Would You Accept nMSA Dropping Maelstrom Weapons? (read before rage posting)

Lore_lai

I don't understand why this argument is still on - vMSA has a terrible reward system. People have completed the arena a LOT of times and still haven't seen the reward they desire. The arena is *not* fun for a lot of us because it's just boring repeatable content that you can't even share with your friends.

Instead of looking for band-aid fixes and settling for breadcrumbs why not provide constructive feedback like asking for a token system?
It still would be boring AF but at least you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Turelus

Yes

Lore_lai wrote: »

I don't understand why this argument is still on - vMSA has a terrible reward system. People have completed the arena a LOT of times and still haven't seen the reward they desire. The arena is *not* fun for a lot of us because it's just boring repeatable content that you can't even share with your friends.

Instead of looking for band-aid fixes and settling for breadcrumbs why not provide constructive feedback like asking for a token system?
It still would be boring AF but at least you know there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Well I started the thread as a debate to see what people could come up with, however it's the normal elite "git gud" and "just add C150" without anyone really actually debating or discussing.

ZOS have already said they're investigating the idea of a token system but no more info right now.

Juhasow

No

Turelus wrote: »

Chiefpoppasquat wrote: »

I voted no and yet to complete working on it with stam dk and mag sorc but i want to feel like i accomplished something when i do and i will

Why wouldn't you feel accomplished for beating vMSA if nMSA dropped weapons at a very low %?

If You would farm MA flame staff sharpened on vet mode desperatly like some people does and then some newbie player would come and without any efford drop this weapon from normal You would know why

Small chance is still a chance that depressing scenarios can happen

Turelus

Yes

Juhasow wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Chiefpoppasquat wrote: »

I voted no and yet to complete working on it with stam dk and mag sorc but i want to feel like i accomplished something when i do and i will

Why wouldn't you feel accomplished for beating vMSA if nMSA dropped weapons at a very low %?

If You would farm vMA flame staff sharpened desperatly like some people does and then some newbie player would come and without any efford drop this weapon from normal You would know why

Small chance is still a chance that depressing scenarios can happen

I am farming it. I wouldn't care.

A player who is C160 and suffers 1,000 deaths to clear it over a month could still get a flame staff in sharpened. It doesn't mean they're good at vMSA, it doesn't mean they invested, it's all on luck.

Chiefpoppasquat

No

Turelus wrote: »

Chiefpoppasquat wrote: »

I voted no and yet to complete working on it with stam dk and mag sorc but i want to feel like i accomplished something when i do and i will

Why wouldn't you feel accomplished for beating vMSA if nMSA dropped weapons at a very low %?

Because I know I can run through normal and there's only a few things left in game for me to conquer and vmsa is one vet maw other at the end of the day I know my builds would be better with vma weapons but I've done test against people with them and had better dps dummy scores because I know my rotation well. At least on my stam dk I'm still learning my mag sorc

Chiefpoppasquat

No

And really only reason I haven't completed yet is because I'm just now learning the mechanic where things spawn and what not. Everytime I attempt vmsa I start from beginng and now I can get to spider stage with a death or 2 only it's making me a better player all though for the people that have completed multiple times I'm def ok with a token system

Juhasow

No

Turelus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Chiefpoppasquat wrote: »

I voted no and yet to complete working on it with stam dk and mag sorc but i want to feel like i accomplished something when i do and i will

Why wouldn't you feel accomplished for beating vMSA if nMSA dropped weapons at a very low %?

If You would farm vMA flame staff sharpened desperatly like some people does and then some newbie player would come and without any efford drop this weapon from normal You would know why

Small chance is still a chance that depressing scenarios can happen

I am farming it. I wouldn't care.

A player who is C160 and suffers 1,000 deaths to clear it over a month could still get a flame staff in sharpened. It doesn't mean they're good at vMSA, it doesn't mean they invested, it's all on luck.

Atleast he died that 1.000 times and invested some time. Normal mode doesnt require any of those things it's easy walk without ANY effort that doesnt require ANY skill or practice at all. Would be really sad is someone would start to get good rewards for that when others running hunderers of times and get nothing usefull.

VMA weapons are not game changers it's just slight improve given to those who wanted spend their time on practicing vMA and they get reward for their efforts in elite solo content.

No reason to give it to everone just to those that deserved it. Elite content should have elite rewards. That's all. I would rather like some token system on vet mode then weapons dropping on normal mode.

BNOC

No

Turelus wrote: »

Why wouldn't you feel accomplished for beating vMSA if nMSA dropped weapons at a very low %?

Why would they? Actually, why would anyone feel accomplished completing vMSA at all now?

It was designed for 300CP, when you didn't have unlimited attempts or a save feature, all sets including monster sets weren't as strong and builds weren't as strong in general (blockade wasn't being used much, etc) - I know changes have been made since then but there can't be anything now that is less powerful than it used to be with 300 extra CP, surely.

It doesn't surprise me that people feel proud that they've achieved it though, because they probably don't know anything about its roots, but let's be honest, it's certainly not even a fraction of the accomplishment it once was, now.

It'd be even less of one to give someone (even a chance of) weapons, for not being able to even complete a dungeon that's become upwards of 2* easier, than it's initial implementation - You'd be basically rewarding bad players and giving them a false sense of achievement when, a few hundred deaths, learning their class and respectively the mechanics applied throughout the game is definitely the better option for them.

People talk about the seasoned players being *** because we say things like "Git gud" but the truth is, there's too many casuals with no interest in learning, just some obscure victim complex. That's an issue across the whole game, not just MSA and Zenimax should stop catering it.

D0ntevenL1ft

No

Are all monster helms going to drop on non vet as well? Are all masters weapons going to come from normal DSA?

Ive completed VMA for the first time last week and since then I've ran 5 separate times all shortening my completion time. My first run took me 12 hours; the only reason all the people who want this change implemented didn't complete the arena is because they gave up when me, as well as many others kept going with the struggle.

It seems impossible at first yes but once you get it done you get moving through it quicker each time.

Quality of the item is not the issue as previously said; anyone can upgrade with tempers. If it can be completed on a lvl 4 then it should not reward BIS weapons.

Also getting your hands on a Maelstrom weapon isn't going to change your gameplay single handedly. Get a 2h maelstrom weapon doesn't mean you're suddenly king of cyrodil. Although it may help but the bigger problem here is that most stam builds are locked behind gaining these weapons to compete with their magicka counterparts.

greylox

Yes

Surely the two titles you can get from there are the real bragging rights, apart from the fugly staff I don't even notice if other people have the weapons.

VyersReaver

No

Oh the constant battle of elitists vs causals.

Ok I understand that there are people in the grey area here too (frankly I consider myself this) , but the prevalence of the extremes is noticable.

As for the topic, no. BSW is a top-tier set that is extremely easy to get. With vMA weapons dropping from normal there won't be any challenge to getting most BiS items. Only ones challenging would be Gold Trial jewelry and some obscure sets like Velidreth.

Derra

Yes

You can get best in slot moondancer/aether weapons cp160 from normal scaled trials.

I don´t see a reason why you should not be able to get cp160 master and maelstrom weapons from normal DSA and MSA.

Turelus

Yes

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Are all monster helms going to drop on non vet as well? Are all masters weapons going to come from normal DSA?

Erm...

Derra wrote: »

You can get best in slot moondancer/aether weapons cp160 from normal scaled trials.

I don´t see a reason why you should not be able to get cp160 master and maelstrom weapons from normal DSA and MSA.

TBH I entirely expect it's because it's become a standard now. If MSA released with gear set both this debate wouldn't be happening.

However because it's the way it is now some feel the need defend it against change. I don't expect change, but it's been an interesting conversation, some good ideas and musings but mostly just the normal "GIT GUD LALALALALA"

VyersReaver

No

Derra wrote: »

You can get best in slot moondancer/aether weapons cp160 from normal scaled trials.

I don´t see a reason why you should not be able to get cp160 master and maelstrom weapons from normal DSA and MSA.

Can you though? Best in slot means you will never change it for anything else (and some scenarios just require different BiS items). You can't get best in slot jewelry from normal trials.

Edit: sorry, didn't read weapons. But yeah, only Jewelry and vMA weapons have ANY challenge to getting them. Don't want to erase half of it by making vMA weapons *** easy to get.

Destyran

No

No because its a joke compared to veteran i tried it during halloween event and one shotteda mini boss with poison imject on ice stage. I vote hell no.

Derra

Yes

VyersReaver wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You can get best in slot moondancer/aether weapons cp160 from normal scaled trials.

I don´t see a reason why you should not be able to get cp160 master and maelstrom weapons from normal DSA and MSA.

Can you though? Best in slot means you will never change it for anything else (and some scenarios just require different BiS items). You can't get best in slot jewelry from normal trials.

Edit: sorry, didn't read weapons. But yeah, only Jewelry and vMA weapons have ANY challenge to getting them. Don't want to erase half of it by making vMA weapons *** easy to get.

They are already **** easy to get though.

Literally the only thing "hard" about msa is rgn. I´ve gotten all my weapons when it was relatively easy by getting 5 chars on the weekly leaderboards for 4 months straight. I´d probably go mad if i had to endure it nowadays with the bigger trait pool.

People need to let go of the thought that msa weapons represent any form of achievement or skill. It´s either dedication or dumb luck.

Apherius

No

If zenimax make maesltrom weapons dropping on normal , i would create a " Nerf maelstrom weapon " discussion .
Maesltrom weapon are too much strong for drop in normal... a new player with 5K dps or a healer who spam heavy attack OR a tank who spam lava whip SHOULD NOT be able to loot them . they don't deserve the power of maesltrom weapons .

Lore_lai

Derra wrote: »

VyersReaver wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

You can get best in slot moondancer/aether weapons cp160 from normal scaled trials.

I don´t see a reason why you should not be able to get cp160 master and maelstrom weapons from normal DSA and MSA.

Can you though? Best in slot means you will never change it for anything else (and some scenarios just require different BiS items). You can't get best in slot jewelry from normal trials.

Edit: sorry, didn't read weapons. But yeah, only Jewelry and vMA weapons have ANY challenge to getting them. Don't want to erase half of it by making vMA weapons *** easy to get.

They are already **** easy to get though.

Literally the only thing "hard" about msa is rgn. I´ve gotten all my weapons when it was relatively easy by getting 5 chars on the weekly leaderboards for 4 months straight. I´d probably go mad if i had to endure it nowadays with the bigger trait pool.

People need to let go of the thought that msa weapons represent any form of achievement or skill. It´s either dedication or dumb luck.

I get your point and the point you made about n!Trials but if these weapons would drop in normal mode then where is the sense of progression? Might as well just give everyone, every item in the game and be done with it.
You could say that progression is in and of itself, completing vet over normal, but we all like that little reward at the end - it just sweetens the pot.
The issue here is that the vMA RNG grind is tedious, but this, IMO, is not the proper way to fix that.

vyrzeden

Other

Voted other as I really have no desire to smash my head against the wall that is learning vMA knowing that the REAL fight is apparently with the RNG. Part of the problem is that there is basically ONE trait that blows away the rest, and the other is something that could be solved with a token system of some kind.

MMOs are all about the long game for me. I've been in top tier raiding guilds way back in the day when I was still in school and could play 15-20 hours/day (or something stupid that I used to do). Now I have a job/family and no desire to spend my time gambling for what amounts to...what, a 5-10% damage increase for some people? Instead, I'd rather spend what time I have these days doing something enjoyable instead of something I know I'll hate.

VyersReaver

No

Again, suggesting drops from normal means you can not reliably complete vMA, but the ideology should be not "Get best loot from easy content", it should be "Get best loot more reliably from harder content". That's why I say no to this, and say yes to any other improvements to loot from vMA.

Turelus

Yes

VyersReaver wrote: »

Again, suggesting drops from normal means you can not reliably complete vMA, but the ideology should be not "Get best loot from easy content", it should be "Get best loot more reliably from harder content". That's why I say no to this, and say yes to any other improvements to loot from vMA.

But like... I can beat it now... and like my opinion is still the same?

VoidBiscuit

Yes

Turelus wrote: »

Would you accept the final chests in Normal Maelstrom Arena dropping Maelstrom weapons (level scaled) at a lower drop rate?

For purpose of debate let's say it's the following:
25% chance at level scaled Superior (blue) quality.

If yes, any alterations on the above?

If no, why not?

Upgrade to pink is not expensive at all. Potentially same type of weapon but with worse set/enchant or lower level.
nMA rewards are terrible, but vMA is a massive leap. nMA could never give rewards that could be upgraded to vMA standard though.

Tasear

Solariken wrote: »

We just need a token system.

^

Mordenkainen

Yes

Because the whole judgment fest of who is a good player and who is a bad player, the former obviously being the 'deserving' party here of the item, is one hell of a festering cancer tumor in the community.

Don't know about others, but last I played a game, I played it to have fun. Not to measure myself against people from the other end of the world. If I want that, I try to join the olympics.

Not like the people who succesfully beat vMA can't stroke their egos to the people who didn't. They may brandish the same weapon as you in a trial but they can't post and boast with the same achievement.

Get over it. Ultimately it'll help more groups to be succesful in trials. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Fuz

Yes

Yes.

Arkangeloski

No

I think is perfect the way it is. But i do think they should work on a ladder system for the new ppl experimenting with normal mealstrom, Example drop something like Vo in blue form, by doing so you are gearing up for the next step, now after you farmed the hell out of that u get that build going and now you can go for the weapons on vmsa. Now once you get those weapons you can start building your toon for trials and so on. But that would never happen .

Arkangeloski

No

.

FearlessOne_2014

Other

They should only drop in vMA. However the reward system should be changed. It's just not encouraging to know that you can be one of those people who've cleared the hardest content in the game 500 times and still not get rewarded.

That is more of a put off then the difficulty. The difficulty is fine. The super bad RNG loot system in there is absolutely not.
We need the carrot to be more realistically obtainable.

Qbiken

No

I feel like this subject has more to do with the bad RNG more than the actuall difficulty of Maelstrom (even though you can´t compare vet to normal in terms of difficulty). The only thing needed is a well made tokensystem.

But when it comes to the rest of the loot (not the maelstrom weapons) there´s one thing that bother´s me a lot.

Take Winterborn set as an example. It doesn´t exist any purple rings in this set. You can get a purple necklace from the 8th stage chest (since that chest can drop a necklace). If you run maelstrom on normal you can get a blue ring from the last chest. Then you can get a golden jewelpiece if you´re lucky enough to get it in the weekly rewards. So why doesn´t there exist Purple rings in the other sets (Hunt, winterborn, para bellum) in maelstrom??? (I might be wrong but I haven´t seen one yet). Another thing regarding these loots is the fact that they don´t exist in certain traits (like impenetrable for example) or certain weapons (like staffs, swords and Shields). Think they should change those loots so they are more in line with the "One Tamriel spirit"

lardvader

Yes

Only if normal is made harder and the drop rate for weapons is low. Can drop in cp 160 but maybe some restrictions to dropping the best traits.

Keep the exiting normal mode as easy/tutorial mode.

A token system could be a better option though.