Battlegrounds Bugs and Lack of Features - Still no response from ZOS [Updated 6/11]

Uncle_Sweetshare

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

at least they already know they need to target questing crowd

Which I can understand because PvE is a huge part of this game, and for a lot of TES fans, it's all they know (as a lot of players come from the single player games without having played an MMO before.

I'll admit, I think most of it is done extremely well, but when it comes to ZOS' handling of PvP, the game falls flat. All we can do is keep bringing forth these issues and hoping someone takes notice and cares enough to do something about it.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Is it actually so hard to change the leaderboards to be working like trial, VMA and DSA leaderboards? Only your best run is counted.
Would be milion times better than another emperor-like grindfest.

I'll go ahread and add leaderboards to the OP.

Majeure

I agree with pretty much everything the OP stated, would be great if just this one form of PvP rewarded players/teams based on how well they play, not how much they play.

Uncle_Sweetshare

Majeure wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything the OP stated, would be great if just this one form of PvP rewarded players/teams based on how well they play, not how much they play.

Agreed. Unfortunately we didn't see any changes to Battlegrounds mechanics this week, but there's always next week.

Uncle_Sweetshare

Update: To no one's surprise, Battlegrounds queue appears to still be broken. Not sure what else I expected, to be honest.

It's really unfortunate, but if they can't fix a queue, it's unrealistic to think that they're capable of implementing any of the features listed in the OP that are standard on any other MMO with arena style combat.

Uncle_Sweetshare

@ZOS_GinaBruno Could you please pass this on to the appropriate parties and give us some sort of acknowledgement that these issues are being addressed, regardless of the timeline? Alternatively, if there's no intention of any of these features being implemented, please inform me so I can let this thread die alongside my hopes of ESO becoming a source for competitive PvP.

Thank you.

br0steen

This post is probably the most constructive criticism I've seen in quite a long time on here. These are all good suggestions, although some I doubt will be implemented for whatever reason. For example, starting with 0 ult was something suggested for dueling but it never happened.

12 man grouping to fight against each other would be really nice but people would take advantage of that system, unless it was under a different catagory that didn't apply to leaderboards.

Still I think @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler shoild read this.

Uncle_Sweetshare

br0steen wrote: »

This post is probably the most constructive criticism I've seen in quite a long time on here. These are all good suggestions, although some I doubt will be implemented for whatever reason. For example, starting with 0 ult was something suggested for dueling but it never happened.

12 man grouping to fight against each other would be really nice but people would take advantage of that system, unless it was under a different catagory that didn't apply to leaderboards.

Still I think @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler shoild read this.

Yeah, if they implemented 12 man groups for custom BG matches, it shouldn't be affiliated with any sort of MMR or leaderboard ranking, as people could just feed eachother kills/ wins to boost their MMR.

I really appreciate the kind words though, as I've put a lot of thought and time (sadly) into this thread, which unfortunately may never even reach the right people.

necronomniconb14_ESO

an opt out of facing premades for a solo player should be listed as High Priority there is really no excuse this day and age

Mazbt

I hope battlegrounds get fixed and become a more competitive small scale pvp thing. I really would like it to be a good alternative to cyrodil zerg pvp for those that want a change of setting....

Brutusmax1mus

The problem with being proc sets is those sets do have counters, but the average player doesn't utilize well. Also certain builds have a much harder time countering proc builds.

But, i have a tank build that is nearly impossible to bring down with out 4 proc builds, a negate, and a fear, and that still may not be enough.

My point is proc sets, when countered with block, shield stacking, dodge rolling, stabilization and counter cc, leave the user at a disadvantage. Proc sets do nothing for your self healing and recovery, making you wait to bring down.

Although it is a lot less effort to use a proc set than it is to counter one.

Uncle_Sweetshare

necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »

an opt out of facing premades for a solo player should be listed as High Priority there is really no excuse this day and age

In the OP I have that under number 6, but given the amount of issues surrounding the premade groups, I agree, and will bump number 6 from medium to high as soon as I get back to my desktop.

flguy147ub17_ESO

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

Update: To no one's surprise, Battlegrounds queue appears to still be broken. Not sure what else I expected, to be honest.

It's really unfortunate, but if they can't fix a queue, it's unrealistic to think that they're capable of implementing any of the features listed in the OP that are standard on any other MMO with arena style combat.

Man they cant even get Mail to work properly since PC launch. Over 3 years and they cant even get that to work lol.

Uncle_Sweetshare

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

Update: To no one's surprise, Battlegrounds queue appears to still be broken. Not sure what else I expected, to be honest.

It's really unfortunate, but if they can't fix a queue, it's unrealistic to think that they're capable of implementing any of the features listed in the OP that are standard on any other MMO with arena style combat.

Man they cant even get Mail to work properly since PC launch. Over 3 years and they cant even get that to work lol.

Yup. Guild members are also reporting that the random dungeon finder reward is still only being given to the leader in premade groups, and Battlegrounds queue is getting stuck in hour+ long states of the "You or someone in your group has declined the invite" message.

ZOS needs to gut their teams, replace their leads, and rebuild the game from the ground up, because whatever they're doing, what they've been doing for 3 years, isn't working.

altemriel

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

Battlegrounds in its current state leaves much to be desired. To save everyone some time I'll make this list as short as I can with what I believe needs to be done in order for Battlegrounds to live up to its potential and thrive as a competitive alternative to Cyrodiil PvP.

1. Level/ Gear Brackets [High Priority]
Currently there is no level/ gear brackets, despite the fact that on the Battlegrounds page on ESO's website states there are two brackets (levels 10-49 and levels 10-50).

2. Competitive Queue/ MMR [High Priority]
In addition to level/ gear brackets, we need a separate competitive queue for players level 50, CP160 and above with an MMR system (I know CP is disabled, but for the sake of players having CP160 gear).

3. Team Balancing [High Priority]
Related to number 4, there are a lot of matches starting with 2 players on two of the teams, and 4 on the third. Games should not start until there are 4 players on each team.

4. Proc Set Changes [High Priority]
As users have suggested in other threads, I think proc set damage needs to scale off of Weapon Damage/ Spell Damage and the relevant attribute (so tanks aren't stacking proc sets and still doing massive amounts of damage), and in addition to that burst proc sets need to be tweaked. Quoting myself from another post (it's a doozey):

I think the issue with proc sets comes from multiple players on same teams running multiple unavoidable burst damage procs (Such as Viper, Red Mountain, etc.), and the fact that these sets deal damage outside of your rotation. By that, I mean they can go off during other animations, and don't require an additional key to be pressed or skill to be slotted. Because they're all unavoidable damage that happens outside of your normal rotation, nothing has to be sacrificed in order for them to work. For those reasons I believe that the damage for these sets need to be lowered, the cooldown extended, or the damage changed from DD to DoT.

Next in line would be burst procs that are avoidable, such as Velidreth, Selene, or Widowmaker (which surprisingly hasn't been brought up often here). These sets aren't always avoidable due to CC, no Stamina to dodge, etc., but they are avoidable. Now, let's take Velidreth and compare it to Selene. Velidreth is easily avoidable (the center ball not so much, but for sake of argument) and has a long cooldown, so there's not too much hate on it in here. Selene is also avoidable, but because it hits hard and is on a short cooldown, it gets lots of hate here. Personally, I think the damage on these sets should be slightly lowered, and the cooldowns semi-equalized (so there isn't a clear BiS).

Then we have the DoT procs, and to no one's surprise, there's not a lot of hate on these. Grothdarr procs? Walk away, but if you don't it's okay because you can pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Illambris procs? Get out of the circle, or stand in it and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Scourge Harvester procs? Stand there in bewilderment that someone is running Scourge Harvester, and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. These sets just aren't very effective in PvP, and I think that they fine in terms of numbers, but would be more viable if the burst set numbers were lowered.

Lastly, we have support proc sets. These also don't get a lot of hate because they all complement builds instead of being the build. You can't exactly make a build that revolves entirely around Pirate Skeleton or Lord Warden (Troll King is the rare exception here), but they're great additional effects to have. On the other hand, there are plenty of builds that revolve around Selene/ Viper/ Widowmaker, where the rest of the build doesn't matter as long as you have a gap closer and CC. Personally I think the support sets are fine where they are, numbers wise.

Long story short, the issue with proc sets isn't proc sets as a whole, but the burst damage procs and the fact that they do massive amounts of damage outside your rotation. I think any time there are clear, across-the-board BiS items for anything (tanking, DPS, healing, etc.), those items need to be reevaluated and tweaked so there isn't a clear BiS.

5. Option to Reconnect if DC'd/ Crashed [High Priority]
Players should have up to 3 minutes to get back into the game if they DC or crash before the game removes them from Battlegrounds and gives them the 20 minute leaver's penalty. Players that choose to leave manually via the UI should still be able to do so and incur the leaver's penalty.

6. Solo/Duo/Trio and 4 Man Team Queues [Medium Priority]
Separate matches so those that are queuing with less than 4 players only play with/ against others that queued with less than 4 players, and those queuing with 4 players only play against other 4 player groups.

7. Choice of Game Mode [Medium Priority]
A lot of players have their preferred game mode and shouldn't be forced to play on 'random.'

8. Improved Rewards [Medium Priority]
You can currently gain more AP by capping a few resources in Cyrodiil than in a Battlegrounds match, and in a quarter of the time. End of match XP and AP rewards need to be greatly increased.

9. Token System [Medium Priority]
Initially I came up with a token system to exchange for goods at a Battlegrounds Vendor, however I soon realized there was a much simpler solution; use AP. If we were earning more appropriate amounts of AP per match (see #8), we could have a separate Battlegrounds AP vendor (at the numerous Battlegrounds 'camps' in Vvardenfell), which could include poisons, potions, gear boxes, and more.

10. Remove Power Sigils [Medium Priority]
There's no need for additional RNG in ESO's combat, especially in an enclosed arena.

11. Leaderboards [Medium Priority]
Currently the leaderboards reflect those who play the most, and end-of-season rewards should not be based off time played, but rather performance. With an MMR system in place, leaderboards could be based on said MMR to reflect individual skill over time played.

12. Players Start Match with 0 Ultimate [Low Priority]
Ultimates can be used to gain a massive advantage over opponents in the first few seconds of a game (ie. massive burst damage to grab sigil at the start of a match), and to improve fluidity each player should start match with 0 Ultimate.

13. Non-CP and CP Competitive Queue [Low Priority]
Casual (non-Competitive) Queue can remain non-CP, however the competitive players should be given the choice between non-CP and CP matches, with separate MMRs (this is a debatable change, I'm just listing it for solidarity).

14. Role Based Queues [Low Priority]
There's no role selection for Battlegrounds groups; one group could have 4 healers, then next 4 tanks, etc.

15. Custom Games [Low Priority]
Custom games/ lobbies where you can queue as 12 players and be placed into a match with all 12 players (teams being separated by their small groups).

If anyone has anything they wish to have added to the list feel free to comment and I will add it when I can. Thank you for reading.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

yes please!!!


and also pls add at least 5Vs5VS5 with PVE monsters, such as 5 trolls or at least so, similar to blessed crucible pledge (pve arena)

Uncle_Sweetshare

altemriel wrote: »

and also pls add at least 5Vs5VS5 with PVE monsters, such as 5 trolls or at least so, similar to blessed crucible pledge (pve arena)

I think that sounds fun, but I'm going to hold off on adding it as this thread is just about Battlegrounds PvP.

mihaiisraging

Solo queue is ok...not great but ok.
Group queue is a total fail. I had no luck with 2-3 group, but it was an average(10min) queue when we were 4.

I am not getting how devs answer on stupid questions (about prices and eso+ and bla bla wich were stated for 100 times) and just keep avoiding the important threads. I have a feeling that I will go back into Arma 3, OW, Paragon or maybe start even another mmo. The battlegrounds in WoW were much better. Not to speak about GW2 or Aion

olsborg

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

4. Proc Set Changes [High Priority]
As users have suggested in other threads, I think proc set damage needs to scale off of Weapon Damage/ Spell Damage and the relevant attribute (so tanks aren't stacking proc sets and still doing massive amounts of damage), and in addition to that burst proc sets need to be tweaked. Quoting myself from another post (it's a doozey):

I think the issue with proc sets comes from multiple players on same teams running multiple unavoidable burst damage procs (Such as Viper, Red Mountain, etc.), and the fact that these sets deal damage outside of your rotation. By that, I mean they can go off during other animations, and don't require an additional key to be pressed or skill to be slotted. Because they're all unavoidable damage that happens outside of your normal rotation, nothing has to be sacrificed in order for them to work. For those reasons I believe that the damage for these sets need to be lowered, the cooldown extended, or the damage changed from DD to DoT.

Next in line would be burst procs that are avoidable, such as Velidreth, Selene, or Widowmaker (which surprisingly hasn't been brought up often here). These sets aren't always avoidable due to CC, no Stamina to dodge, etc., but they are avoidable. Now, let's take Velidreth and compare it to Selene. Velidreth is easily avoidable (the center ball not so much, but for sake of argument) and has a long cooldown, so there's not too much hate on it in here. Selene is also avoidable, but because it hits hard and is on a short cooldown, it gets lots of hate here. Personally, I think the damage on these sets should be slightly lowered, and the cooldowns semi-equalized (so there isn't a clear BiS).

Then we have the DoT procs, and to no one's surprise, there's not a lot of hate on these. Grothdarr procs? Walk away, but if you don't it's okay because you can pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Illambris procs? Get out of the circle, or stand in it and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. Scourge Harvester procs? Stand there in bewilderment that someone is running Scourge Harvester, and pop Vigor to out heal the damage. These sets just aren't very effective in PvP, and I think that they fine in terms of numbers, but would be more viable if the burst set numbers were lowered.

Lastly, we have support proc sets. These also don't get a lot of hate because they all complement builds instead of being the build. You can't exactly make a build that revolves entirely around Pirate Skeleton or Lord Warden (Troll King is the rare exception here), but they're great additional effects to have. On the other hand, there are plenty of builds that revolve around Selene/ Viper/ Widowmaker, where the rest of the build doesn't matter as long as you have a gap closer and CC. Personally I think the support sets are fine where they are, numbers wise.

Long story short, the issue with proc sets isn't proc sets as a whole, but the burst damage procs and the fact that they do massive amounts of damage outside your rotation. I think any time there are clear, across-the-board BiS items for anything (tanking, DPS, healing, etc.), those items need to be reevaluated and tweaked so there isn't a clear BiS.

Oh yes, so much yes. Also needs to be applied in cyrodiil. Procc sets are cancer.

Uncle_Sweetshare

mihaiisraging wrote: »

I am not getting how devs answer on stupid questions (about prices and eso+ and bla bla wich were stated for 100 times) and just keep avoiding the important threads.

It does bother me, to be honest. The CMs do occasionally respond to bug report threads, as Gina did today, but considering the amount of times CMs and devs have been tagged in this thread, they've read it, they just don't have a response.

This tells me that either A - they have no intention of ever implementing any of the aforementioned features (none of which are original ideas, they're all features already implemented in every other MMO with arena style PvP), or B - the right people haven't read it, and the CMs haven't been given a response by the leads, and therefore don't want to give false information.

All I've asked for in my Tweets, support tickets, and emails is some semblance of acknowledgement of this thread. If @ZOS_RichLambert has no intention of finishing Battlegrounds, please just let us know, so the players that want competitive PvP can move to another game already.

mihaiisraging

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

mihaiisraging wrote: »

I am not getting how devs answer on stupid questions (about prices and eso+ and bla bla wich were stated for 100 times) and just keep avoiding the important threads.

It does bother me, to be honest. The CMs do occasionally respond to bug report threads, as Gina did today, but considering the amount of times CMs and devs have been tagged in this thread, they've read it, they just don't have a response.

This tells me that either A - they have no intention of ever implementing any of the aforementioned features (none of which are original ideas, they're all features already implemented in every other arena style PvP game), or B - the right people haven't read it, and the CMs haven't been given a response by the leads, and therefore don't want to give false information.

All I've asked for in my Tweets, support tickets, and emails is some semblance of acknowledgement of this thread. If @ZOS_RichLambert has no intention of finishing Battlegrounds, please just let us know, so the players that want competitive PvP can move to another game already.

Just check this thread for example.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345955/contest-winner-did-not-recieve-prize#latest

I have 2 friends that stopped playing already eso tonight after we spent 2h in queue as a group and ended to solo queue to play versus eachother. I managed to bring 1 more guy that logs when we normally go off and only with him with worked to queue as a group.(we were 4 in the end)

I have 2 more friends that do not know if to buy it because all the things they read on forums. And I am afraid I will start playing another game with my friends if they just leave the arenas broken.

olsborg

Its a joke that what will carry a pvper through combat these days is 80% his items (itemization) and 20% his actual skills (combat knowledge and reaction)

s7732425ub17_ESO

A simple MMR system would solve most of the issues that Battlegrounds has so far.

Uncle_Sweetshare

mihaiisraging wrote: »

Just check this thread for example.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/345955/contest-winner-did-not-recieve-prize#latest

I think the better thread to look at would be this one. Brian Wheeler wasn't even tagged there and he responded within 10 minutes on a thread regarding the Leaderboards, which should be pretty damn low on his list of priorities given the amount of gamebreaking issues with Battlegrounds.

It's great that someone spent the time to get on those leaderboards, but for the rest of us that want competitive PvP and haven't stepped inside a Battlegrounds match since launch day because of it, we're stuck waiting around for a response that will likely never come.

I really didn't want this to turn into a flame thread or anything of the sort, but c'mon now. It's been 2 weeks since the PC EA release, and there still hasn't been a single improvement to Battlegrounds. The freakin' queue is still broken, on TOP of the massive lack of mechanics that should have been implemented into the game mode from day 1. This isn't rocket science or ground breaking technology. These are features that MMOs have been utilizing for the past 12+ years, so what made ZOS think it was acceptable to forgo all the mechanics that make arena style PvP combat competitive and enjoyable for the lackluster system they currently have in place?

Care to weigh in on this, @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @ZOS_RichLambert ?

mihaiisraging

1more open minded thread wich will die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/350070/pvp-battlegrounds-weapons-gladiator-weapons#latest

Uncle_Sweetshare

mihaiisraging wrote: »

1more open minded thread wich will die
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/350070/pvp-battlegrounds-weapons-gladiator-weapons#latest

That definitely sounds interesting, but to be honest I'd be content if they just finished what they already started with Battlegrounds.

Uncle_Sweetshare

And now our watch begins.

Kalante

WHAT??! you are expecting zos to implement something that actually requires developing??! Haven't you gotten the memo yet? zos is in the band aid fixes business not the developing fixing business.

Uncle_Sweetshare

Kalante wrote: »

WHAT??! you are expecting zos to implement something that actually requires developing??! Haven't you gotten the memo yet? zos is in the band aid fixes business not the developing fixing business.

Unfortunately I'm starting to realize this. I've only been playing ESO for a few months, but I've been playing MMOs for almost 15 years now, and I've never seen them as mismanaged as this.

Well, that's a lie... ArcheAge is an absolute garbage heap and failed endeavor thanks to Trion Worlds, but ArcheAge also didn't have The Elder Scrolls IP to keep them afloat.

Izay

There should only be 2, possibly 3 queues IMO. First queue would be for low level characters if the population is there to support it, second should be normal queue only allowing solo/duo's to queue for it, lastly the group queue should be the ranked queue with a requirement of CP160(For Gear) it would also have a MMR system and special rewards attached to top players. Nobody wants to play lopsided matches and those will continue to happen when low level players are mixed with higher ones and when premades are put vs pugs.

Rollan

Proc set ?



5 heavy + 1 med + 1 light + 5k resist/armor from templar rune ....

Uncle_Sweetshare

Izay wrote: »

There should only be 2, possibly 3 queues IMO. First queue would be for low level characters if the population is there to support it, second should be normal queue only allowing solo/duo's to queue for it, lastly the group queue should be the ranked queue with a requirement of CP160(For Gear) it would also have a MMR system and special rewards attached to top players. Nobody wants to play lopsided matches and those will continue to happen when low level players are mixed with higher ones and when premades are put vs pugs.

I agree on all accounts!

Rollan wrote: »

Proc set ?



5 heavy + 1 med + 1 light + 5k resist/armor from templar rune ....

Battlegrounds in a nutshell.