PTS Update 15 - Feedback Thread for Armor & Weapon Traits

SodanTok

Glamdring wrote: »

In PvP Nirn will be BiS since sharpened and precise is useless against shields and and u also get extra healing with nirn and against a nonshielduser the difference is now like 0.5% damage less with Nirn.

Do you know about some updated math behind changed Nirn? It would be interesting to see if they took it as it is or with major buff or with the additional passives that should increase the gain (like 12% from medium, because almost all math is always done with spell damage that lacks stuff like fighters guild or medium passive)

//EDIT
Found it, looks like medium armor passive is some 0.3-0.4% gain.
Overall, the numbers throw out around get so different once you start considering average stam build instead of magicka and stam passives with it and then PVP scenarios...

If I count it right, once you take stam build in PVP so resistance is different and everyone has neither light armor passive for penetration nor stacked so much in CP or anything if its CP the nirn gets so close. Sharpened is like 4.6% - 5.6% (12-22k resist) and obviously 0 vs shields on the other hand Nirn is 4.5% (considering someone with 35k stam, 3500 damage) with 2H vs everyone.

Morgul667

Glamdring wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

FYI There are some explanation here but I am no expert at all

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

Based on it, it seems Nirn is 2.7% prior to sorcery buffs and 3.5% is after those ones. Again Im just trying to understand here.

we are talking about the new value on nirn on pts. 3.5% is the old nirnvalue

Please check the site, it was modified 22H ago and show the lover as best mundus. It seems to have been modified already.

You can also check this comment :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4318191#Comment_4318191

Morgul667

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

FYI There are some explanation here but I am no expert at all

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

Based on it, it seems Nirn is 2.7% prior to sorcery buffs and 3.5% is after those ones. Again Im just trying to understand here.

The person who is explaining things to you is using the context of PvP, not PvE. In PvE, mobs are considered level 50, so their 1% mit = 500, rather than a c160 player's 1% mit = 660. Penetration is much stronger in PvE than PvP, and Nirn is one of the weakest traits in the game in end game DPS (however not by nearly as much as it used to be).

Thanks for the feedback

Weps

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I wasn't protecting rng. I was saying that changing the meta too much too often get frustrating. That's great that some of your friends can enjoy a year old trial but others don't. Craglorn trials are even more old should everyone just enjoy running it for the 100th time for fun? This obfuscates traits which confuses new player and nerfs the endgame players yet again. If the make the trait to even people will get bored without anything to do. You dont represent the endgame players either. I never said I did. I was voicing concerns for the replayablity in my opinion.

lol, the meta, the meta.
What is the meta?
A mandatory set, with mandatory traits with a mandatory sharp on front bar and a mandatory infused/sharp on back bar or is it having a high critical rating with a cap penetration in order to achieve an awesome amount of damage dealt?

The meta is always the same, you need to reach 18k penetration with at least 55% critical and a good amount of magicka / stamina and spell/weapon damage. That's it. It's just different how you can achieve it.

Zvorgin

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Loving new changes to weapon traits through sharpen and defending can use little buff to 4K

Weapon Traits
Developer Comments: Similar to how Mundus Stones were changed, Weapon Trait values have also been rebalanced with a focus on improving overall diversity. Almost all Weapon Traits were buffed, with the exception of Sharpened and Defending which were nerfed due to them over-performing. They should still remain one of the strongest options for increasing your damage or survivability, but now the power difference between them and other traits is no longer so massive.

Prosperous was completely re-designed to grant a new combat function and will be an interesting choice for builds seeking to maximize resource recovery gains. Pairing the Divines trait with a recovery Mundus Stone will grant more recovery for that particular stat, but Prosperous will grant more recovery overall.

For once we actually have more trait viability and you vouch to have it remain bis? Gimme a break.

For all those players who spent lot of gold and moths farming weapons will be disappointing!

All those players who have gold mats from writs saved up will be very excited!

eso_nya

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

I was saying that changing the meta too much too often get frustrating.

Nothing personal, just for the lols and giggles:
The developers dont make meta, they change parameters. The contentcreators of eso change the meta according to that. If it's frustrating to u, dont change your meta. When talking about meta, ppl tend to forget the "a" for "available", not everything considered meta is available to anyone, so your meta changes. At the current state, if u r meta, all u need to do after the patch hits, is put your 10 new cp into penetration star and u r meta again. If u gonna get new gear anyways, wait until someone made the meta and go by it.

simeion

Please reevaluate the changes to lover and sharpened. I agree with nerf to sharpen to bring it in line with other weapons traits. I do see a issue. The way it looks currently gold precise and divine lover Mundas will be BIS, testing is needed to verify.

Here is what I am suggesting. This should be balanced with out c/p for pvping without cp.

Gold precise weapons= thief Mundas with gold divines armor
Gold sharpened weapons= lover mundus with gold divine armor
Gold defending weapons= lady Mundas with gold divine armor

This should not nerf the current BIS great, but make it equal and give gear diveseiry. We should not be nerfing BIS gear to boost another, we should be looking to nerf to make equal, or buffing to make equal.

Lord_Eomer

simeion wrote: »

Please reevaluate the changes to lover and sharpened. I agree with nerf to sharpen to bring it in line with other weapons traits. I do see a issue. The way it looks currently gold precise and divine lover Mundas will be BIS, testing is needed to verify.

Here is what I am suggesting. This should be balanced with out c/p for pvping without cp.

Gold precise weapons= thief Mundas with gold divines armor
Gold sharpened weapons= lover mundus with gold divine armor
Gold defending weapons= lady Mundas with gold divine armor

This should not nerf the current BIS great, but make it equal and give gear diveseiry. We should not be nerfing BIS gear to boost another, we should be looking to nerf to make equal, or buffing to make equal.

If current changes make it equal and give gear diversity then why reevaluating lover mundus?

This will be the most stupid idea to change anything with lover mundus as this Mundus current change is creating diversity and possibility to use weapon with traits other than sharpen!

Lover Mundus is easily accessible not unlike farming sharpen weapon

You are talking about diversity but infact seem like a person who still want sharpen to be BIS weapon as was previously.

There is no change needed for lover mundus!

Froil

Prosperous needs to be buffed if it's going to increase resource recovery. I know they don't want high recovery builds, but even still 11 recovery per gold piece is... Appalling to say the least.

I've been thinking for a long time if ZOS added recovery to Prosperous it might be something worth running but not with those negligible numbers.

On my Breton Warden healer I run four pieces Infused, three Divines with the Ritual Mundus, and I have 1608 magicka recovery. Simply multiplying 1608 by 0.07 (7%) gives me an additional 112.56 magicka recovery. If I replace my three Divines pieces with gold Prosperous being the 7% increased recovery, I'd have 112.56 x 3 = 337.68 increased magicka recovery, making my new total 1945.68, probably just round that to 1946, total magicka recovery which for a healer is very fair.

On my Khajiit stamina Templar, with his stamina recovery being 756, 7% of that is 52.92 per gold Prosperous armor. It's not an insane increase, but it's better than 11... Maybe replace one or two Divines armor for Prosperous for a little higher sustainability in combat.

Prosperous could increase recovery only for the highest recovery stat to balance this, but just the same it'll be a fairly low increase if you're a magicka DPS with no additional stamina recovery and vice-versa for stamina DPS so it wouldn't seem all that necessary.

If this change were to occur, I would think that gold Prosperous be a 7% increase, purple would be 6.75%, blue 5.5%, green 4.25% and white being 3%, a small 1.25% change per tier.

Honestly I'm probably just speakin' out my tchukus and this would be a game ruining change but this is my two cents on the awful 11 recovery on gold Prosperous and how to make it not awful. Oh and rename the damned thing to.. I saw someone say Flourishing and that sounds fancy.

Ladislao

Why no one talks about Nirnhoned (armor) and Reinforced traits? Are they pretty balanced?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Ladislao wrote: »

Why no one talks about Nirnhoned (armor) and Reinforced traits? Are they pretty balanced?

No one cares about them cause they aren't DPS related.

But really, they are okay with what they do, just for tanks, sturdy is far and away better.

glavius

Charged might need abit of a buff if you compare it to infused: Overall infused will proc the glyph twice as often, giving it more than twice the damage from glyphs due to the 30% glyph damage bonus. While having nearly the same chance of proccing secondary effects due to the faster hit rate.

jeskah

The changes IMHO are clearly one step in the right direction. However:

As long as enemy armor can be fully penetrated, everybody will try to do so. Now, we have access to penetration not only by the sharpened trait, but by mundus and CP (albeit the latter is not in play in BGs). More source for penetration would be nice (especially for stamina users). Either similar to Kragh (chose some sets - not one, multiple ones - maybe some of the not so popular ones - change the existing bonuses to some penetration, or:

The prosperous change - and yes, i also think, that the numbers are too low - again, a step in the right direction: universally useful (or at least, more useful, well, not totally worthless) traits.
So, f.e.: maybe reinforced not only increase self armor, but gives some penetration, sturdy not only reduces block cost, but all action costs - something along those lines.

As for weapons, it seems, that precise and sharpened are okay now, infused will be interesting (with VMA weapons or master weapons even infused could be the real sh... choice). Decisive need some serious rework or buff or whatever and powered simply kills me. Defensive with the current changes may go down in the gutter entirely (tanks may chose infused over it).

So, good direction, still need some work IMHO.

Vercingetorix

Prosperous is still a joke. Recovery is a decent effect, but a total of 7 gold prosperous values should be roughly equal at least HALF to the Mundus stone equivalent. Remember, a player is giving up Divines, Well-Fitted, Sturdy, and Infused to run this trait. It needs to be competitive, not a clear underperforming option.

Honestly, I would have rather gotten an effect that "increases the duration and magnitude of consumed food/drink by X%" as a trait instead - you could rename it "Nourishing". THAT would have been competitive with Divines/Impen for PvE/PvP. At worst, a mix of those traits would be great for players and they could manage good numbers. Having to grind longer because only ONE TRAIT is decent, just sucks.

Strider_Roshin

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Prosperous is still a joke. Recovery is a decent effect, but a total of 7 gold prosperous values should be roughly equal at least HALF to the Mundus stone equivalent. Remember, a player is giving up Divines, Well-Fitted, Sturdy, and Infused to run this trait. It needs to be competitive, not a clear underperforming option.

Honestly, I would have rather gotten an effect that "increases the duration and magnitude of consumed food/drink by X%" as a trait instead - you could rename it "Nourishing". THAT would have been competitive with Divines/Impen for PvE/PvP. At worst, a mix of those traits would be great for players and they could manage good numbers. Having to grind longer because only ONE TRAIT is decent, just sucks.

It needs to give 50 stam/mag/health regen per piece in order to be competitive. Otherwise it's going to remain junk.

Masel

glavius wrote: »

Charged might need abit of a buff if you compare it to infused: Overall infused will proc the glyph twice as often, giving it more than twice the damage from glyphs due to the 30% glyph damage bonus. While having nearly the same chance of proccing secondary effects due to the faster hit rate.

Nope. Charged is beautiful. It increases the status effect chance of everything you do. Use it on a shock/fire DK in PvE and enjoy. It is a very very strong trait, even though it's effectiveness has been reduced quite a lot due to the shorter concussion duration. On the dummy my off-balance uptime is now higher than my concussion uptime...

dpencil1

Vercingetorix wrote: »

Honestly, I would have rather gotten an effect that "increases the duration and magnitude of consumed food/drink by X%" as a trait instead - you could rename it "Nourishing". THAT would have been competitive with Divines/Impen for PvE/PvP. At worst, a mix of those traits would be great for players and they could manage good numbers. Having to grind longer because only ONE TRAIT is decent, just sucks.

I agree, though I would take more magnitude without any duration increase. Food and drink already lasts a really long time and is not very hard or expensive to make. I like this too because it puts the choice in the player's hands, similar to a mini mundus stone.

I think that the Infused trait on Armor needs a buff too, especially on small armor pieces. Like, the ratio of how much you lose on a small piece vs. a big piece is too big to make Infused viable on small pieces. If we had Divines, Infused, and Prosperous all as equally good dps/healer choices and Sturdy, Reinforced, and Ninhoned as good tank choices, with Well Fitted and Impen as good choices for PvP and Training taken out of the loot table at cp160 gear then the system would basically be perfect. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Rungar

should of made prosperous 8% increased armor and 2% block cost (gold) imo. Rename it impervious.

no ones going to use anything but divines except for tanks. Especially now that divines is boosted.

AuT6GHad

I really like the trait changes, but they still need to be adjusted a bit.

When I think about offensive traits (Sharpened, Precise, Nirnhorned) they should be all at the same level. Therefore the differences of these traits should be small.

(Calculations made with Gold Staff/Bow)

For example at this patch Precise is superior. Even with the base crit damage (50%) it increases damage by 4,5%. While Sharpened gives 4,15% (PVP) / 5,5% (PVE) and Nirnhorned about 3,3%. Furthermore lots of people have >80% crit damage which means a single Precise trait increases the damage by over 7,2%.
I would suggest that Sharpened should give 4000 Penetration (6,04% (PVP) / 8% (PVE)). Then it would be BiS, assuming to be not on the Penetration cap and having less than 89% crit damage. When you have over 88% crit damage, Precise would be BiS (talking about pure damage). So this would mean that those two traits would be good balanced. Lots of players have less than 89% crit damage, but crit supports healing or the uptime of some sets too. So players have to decide between pure damage and other benefits, when choosing between Precise and Sharpened. However, when I think about staking crit damage, it is not that hard to reach 89% crit damage (especially for NB and Templars). So maybe the Precise trait should be 8%. This would mean that Precise would be BiS (for pure damage) when being over 100% crit damage. So Precise would be interesting for NB, Templars and players who are buffed with Major/Minor Force. Even players with under 100% crit damage could choose Precise over Sharpened because of the above mentioned benefits. Last but not least, I think Nirnhorned needs to be buffed much more. A 15% bonus to the weapon’s damage is approximately a 3,3% damage boost. Compared to the other two traits that’s way too low. If Nirnhorned would increase the weapon’s damage by 36% it would be approximately on the same level as Sharpened and Precise (in PVE). Nevertheless Nirnhorned has no disadvantages like over-penetrating or be reliant on buffs uptime/RNG. Therefore its value maybe should be 30%. So I would suggest that Nirnhorned should be between 30% and 36%.
The above mentioned values would increase the variety of player’s weapon traits.

I like the Decisive buff, so it maybe would be used by some players. However, I feel that it needs to be buffed more (maybe to 50%).

Defending should be the same as Sharpened, so in this case (4000).

Infused is now a really good trait.

I really like the Powered buff, it should has the same value as Precise (so in my suggestion 8%).

The Prosperous trait finally becomes useful in some way. Nevertheless its value its too small. In my opinion it should grant 15 Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery.

Oblivion Damage definitely needed to be nerfed. That’s good in my opinion.

Its great that weapon enchantments will no longer proc if the initial attack is dodged.

bottleofsyrup

The Prosperous change is definitely a step in the right direction, but its value needs to be increased. 11 regen at gold quality is really weak. Even at 7/7 that's a measly 77 regen.

Training also needs to stop dropping for cp160 pieces, or at least have its drop rate reduced. Generally anyone needing to grind CP will craft a full training set or have someone craft it for them.

ManDraKE

Prosperous needs to be at least 20 regen, if not more. Otherwise i rather pick well-fited or sturdy to reduce cost of dodges/sprint/block that will help more to my resources that a miserable ammount of regen.

Lord_Eomer

AuT6GHad wrote: »

I really like the trait changes, but they still need to be adjusted a bit.

When I think about offensive traits (Sharpened, Precise, Nirnhorned) they should be all at the same level. Therefore the differences of these traits should be small.

(Calculations made with Gold Staff/Bow)

For example at this patch Precise is superior. Even with the base crit damage (50%) it increases damage by 4,5%. While Sharpened gives 4,15% and Nirnhorned about 3,3%. Furthermore lots of people have >80% crit damage which means a single Precise trait increases the damage by over 7,2%.
I would suggest to keep the Sharpened trait as it was (5160 = 7,8%). Then it would be BiS, assuming to be not on the Penetration cap and having less than 87% crit damage. When you have over 87% crit damage, Precise would be BiS (talking about pure damage). So this would mean that those two traits would be good balanced. Lots of players have less than 87% crit damage, but crit supports healing or the uptime of some sets too. So players have to decide between pure damage and other benefits, when choosing between Precise and Sharpened. However, when I think about staking crit damage, it is not that hard to reach 87% crit damage (especially for NB and Templars). So maybe the Precise trait should be 8%. This would mean that Precise would be BiS (for pure damage) when being over 97% crit damage. So Precise would be interesting for NB, Templars and players who are buffed with Major/Minor Force. Even players with under 97% crit damage could choose Precise over Sharpened because of the above mentioned benefits. Last but not least, I think Nirnhorned needs to be buffed much more. A 15% bonus to the weapon’s damage is approximately a 3,3% damage boost. Compared to the other two traits that’s way too low. If Nirnhorned would increase the weapon’s damage by 35% it would be approximately on the same level as Sharpened and Precise. Nevertheless Nirnhorned has no disadvantages like over-penetrating or be reliant on buffs uptime/RNG. Therefore its value maybe should be 30%. So I would suggest that Nirnhorned should be between 30% and 35%.
The above mentioned values would increase the variety of player’s weapon traits.

I like the Decisive buff, so it maybe would be used by some players. However, I feel that it needs to be buffed more (maybe to 50%).

Defending should stay they same as it was, like Sharpened (5160).

Infused is now a really good trait.

I really like the Powered buff, it should has the same value as Precise (so in my suggestion 8%).

The Prosperous trait finally becomes useful in some way. Nevertheless its value its too small. In my opinion it should grant 15 Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery.

Oblivion Damage definitely needed to be nerfed. That’s good in my opinion.

Its great that weapon enchantments will no longer proc if the initial attack is dodged.

Sharpen is not 4.5 % damage increse but around 5.6 %

Buff to sharpen is not needed because Lover Mundus can give more Penetration bonus or can use item set i.e. spinner, sprigan etc.. Also penetration is much easier from Champion System.

Sharpen is balance now with other traits! Still sharpen will be heavily used in PVP! and contents where penteration buff is lower, unorganized groups etc.

If they buff sharpen then we will end up again with sharpen race, no diversity among traits!

Morgul667

I hope all traits are buffed to similar level, making them similar but with different use.

Precise and Nirn could be replacement for sharpened. Infused for situational use

I guess Nirn needs a buff based on the calculations around

Alucu

In order to provide you with better actual feedeback, we need more default boxes on the PTS to do proper testing. vMA weapons in nirnhoned and infused (really interesting trait now on those). Also Vicious Ophidian and agility, willpower boxes. Ain't gonna invest the time to farm them in the PTS as well, no sir Also, more convenient crafting material boxes, with easier to extract and more amount of cp160 mats (In order to craft several sets). Im going there to test on a skeleton, not to play the game twice (Maybe with european character transfer this will change?)

Sharpened/Nirn/infused weapons look BiS to me since they are both useful traits in PvE and PvP and you dont have to change your weapons for any type of content

Lord_Eomer

Alucu wrote: »

In order to provide you with better actual feedeback, we need more default boxes on the PTS to do proper testing. vMA weapons in nirnhoned and infused (really interesting trait now on those). Also Vicious Ophidian and agility, willpower boxes. Ain't gonna invest the time to farm them in the PTS as well, no sir Also, more convenient crafting material boxes, with easier to extract and more amount of cp160 mats (In order to craft several sets). Im going there to test on a skeleton, not to play the game twice (Maybe with european character transfer this will change?)

Sharpened/Nirn/infused weapons look BiS to me since they are both useful traits in PvE and PvP and you dont have to change your weapons for any type of content

Exactly sharpen still looks BIS for PVE and PVP.

Precise only good for PVE and Nirn may work ok in PVP but i doubt that it will be prefered over sharpen due to heavy armor builds and more penterarion advantage!

With 5-1-1 setup, resistance go like 15k for medium armor builds and now more people put CP points is reistance due to hardy and ele defender being more expensive

Also major ward and major / resolve is much easier for all class including NB have it from passive! Infact warden buff whole zerg!

AuT6GHad

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Sharpen is not 4.5 % damage increse but around 5.6 %

Buff to sharpen is not needed because Lover Mundus can give more Penetration bonus or can use item set i.e. spinner, sprigan etc.. Also penetration is much easier from Champion System.

Sharpen is balance now with other traits! Still sharpen will be heavily used in PVP! and contents where penteration buff is lower, unorganized groups etc.

If they buff sharpen then we will end up again with sharpen race, no diversity among traits!

I think Sharpened is 4,15% in PVP and 5,5% in PVE.

There is no reason for choosing the Lover over the Shadow or the Thief for a DD in PVE!
Furthermore, if you put too much CP into Penetration, you will lose damage somewhere else.

I would not use Sharpened, even if I am in an unorganized group! In PVP thats another story.

However, on high crit damage builds Precise already came very close to Sharpened and now after a 2% buff its superior in PVE!

TheHsN

AuT6GHad wrote: »

I really like the trait changes, but they still need to be adjusted a bit.

When I think about offensive traits (Sharpened, Precise, Nirnhorned) they should be all at the same level. Therefore the differences of these traits should be small.

(Calculations made with Gold Staff/Bow)

For example at this patch Precise is superior. Even with the base crit damage (50%) it increases damage by 4,5%. While Sharpened gives 4,15% and Nirnhorned about 3,3%. Furthermore lots of people have >80% crit damage which means a single Precise trait increases the damage by over 7,2%.
I would suggest to keep the Sharpened trait as it was (5160 = 7,8%). Then it would be BiS, assuming to be not on the Penetration cap and having less than 87% crit damage. When you have over 87% crit damage, Precise would be BiS (talking about pure damage). So this would mean that those two traits would be good balanced. Lots of players have less than 87% crit damage, but crit supports healing or the uptime of some sets too. So players have to decide between pure damage and other benefits, when choosing between Precise and Sharpened. However, when I think about staking crit damage, it is not that hard to reach 87% crit damage (especially for NB and Templars). So maybe the Precise trait should be 8%. This would mean that Precise would be BiS (for pure damage) when being over 97% crit damage. So Precise would be interesting for NB, Templars and players who are buffed with Major/Minor Force. Even players with under 97% crit damage could choose Precise over Sharpened because of the above mentioned benefits. Last but not least, I think Nirnhorned needs to be buffed much more. A 15% bonus to the weapon’s damage is approximately a 3,3% damage boost. Compared to the other two traits that’s way too low. If Nirnhorned would increase the weapon’s damage by 35% it would be approximately on the same level as Sharpened and Precise. Nevertheless Nirnhorned has no disadvantages like over-penetrating or be reliant on buffs uptime/RNG. Therefore its value maybe should be 30%. So I would suggest that Nirnhorned should be between 30% and 35%.
The above mentioned values would increase the variety of player’s weapon traits.

I like the Decisive buff, so it maybe would be used by some players. However, I feel that it needs to be buffed more (maybe to 50%).

Defending should stay they same as it was, like Sharpened (5160).

Infused is now a really good trait.

I really like the Powered buff, it should has the same value as Precise (so in my suggestion 8%).

The Prosperous trait finally becomes useful in some way. Nevertheless its value its too small. In my opinion it should grant 15 Health, Magicka and Stamina Recovery.

Oblivion Damage definitely needed to be nerfed. That’s good in my opinion.

Its great that weapon enchantments will no longer proc if the initial attack is dodged.

U dont want balance u just want more DPS:)

Lord_Eomer

AuT6GHad wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Sharpen is not 4.5 % damage increse but around 5.6 %

Buff to sharpen is not needed because Lover Mundus can give more Penetration bonus or can use item set i.e. spinner, sprigan etc.. Also penetration is much easier from Champion System.

Sharpen is balance now with other traits! Still sharpen will be heavily used in PVP! and contents where penteration buff is lower, unorganized groups etc.

If they buff sharpen then we will end up again with sharpen race, no diversity among traits!

I think Sharpened is 4,15% in PVP and 5,5% in PVE.

There is no reason for choosing the Lover over the Shadow or the Thief for a DD in PVE!
Furthermore, if you put too much CP into Penetration, you will lose damage somewhere else.

I would not use Sharpened, even if I am in an unorganized group! In PVP thats another story.

However, on high crit damage builds Precise already came very close to Sharpened and now after a 2% buff its superior in PVE!

You were comparing sharpen with precise and writing 4,15, this does mean you are talking about pve..

Even you did not mention anywhere there pvp..

mehmetdemir

What if there were no...wait for it...weapon traits. When you loot a certain cp160 set weapon that is it you nailed it, now just go play your game the way you like.

AuT6GHad

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

You were comparing sharpen with precise and writing 4,15, this does mean you are talking about pve..

Even you did not mention anywhere there pvp..

Ok, I see thats confusing. I didn't thought about that Penetration difference in PVE-PVP.

So I edited my post above.

You are right 5160 Penetration is too much for PVE, but in my opinion 4000 Penetration should be a good value.