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Selective noncommutivity of Warrior CP
Asayre
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In certain situations, the order in which Warrior CP is assigned appears to affect damage calculation in both PvP and PvE. It appears that putting points into Hardy/Elemental Defender before Ironclad/Thick Skinned is the safest method.
In the image below, I show the damage done to me by Bloodspawn's Claw attack first with no Warrior CP assigned (5349, 3387 damage). I then put 100 points into Ironclad and then 100 points into Hardy and take 3424 and 2168 damage (~36% damage reduction). I remove all my Warrior CP and then assign 100 points into Hardy and then 100 points into Ironclad and take 3210 and 2033 damage (40% damage reduction).
This phenomena is reproducible in PvP. The image below shows me taking 2235 damage from Crystal Fragments with no Warrior CP assigned. This is reduced to 1431(36% damage reduction) when 100 points is invested in Ironclad then 100 points in Elemental Defender. Swapping the order (that is 100 points in Elemental Defender then 100 points in Ironclad) results in a damage of 1341 (40% damage reduction).
Further testing on the PTS suggest that this non-commutivity appears when there is significant investment in Ironclad and Hardy, specifically when the sum of floored tooltips reaches 25, 29, 33 and 36.
Edited by Asayre on May 27, 2017 10:44AM In the image below, I show the damage done to me by Bloodspawn's Claw attack first with no Warrior CP assigned (5349, 3387 damage). I then put 100 points into Ironclad and then 100 points into Hardy and take 3424 and 2168 damage (~36% damage reduction). I remove all my Warrior CP and then assign 100 points into Hardy and then 100 points into Ironclad and take 3210 and 2033 damage (40% damage reduction).
This phenomena is reproducible in PvP. The image below shows me taking 2235 damage from Crystal Fragments with no Warrior CP assigned. This is reduced to 1431(36% damage reduction) when 100 points is invested in Ironclad then 100 points in Elemental Defender. Swapping the order (that is 100 points in Elemental Defender then 100 points in Ironclad) results in a damage of 1341 (40% damage reduction).
Further testing on the PTS suggest that this non-commutivity appears when there is significant investment in Ironclad and Hardy, specifically when the sum of floored tooltips reaches 25, 29, 33 and 36.
Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
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Fallewarrior✭✭✭✭Inb4 this also works on the blue cp tree..
Zose maths op!Hocus Pocus Grim Focus
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AlcastClass RepresentativeWow...interesting..thanks! Does the same thing happen on the Blue CP Trees?Edited by Alcast on May 27, 2017 12:15PMhttps://alcasthq.com - Alcasthq.com Builds & Guides
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WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Glad someone caught this, wtf is the point of open betas? Did they stop doing inhouse QA because the public is free?6 -
Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭This is unbelievable....
Thx for your work.Sometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
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Senaja✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The both kinds of CP works diffrent i think:
Hardy first, Ironclad last: 100 Damage Taken * 0,85 - (100*0,25) = 60 %
Ironclad first, Hardy last: (100 Damage Taken - (100*0,25)) * 0,85 = 63,75 %
I think that´s the problem. Coincides with @Asayre 36% and 40% in the first post.Edited by Senaja on May 27, 2017 5:36PMDie Legionäre
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MaselClass RepresentativeCan you test this for the Blue CP tree on top? It seems they work multiplicative instead of additive in those cases..PC EU
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Asayre✭✭✭✭✭
✭It seems that this feature is unique to Warrior CP. Mage CP does not show this behaviour. The affect persist through character selection and logout.
I agree that going Hardy > Ironclad makes it additive and Ironclad > Hardy multiplicative.
Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation5 -
WhiteMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jeez, how does one even program it that way?The generally amicable yet sporadically salty magplar that may or may not have 1vXed you in Sotha Sil. Who knows?10 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow ,very interesting ,thank for this !
Edited by Apherius on May 27, 2017 8:38PM0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wonder what would happen if you assigned them at the same time...Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭This *** should be posted in general discussion so more people see it, im kind of getting tired of these "quirks" and undocumented changes.7 -
LukosCreyden✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is very bizzare. A slight mishap? That would be understandable. These things happen. Or is the game really made of bundles upon bundles of spaghetti code? If so, what will break if this gets fixed?Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.2 -
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DeadlyPhoenix✭✭✭✭✭Just makes you wonder what other little things they put in this game intentionally just to give themselves and their friends and advantage over the rest of the community....
There is a reason vMOL has always been exploitable and able to get outside of the map to complete it....
More shady business...
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
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@AsayreIt seems that this feature is unique to Warrior CP. Mage CP does not show this behaviour. The affect persist through character selection and logout.
I agree that going Hardy > Ironclad makes it additive and Ironclad > Hardy multiplicative.
Im not sure if you have this information, but ...
Which is correct/intended? Should it be additive or multiplicative?Edited by timidobserver on May 28, 2017 5:04PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
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WalksonGraves✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bethesda has a long history of totally broken games with mechanics hidden from the player so it's hard to notice (see skyrim perk interactions, all of F4's combat) but I hoped a new dev and the pressure of appeasing a player base would break those bad habits.
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For god's sake... ZoS you should fire Wrobel and hire Asayre for development.
@Asayre Thanks for your work
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