Would You Accept nMSA Dropping Maelstrom Weapons? (read before rage posting)

Turelus

Would you accept the final chests in Normal Maelstrom Arena dropping Maelstrom weapons (level scaled) at a lower drop rate?

For purpose of debate let's say it's the following:
25% chance at level scaled Superior (blue) quality.

If yes, any alterations on the above?

If no, why not?

Turelus

Yes

Obviously voting yes because I agree with everything I think.

strikeback1247

No

only if they would be max champion level 140 drops. Nobody cares about quality level.

Turelus

Yes

strikeback1247 wrote: »

only if they would be max champion level 140 drops. Nobody cares about quality level.

Sadly this wouldn't really do anything to make them accessible and desired though, very few people ware going to want to use an item which has less base damage than a C160 item.

If quality level is not a good enough balancing mechanic how would you feel about lower (but not ridiculous) drops?

FlyLionel

No

No, they would have to change how it works on vet than. Make it so where you can pick a certain weapon with a random trait at the end or maybe if you are on leaderboards. If that happens you can give normal a low chance to drop a weapon in any trait, almost like how it was when it(Orsinium) came out; just an even lower chance. First time I did maelstrom was on normal, I did most of it naked with 2h and bow (pvp build) using surprise attack and gap closers and all that stuff, Ridiculous thinking about it.

Verryyy low drop chance.

DocFrost72

Yes

<--Would like to see this with both Maelstrom and Dragonstar. The weapons are important to some builds, and it's not like you are running a 25 minute vet dungeon with four people having fun for your garbage traited weapon.

Let's see how many people don't even read my full comment and assume I want things "handed" to me! I have completed vMA on 2 toons so far, a stamblade and stamplar. It is not a "make things easy for me" opinion.

The common complaints I have heard are that vMA is well designed content that helps you grow as a player. I agree wholeheartedly, but propose that the reward is in getting better as a player, not the weapons. The weapons will not make a bad DPS good, by any means. They just help a little.

Another big complaint is that only good players should get these weapons. I would give more credence to this argument were paid runs not practiced. Is it rare? Surely. Does it happen? Yes. You simply cannot assess someone's effectiveness on storm proof or even flawless titles, nor VMA weapons.

Normal 4-man dungeons and even trials will drop blue BiS items already, and I am of the opinion that this should be extended to Maelstrom weapons.

Improving a maelstrom weapon is easy, so what would be the benefit of running vet? A fair question as well. My response? An additional chance for weapons thanks to the weeklies, as well as permanent bragging rights for timed runs that make the top 100.

Normal maelstrom is far too easy to grant these weapons, and helms do not drop in regular runs for this reason. Firstly, tell me how hard vet CoH I or Fungal grotto I are for those BiS helms? Secondly, this argument comes down to opinion, entirely. I don't care if everyone can get the gear they need with relatime ease, truthfully. And to say something such as "This will make people leave the game faster" is kind of silly. Unless you are ZoS, why care about that at all, unless it is you?

"Git Gud and do vet". Please, regale me of the tales of all the wonderful sharpened weapons you got for completing vet. There are people with 1,000+ clears and no weapon of their desired type and trait. That is not git gud, that is roll the dice (one reason I am resistant to ever buying crown crates. I hate gambling).

So, the TLDR of this post is "Sure, doesn't bother me any."

bubbygink

No

No, normal Maelstrom is extremely easy. I've seen people beat it on like level 11 characters who were just doing it to level up. Giving BiS weapons for such an easy thing to do, even if it is only a 25% chance, is ridiculous.

Turelus

Yes

bubbygink wrote: »

No, normal Maelstrom is extremely easy. I've seen people beat it on like level 11 characters who were just doing it to level up. Giving BiS weapons for such an easy thing to do, even if it is only a 25% chance, is ridiculous.

But after 1T you can get a almost all other BiS this easily apart from jewellery which requires veteran difficulty.

Why should one BiS item type be different from another?

FlyLionel wrote: »

No, they would have to change how it works on vet than. Make it so where you can pick a certain weapon with a random trait at the end or maybe if you are on leaderboards. If that happens you can give normal a low chance to drop a weapon in any trait, almost like how it was when it(Orsinium) came out; just an even lower chance. First time I did maelstrom was on normal, I did most of it naked with 2h and bow (pvp build) using surprise attack and gap closers and all that stuff, Ridiculous thinking about it.

Verryyy low drop chance.

What would you consider a low drop chance, noting that by making these not 100% we've already added a second layer of RNG onto them, so it doesn't mean you'll see everyone with perfect versions within a week.

Granted if you're after the weapons farming normal may be a better option, but this is the case for a lot of sets (exception of jewellery) as it is.

kylewwefan

Yes

Obviously. I wouldn't care if helmets dropped from normal either. Is fungal even really that hard on Vet to give BiS?

Oompuh

No

I went flawless on a level 4 on nvma. Dropping in blue really doesn't change anything since tempers are easy to get.

Turelus

Yes

Oompuh wrote: »

I went flawless on a level 4 on nvma. Dropping in blue really doesn't change anything since tempers are easy to get.

What would be an acceptable level of effort for it for you to be happy with it? If you had to choose one for nVMA, as I do understand you're reasoning for being against it, just trying to get constructive thinking/debating going.

Luigi_Vampa

Other

I picked other because on one hand I don't think people should have a chance at getting a great reward in content as easy a nMA, and on the other hand, I don't really give a damn what rewards other people get. It doesn't affect me.

CavalryPK

No

id rather have some sort of currency . at which point if I have enough I can get the exact weapon with the right trait.

bubbygink

No

Oompuh wrote: »

I went flawless on a level 4 on nvma. Dropping in blue really doesn't change anything since tempers are easy to get.

Exactly. How can you give BiS weapons for something people can do on level 4? You aren't going to be beating trials with or vet dungeons with level 4s. Hell, you can't even go into vet dungeons or trials or even PvP at that level. I mean why not just give every Maelstrom Weapons when they create a new character? Might as well if you're ok with giving them out for such an easy thing.

Typically (but not always so not saying this applies to you, OP), the only people who want Maelstrom weapons to drop on normal are those who can't beat vet and don't want to take the time to learn what, thanks to power creep, has become a very easy thing to do (hell I had multiple flawless runs by like the 12th time I'd ever even come into vMA it is so easy). They'd rather just be handed the weapons for strolling through normal Maelstrom only having to light attack because it is such a joke.

Turelus

Yes

bubbygink wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

I went flawless on a level 4 on nvma. Dropping in blue really doesn't change anything since tempers are easy to get.

Exactly. How can you give BiS weapons for something people can do on level 4? You aren't going to be beating trials with or vet dungeons with level 4s. Hell, you can't even go into vet dungeons or trials or even PvP at that level. I mean why not just give every Maelstrom Weapons when they create a new character? Might as well if you're ok with giving them out for such an easy thing.

Typically (but not always so not saying this applies to you, OP), the only people who want Maelstrom weapons to drop on normal are those who can't beat vet and don't want to take the time to learn what, thanks to power creep, has become a very easy thing to do (hell I had multiple flawless runs by like the 12th time I'd ever even come into vMA it is so easy). They'd rather just be handed the weapons for strolling through normal Maelstrom only having to light attack because it is such a joke.

It wouldn't be granting a C160 staff at level 4. Just like if you do CoA at level 10 you don't get C160 BSW items.

bubbygink

No

Turelus wrote: »

It wouldn't be granting a C160 staff at level 4. Just like if you do CoA at level 10 you don't get C160 BSW items.

You're missing my point. The point is that it is so easy a level 4 can beat it. So why would you give out BiS weapons for something that easy? I'm aware it would give out a level 4 weapon, which is a hilarious to even think about and just highlights how crazy it would be to give them out for normal. There has to be some kind of challenge to get the best weapons in the game. The achievement required for the best possible weapons shouldn't be to beat something so easy that characters literally just created could beat it with ease.

DocFrost72

Yes

bubbygink wrote: »

Oompuh wrote: »

I went flawless on a level 4 on nvma. Dropping in blue really doesn't change anything since tempers are easy to get.

Exactly. How can you give BiS weapons for something people can do on level 4? You aren't going to be beating trials with or vet dungeons with level 4s . Hell, you can't even go into vet dungeons or trials or even PvP at that level. I mean why not just give every Maelstrom Weapons when they create a new character? Might as well if you're ok with giving them out for such an easy thing.

Typically (but not always so not saying this applies to you, OP), the only people who want Maelstrom weapons to drop on normal are those who can't beat vet and don't want to take the time to learn what, thanks to power creep, has become a very easy thing to do (hell I had multiple flawless runs by like the 12th time I'd ever even come into vMA it is so easy). They'd rather just be handed the weapons for strolling through normal Maelstrom only having to light attack because it is such a joke.

First bold: Then why does it matter? You won't see too many level 4 players in your trial group is especially correct.

Second bold: Theeeeere it is. The issue with that well reasoned argument is that the arena does not reward skill, but luck. It does not hand a BiS weapon to those with 100 flawless runs, but might reward it to a nub that has 1000 deaths over 3 months to clear it. I dot see how that rewards skill.

There are, in my opinion, two compromises. Give everyone a token system to cut back on RNG, which ZoS has said in the past they are resistant to, or, and this is something I'll tag you for to get your opinion, @bubbygink, the following;

Turelus' suggestions apply to normal. You have a 25% chance on the last chest to get any weapon in any trait. In vet, they return to the old system: 50% chance to get a random weapon with Precise, sharpened, or defending only.

Lore_lai

Yes - they should totally drop on normal mode too - but only for people who have previously beat it on Vet, preferably, either with flawless or a certain score.

Or, you know what - even better - implement a token system already. *shocker*

Turelus

Yes

In fairness as to bubbygink's comment I have yet to complete vMSA, however I also have friends who can beat it regularly with ease and are tired of the pain of doing it for the item.

I have long been an advocate of not locking items behind very difficult content and I wanted the same for Master Weapons from DSA. The idea is to allow players who are not the greatest a chance at items, but with more time investment than those who are good enough.

It lets players enjoy items in the game by clearing content more suited to them, this is especially friendly for players who have disabilities which stop them playing at the level required to clear the content. This wasn't as large an issue with vDSA as you could be carried by a group to some extent, however vMSA it falls entirely on the single player.

I'm not looking for a system where myself or others can run it five times and have a perfect weapon, but it would be nice for some players to have more access to the items as well as giving the players who can beat veteran an option to run it with less chance but more relaxing play but progressing their farm.

I am fine with no change on this, however I enjoy putting out controversial debates to see people think and debate changes to the game (it's been a slow Friday).

bubbygink

No

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Second bold: Theeeeere it is. The issue with that well reasoned argument is that the arena does not reward skill, but luck. It does not hand a BiS weapon to those with 100 flawless runs, but might reward it to a nub that has 1000 deaths over 3 months to clear it. I dot see how that rewards skill.

There are, in my opinion, two compromises. Give everyone a token system to cut back on RNG, which ZoS has said in the past they are resistant to, or, and this is something I'll tag you for to get your opinion, @bubbygink, the following;

First, I totally agree with what you've said here. I hate the RNG system as well and would 100% support a token system for the exact reasons you state - skill should be rewarded not luck. But the tokens should not be for normal Maelstrom, only veteran. Normal Maelstrom is just way way too easy to give any kind of meaningful reward. So it wouldn't be rewarding skill. So, the short answer to your question, I wouldn't support the 25% chance of any trait on normal. I would, however, be 100% behind a token system for vMSA because it would reward skill, time, and effort over blind luck.

pizzaow

Other

I have to admit that I would have never done vMA if I could have gotten weapons for nMA. I'm also one of those people who cleared nMA on my level 10 toon for XP while leveling up (and this was before doing vMA). I'll also admit that I'm a much better player now; not so much at more damage, but with camera control and general survivability (I'm SOO much quicker and much more disciplined with my ward now).

In normal, I'd like to see weapons drop in blue quality but not be up-gradable. Similarly, I'd love to see vet maelstrom weapons drop in gold... it would make a bad trait sting a little less if you had a chance to deconstruct it for a rosin or tempering alloy.

Danksta

No

One of the easiest instances in the game should NOT be rewarded with BiS items. You can literally one skill spam your way through it, it's a complete snore-fest. Between the guides online and the many helpful people that frequent this section of the forums there's no reason anyone can't beat vMA with a little persistence, barring some major disability. I've beaten it and have permanent nerve damage in my hands.

DannyLV702

No

Normal maelstrom is the easiest possible content in the game. This post makes asking for dragons sounds reasonable ffs

sluske

Turelus wrote: »

I have long been an advocate of not locking items behind very difficult content

I've just been playing eso for a couple of weeks and really have no personal interest in this topic, BUT, isn't that kind of logic? To get the best items you will have to clear the hardest content? And if you can not clear that content, keep trying or settle for 2:nd best?

Just my 2 cents.

Jim_Pipp

Yes

I suggest splitting the loot tables.

the 2 or 3 best traits only drop in veteran
the trash traits only drop in normal.

Everyone wins.

DocFrost72

Yes

bubbygink wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Second bold: Theeeeere it is. The issue with that well reasoned argument is that the arena does not reward skill, but luck. It does not hand a BiS weapon to those with 100 flawless runs, but might reward it to a nub that has 1000 deaths over 3 months to clear it. I dot see how that rewards skill.

There are, in my opinion, two compromises. Give everyone a token system to cut back on RNG, which ZoS has said in the past they are resistant to, or, and this is something I'll tag you for to get your opinion, @bubbygink, the following;

First, I totally agree with what you've said here. I hate the RNG system as well and would 100% support a token system for the exact reasons you state - skill should be rewarded not luck. But the tokens should not be for normal Maelstrom, only veteran. Normal Maelstrom is just way way too easy to give any kind of meaningful reward. So it wouldn't be rewarding skill. So, the short answer to your question, I wouldn't support the 25% chance of any trait on normal. I would, however, be 100% behind a token system for vMSA because it would reward skill, time, and effort over blind luck.

I agree that we need something new, and don't begrudge that we do not agree on what normal Maelstrom should be at all. After all, the world would be boring if everyone agree, no? xD

And this whole thread highlights one thing at least; currently, maelstrom does not reward skillful play, and that does need to change somehow.

DannyLV702

No

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I suggest splitting the loot tables.

the 2 or 3 best traits only drop in veteran
the trash traits only drop in normal.

Everyone wins.

I can get behind this...

redspecter23

Yes

A year ago, I would have easily said no. However this content has been out a long time. Just let it be farmed easily now. Early players have had the advantage of VMA weapons for quite some time now. There is no reason to not just open it up at some point and now is as good a time as any. Give a chance of weapons on normal and give 5 or 10 or 15 weapons out for every vet completion. Just get the BiS weapons into the hands of the players that are freaking sick of the RNG lottery.

Solariken

No

We just need a token system.

Olupajmibanan

No

Once and for all.
Difficulty of VMA is completely fine. (Guessing you want MSA weapons in normal for this reason).
The loot system is horrible and it's the ONLY thing that needs to be improved.

Skinzz

No

Stop being a bunch of bums and learn the mechanics/complete vma already jeez.