in terms of grinding CP points, but it's still very much a disheartening thing to loot when you're trying to get a specific set from hard content.

NBrookus

Prosperous needs to be stronger, or it's still decon fodder.

Iyas

Torugs Pact + any glyph (especially oblivion) is too strong. Every 1.2 sec (flame Staff light attack) you get one wpn glyph proc (2996 oblivion dmg)

Midori_Oku

I think the change to prosperous is an interesting start to what could potentially become a decent trait. However, the numbers are just too low.

code65536

BTW, thank you for the Sharpened nerf. It was much needed. Before the Dark Brotherhood update last year, Sharpened was 14% penetration, and against a dungeon/trial enemy with 18.2K resistance, that translated to 2.5K penetration. Back then, Sharpened was considered better than Precise, but not by much, and both traits were good.

The trait "rebalance" in the Dark Brotherhood update saw the potency of Sharpened get doubled, which literally destroyed weapon trait balance, and we've been crying for Sharpened to be brought back in line ever since Dark Brotherhood hit the PTS last year.

Better late than never, I suppose. Though I would've preferred if the feedback during the DB PTS cycle was heeded and that the overperforming Sharpened never got the chance to wreak havoc on weapon trait balance for over a whole year.

Avran_Sylt

Perhaps cause Prosperous to increase Healing % Received Instead?

Avran_Sylt

Or perhaps:

Prosperous: Increases the base stat bonuses of sets by: 1%/2%/3%/4%/5%

This would allow a greater variety of applications for the trait than just resource regen.

Hmm, no, nvm. then it'd take the role of infused in some cases depending on the set (necropotence, hulking dragur)

potirondb16_ESO

I'm wondering if the nerf to Sharpened won't create an other heavy armor meta for pvp... hope someone looked it out ... I kind of agree with the boost but I don't think sharpend should be hit that hard.... would love to see an overall graph for it.

Tasear

I liked Prosperous better with gold attached. What about all the merchant players?

Otherwise it's very interesting, while sharpened was nerfed it still has an option with mundus stones.

I suppose the boost to stats makes defending swords optional. So again quite fair.

I wonder if decsive has a chance yet? I can't see a situation where I would pick
this opposed to other traits. Maybe PvP?

Otherwise we'll done, I think this deserves dounts or pizza for the crew!

Vaoh

From the perspective of someone who has played extensively since release and knows everything about all of the metas and such.... these changes as a whole are really interesting!

Excited for these to launch!

My only concerns are:
1. Precise got buffed, but it was quite good as it was
2. Sharpened and Defending were cut in half.... is this a bit much?
3. Prosperous has been made into an interesting trait! The value seems a bit low though, and it could certainly use a name change.

Very hyped

PlautisCarvain

Sharpened trait should not be needed by 44 percent but maybe like 25 percent

StopDropAndBear

code65536 wrote: »

Just a nitpick: I think you should rename "Prosperous" so that it better fits what it does now. "Restorative"? "Invigorating"?

mhm, I second this! Some more for the pile:

Flourishing
Rejuvenating
Renewed/Renewing
Resourceful
Resilient
Persistent
Enduring
Tenacious

WuffyCerulei

Yeah, Prosperous is gonna need a new name since it's not really gonna be prosperous gold-wise. Anyways, perhaps the sharpened/defending nerf was overdone. A flat 3000 or slightly more would be fine at gold 2-hander value.

LordSlif

Hello, @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_JessicaFolsom. Nice changes and nice patch!! But we have a little problem here, easy to be fix:
You will reduce the defending bonus to 2752, it is ok and it is nice, but you must remember that now the ice staff is equal to one handed and shield for magicka players.

So with shield expert and one handed defending: 3010+1376 = 4386 of resistance.

ice staff: 2752 of resistance (defending trait)

its a big diference for the same goal.
I propose to change shield expert to defense expert and add:

While you have an ice staff equipped you gain 2115 of resistance ( the total is like an one handed and shield reinforced).

Fix it, it is very important for ice staff users.

*right place now*

TimeDazzler

Sharpened/Defending is a bit too weak now in my opinion.

marcosvpl

I honestly liked the idea of balancing.
But I'm in doubt about Nirnhorned, I can not get it in a normal way, like necropotence and spinner.

Do you want to add the drop list?

LordSlif

Cries wrote: »

Sharpened/Defending is a bit too weak now in my opinion.

But the problem is: the ice staff must be equal to shield in points of armor. They made changes for this.

LordSlif

Nirn is very good now

usmcjdking

Propserous should provide regeneration based upon a % of whatever the armor enchantment is, instead of a flat bonus.

I.E Health Enchantment - 33 HP regen, Magicka - 33 Magicka regen, Stam - 33 Stam regen, Hakeijo - 17 across the board.

olsborg

Prosperous seems abit weak. Loving everything else.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

LordSlif wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Sharpened/Defending is a bit too weak now in my opinion.

But the problem is: the ice staff must be equal to shield in points of armor. They made changes for this.

Why must it?

Joy_Division

@casparian - pretty sure the values they come up with are comparable to divines + atro stone. Divines is the PvE gold standard.

see @bubbygink

Or perhaps with the Infused trait

My instinct is the same as others in this thread that prosperous (it should be renamed, good idea) will be undesirable in its current form. Divnes shined in conjunction with % damage amplifier, especially with the Thief and/or Shadow Mundas. I'd rather have this new regen trait than reinforced. 11 regen just isn't that much - especially since I played before 1.6 and know this is equivalent to about 1 [!] in the old system.

silvereyes

First of all, I like the general direction of traits. Nirnhoned is good again (yay for crafters!), and anything that encourages build diversity is a good thing in my mind.

Secondly, I like that you are trying to fix Prosperous and add another option for resource management at the same time. On the live servers, the gold gain from prosperous it is less than the amount you save in armor repairs for an impen item, so it's a trait that doesn't perform the function it was designed to do (e.g. make gold).

Unfortunately, I don't think Prosperous will be good for resource management unless it's buffed quite a bit. Divines + atronoch, serpent or steed will give better regen to your build's primary resource pool.

What Prosperous seems to be aimed at now is *overall* regen; like purple drinks, but much weaker. It gives a mediocre bonus to all resource regeneration at the expense of not giving any of them a particularly good bonus.

The problem with this is that it's not really useful for anyone. For DPS - the one role that could use regen in all resource pools - 1445 penetration (divines + lover) is going to be way more useful. Healers don't need stamina regen, so divines + atronoch would be better for their resources. Tanks won't prefer sacrificing magicka regen or block cost reduction to get extra stam regen that they can't use. Health regen builds will get more out of divines + Steed.

Maybe I'm wrong and just am not being creative enough. Maybe this new trait combined with some resource exchange mechanic like Dark Deal / Equilibrium or a frost tank permablock build will open up some interesting options. The new bonus *is* pretty decent when compared to CP regen bonuses (see math in spoiler), and it also multiplies with the CP bonuses. But compared to the other traits, it still seems like it doesn't quite hit the mark.

Strip off all armor, CP, passives and attributes, get any mundus bonus other than a regen one. Your stats will look like this.

Magicka recovery: 514
Health recovery:  309
Stamina Recovery: 514

Then put on 7 pieces of gold CP 160 prosperous gear. Your stats will be as follows:

Magicka recovery: 591 (+15%)
Health recovery:  386 (+24.9%)
Stamina Recovery: 591 (+15%)

When you look at those percentages, it doesn't seem too bad at all. To put this in perspective, it gives better regen than a hypothetical CP 900 with all 300 Thief points into regen would be!!! However, it's still a drop in the bucket.

mzdarsky

I would say these are prob your best updates.
I think
-prosperous should be buffed to 15 each.
-charged should allow this "Weapon enchantments will no longer proc if the initial attack is dodged"
-powered could go up to 10%
-decisive could go up to 42 to 44% an no one would complain.

It would really be cool if you had a trait or added it to a trait resistance against poison and disease

Leave sharpened and defending as it is or move them both up to like 3k.