Maintenance Every Night

ManwithBeard9

You know you don't have to be here, right?

OverdriveA

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Why is there maintenance seemingly every night now?

It's unbelievable.

What about the people who play at night time I think there are a lot of us?

Why don't you do it during the day when people are at work or better yet, roll out content that is tested so we don't have to be in this constant state of maintenance.

I barely have any playtime because there is so much maintenance practically every day. And if it isn't maintenance it's a DDoS, or * add in excuse here why the servers are down this time*.

It's just unbelievable. What's the point of spending all this money on a game and expansions if the servers are always down.

@Blanco, every single person on this thread who is scolding you about your question is flat out wrong. I have worked in the information systems field most of my career, going back to the late 1980's. There has always been a difference between production (live) systems and test or mirror systems. Production systems rarely, if ever go down. Updates (maintenance) and changes are coded into the test/mirror systems, then the current production system is seamlessly replaced by the mirror system with zero downtime to the customer or user.

Can you imagine what the modern world we take for granted would be like if production systems for all manner of things had to be taken down once a week or more? Emergency services, police, fire, hospitals, banking, manufacturing, food and product delivery, education, governments, and many, many more enterprises cannot and do not have their live systems go down for maintenance. So why should customers of a game tolerate loss of use for many hours a week, sometimes not just once a week but several times a week.

I know they're wrong, but people can believe whatever they want- I will continue to believe the truth and they can continue to do whatever they want to do.

I am opposed to the frequency of server 'maintenance', content being rolled out functioning incorrectly, and various other issues in the game and I will continue doing so until the problems are addressed.

Your post is very enlightening. I had not thought about it from that angle and I must say, I agree with you 100%.

I am glad you see that information systems require attention. I too have worked in the IT industry for many years, my entire career, and it always boggles my mind that end-users see this stuff as "magic". They do not understand that these systems are much like an automobile - they require regular maintenance. If you don't change your car's oil, it will eventually seize up and the engine won't start.

Unfortunately, the schedule at which time these systems are updated may not align with your gaming time or preference. It has to happen sometime that will be inconvenient to someone. Even if they created servers for all of the time zones in the world...someone would be impacted - these games are played 24/7. It is just part of the online gaming experience.

Amazing that you brought the car industry up. You do realize that some services offer backup car for the time the customer car is being "maintaned"? That's the whole point of this thread. We don't get any backup car. We're told to handle over the car and wait for as long as it takes, because the company cannot do it just like Guild Wars 2 does it for example. That way nobody would have to wait anything. It can be done. It was done in the past by others. Why it cannot be done here?

AdreannaDrea

@Epona222 *Pops head up* Did... someone say trading guild?

Magdalina

Blanco wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Why is there maintenance seemingly every night now?

It's unbelievable.

What about the people who play at night time I think there are a lot of us?

Why don't you do it during the day when people are at work or better yet, roll out content that is tested so we don't have to be in this constant state of maintenance.

I barely have any playtime because there is so much maintenance practically every day. And if it isn't maintenance it's a DDoS, or * add in excuse here why the servers are down this time*.

It's just unbelievable. What's the point of spending all this money on a game and expansions if the servers are always down.

@Blanco, every single person on this thread who is scolding you about your question is flat out wrong.

I disagree with that viewpoint. It is not wrong to point out that contrary to the original claim, maintenance is not every night. And it is not wrong to point out that 3-6am pacific is actually less populated than 6-9am pacific.

I would love if ZOS implemented seamless patching ala GW2, but it doesn't change the fact that having 3 periods of maintenance in a week is not "every night".

3 days of maintenance a week is an outrage and completely unacceptable.

2 and frankly even 1 is still an outrage.

Hence this thread.

There was a little hyperbole used but hyperbole can be an effective tool in getting your point across.

2 days a week is far, far too much. I am glad that others are agreeing with me.

Why are you playing ESO if 1 maint a week=outrage? I'm not saying ZOS does their job perfectly, if anything I think they do it awfully. But if the only way they can fix something is by taking servers down, then they should take servers down and fix it.

ESO has always had a maintenance or even 2 a week. It probably always will. Maybe it could be possible to avoid it completely if ZOS invested a few millions into server upgrades or Idk, but we all know it's not going to happen. It's here to stay. If you can't accept this fact without an emotional breakdown, perhaps you should try a different game that'd cause you less stress.

cellobuddy

Hm. Not a class alpha troll. Dousing with explanations didn't work.
Not a class bravo troll. Sufficating with multiple posts didn't work.
Not a class charlie troll. No actual logic causing the rage.
Oh crap! I think we have a class delta troll, folks! Only way to fight it is to jettison the thing!!

Wolfenbelle

Seri wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Why is there maintenance seemingly every night now?

It's unbelievable.

What about the people who play at night time I think there are a lot of us?

Why don't you do it during the day when people are at work or better yet, roll out content that is tested so we don't have to be in this constant state of maintenance.

I barely have any playtime because there is so much maintenance practically every day. And if it isn't maintenance it's a DDoS, or * add in excuse here why the servers are down this time*.

It's just unbelievable. What's the point of spending all this money on a game and expansions if the servers are always down.

@Blanco, every single person on this thread who is scolding you about your question is flat out wrong.

I disagree with that viewpoint. It is not wrong to point out that contrary to the original claim, maintenance is not every night. And it is not wrong to point out that 3-6am pacific is actually less populated than 6-9am pacific.

I would love if ZOS implemented seamless patching ala GW2, but it doesn't change the fact that having 3 periods of maintenance in a fortnight is not "every night".

It is wrong to scold the OP the way people are doing on this thread, especially since the core issue he raised is valid. He might not have stated it to your liking or the liking of others, but that should not cause all this mindless scolding. Look at it from this perspective: suppose you did not have access to your bank account once or twice a week because the bank took its live systems off line for maintenance. Suppose you had a medical emergency, but you could not reach emergency services because their computer system that runs dispatching was down for maintenance. Suppose your paycheck doesn't arrive on time because your employer's payroll system was down for maintenance.

I hope you get the point. Online gaming, while nowhere remotely as important as most real world examples, nevertheless has paying customers to serve. Inconveniencing those customers should be rare, not routine.

OverdriveA

Epona222 wrote: »

OverdriveA wrote: »

.

Epona222 wrote: »

OverdriveA wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You can disagree with it in principle as much as you like, it's the straight up reality that THEY CANNOT DO THEM SEPARATELY - LIVE WITH IT.

They could if they valued player experience more over their own corner cutting policy. Your point is as valid as if the world leaders said 75 years ago that Hit-ler is now going to rule the world, because it's too hard to fight him - live with it.

No, I'm not going to live it it. And others aren't going to live with it either. It's outrageous disregard for customer well being perpetuated by companies like Blizzard, Trion Worlds, Bethesda, and others over the years since large scale games were introduced to the market. Just because how shi**y this is being handled for years now, it doesn't mean it's ok to treat players like garbage all the time. This has to end at some point.

Zenimax used to do it - they used to do different maintenance times, up until about a year ago - so don't be bringing this it's been handled this way for years, because I can tell you that's a straight up lie. If you'd been here for years, you'd know that full well, you're just looking for an argument - complete fail, sorry. Because I played on 2 servers, I had to have 2 separate installs and patch each one individually, download each update individually. They merged them into one client, and now the patches have to be deployed at the same time, unless you really want the EU servers to not recognise the game version for 12 hours until they have maintenance - I am not sure how many more ways I can explain it to you.

Oh and by the way, likening this to the events that preceded WW2 is not going to win you any favours with me, I lost relatives, you are talking about a couple of hours of being bored without a game - what the serious you know what is wrong with you?

First of all, I'm talking about MMO's in general. Using paying customers as testers became a rule for the industry not an exception. So no, that's not a lie. That's the reality.

I wasn't here a year ago, the game was unplayable for 2 years since the start. They've finally brought it to a point where it's passable, but the blew the maintenance part. Is it possible for you to realize that there is a 3rd option actually? That's not a choice between having to wait for 12 hours to play, or having a few maintenances a week. It's a choice between doing it in a way to does not interrupt paying customers from using the product they bought AT ALL, and doing it the way they do now.

Also, please be informed that I'm not trying to win favours with you. I don't care about you if you have to know. I think that it's hard to find anyone who didn't lose relatives during the IIWW. The point being even if it's hard, you have to do it, because it's right. In comparison to not doing it right, which is what we have right now. It's not a matter of few hours here and there. It's a matter of industry standards and client approach in general.

Sorry, I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now I know you are trolling. The game was not unplayable for 2 years, because I and many others have been playing it during that time. I can assure you I have not been wandering around Tamriel alone. For most of that 2 years I've been running a moderately successful trading guild and playing with friends and guildmates the entire time.

You say it has been unplayable, but that is not an absolute fact, and is contradicted by my own experience of the game.

If you have come back after these allegedly unplayable years (during which myself and many others have been enjoying ourselves) and then you start moaning how it isn't up to your standard yet... then I quite happily say to you, sling your incredibly critical hook, and go elsewhere. You don't seem to want to be here, and we don't need you. So go.

Stating an opinion is not trolling dude. Why is that every time someone says something the other person does not agree with, you hear a troll being thrown at him? Have you ever heard about having an opinion different from others?

It was unplayable for me, it was playable for you. Probably that's why you don't see an issue with maintenance and I do. You have a right for your perception, I have a right for mine. And please don't tell me what to do, because you actually don't have a right for that.

And I love how you completely disregard the part about shi**y industry standards and client approach and move on to irrelevant stuff. Hats off to your logic. Over and out.

Wolfenbelle

drakhan2002_ESO wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Why is there maintenance seemingly every night now?

It's unbelievable.

What about the people who play at night time I think there are a lot of us?

Why don't you do it during the day when people are at work or better yet, roll out content that is tested so we don't have to be in this constant state of maintenance.

I barely have any playtime because there is so much maintenance practically every day. And if it isn't maintenance it's a DDoS, or * add in excuse here why the servers are down this time*.

It's just unbelievable. What's the point of spending all this money on a game and expansions if the servers are always down.

@Blanco, every single person on this thread who is scolding you about your question is flat out wrong. I have worked in the information systems field most of my career, going back to the late 1980's. There has always been a difference between production (live) systems and test or mirror systems. Production systems rarely, if ever go down. Updates (maintenance) and changes are coded into the test/mirror systems, then the current production system is seamlessly replaced by the mirror system with zero downtime to the customer or user.

Can you imagine what the modern world we take for granted would be like if production systems for all manner of things had to be taken down once a week or more? Emergency services, police, fire, hospitals, banking, manufacturing, food and product delivery, education, governments, and many, many more enterprises cannot and do not have their live systems go down for maintenance. So why should customers of a game tolerate loss of use for many hours a week, sometimes not just once a week but several times a week.

I know they're wrong, but people can believe whatever they want- I will continue to believe the truth and they can continue to do whatever they want to do.

I am opposed to the frequency of server 'maintenance', content being rolled out functioning incorrectly, and various other issues in the game and I will continue doing so until the problems are addressed.

Your post is very enlightening. I had not thought about it from that angle and I must say, I agree with you 100%.

I am glad you see that information systems require attention. I too have worked in the IT industry for many years, my entire career, and it always boggles my mind that end-users see this stuff as "magic". They do not understand that these systems are much like an automobile - they require regular maintenance. If you don't change your car's oil, it will eventually seize up and the engine won't start.

Unfortunately, the schedule at which time these systems are updated may not align with your gaming time or preference. It has to happen sometime that will be inconvenient to someone. Even if they created servers for all of the time zones in the world...someone would be impacted - these games are played 24/7. It is just part of the online gaming experience.

@drakhan2002_ESO @Blanco — drakhan, if you worked in IT, then you know that systems maintenance, enhancements, etc., are not performed on live systems, but on identical systems run in parallel (test/mirror). Live systems are rarely taken down deliberately for patching. Updates are moved into production so that, from a customer or user point of view, it is seamless and they do not experience downtime. If you do not know this, then your claim about working in IT is suspect. Feel free to run a Google search on the topic.

Epona222

OverdriveA wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

OverdriveA wrote: »

.

Epona222 wrote: »

OverdriveA wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

You can disagree with it in principle as much as you like, it's the straight up reality that THEY CANNOT DO THEM SEPARATELY - LIVE WITH IT.

They could if they valued player experience more over their own corner cutting policy. Your point is as valid as if the world leaders said 75 years ago that Hit-ler is now going to rule the world, because it's too hard to fight him - live with it.

No, I'm not going to live it it. And others aren't going to live with it either. It's outrageous disregard for customer well being perpetuated by companies like Blizzard, Trion Worlds, Bethesda, and others over the years since large scale games were introduced to the market. Just because how shi**y this is being handled for years now, it doesn't mean it's ok to treat players like garbage all the time. This has to end at some point.

Zenimax used to do it - they used to do different maintenance times, up until about a year ago - so don't be bringing this it's been handled this way for years, because I can tell you that's a straight up lie. If you'd been here for years, you'd know that full well, you're just looking for an argument - complete fail, sorry. Because I played on 2 servers, I had to have 2 separate installs and patch each one individually, download each update individually. They merged them into one client, and now the patches have to be deployed at the same time, unless you really want the EU servers to not recognise the game version for 12 hours until they have maintenance - I am not sure how many more ways I can explain it to you.

Oh and by the way, likening this to the events that preceded WW2 is not going to win you any favours with me, I lost relatives, you are talking about a couple of hours of being bored without a game - what the serious you know what is wrong with you?

First of all, I'm talking about MMO's in general. Using paying customers as testers became a rule for the industry not an exception. So no, that's not a lie. That's the reality.

I wasn't here a year ago, the game was unplayable for 2 years since the start. They've finally brought it to a point where it's passable, but the blew the maintenance part. Is it possible for you to realize that there is a 3rd option actually? That's not a choice between having to wait for 12 hours to play, or having a few maintenances a week. It's a choice between doing it in a way to does not interrupt paying customers from using the product they bought AT ALL, and doing it the way they do now.

Also, please be informed that I'm not trying to win favours with you. I don't care about you if you have to know. I think that it's hard to find anyone who didn't lose relatives during the IIWW. The point being even if it's hard, you have to do it, because it's right. In comparison to not doing it right, which is what we have right now. It's not a matter of few hours here and there. It's a matter of industry standards and client approach in general.

Sorry, I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, but now I know you are trolling. The game was not unplayable for 2 years, because I and many others have been playing it during that time. I can assure you I have not been wandering around Tamriel alone. For most of that 2 years I've been running a moderately successful trading guild and playing with friends and guildmates the entire time.

You say it has been unplayable, but that is not an absolute fact, and is contradicted by my own experience of the game.

If you have come back after these allegedly unplayable years (during which myself and many others have been enjoying ourselves) and then you start moaning how it isn't up to your standard yet... then I quite happily say to you, sling your incredibly critical hook, and go elsewhere. You don't seem to want to be here, and we don't need you. So go.

Stating an opinion is not trolling dude. Why is that every time someone says something the other person does not agree with, you hear a troll being thrown at him? Have you ever heard about having an opinion different from others?

It was unplayable for me, it was playable for you. Probably that's why you don't see an issue with maintenance and I do. You have a right for your perception, I have a right for mine. And please don't tell me what to do, because you actually don't have a right for that.

And I love how you completely disregard the part about shi**y industry standards and client approach and move on to irrelevant stuff. Hats off to your logic. Over and out.

You still haven't said how or why it was unplayable for you, I assumed you were talking about gameplay (which, let's face it, if I can do vet dungeons, anyone can), but maybe there is some technical issue preventing you from fully enjoying the game?

And unless there is a technical issue, the statement that it is unplayable is subjective rather than based in fact.

AdreannaDrea

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Look at it from this perspective: suppose you did not have access to your bank account once or twice a week because the bank took its live systems off line for maintenance. Suppose you had a medical emergency, but you could not reach emergency services because their computer system that runs dispatching was down for maintenance. Suppose your paycheck doesn't arrive on time because your employer's payroll system was down for maintenance.

I hope you get the point. Online gaming, while nowhere remotely as important as most real world examples, nevertheless has paying customers to serve. Inconveniencing those customers should be rare, not routine.

Imagine your bank told you that there was a flaw in the system that allowed online hackers to bypass their security, and they had to take down the servers for three hours to make sure that their paying customers were safe and got the service they paid for.

Suppose your emergency services are down for three hours because someone has realised that a group of terrorists are monitoring the calls in order to gain information about the best hospital to hit in a specific area is, and the only way they can fix that is by rebooting the whole thing.

Imagine your paycheck doesn't arrive on time because somebody at your company has managed to hack into the system and get all employee details and is using them to create false identities in your name, to swindle you out of all of your hard earned money to go sit on a beach on Hawaii - and they can catch the guy in three hours, as they know exactly 'when' he hits.

Suppose an online game goes down for three hours to patch and hotfix the expansion they just released, so that paying customers could have exactly the product they paid for, without feeling like they've been cheated out of money by paying for something that doesn't work.

OverdriveA

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Why is there maintenance seemingly every night now?

It's unbelievable.

What about the people who play at night time I think there are a lot of us?

Why don't you do it during the day when people are at work or better yet, roll out content that is tested so we don't have to be in this constant state of maintenance.

I barely have any playtime because there is so much maintenance practically every day. And if it isn't maintenance it's a DDoS, or * add in excuse here why the servers are down this time*.

It's just unbelievable. What's the point of spending all this money on a game and expansions if the servers are always down.

@Blanco, every single person on this thread who is scolding you about your question is flat out wrong.

I disagree with that viewpoint. It is not wrong to point out that contrary to the original claim, maintenance is not every night. And it is not wrong to point out that 3-6am pacific is actually less populated than 6-9am pacific.

I would love if ZOS implemented seamless patching ala GW2, but it doesn't change the fact that having 3 periods of maintenance in a fortnight is not "every night".

It is wrong to scold the OP the way people are doing on this thread, especially since the core issue he raised is valid. He might not have stated it to your liking or the liking of others, but that should not cause all this mindless scolding. Look at it from this perspective: suppose you did not have access to your bank account once or twice a week because the bank took its live systems off line for maintenance. Suppose you had a medical emergency, but you could not reach emergency services because their computer system that runs dispatching was down for maintenance. Suppose your paycheck doesn't arrive on time because your employer's payroll system was down for maintenance.

I hope you get the point. Online gaming, while nowhere remotely as important as most real world examples, nevertheless has paying customers to serve. Inconveniencing those customers should be rare, not routine.

Stated in a much more convenient and digestible way for some people. Completely agree.

Kiralyn2000

Blanco wrote: »

3 days of maintenance a week is an outrage and completely unacceptable.

2 and frankly even 1 is still an outrage.

Hence this thread.

There was a little hyperbole used but hyperbole can be an effective tool in getting your point across.

2 days a week is far, far too much. I am glad that others are agreeing with me.

Even one day of maintenance a week is "an outrage"? Wow, you've clearly not played other MMOs. Or perhaps you quit them because of the outrage.

Honestly, I don't really notice that much difference in the maint schedule from the other MMOs I've played in the past (WoW, STO, SWTOR, etc...) And yeah, every time there was a maint in those games, there'd be some "But I work at X time, how dare they maint at Y time while I can play!!1!1!one!" threads that popped up.

Personally, I was quite pleased with how the Morrowind launch went. Less problems/extended maint/downtime/login queues/lag than I expect from a major launch on a big MMO.

Epona222

This isn't a hospital, or emergency services - it's a bleeping HOBBY.

Good grief.

DMuehlhausen

Blanco wrote: »

my point is please change it to during the day when people are at work

But then it's primetime for EU, or Austrailians. there is also going to be a group of people who are affected by downtime. If this is the only thing you can do on your free time then find another hobby to help you get through maintenance.

rhapsodious

Epona222 wrote: »

This isn't a hospital, or emergency services - it's a bleeping HOBBY.

Good grief.

but muh vibeo jams

I'd rather the game get taken down for maintenance and the issue actually fixed than dancing around it and having to deal with it in its quasi-working state (like the dungeon finder queue - I didn't use it unless I HAD to pug a role because of how irritating it was). And, while I guess the night owls and Australians got screwed, someone had to because Akatosh is asleep and won't turn back time.

Seri

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Why is there maintenance seemingly every night now?

It's unbelievable.

What about the people who play at night time I think there are a lot of us?

Why don't you do it during the day when people are at work or better yet, roll out content that is tested so we don't have to be in this constant state of maintenance.

I barely have any playtime because there is so much maintenance practically every day. And if it isn't maintenance it's a DDoS, or * add in excuse here why the servers are down this time*.

It's just unbelievable. What's the point of spending all this money on a game and expansions if the servers are always down.

@Blanco, every single person on this thread who is scolding you about your question is flat out wrong.

I disagree with that viewpoint. It is not wrong to point out that contrary to the original claim, maintenance is not every night. And it is not wrong to point out that 3-6am pacific is actually less populated than 6-9am pacific.

I would love if ZOS implemented seamless patching ala GW2, but it doesn't change the fact that having 3 periods of maintenance in a fortnight is not "every night".

It is wrong to scold the OP the way people are doing on this thread, especially since the core issue he raised is valid. He might not have stated it to your liking or the liking of others, but that should not cause all this mindless scolding. Look at it from this perspective: suppose you did not have access to your bank account once or twice a week because the bank took its live systems off line for maintenance. Suppose you had a medical emergency, but you could not reach emergency services because their computer system that runs dispatching was down for maintenance. Suppose your paycheck doesn't arrive on time because your employer's payroll system was down for maintenance.

I hope you get the point. Online gaming, while nowhere remotely as important as most real world examples, nevertheless has paying customers to serve. Inconveniencing those customers should be rare, not routine.

Australia must be a third-rate country in that case...

suppose you did not have access to your bank account once or twice a week because the bank took its live systems off line for maintenance.

I regularly see 'Internet and phone banking will not be available between 11p and 6a' on my online portal and be unable to access online banking services.

Suppose your paycheck doesn't arrive on time because your employer's payroll system was down for maintenance.

Again, maintenance occurs out of hours, but yes, I have had a payslip late as well.

But note, both of the above outages are during off hours - when least people will need the system - much like the 1am NA timeslot that the OP is upset at. I'm sure ZOS has looked at their traffic and chose the least populated slot / least disruption.

Suppose you had a medical emergency, but you could not reach emergency services because their computer system that runs dispatching was down for maintenance.

Possibly an exception here based on the criticality of emergency service dispatch vs an MMO, but that redundancy also costs money.

If the argument had bypassed the excessive exaggeration and asked to implement seamless patching, sure (although would we trust ZOS to implement it correctly anyway?). As I said, it'd be great if that was to happen (and work), but the entire premise of the original post implied complaint at the fact it happened all the time, and at a time that didn't work for him.

ZOS_Ragnar

Things in this thread have gotten a bit out of hand, so we have closed it. While no one enjoys maintenance disrupting their play time, we do ask that you keep your posts civil and constructive. Remember it is never okay to personally attack other members of the community. The good news is maintenance is now complete so you can get back to playing the game.