Cyrodiil Performance Test and Double AP Event

ThePonzzz

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I think people are overreacting. I don't think they will remove all CP from all campaigns after this test (unless they introduced a campaign with soft caps and dynamic ult).

This is just a test week in my opinion, maybe I am wrong, but I don't see them taking CP away. They might change the CP a bit (like @Princess_Asgari said in another thread, it really needs some adjustment)

Just because they might install a test where everyone has to wear a red hat to see if the color red is messing up the server, it doesn't mean going forward every hat will be red it just means they are trying to isolate something to see if it's the problem.

Right. They have determined that Azura's Star is better without CP, but they want to see if Trueflamme and Haderus will see the same improvement or if there is something else at play. Hopefully everyone plays like they normally would and we'll see the issue be related to something else (and not CP).

The issue as it stands though, most of us on Trueflamme and Haderus will have to change our play style to be viable without CPs. Those of us who don't run with a zerg I think are going to be an extreme disadvantage. We'll see.

Sandman929

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

This has been discussed internally at length and we are still going to double the AP from those sources during this test.

So simply saying it's wrong and fixing promptly or saying it's working as intended just isn't an option with ZOS?
Unreal.

Red_Olander

AP has no use... other than scoring for the campaign, most players get crap rewards for getting millions of AP at the end of a campaign. Only the top 60 or so players get half way good items. Purchasing Elite Boxes gives garbage items that are worthless.
PVE players get good rewards in dungeons and trials and spend an hour doing it. PVP players spend a month and get crap.
PVP needs a monster set equivalent.

flguy147ub17_ESO

kyle.wilson wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Finisherofwar wrote: »

There is already a no cp campaign. I enjoy my campaign as it is and if I wanted to play no cp I'd join the campaign set up for that specifically.

As I see it what you're saying in this post is that since u don't know how to fix the lag in cp campaigns you're just going to completely take away that experience.

I'm not ok with this.

i agree with you.
this is a very touchy subject for many of us.
i believe that eso should be rebuilt. starting first with combat and how Pve and PvP works. and then go from there.
allow us to keep the current build and play with it untill they are done.
but that is not going to happen.
instead they just cut out entire builds and then let us deal with it.
saves money and keeps jobs.

If they mess this up and the players leave then it won't save jobs.

Many players quit due to performance and infinite resources where everybody is Superman. So it may bring some players back and yes some may quit. Just change your sets out to stuff like Seducer and/or add regen to jewelry.

IcyDeadPeople

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Many players quit due to performance and infinite resources where everybody is Superman. So it may bring some players back and yes some may quit. Just change your sets out to stuff like Seducer and/or add regen to jewelry.

So why don't those who quit "due to performance and infinite resources where everybody is Superman" simply play on Azura's? Not enough people there?

flguy147ub17_ESO

I dont know much about the technical side of servers and lag but people calm down. If it proves CP has no impact on lag then they may look at getting new Servers or doing something totally different to fix the lag. But they are making a huge effort with this test. So people saying they wont partake in the PVP tests is only hurting their purpose because more people playing equals more lag and will prove CP doesnt impact performance much. And then they make look at other things like the whole server/client side or servers (stuff i dont understand). But atleast help them move the game forward to have a playebase in 2 years.

Katahdin

I think this is a great idea and a gutsy move on the part of the devs to try and figure out how to make it better.

I agree they need to do this with the live server and us players need to help give a good test if we truly care about the pvp in this game.

I have 730+ CP. If removing CP makes the servers run better and makes PvP better then I am all for it and will adjust my build.

I am definitely going to spend more time in Cyrodiil next week being a lab rat.

Ron_Burgundy_79

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

Will the CP change also affect dueling?

flguy147ub17_ESO

Etaniel wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Skulfur wrote: »

Great news, but adjusting the amount of AP/Keepflip afterwards? That means 12k per flip over the course of a week? That sounds like everyone will just flip keeps over the course of a week instead of fighting, cause flipping keeps is gonna give more AP.

Thats sad if people do that, If you truely care about the game, you will help ZOS. This is a big deal for them to take this effort to try and improve the performance in PVP. If the community doesnt help them for their selfish gains then its just really sad. This is for the longevity of the game not a short time AP boost.

Lmao, no offense but you are quite naive if you think most of the pvp community cares more aobut the game than their own personnal interest. Just look at the rampant cases of exploiting.

I dont play on PC anymore so i dont know how much exploiting is going on currently honestly. Matter of fact i just came back to the game on Xbox but i did quit before due to performance in Cyrodiil. So yes i want the performance to be much better like it was back in the day, that is what i care about. ZOS may totally fail in this test, i dont know, but i would hope the community will actually try to help them is all i am getting at. Yes i do agree with you on the fact that there are too many people caring about their personal interest. You want exactly what i want, i have read your posts before.

flguy147ub17_ESO

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Many players quit due to performance and infinite resources where everybody is Superman. So it may bring some players back and yes some may quit. Just change your sets out to stuff like Seducer and/or add regen to jewelry.

So why don't those who quit "due to performance and infinite resources where everybody is Superman" simply play on Azura's? Not enough people there?

I am not saying CP is the problem at all. I personally like a little CP but the power creep of it has become too much for my personal taste. But that is personal taste is all. I can live with CP, i just want better performance, we all do. And if this test proves CP has no impact on performance, then ZOS has that info and can look at other ways to improve it. I am guessing its a trial and error process, i am not an expert in this and guessing hardly nobody on these forums are either.

DaveMoeDee

Derra wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well so one week of not pvping because i´m not going to craft a template for that bullcrap? Nice - do i get my subscription refunded for that time period?

Edit: Do you really think anyone who has a template balanced for CP is going to continue to play? That´s moronic.

Next step after the event will be: no more CP campaigns. Better performance and no difference in CPs. Is not this what we want for PvP?

Since the pvp without cp is absolutely terrible. At that poit it stop playing the game.

I´d give everyone 600 in cyro.

Even if they ditch the decreased damage in Cyrodiil?

SFDB

Paul_DA wrote: »

Free Grand overlord for everyone !

Dreyloch

Folks have wanted to go back to a Pre 1.5 version of PvP forever now. This is why Azura was implemented. Thus far it's been the home of "pvp purists" and exceptionally gifted players when it comes to resource management. TTK is very different there. But not everyone can play or even wants to play like that.

Personally, I wouldn't mind going back to those days. But there are still glaring differences compared to today's PvP. Biggest ones off the top of my head is stamina regen while blocking, AE caps, dynamic ult regen, and battle spirit. None of this existed back then. Least not in it's current form. We also had a major boost to base stats. (a 10k hp DK used to be godlike) What I'm trying to say is, that AZ is close, but very much NOT Pre 1.5

I'll play during this test, but I think it's going to bring huge fustration to the way many of us play. We've learned to hone our hand/eye co-ordination over many many hours with our toons and gear. If it's found that CP's are indeed the cause of all the problems, what happens then? Because many of use don't enjoy, or even want to play PvE. We do it now just to get our gear for the sole purpose of killing each other in cyrodiil lol. If you decide take away CP's altogether for PvP, then what's the next step? PvE will still require it, which many of us find boring and un-fullfilling.

The lag has indeed been much better over the course of the last year. Kudos for that! I still think there needs to be some different approaches when it comes to the gear we can purchase with AP. There needs to be a different type of reward system, and there needs to be a difference in how skills work in PvE VS. PvP. Instead of doing stuff like turn off all proc crits across the board.

Oh, one last thing. Why not suspend all the servers except AZ? Stop the leader boards and really see how much we can punish a server?

glavius

Derra wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Shieldbreaker was added into the game after CP got introduced and before any nonCP campaign.
This means shieldbreaker was balanced for a game with CP.

You´re logic is flawed on this one @Talcyndl

You are saying it doesn't have the intended effect in the CP campaign. Regardless of when it was added, the point remains...CP breaks balance.

Where am i saying it does not have the intended effect?

Sorcs not making adjustments to shieldbreaker on CP campaigns die to it - period.

It´s meant to give you an advantage over shielded players (which it does on cp campaigns) not outright give you a free win over them because not using their class defense is a death sentence and using their class defense is a deathsentence aswell (that´s what happens on azuras).

Not only is your logic not sound - you´re also trying to put words in my mouth. Hmmmmmm.

Don't worry the 3 months I played sorc on Azuras I didn't run into a single guy using shieldbreaker.

glavius

Aerius_Sygale wrote: »

Ha, this will mess up Vampires so bad, no Elemental Defender. :P

Not really. Elemental defender and elemental expert kinda cancel eachother out.....

Derra

glavius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Shieldbreaker was added into the game after CP got introduced and before any nonCP campaign.
This means shieldbreaker was balanced for a game with CP.

You´re logic is flawed on this one @Talcyndl

You are saying it doesn't have the intended effect in the CP campaign. Regardless of when it was added, the point remains...CP breaks balance.

Where am i saying it does not have the intended effect?

Sorcs not making adjustments to shieldbreaker on CP campaigns die to it - period.

It´s meant to give you an advantage over shielded players (which it does on cp campaigns) not outright give you a free win over them because not using their class defense is a death sentence and using their class defense is a deathsentence aswell (that´s what happens on azuras).

Not only is your logic not sound - you´re also trying to put words in my mouth. Hmmmmmm.

Don't worry the 3 months I played sorc on Azuras I didn't run into a single guy using shieldbreaker.

It´s much more prevalent now and gaining popularity as you can now run shieldbreaker only on your bowbar
I meet about 3 to 4 ppl shieldbreakering me on trueflame EU per day.

technohic

glavius wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Shieldbreaker was added into the game after CP got introduced and before any nonCP campaign.
This means shieldbreaker was balanced for a game with CP.

You´re logic is flawed on this one @Talcyndl

You are saying it doesn't have the intended effect in the CP campaign. Regardless of when it was added, the point remains...CP breaks balance.

Where am i saying it does not have the intended effect?

Sorcs not making adjustments to shieldbreaker on CP campaigns die to it - period.

It´s meant to give you an advantage over shielded players (which it does on cp campaigns) not outright give you a free win over them because not using their class defense is a death sentence and using their class defense is a deathsentence aswell (that´s what happens on azuras).

Not only is your logic not sound - you´re also trying to put words in my mouth. Hmmmmmm.

Don't worry the 3 months I played sorc on Azuras I didn't run into a single guy using shieldbreaker.

Don't know about most but I tend to run a more sustain set with a more damage set then a monster piece or 2. Shield breaker just seems too situational to me when my stats are going to be coming largely from my gear. If I start running into a lot of shield stackers in a sitting; I might consider suiting it up just like I might run magelight if I am seeing a lot of gankers out.

Remag_Div

Derra wrote: »

Well so one week of not pvping because i´m not going to craft a template for that bullcrap? Nice - do i get my subscription refunded for that time period?

Edit: Do you really think anyone who has a template balanced for CP is going to continue to play? That´s moronic.

You sound like the biggest entitled try-hard baby I have ever seen.

This test is to make the game and the mode you apparently love so much a better experience for everyone. How about you try to help the game get better and stop worrying about yourself for once.

It's only one freaking week and all you're worried about is having to min/max a non-CP build and complaining about doing so. Get over yourself.

Mojomonkeyman

Remag_Div wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well so one week of not pvping because i´m not going to craft a template for that bullcrap? Nice - do i get my subscription refunded for that time period?

Edit: Do you really think anyone who has a template balanced for CP is going to continue to play? That´s moronic.

You sound like the biggest entitled try-hard baby I have ever seen.

This test is to make the game and the mode you apparently love so much a better experience for everyone. How about you try to help the game get better and stop worrying about yourself for once.

It's only one freaking week and all you're worried about is having to min/max a non-CP build and complaining about doing so. Get over yourself.

Or maybe some people have become pretty accustomed to the way ZOS has been approaching things over the course of the past three years and how little they care about implementing appropriate follow up finetuning in due time to clean up the mess their experiments cause.

I mean they just (re)introduced about 10 major exploits and bugs with the last patch, haven`t even bothered to fix or communicate about most of them. The newly introducted (gamebreaking) streak bug i.e. was perfectly documented and reported by the community on day one when patch dropped, ZOS still not even bothering to reply to the various threads.

They will cause a huge mess, gather flawed data, implement equally flawed changes and call it a day to refocus on cash influx through finding nifty new tiers for their dlcs to "justify" charging expansion price, while devoting the remaining company ressources to design pretty dresses and furniture for digital home depot junkies and pixel fashion victims.

Takllin

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Remag_Div wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well so one week of not pvping because i´m not going to craft a template for that bullcrap? Nice - do i get my subscription refunded for that time period?

Edit: Do you really think anyone who has a template balanced for CP is going to continue to play? That´s moronic.

You sound like the biggest entitled try-hard baby I have ever seen.

This test is to make the game and the mode you apparently love so much a better experience for everyone. How about you try to help the game get better and stop worrying about yourself for once.

It's only one freaking week and all you're worried about is having to min/max a non-CP build and complaining about doing so. Get over yourself.

Or maybe some people have become pretty accustomed to the way ZOS has been approaching things over the course of the past three years and how little they care about implementing appropriate follow up finetuning in due time to clean up the mess their experiments cause.

I mean they just (re)introduced about 10 major exploits and bugs with the last patch, haven`t even bothered to fix or communicate about most of them. The newly introducted (gamebreaking) streak bug i.e. was perfectly documented and reported by the community on day one when patch dropped, ZOS still not even bothering to reply to the various threads.

They will cause a huge mess, gather flawed data, implement equally flawed changes and call it a day to refocus on cash influx through finding nifty new tiers for their dlcs to "justify" charging expansion price, while devoting the remaining company ressources to design pretty dresses and furniture for digital home depot junkies and pixel fashion victims.

Put it perfectly there.

Pallio

So a week of a bunch of non pvp noobs running around for a week, free AP to the pvp vets. Sounds fun.

Then can we get back to focusing on the important aspects of the game, PvE, maybe fix a few bugs etc.

KingMagaw

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

As you saw in Matt’s 2017 roadmap, we are making Cyrodiil performance evaluation and fixing a priority this year.

- This should of been a priority since launch with additional reinforcement when your customers flood forum with feedback/screenshots/videos/results. My opinion as a paying customer.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Over the last year, we’ve made some good strides towards refining server performance across all campaigns, and we will continue down that path.

So yous refined but made no actual impact to server performance. Illogical. I don't know exactly what your trying to imply except stating work was done with no tangible results or performance gain to the customer. Issues in PvP campaigns has increased since launch.
Only strides made was Z0$ shutting down x2 PvP servers, leaving Azura and Truelag that were pop-locked most prime times i was on, recently having 40/60+ queues for a PvP campaign. Makes no sense, unless the now free Spell Breaker and Ebony Blade resources can be redirected to the campaigns remaining, but clearly that didn't happen. So customers lose out again in this decision.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

When looking into Cyrodiil issues, we definitely see (both in-game and through monitoring) situations where client and server performance degrade significantly when under high load.

This is an age old accepted fact of Electronics. More load applied just increases strain on any electronic component, resulting in more heat, less stability and less performance/efficiency or resulting in crash (Not so uncommon on ESO, just had 3 in 2 hours). To state something like that is either insulting my intelligence or yours, no other way.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The small incremental changes we’ve made over the last year have helped, but they alone are not enough. So, we’re going to change our strategy a bit – which is the point of this post.

So after dedicating minimal time and producing no tangible performance gains for the customer, somehow you just realized this was not a 'quick/cheap/easy' fix? Nice to hear on this issue but shows solid transparency on the way you handle, or mishandle, issues with ESO.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

we strongly suspect what has been theorized for a long time: Champion Rank passives and abilities are causing too much server load

This was blatantly stated to yous on forums, with Zo$ reps tagged and is simply quite logical. Champion points spent add more calculations resulting with some being more complex than without said Champion points. That is simple logic. For you to state 'theorized' against this simple logic means your incorrect here also.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

impossible to simulate PvP load on our internal test servers (or on PTS), we will do this on all live servers on the dates of February 27 – March 6. This is not something we take lightly, and it is important that we evaluate performance when the server is under real-world load situations.

You have 'Azura Star NO CP Campaign' to evaluate your imposed testing conditions, under any peak time over the last 3 weeks, where all sides are pop-locked resulting in 60+ queues. Making other campaigns EXACTLY like this is plainly stupid. You have more than enough data from Azura Star peak times to evaluate. This should be your benchmark with analyzing Truelag which is poplocked most times i look in peak times.
What i feel your doing here is making it look like something is being progressed on by imposing such a 'test', when you have more than enough data to analyze.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

evaluate performance when the server is under real-world load situations.

So is 'Azura Star NO CP' server not under real-world load situations?. Please define if one of the mods doesn't sweep this away )

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Our first test will be set up as follows:

• For a period of one week, all Champion Points will be disabled on all Campaigns on all platforms and megaservers

Just like Azura Star.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

[*] During this time, AP gains in all Campaigns will be doubled, both to compensate for lack of CP and also to incentivize players to PvP so we can record as much data as possible

So when i queued tonight, for Azura Star and was 41 in the queue, i need additional incentive to join PvP?. Illogical. Server is at its max acceptance for my alliance already thus fulfilling your testing conditions.

You have boosted resource flag and small keep flipping with Homestead (Where 2 parties only take and retake a certain flag just for the AP) and now your going to boost this even more, in some unrealistic hopes of trying to promote people to fight, use abilities, big battles, server strain. More will be flipping in your testing conditions than now which acts against yourselves. Miss-informed or out of touch decision.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

reading your constructive posts about server performance during the time of the test.

Z0$ has been ignoring these posts players squander time to make since launch. Your doing nothing new stating you will be reading the posts, nothing stated on acting on said information.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The results of this test will determine the next course of action for refining Cyrodiil server performance. Thank you for your perseverance and patience – we thoroughly appreciate your time, efforts, and feedback!

Refining is definitely incorrect for you to state. To refine, is to continually improve something where you are working on fine tuning/perfecting the process. Issues with PvP has increased since launch. Your not refining this process, your actually working on turning around a declining performance and increasing it to an acceptable state.

fritzOSU03

Personally, I don't want to see CP removed entirely from PvP but if it's done we're all going to be on an even field.

Also, is there any place where the calculations being done per player in Cyrodiil are available? As a programmer, I know that a fresh perspective on an algorithm can sometimes go a long, long way.

QuebraRegra

wait, let me get this straight.... NO CP in campaigns and double AP?

Holy !@#^!@, this is the CYRODIIL I've long been waiting for. Well done

glavius

Malveria wrote: »

How are min-max PVPers meant to afford the sets they need to transition from CP builds to non-CP builds? Especially if they've had to run themselves broke for the current min-maxed builds they have? Legendary gear isn't cheap, some of the set pieces aren't cheap, and some people don't have the time to grind up a set they're only gonna use for 1 week.

Sorry if this has been mentioned but I don't have the time to trawl through 9 pages of what may or may not actually be constructive replies or trolling.

Whilst I commend the dev team for trying to find a problem with the system - although I must mention here that I have always been against the CP system from the onset - there are a lot of different factors in lag that I have seen. One of them being the way organised groups work and move through a much larger, disorganised zerg. Coordinated ulti dumps and healing spam has a lot to do with frame rate drop and latency.

Some of, or parts of, these organised groups probably won't be motivated to play on a non CP week due to the fact that they can't afford a min-maxed build. Especially if that set is only relevant for one week.

(inb4 people say 'well don't run a min-maxed build', you've missed the point of this post.)

For 99% of gear options, the only stuff you need gold is weapons and glyphs. And I say this even as a min/maxer myself. Sure sometimes I gold out my other gear, but the difference is TINY. (5 more weapon dmg on a set bonus purple vs. gold)

Deedleqwerty

Zohr wrote: »

Great step towards improving Cyro performance. I can handle 1 week of no CP if it means you get the data you need.

Dude, you're not getting the idea of what "test" means. If that data determines that CP is a major factor in the lag - and blue screens, and infinite loading screens, among other issues - then the no CP in Cyrodiil is likely to become permanent. Why else do the test?

For me, I've been looking for time to play Horizon Dawn, which drops on Feb. 28.

Looks like I just got a week.

~Deedleqwerty

Hearts_Wake

How about, Y'all stop lying. Just tell us you're going to take CP out and tell us what you're replacing it with. Also this wouldn't be an issue think y'all think it is if y'all would actually use the money, that we so willing pay you, to upgrade the servers. I could give a blank about cp or no cp but don't front about stuff you know you're already gonna change anyways. And I know why y'all are fronting. You're gonna make the change and it's gonna be the biggest player cut in the games history and y'all don't wanna do that before morrowind comes out, which is understandable. Long run. Gotta look at the dollar signs right.

Sincerely, just an observation

OtarTheMad

ThePonzzz wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I think people are overreacting. I don't think they will remove all CP from all campaigns after this test (unless they introduced a campaign with soft caps and dynamic ult).

This is just a test week in my opinion, maybe I am wrong, but I don't see them taking CP away. They might change the CP a bit (like @Princess_Asgari said in another thread, it really needs some adjustment)

Just because they might install a test where everyone has to wear a red hat to see if the color red is messing up the server, it doesn't mean going forward every hat will be red it just means they are trying to isolate something to see if it's the problem.

Right. They have determined that Azura's Star is better without CP, but they want to see if Trueflamme and Haderus will see the same improvement or if there is something else at play. Hopefully everyone plays like they normally would and we'll see the issue be related to something else (and not CP).

The issue as it stands though, most of us on Trueflamme and Haderus will have to change our play style to be viable without CPs. Those of us who don't run with a zerg I think are going to be an extreme disadvantage. We'll see.

Yeah let's hope they do. Like I said in another thread, I play on all campaigns and don't change my gear much between them. I am usually magicka and I switch from the typical blue food to Witchmother's Potent Brew for Azura's, works really well.

I am thinking that even if CP is the problem they will try to minimize the impact of the calculations made somehow, without taking away CP's from those campaigns permanently.

Ackwalan

Maybe ZOS should turn off CP in the CP campaigns, and turn on CP in the no CP campaigns.

heystreethawk

No, I don't think they have enough data from just Azura's Star. Where do you think the majority of long time players play? The majority of organized groups who have been playing together for a spell and who do things like, I don't know, synchronized proxies and ulti drops? Rotated destros and remembrance? Do you think people with lower cp play the same way as people at cp cap? How many people on Azura's are running in groups of 16+?

If you remove cp from Trueflame, and you notice a significant server side difference, you can start to rule out "stuff that Trueflame players do" as boogeymen for the lag. You can say gasp, egads, perhaps it 'twas not the healing springs and the Magic Number Sixteen after all.

You cannot do the same if you look at Azura's Star. You have too many other variables in the mix.