The Most Epic Terrible Bad Pug Ever. With Pictures!

Zyrudin

Emothic wrote: »

You know, situations like these cold be easily avoided if you take the 1 - 3 minutes to educate these players on how to prooperly play a dungeon. Of which you did not and had to deal with this end result. I never truely understand these threads. They all complain about bad players, bad groups, in the dungeon finder. Yet they make no attempt to help educate the players. Instead of spending the time to write out a rant/complaint thread, you could of used that time to try and educate or pursade these players to use proper dungeon tactics.

Whenever I get in these situations I tell the playres what they need to do, or how to find a boss. But! I tell them in a polite and constructive manner. I don't insult them on how they play. If my advice is ignored then it is ignored. However, players will start to listen to you when your grouop starts wiping over and over again.

So I recommend this. Instead of wasting your time create a thread like this. Use that time to help those players understand the dungeon mechanics and make the whole experiance more smoother and faster during your run.

I agree entirely with mild or, at least, less extreme cases.
However, if you sign up as a Damage Dealer for a vet dungeon and the extent of your DPS knowledge goes only as far as heavy attacks, I am sorry to say that there really isn't anything one can explain to them that would work. These players have to go back and play the overworld quests, the public dungeons and the delves, to even begin to grasp just the basic skills, buffs and debuffs.

But I agree, and have said so in the past, that this game lacks a proper extensive tutorial. In fact, the starter islands should be transformed into proper progressive tutorials about everything in the game. There would still be people who would skip them though.

VagabondLife

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Yes... I absolutely am. I'll repeat the part you did not quote " If you cannot bother to help others, you should not bother to make forum post about how bad they are. You quit the group and move on."

Wow, you sure do like telling people what they "should" do, don't you.

Dark_Aether wrote: »

We all know there are bad players in the game, and you should expect them in grouping tool.

There it is again! I'm sorry, I had no idea you were the official ESO authority on how to use the group finder. In the future I'll be sure to run all of my pug decisions past you, so you can mansplain the right way to do it.

Dark_Aether wrote: »

I only pug when I can carry the group.

How sad for you. If you only attempt content that you know you can easily beat, how will you ever grow as a player?

Cadbury

Between this thread and the threads about Jester Festival ending a day early, I'm going to be entertained all day today

emily3989

Emothic wrote: »

You know, situations like these cold be easily avoided if you take the 1 - 3 minutes to educate these players on how to prooperly play a dungeon. Of which you did not and had to deal with this end result. I never truely understand these threads. They all complain about bad players, bad groups, in the dungeon finder. Yet they make no attempt to help educate the players. Instead of spending the time to write out a rant/complaint thread, you could of used that time to try and educate or pursade these players to use proper dungeon tactics.

Whenever I get in these situations I tell the playres what they need to do, or how to find a boss. But! I tell them in a polite and constructive manner. I don't insult them on how they play. If my advice is ignored then it is ignored. However, players will start to listen to you when your grouop starts wiping over and over again.

So I recommend this. Instead of wasting your time create a thread like this. Use that time to help those players understand the dungeon mechanics and make the whole experiance more smoother and faster during your run.

If they are this chewed up at 550+ cp I doubt a few chat messages would make a difference. Probably don't even know they have a group chat

Dark_Aether

@VagabondLife

Stormproof, only CP280

Ok, let's back it up! I don't like sounding too aggressive and it seems to be headed that way. I just personally like to help others and dislike these types of forum posts.

It's my opinion. You cannot help? Don't try to expose on forum, or make a funny story of it.

Balticthunder

The products of XP boost, get ready for more as next xp boost event is around the corner.

luen79rwb17_ESO

All I can say is that looking at your gear and skills you don't need to go full healer / support on dungeon runs, especially Pug runs.

Just slot a HoT and a direct heal (BoL or matriach) and rest should be DPS. It will at least make it less frustrating if you're not willing to help.

In the case where you actually have to solo everything just get your MSA build and wear heavy armor if needed. Explain the boss, mechanics, give them a couple of tries. If not just solo it. These players will appreciate your help.

VagabondLife

Dark_Aether wrote: »

@VagabondLife

Stormproof, only CP280

Ok, let's back it up! I don't like sounding too aggressive and it seems to be headed that way. I just personally like to help others and dislike these types of forum posts.

It's my opinion. You cannot help? Don't try to expose on forum, or make a funny story of it.

Why not? I didn't name and shame anyone, and it IS a funny story. Either that, or it's 60 soul gems, $3k in repair costs, and 3 hours of my life I'll never get back. I'm just trying to look at the bright side.

Also, you just told me what to do. Again. Do you even realize you're doing that?

CromulentForumID

Dark_Aether wrote: »

@VagabondLife

Stormproof, only CP280

Ok, let's back it up! I don't like sounding too aggressive and it seems to be headed that way. I just personally like to help others and dislike these types of forum posts.

It's my opinion. You cannot help? Don't try to expose on forum, or make a funny story of it.

I think the part you keep missing is the fact that it takes two to help: One person to offer the help, and another person to accept and act on the information.

The OP was helpful: they offered a couple of suggestions. Maybe not enough to suit your tastes, but there it is.

Cannot help? That would imply that the player on the other end was eagerly listening to the feedback and implementing the suggestions, and the OP was just not good enough help that poor person.

That's not what happened.

But good job telling everyone in the thread how personally helpful and a cut above you are

rotaugen454

VagabondLife wrote: »

Dark_Aether wrote: »

@VagabondLife

Stormproof, only CP280

Ok, let's back it up! I don't like sounding too aggressive and it seems to be headed that way. I just personally like to help others and dislike these types of forum posts.

It's my opinion. You cannot help? Don't try to expose on forum, or make a funny story of it.

Why not? I didn't name and shame anyone, and it IS a funny story. Either that, or it's 60 soul gems, $3k in repair costs, and 3 hours of my life I'll never get back. I'm just trying to look at the bright side.

Also, you just told me what to do. Again. Do you even realize you're doing that?

You need to stop telling him what he did...

Panth141

Sweet Jesus. Some people can make an argument out of anything.

Entertaining post, OP. I enjoyed it.

Magdalina

I feel this thread turning into another casual vs elitist debate. It's about time, we haven't had one on the front page for a couple hours I think

To people saying OP should've offered (more) advice...but didn't he do the right/nice things by letting them play how they want and not trying to tell them what to do? They didn't ASK for advice after all. And he might've hurt their feelings if he told them they suck.

At least that's the attitude I get most of the time, in game or even on forums.

NordSwordnBoard

@VagabondLife

How dare you bring a funny story to the forum?

I come to the forum for info mainly, and usually what I find is QQ and bickering. Posts like this and others that turn venting into something people can laugh at are great. You made people laugh, and that's a positive thing.

VagabondLife

Magdalina wrote: »

I feel this thread turning into another casual vs elitist debate. It's about time, we haven't had one on the front page for a couple hours I think

To people saying OP should've offered (more) advice...but didn't he do the right/nice things by letting them play how they want and not trying to tell them what to do? They didn't ASK for advice after all. And he might've hurt their feelings if he told them they suck.

At least that's the attitude I get most of the time, in game or even on forums.

Seriously, I was just trying to share an amusing story.

But here's the truth. This particular alt is less than 4 weeks old, and was leveled entirely through healing easy normals with two of my more forgiving friends. I don't have the first clue how to deal damage with her, and I would never presume to give advice to any templar DD, even an obviously terrible one.

Same goes for the tank - I've never done it, have no experience with DK, and honestly don't have any idea how taunts work in this game. All I know is that when I'm getting my face chewed off by mobs I've barely touched, someone isn't doing their job.

Now the sorcerer is a different story - I main a magsorc DD and have a pretty good handle on the rotation. I also LOVE to talk, lol, and would very happily explain my entire build to anyone who cared. But this guy ignored several requests to put the merchant away and switch to a DPS pet. He ignored me when I asked if he had any AoE skills he could slot for the trash. He ignored me when I asked him to please stop running out of the big green circle that's healing him. He even ignored me at the very end, when I linked my monster helm in chat and asked if anyone needed it. He simply took his merchant and his clannfear and left group without so much as a "GG."

After putting up with that for 3 hours, it would take more booze than I have in my entire liquor cabinet to go chasing after this guy to offer even more unwanted tips and advice.

I'm sorry. I'm neither a saint, nor an ESO expert. I'm just some chick who wants to learn to heal dungeons...

Kodrac

Dark_Aether wrote: »

Don't try to expose on forum, or make a funny story of it.

It wouldn't be funny if it wasn't true.

raglau

I am so glad you stayed with the group so that you could:

1 - get these shocking pictures
2 - tell us this jaw-dropping (for all the wrong reasons) tale

How the hell you put up with those losers I do not know, but kudos in spades.

EmEm_Oh

Off topic a little, but VagabondLife, what programs did you use to see the info. Much appreciated if you can tell me.

WhiteMage

I'm normally tucked away safely and soundly in PvP land, but last week I had the bright idea of making a new build which required a heavy EG helm. It wasn't a weekend soon didn't have to golden to save me; I quickly accepted that I would need to PvE for this. Now, I have been at the CP cap since 501 and I'm quite used to carrying my groups with that as both the DD and healer, but recently I have cleared all of my CP. Why? Mostly in protest of CP, but also because hard mode activated. With that in mind, I remove my role as a DD and queue up. I don't need the extra dps from cp if I'm the healer, so my group should be no worse off.

Or so I thought. The thing is, playing without CP is harder than I remembered it by a wide margin. Things can actually kill you in dungeons without you being an idiot, keeping track of your resources suddenly becomes difficult where you would usually ignore it, and you can't contribute nearly as much toward killing mobs. I don't let this deter me, though, and make sure to do my role well. I did this in a couple groups and they all went down in one of two ways: things died slowly until Grobull where the group disbanded or finished through the end. Invariably, however, I put back on my CP at Grobull, because all groups wiped without me AoEing the adds. The group that probably should have made it best with the highest average CP had the 600 CP tank quit after the first wipe. That disbanded at Grobull. One group had a tank who was a great sport and a sorc that had upper-mid level CP and knew what he was doing despite less than stellar dps, and that one guy who in this case was an mDK than only used heavy attacks or her ww ult and its heavy attacks. Slow and steady won the race but not the helm.

Should I have used CP? Maybe. I could fulfill my role without it so that should be all that is needed. I'm not obligated to carry all or any of my groups though, so long as I put up with the time it takes without complaint. Have I had better stories that had a clear point? Yes I have.

Try removing your CP though. See just how big of a difference it makes and the power creep it allows.

parkham

I don't feel so bad now - I thought we were doing terrible running nDarkshade II for the first time down a player and then asking for help in guild / zone chat at the last boss and getting... laughed at.

Magdalina

VagabondLife wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I feel this thread turning into another casual vs elitist debate. It's about time, we haven't had one on the front page for a couple hours I think

To people saying OP should've offered (more) advice...but didn't he do the right/nice things by letting them play how they want and not trying to tell them what to do? They didn't ASK for advice after all. And he might've hurt their feelings if he told them they suck.

At least that's the attitude I get most of the time, in game or even on forums.

Seriously, I was just trying to share an amusing story.

But here's the truth. This particular alt is less than 4 weeks old, and was leveled entirely through healing easy normals with two of my more forgiving friends. I don't have the first clue how to deal damage with her, and I would never presume to give advice to any templar DD, even an obviously terrible one.

Same goes for the tank - I've never done it, have no experience with DK, and honestly don't have any idea how taunts work in this game. All I know is that when I'm getting my face chewed off by mobs I've barely touched, someone isn't doing their job.

Now the sorcerer is a different story - I main a magsorc DD and have a pretty good handle on the rotation. I also LOVE to talk, lol, and would very happily explain my entire build to anyone who cared. But this guy ignored several requests to put the merchant away and switch to a DPS pet. He ignored me when I asked if he had any AoE skills he could slot for the trash. He ignored me when I asked him to please stop running out of the big green circle that's healing him. He even ignored me at the very end, when I linked my monster helm in chat and asked if anyone needed it. He simply took his merchant and his clannfear and left group without so much as a "GG."

After putting up with that for 3 hours, it would take more booze than I have in my entire liquor cabinet to go chasing after this guy to offer even more unwanted tips and advice.

I'm sorry. I'm neither a saint, nor an ESO expert. I'm just some chick who wants to learn to heal dungeons...

I feel you. My post was more in your defence than anything

Thanks for the laugh, again. That's a good attitude to have about it imo.

VagabondLife

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Off topic a little, but VagabondLife, what programs did you use to see the info. Much appreciated if you can tell me.

Oh, I use WAY too many addons, LOL. There's a reason I ALWAYS zone into the dungeon to find the rest of the group already halfway to the first boss.

Let's see... Combat Metrics is the one that shows the detailed damage reports, and also gives me the bar with the running DPS/HPS totals that's above my skill bar.

S'rendarr is the one with the buff timers. (Which has somehow gotten all kinds of screwed up on this toon, to the point where it's not even helpful anymore. What I'd like is to be able to see each instance of Mutagen I have going - so it should show up 4 times in the tracker - but only ONE instance of the Major and Minor buffs that get applied to the whole group. If anyone has any ideas on how to make that work, I'd appreciate it!)

Greymind Quick Slot Bar for, well, my quickslot bar.

There are more, LOL, but I think that's the only ones you could see in the screenshots.

Kartalin

@WhiteMage Props for trying PVE with no cp, sounds like rough going there. Hit me up if you ever need a dungeon tank (@ Larinon in game), templar heals or mediocre templar DD (20k dps) and don't feel like pugging it.

@VagabondLife With a group like that it takes a lot of patience to stick it out as long as you did. As you get more comfortable healing I think you'll be able to do better dps on your own to help out the group. I tend to be able to do about 10k single target dps while healing as long as the tank is competent. Keep working at it!

GwJSVDShark

That's awesome, i needed the laugh, thanks.

Once in Craglorn I was heals with my Templar, and ended up doing heals and DPS at same time as the 2 DPS were templars with light armor. Mid way up the group dungeon i get kicked out , and i was dumb enough to ask why. I was told they were doing a party for this dude trying to level up, and I was taking all the kills and heals from him (although he was dead most of the time). Good times.

GawdSB

LMAOOOO

I'm only laughing because it's not me in the situation. I've had groups like this, Sorc in heavy armor bragging how he never uses food, etc.

PUGs lead to this kind of mess.

GawdSB

Also, this is why you don't judge players by CP.

zaria

Zyrudin wrote: »

Emothic wrote: »

You know, situations like these cold be easily avoided if you take the 1 - 3 minutes to educate these players on how to prooperly play a dungeon. Of which you did not and had to deal with this end result. I never truely understand these threads. They all complain about bad players, bad groups, in the dungeon finder. Yet they make no attempt to help educate the players. Instead of spending the time to write out a rant/complaint thread, you could of used that time to try and educate or pursade these players to use proper dungeon tactics.

Whenever I get in these situations I tell the playres what they need to do, or how to find a boss. But! I tell them in a polite and constructive manner. I don't insult them on how they play. If my advice is ignored then it is ignored. However, players will start to listen to you when your grouop starts wiping over and over again.

So I recommend this. Instead of wasting your time create a thread like this. Use that time to help those players understand the dungeon mechanics and make the whole experiance more smoother and faster during your run.

I agree entirely with mild or, at least, less extreme cases.
However, if you sign up as a Damage Dealer for a vet dungeon and the extent of your DPS knowledge goes only as far as heavy attacks, I am sorry to say that there really isn't anything one can explain to them that would work. These players have to go back and play the overworld quests, the public dungeons and the delves, to even begin to grasp just the basic skills, buffs and debuffs.

But I agree, and have said so in the past, that this game lacks a proper extensive tutorial. In fact, the starter islands should be transformed into proper progressive tutorials about everything in the game. There would still be people who would skip them though.

Agree however stating island is far too early, perhaps level 20, 10 and an requirement for using the dungeon finder would be perfect but you might have too few skills to properly teach you at this level.
Make it an undaunted training school with all the stereotypes, grizzled orc sergeant teaching tanking, nose in sky Altmer teaching healing. And you get to try both with an standard setup. In it self very useful as you learn why tank turn boss away from group and why you should stay in the healer - tank line, you learn the basic, taunts, use of AoE's - spamable - AoE.
Buff, HoT debuff , taunts. repeat of blocking and interrupt.
Rest of the group is npc and you go trough multiple scenarios and roles.
And you have to pass to use dungeon finder, Focus is mechanics over performance but its some requirements

Veteran dungeons require another round, this is harder and the npc is not much better
It prepares you for pugs, not guild runs with friends as its an requirement for puging veteran dungeons.
Quest is repeatable for all roles and give decent rewards

Didaco

Wait no, that sorcerer has thrown a pretty damn amazing Force Pulse there!

And there's even a block-casted one!

Loves_guars

I understand that it can be very frustrating, I don't get why inexpert players jump into dungeons without being prepared, I know I took my sweet time to do it even knowing MMO mechanics. It's pretty selfish to just queue for dungeons without knowing how to play.

Still, I think this post isn't very nice either. While I admit I suffered this kind of experience with pugs, I try to explain things, if things are beyond salvation I just apologize and leave.
I know people in real life that play this game because it's beautiful or because they like TES franchise, they don't know anything about MMOs and rotations and mix/maxing (again, not nice for them to queue for a dungeon, but they aren't stupid, they just don't have a clue about MMOs!)

I think posting this just to make fun of new players is petty, and frankly this kind of pedantic behavior puts me off more than anything in this game. I'd rather play with those noobies any day than listen to these bullies.

VagabondLife

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I think posting this just to make fun of new players is petty, and frankly this kind of pedantic behavior puts me off more than anything in this game. I'd rather play with those noobies any day than listen to these bullies.

See, that's why I included all the screenshots. I knew nobody would believe that these guys were actually CP 561 and CP 600 unless I had proof...

Mush55

Funny story made me laugh nice one op........