Selective noncommutivity of Warrior CP

Zordrage

Teridaxus wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

This getting fixed or nah

It's a feature now

just like anicancel

apostate9

Berenhir wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

w3ng_vgeb17_ESO wrote: »

Draqone wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

Jeez, how does one even program it that way?

I am interested in that too... I can't imagine what must happen to have those kind of quirks pop up...

Depends on the programming language and framework, but if I had to mimic that behavior, that's quite simple:

Take the calculations for hardy and ironclad and put them into different functions. As soon as a player chooses one of the perks put the function into an array. For calculations take the functions from the array and execute them on the values. The calculations will run in the order they occur in the array. That is they will be executed in the order the player chose them.

I agree - this type of error would be quite reasonable when considering a dynamic collection of damage modification objects being associated with a character. If one of the objects is borked such that the calculation isn't commutative, then ordering issues can result. That it relates to the order of application implies that the container implementation probably isn't keyed, and is likely just a list where new objects are added to the end.

Why should anyone ever program it like that?
I believe they just have a database table where all constant damage modificators are saved (like "direct damage taken modificator") and they update this value when new calculations are made.

The damage calculation then pull their numbers from there.

This would be awful code design, but there are a lot of hints they coded it this way. That would explain why skills often have pulled the wrong penetration numbers after they have been switched to stam or magicka (looking at you, dawnbreaker).

In the presented case of warrior cp, the calculations done when updating the database field seem to not be within the same function. So the order of updating the database has an impact on the value.

The database rows have probably been turned into DAOs so they don't have to query the DB over and over for every toon. If as speculated, this DAO puts all the sources of damage mitigation into an array/list, it is entirely possible that the damage mitigation math is happening in the order the widgets were inserted into the array. If Ironclad before Hardy, bad. If Hardy before Ironclad, good. Totally plausible.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This is still a thing. I was wondering why I was getting hit harder on my Sorc, despite having nearly the same stats as my Warden. I was losing ~4% damage reduction between this bug and jump points, which are now on most stars. This is pretty sloppy ZoS.

There is no way you could feel 4% more damage.

Minno

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This is still a thing. I was wondering why I was getting hit harder on my Sorc, despite having nearly the same stats as my Warden. I was losing ~4% damage reduction between this bug and jump points, which are now on most stars. This is pretty sloppy ZoS.

There is no way you could feel 4% more damage.

Not 1v1, but with multiple critting sources I can see the reasoning.

Still 4% defense gone because you put "milk in before your coffee" is dumb lol.

ssewallb14_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This is still a thing. I was wondering why I was getting hit harder on my Sorc, despite having nearly the same stats as my Warden. I was losing ~4% damage reduction between this bug and jump points, which are now on most stars. This is pretty sloppy ZoS.

There is no way you could feel 4% more damage.

That's about the difference between a Nirnhoned and a Training weapon. Also what's 4% of a 40k burst combo?

rpfc1009

Thanks Asayre for your insight and hard work that has helped this community and game

Bobby_V_Rockit

... wut?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

This is still a thing. I was wondering why I was getting hit harder on my Sorc, despite having nearly the same stats as my Warden. I was losing ~4% damage reduction between this bug and jump points, which are now on most stars. This is pretty sloppy ZoS.

There is no way you could feel 4% more damage.

That's about the difference between a Nirnhoned and a Training weapon. Also what's 4% of a 40k burst combo?

1.6k, nothing. my point still stand, there is not a way you can feel 4% more damage.

Gan Xing

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

There is no way you could feel 4% more damage.

That's about the difference between a Nirnhoned and a Training weapon. Also what's 4% of a 40k burst combo?[/quote]

1.6k, nothing. my point still stand, there is not a way you can feel 4% more damage. [/quote]

When you are between a rock and a hard place, that 4% could save your life. sure, 4% of 25k is 1k, but 1k health still gives you a chance to heal up (granted you get out).

I've seen my health go as low as 8, and then I get healed up. I was lucky, but still. 4% can be the difference between life and death

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Gan Xing wrote: »

When you are between a rock and a hard place, that 4% could save your life. sure, 4% of 25k is 1k, but 1k health still gives you a chance to heal up (granted you get out).

I've seen my health go as low as 8, and then I get healed up. I was lucky, but still. 4% can be the difference between life and death

Those sorts of deaths are in the tiny minority, so small they might as well be rounding errors, do you believe in homeopathic remedies as well?

Teridaxus

So is this still bugged?

Inarre

this explains so much. I recall a post from someone eons ago saying that they recreated their "main" character in another faction, exact same gear, passives, skills, everything. and they could NOT figure out why they took more damage on their new character.

Lo and behold.

Tsar_Gekkou

Anyone know if this is still happening?

Nihility42

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

Can we get a comment on this?

Beardimus

It's never been acknowledged, probably only way to answer that is us test it again.

I still assign in the order listed here in case.

BuddyAces

Please don't lock this cuz "necro".

Any updates? Yes, am too lazy to test on my own.

dodgehopper_ESO

It is not good if it works like this.

testd4n1

Hello and I apologize if this might be considered resurrecting an old thread, but has there been any update on this situation? It appears that information on this is scarce and I don't have a very reliable way to test and compare since I am on console.

Lake

This is fixed, right?

VarisVaris

this bug here?

Glory

VarisVaris wrote: »

this bug here?

No, it was fixed a while back.

Feel free to try it yourself to confirm!