Cyrodiil Performance Test and Double AP Event

Laggus

So you already have a non CP campaign..so whats to test on the other servers that's different? I do wish you would be truthful about whatever it is really is you are up to. If you are getting rid of CP just spit it out already and fess up.

oibam

Finally they do realise that the current CP System is crap. Better rework.

ishilb14_ESO

"As someone who pvps a lot and also has a ton of CP, I must say, whatever is good for the game man."

-Methuselah

Eyesinthedrk

Shouldn't the reality of how many campaigns you've had to delete before you got people into a non cp campaign, tell you how much people don't want to be in a non cp campaigns?

Active Campaigns
Azura's Star, Trueflame, Chillrend, Haderus, Axe of Belharza, Blackwater Blade
Skeleton Key, Skull of Corruption, Thornblade
Removed Campaigns
Daedric Crescent, Eleidon's Ward, Gray Cowl of Nocturnal, Mace of the Crusader, Masque of Clavicus Vile, Moon Cursed Blade, Orichalc Cuirass, Sanguine Rose, Savior's Hide, Skull of Corruption, Spear of the Hunter, Staff of Magnus, Stendarr's Hammer, St. Felms' Cleaver (beta only)
Sword of the Crusader (PTS only)
Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, Chrysamere, Dawnbreaker, Goldbrand, Hopesfire, Scourge, Skull Crusher, Volendrung, Wabbajack (90 day duration)
Celarus (14 day duration)
Bow of Shadows (Veteran only, 5 day duration)
Morihaus (Non-Veteran alternate, 48 hour duration)
Hestra, Versidue-Shaie, Juilek, Rislav, Tavia (Non-Veteran, console only)
Moon-Cursed Blade (7 day Resources, console only)
Ebony Blade, Spell Breaker (PC EU, 30 day duration)

stuartx13

it was just as bad if not worse .CP is not the problem it is lot of ability spamming.

kyle.wilson

Takllin wrote: »

VycDarkshadow wrote: »

I love the hypocrisy of the playerbase sometimes.

"Fix PvP Lag!" (Zenimax discovers procs critting adds server lag, and fixes it) "Don't change things in PvP!"
"Fix PvP Lag!" (Zenimax tries a temporary, week-long idea) "Don't change things in PvP!"

I seriously think you people whine just for the sake of whining.

They, and no one here, ever said that proc sets critting added to server lag. What even?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

More players means more server calculations; that is 100% correct. However the key variable in all these scenarios is how much information is being calculated on a character by character basis depending on abilities being used, passives, armor sets, etc. This is why population is not as big a factor compared to what's being calculated on a character by character basis within that population. Let's take an example of a typical armor setup now a days.

A player wearing Viper, Velidreth, and Red Mountain doing a single heavy attack costs the server 3 times as much as a player doing Heavy attack without those sets because of calculating whether to proc those 3 sets or not. Even when a proc is on cooldown, the server needs to check per attack if the cooldown is done yet, which means every attack it checks whether it can fire or not based on either percentage, cooldown, or other situations. Factor in Champion Point passives, class passives, weapon passives and whatever temporary passive bonuses from potions, and you add to those calculations per attack/being attacked. In campaigns like Blackwater Blade and Azura, there are simply less things to calculate even when they have higher population than Trueflame.

This is what @ZOS_BrianWheeler said on Jan 21 about crit sets. I guess since the crit nerf did nothing, they are guessing again.

kyle.wilson

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Shouldn't the reality of how many campaigns you've had to delete before you got people into a non cp campaign, tell you how much people don't want to be in a non cp campaigns?

Active Campaigns
Azura's Star, Trueflame, Chillrend, Haderus, Axe of Belharza, Blackwater Blade
Skeleton Key, Skull of Corruption, Thornblade
Removed Campaigns
Daedric Crescent, Eleidon's Ward, Gray Cowl of Nocturnal, Mace of the Crusader, Masque of Clavicus Vile, Moon Cursed Blade, Orichalc Cuirass, Sanguine Rose, Savior's Hide, Skull of Corruption, Spear of the Hunter, Staff of Magnus, Stendarr's Hammer, St. Felms' Cleaver (beta only)
Sword of the Crusader (PTS only)
Auriel's Bow, Bloodthorn, Chrysamere, Dawnbreaker, Goldbrand, Hopesfire, Scourge, Skull Crusher, Volendrung, Wabbajack (90 day duration)
Celarus (14 day duration)
Bow of Shadows (Veteran only, 5 day duration)
Morihaus (Non-Veteran alternate, 48 hour duration)
Hestra, Versidue-Shaie, Juilek, Rislav, Tavia (Non-Veteran, console only)
Moon-Cursed Blade (7 day Resources, console only)
Ebony Blade, Spell Breaker (PC EU, 30 day duration)

PC/NA active servers are just
PVP campaigns: Trueflame, Haderus
Baby Campaign: Azura Star, Blackwater Blade.

Tarrocan

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Derra so cp facilitating spamming healing springs for 10 minutes isn't cp contributing to lag if the healing springs spam contributes to lag?

It sounds like your sorc build is refined to take advantage of the stat inflation that cp gives us. No wonder you're so against it! Make a few slight adjustments to trade some of that crit for regen and you'll function fine. It won't be min maxed, but very few people will be during this test. Imagine the "average player" pug with one or two item sets and not much gold. He won't be changing anything. You're resisting this test to preserve your own gold and time and build, but this is about the future of the game, not you. We differ on ideology here.

The whole game is balanced around CP.
Shieldbreaker and poisons being the prime example (and especially shieldbreaker is back with a vengeance).

My builds are balanced for CP because sets and mechanics are balanced for CP.

I´m simply against the test because the only reliable testoutcome would be: "Damn the server lags like a piece of ... without CP aswell. Back to the drawingboard."

They simply will not be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or noCP if there is less lag - because they can´t do it on azura currently.

A test where only one of two results can give you a meaningful answer (and that being the answer you DON`T want) is a bad test.

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Overall, this is a GREAT step forward for pvp, and any serious pvper should welcome this week and play as much pvp as possible during the test. I certainly will.

^Exactly this!

Who cares if your build sucks without CP and you die more often. Everyone else will be running out of stamina and dying right along with you.

This is a one time opportunity to help these folks figure out some solutions for lag and latency issues. I hope everyone plays as much as possible during the test.

But how will they be able to tell if it´s CP or behavior of people reducing the lag (if the lag gets reduced) when people simply can´t play the same way they can with CP?

They already can´t tell that for azura.

That means the only meaningful outcome would be the servers still lagging and they´d have to start over again?

You cant even figure how to play without CP, but are suddenly expert on how to perform tests and what ZoS wants/does.

How do you determine that i can´t figure out how to play without CP? That´s pretty rude.

I specifically stated i don´t want to create a new setup to play without CP.

I dont need to Play ESO this Week, because ,i don't need to switch my sets and playstyle too ,maybe you make the Same;) it's only for 1 Week.

Rohamad_Ali

If this works can we have the Cyrodiil Deer and Torchbugs back ?

Cinbri

Whatever people think about CP this test is good sign - it prooving that ZOS realy want to #make Morrowind great again!
And for this purpose I don't mind if live server would transform for guinea pig for such tests before expansion.
Consider to do more different tests like reduce Battle Spirit to 35%, at least on Azura to see how gameplay and TTK would change, or even more improved AoE caps or semi-dynamic ult gain, etc... @ZOS_BrianWheeler

JD2013

I say that this is a good step forward. Cyrodiil performance is something that should have been a priority ages ago, and whilst you guys certainly have been trying to fix it for a long time, nothing really seems to stick.

Performance in Azura is a lot better than other campaigns of course, thanks to less data for the servers to calculate, however balling up and ability spam is still a problem. Because a big problem is that you can't fully predict how players are going to react with one another.

It's good that it's going to be a priority but don't just make a band aid fix for it all. Look deeply into everything including ability spamming and maybe look at adding new objectives to Cyrodiil to encourage smaller groups (town capture didn't really do anything) and give more dynamic play in Cyrodiil.

I hope you guys get the data you need!

ZunaRoath

Can't wait for this, and I'll be helping test whatever you need to fix the lag in Cyrodiil. Good job Zeni, trying to fix this stuff in the game, this is a step forward

Iyas

- Can you Test the removal of all bomb grps? That would be a nice Start.
- Or grp Size cap of 4 ppl
- Removal of Rapid maneuver
- Removal of healing springs

That would be nice. Because ppl that actually play on a non CP Server know that its laggy as *** on the weekend.

Turelus

It's sad to see ZOS planning a mass test and people who demand change and love for PvP stating they won't partake before for one week they won't have CP.

As others have said if you care about PvP then be in there as much as you can doing everything you can.

LegendaryChef

I can safely say that even weekends on Azura's (PC EU) ends up a laggy mess for some of the evening so I'm sceptical to believe that it all down to the CP system causing the lag.

Nice to see that Zenimax are actually taking a step in the right direction to fix the performance and even if it's not the right solution it's a start.

Alcast

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

why do i smell a Perminant NON CP in ALL campaigns coming up ?

I hope they do that, because people will have to actually l2pvp again hehe

LegendaryChef

Alcast wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

why do i smell a Perminant NON CP in ALL campaigns coming up ?

I hope they do that, because people will have to actually l2pvp again hehe

That's a bit hypocritical considering you have been enjoying life to the full with all one shot builds under the sun which most likely would not have worked anywhere near as well without the CP system you speak of.

coplannb16_ESO

meh, can't play much in that time (going diving vom 02. March to 09. March).

leepalmer95

I don't think it's cp causing all the problems, it's all the flashy effects, proc sets, ult's, mass aoe spam.

On many platforms non cp is dead and on the ones i see with asura active it still seems to lag when it actually hits prime time.

I'll try it i guess but i'll only give it a small go i can't be bothered reworking my characters for non cp.


On another note how do i manage a mag dk build in non cp? I already give up 7x armor pieces to sustain in cp campaign ans my damage really can't take any more hits to it otherwise i may as well not even bother.

Should i just play my stam sorc? Because they are so balanced in non cp with there stupid resource sustain.

Derra

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Dear Brian,

the no cp campaigns have clear downsides balance wise. Such a test has to be prepared with balance changes going hand in hand. Don`t treat us like guinea pigs for tests which are not thought out to the end.

I personally experience the no cp campaign as the most imbalanced mess in eso. And I`m someone who was as much against the introduction of CP as it can get. But the game is balanced around them now for a while.

Proc sets are totally out of control in no cp, poisons, siege, and much more stuff as well - all those have increasing effects on solo play, which is already difficult in cp campaigns.

Skillful and fun gameplay? Not in Azurah. I`m as opposed to this test in its current form as it can get.

Regards

^ This

Derra

Tarrocan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

@Derra so cp facilitating spamming healing springs for 10 minutes isn't cp contributing to lag if the healing springs spam contributes to lag?

It sounds like your sorc build is refined to take advantage of the stat inflation that cp gives us. No wonder you're so against it! Make a few slight adjustments to trade some of that crit for regen and you'll function fine. It won't be min maxed, but very few people will be during this test. Imagine the "average player" pug with one or two item sets and not much gold. He won't be changing anything. You're resisting this test to preserve your own gold and time and build, but this is about the future of the game, not you. We differ on ideology here.

The whole game is balanced around CP.
Shieldbreaker and poisons being the prime example (and especially shieldbreaker is back with a vengeance).

My builds are balanced for CP because sets and mechanics are balanced for CP.

I´m simply against the test because the only reliable testoutcome would be: "Damn the server lags like a piece of ... without CP aswell. Back to the drawingboard."

They simply will not be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or noCP if there is less lag - because they can´t do it on azura currently.

A test where only one of two results can give you a meaningful answer (and that being the answer you DON`T want) is a bad test.

Derra wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Overall, this is a GREAT step forward for pvp, and any serious pvper should welcome this week and play as much pvp as possible during the test. I certainly will.

^Exactly this!

Who cares if your build sucks without CP and you die more often. Everyone else will be running out of stamina and dying right along with you.

This is a one time opportunity to help these folks figure out some solutions for lag and latency issues. I hope everyone plays as much as possible during the test.

But how will they be able to tell if it´s CP or behavior of people reducing the lag (if the lag gets reduced) when people simply can´t play the same way they can with CP?

They already can´t tell that for azura.

That means the only meaningful outcome would be the servers still lagging and they´d have to start over again?

You cant even figure how to play without CP, but are suddenly expert on how to perform tests and what ZoS wants/does.

How do you determine that i can´t figure out how to play without CP? That´s pretty rude.

I specifically stated i don´t want to create a new setup to play without CP.

I dont need to Play ESO this Week, because ,i don't need to switch my sets and playstyle too ,maybe you make the Same;) it's only for 1 Week.

I have no issue not playing for a week tbh.
I´m just concerned that they will draw wrong conclusions on the results of this test because essentially people will not be able to play normally without CP.

I play a sorc. I´ve witnessed quite a few half baked balance changes. This combined with how infrequently balance changes in general happen gives me a bad feeling in my tummy.

Torbschka

Derra wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also what kind of nonscientific approach for the topic is that. You simply won´t get any worthwhile results @ZOS_BrianWheeler because people can not play the same way with CP compared to playing without.

They simply can´t use their skills in the same way.

Actually, it is very scientific. They observed a phenomenon and they are testing it throughout multiple different servers. Assuming that Azura's Star is the control (as it always was a non-cp campaign), they get to see how Haderus and True Flame is affected by the 1 week change, and then compare it to Azura's Star.

Also, I can assure the console that they won't have to deal with this test.

How is changing two variables at once scientific.

They are currently not able to tell if player behavior or noCP cause the difference for azura.
Taking away CP for all campaigns will inevitably change playerbehavior.

So if lag gets better during that time they still won´t be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or CP causing the lag.

In fact the only meaningful result would be the campaigns still lagging @Gan Xing

Holy crap, I really never write such things, but this nonsense..

Im.currently writing a doctor thesis and if they change 1 variable it is scientific. All you do is assuming that there are 2, but there arent. Changing the CP is 1 change, the less skill spam is a result of that, non a variable.

Furthermore there will still be 1 min big zerg spam fights, if theres better performance u even have the answer. People could even play with more regen - so no change in playstyle. Variables are controllable and playstyle ist none holy ***.

So stop this *** just cuz ur build wont work that 1 week and your "game without CP is no fünf" term. Maxybe it isnt for you, but maybe it is for others, u thought about that ? Lawl PLZ stop that.

Riga_Mortis

It will definately make for an interesting week of PvP, and even more intriguing end result of this little experiment.
Cant wait to see where all this leads.

Derra

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also what kind of nonscientific approach for the topic is that. You simply won´t get any worthwhile results @ZOS_BrianWheeler because people can not play the same way with CP compared to playing without.

They simply can´t use their skills in the same way.

Actually, it is very scientific. They observed a phenomenon and they are testing it throughout multiple different servers. Assuming that Azura's Star is the control (as it always was a non-cp campaign), they get to see how Haderus and True Flame is affected by the 1 week change, and then compare it to Azura's Star.

Also, I can assure the console that they won't have to deal with this test.

How is changing two variables at once scientific.

They are currently not able to tell if player behavior or noCP cause the difference for azura.
Taking away CP for all campaigns will inevitably change playerbehavior.

So if lag gets better during that time they still won´t be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or CP causing the lag.

In fact the only meaningful result would be the campaigns still lagging @Gan Xing

Holy crap, I really never write such things, but this nonsense..

Im.currently writing a doctor thesis and if they change 1 variable it is scientific. All you do is assuming that there are 2, but there arent. Changing the CP is 1 change, the less skill spam is a result of that, non a variable.

Furthermore there will still be 1 min big zerg spam fights, if theres better performance u even have the answer. People could even play with more regen - so no change in playstyle. Variables are controllable and playstyle ist none holy ***.

So stop this *** just cuz ur build wont work that 1 week and your "game without CP is no fünf" term. Maxybe it isnt for you, but maybe it is for others, u thought about that ? Lawl PLZ stop that.

Ofc player behavior is a variable in this case (as it changes with no CP because players will be unable to play the same way they would if there were cp).
Their problem is that one variable is dependant on the other in their system.

If they can not distinguish between:
a) less lag because of different player behavior
b) less lag because of no cp calculations

Their only solution is to permanently disable CP (which would be horribly in my personal opinion as i absolutely dislike nonCP pvp). Or change CP calculations and hope that fixes lag (with the real risk of player behavior being the deciding factor for lag and wasting work on a change with no effect - this would not be a risk if it wasn´t a variable - but it is).

To draw relevant conclusions they´d have to find a way for people to play the same way they do currently (ie same costs and dmg/reductions) without cp enabled. That would yield results - because it would control the player behavior as a variable - as players would not have to alter their behavior.

I don´t have high hopes for your doctor thesis - unless it´s in gender studies or theology but than why bring it up as it´s obviously irrelevant.

Torbschka

Derra wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also what kind of nonscientific approach for the topic is that. You simply won´t get any worthwhile results @ZOS_BrianWheeler because people can not play the same way with CP compared to playing without.

They simply can´t use their skills in the same way.

Actually, it is very scientific. They observed a phenomenon and they are testing it throughout multiple different servers. Assuming that Azura's Star is the control (as it always was a non-cp campaign), they get to see how Haderus and True Flame is affected by the 1 week change, and then compare it to Azura's Star.

Also, I can assure the console that they won't have to deal with this test.

How is changing two variables at once scientific.

They are currently not able to tell if player behavior or noCP cause the difference for azura.
Taking away CP for all campaigns will inevitably change playerbehavior.

So if lag gets better during that time they still won´t be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or CP causing the lag.

In fact the only meaningful result would be the campaigns still lagging @Gan Xing

Holy crap, I really never write such things, but this nonsense..

Im.currently writing a doctor thesis and if they change 1 variable it is scientific. All you do is assuming that there are 2, but there arent. Changing the CP is 1 change, the less skill spam is a result of that, non a variable.

Furthermore there will still be 1 min big zerg spam fights, if theres better performance u even have the answer. People could even play with more regen - so no change in playstyle. Variables are controllable and playstyle ist none holy ***.

So stop this *** just cuz ur build wont work that 1 week and your "game without CP is no fünf" term. Maxybe it isnt for you, but maybe it is for others, u thought about that ? Lawl PLZ stop that.

Ofc player behavior is a variable in this case (as it changes with no CP because players will be unable to play the same way they would if there were cp).
Their problem is that one variable is dependant on the other in their system.

If they can not distinguish between:
a) less lag because of different player behavior
b) less lag because of no cp calculations

Their only solution is to permanently disable CP. Or change CP calculations and hope that fixes lag (with the real risk of player behavior being the deciding factor for lag and wasting work on a change with no effect - thiswould not be a risk if it wasn´t a variable - but it is).

To draw relevant conclusions they´d have to find a way for people to play the same way they do currently (ie same costs and dmg/reductions) without cp enabled. That would yield results.

I don´t have high hopes for your doctor thesis - unless it´s in gender studies but than why bring it up as it´s obviously irrelevant.

Of course its not, u arent a dumb guy derra , come on.

How u wanna controller how I am playing? Ur asdumption is -> less sustain - less spam. Fine. What if -> less sustain -> stack more regen -> same spam.

Variables are on ur side, u can controll them. U just cant controll how much the players will spam or not, u can try to put them into one field, but there are (eapecially in this game) always ways to compensate that.

Data like CP are variables, u just put them off or on. This is a variable. How u wanna put game style off or on? Okay got me, habe 10h maintenance

Takllin

kyle.wilson wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

VycDarkshadow wrote: »

I love the hypocrisy of the playerbase sometimes.

"Fix PvP Lag!" (Zenimax discovers procs critting adds server lag, and fixes it) "Don't change things in PvP!"
"Fix PvP Lag!" (Zenimax tries a temporary, week-long idea) "Don't change things in PvP!"

I seriously think you people whine just for the sake of whining.

They, and no one here, ever said that proc sets critting added to server lag. What even?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

More players means more server calculations; that is 100% correct. However the key variable in all these scenarios is how much information is being calculated on a character by character basis depending on abilities being used, passives, armor sets, etc. This is why population is not as big a factor compared to what's being calculated on a character by character basis within that population. Let's take an example of a typical armor setup now a days.

A player wearing Viper, Velidreth, and Red Mountain doing a single heavy attack costs the server 3 times as much as a player doing Heavy attack without those sets because of calculating whether to proc those 3 sets or not. Even when a proc is on cooldown, the server needs to check per attack if the cooldown is done yet, which means every attack it checks whether it can fire or not based on either percentage, cooldown, or other situations. Factor in Champion Point passives, class passives, weapon passives and whatever temporary passive bonuses from potions, and you add to those calculations per attack/being attacked. In campaigns like Blackwater Blade and Azura, there are simply less things to calculate even when they have higher population than Trueflame.

This is what @ZOS_BrianWheeler said on Jan 21 about crit sets. I guess since the crit nerf did nothing, they are guessing again.

That post details the difference between a player wearing PROC sets, and one without. It has nothing to do with whether or not they crit.

Derra

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also what kind of nonscientific approach for the topic is that. You simply won´t get any worthwhile results @ZOS_BrianWheeler because people can not play the same way with CP compared to playing without.

They simply can´t use their skills in the same way.

Actually, it is very scientific. They observed a phenomenon and they are testing it throughout multiple different servers. Assuming that Azura's Star is the control (as it always was a non-cp campaign), they get to see how Haderus and True Flame is affected by the 1 week change, and then compare it to Azura's Star.

Also, I can assure the console that they won't have to deal with this test.

How is changing two variables at once scientific.

They are currently not able to tell if player behavior or noCP cause the difference for azura.
Taking away CP for all campaigns will inevitably change playerbehavior.

So if lag gets better during that time they still won´t be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or CP causing the lag.

In fact the only meaningful result would be the campaigns still lagging @Gan Xing

Holy crap, I really never write such things, but this nonsense..

Im.currently writing a doctor thesis and if they change 1 variable it is scientific. All you do is assuming that there are 2, but there arent. Changing the CP is 1 change, the less skill spam is a result of that, non a variable.

Furthermore there will still be 1 min big zerg spam fights, if theres better performance u even have the answer. People could even play with more regen - so no change in playstyle. Variables are controllable and playstyle ist none holy ***.

So stop this *** just cuz ur build wont work that 1 week and your "game without CP is no fünf" term. Maxybe it isnt for you, but maybe it is for others, u thought about that ? Lawl PLZ stop that.

Ofc player behavior is a variable in this case (as it changes with no CP because players will be unable to play the same way they would if there were cp).
Their problem is that one variable is dependant on the other in their system.

If they can not distinguish between:
a) less lag because of different player behavior
b) less lag because of no cp calculations

Their only solution is to permanently disable CP. Or change CP calculations and hope that fixes lag (with the real risk of player behavior being the deciding factor for lag and wasting work on a change with no effect - thiswould not be a risk if it wasn´t a variable - but it is).

To draw relevant conclusions they´d have to find a way for people to play the same way they do currently (ie same costs and dmg/reductions) without cp enabled. That would yield results.

I don´t have high hopes for your doctor thesis - unless it´s in gender studies but than why bring it up as it´s obviously irrelevant.

Of course its not, u arent a dumb guy derra , come on.

How u wanna controller how I am playing? Ur asdumption is -> less sustain - less spam. Fine. What if -> less sustain -> stack more regen -> same spam.

Variables are on ur side, u can controll them. U just cant controll how much the players will spam or not, u can try to put them into one field, but there are (eapecially in this game) always ways to compensate that.

Data like CP are variables, u just put them off or on. This is a variable. How u wanna put game style off or on? Okay got me, habe 10h maintenance

Alter all skilldmg and skillcost to match their CP enabled cost/dmg with a disabled cp system so people don´t experience any change.
That´s how you control that variable.
You provide an environment where nothing for testsubjects has changed apart from the variable you want to test.

You literally have to make a *** of an effort so people actually don´t change their behavior at all. That´s my whole point.

Etaniel

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also what kind of nonscientific approach for the topic is that. You simply won´t get any worthwhile results @ZOS_BrianWheeler because people can not play the same way with CP compared to playing without.

They simply can´t use their skills in the same way.

Actually, it is very scientific. They observed a phenomenon and they are testing it throughout multiple different servers. Assuming that Azura's Star is the control (as it always was a non-cp campaign), they get to see how Haderus and True Flame is affected by the 1 week change, and then compare it to Azura's Star.

Also, I can assure the console that they won't have to deal with this test.

How is changing two variables at once scientific.

They are currently not able to tell if player behavior or noCP cause the difference for azura.
Taking away CP for all campaigns will inevitably change playerbehavior.

So if lag gets better during that time they still won´t be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or CP causing the lag.

In fact the only meaningful result would be the campaigns still lagging @Gan Xing

Holy crap, I really never write such things, but this nonsense..

Im.currently writing a doctor thesis and if they change 1 variable it is scientific. All you do is assuming that there are 2, but there arent. Changing the CP is 1 change, the less skill spam is a result of that, non a variable.

Furthermore there will still be 1 min big zerg spam fights, if theres better performance u even have the answer. People could even play with more regen - so no change in playstyle. Variables are controllable and playstyle ist none holy ***.

So stop this *** just cuz ur build wont work that 1 week and your "game without CP is no fünf" term. Maxybe it isnt for you, but maybe it is for others, u thought about that ? Lawl PLZ stop that.

Ofc player behavior is a variable in this case (as it changes with no CP because players will be unable to play the same way they would if there were cp).
Their problem is that one variable is dependant on the other in their system.

If they can not distinguish between:
a) less lag because of different player behavior
b) less lag because of no cp calculations

Their only solution is to permanently disable CP. Or change CP calculations and hope that fixes lag (with the real risk of player behavior being the deciding factor for lag and wasting work on a change with no effect - thiswould not be a risk if it wasn´t a variable - but it is).

To draw relevant conclusions they´d have to find a way for people to play the same way they do currently (ie same costs and dmg/reductions) without cp enabled. That would yield results.

I don´t have high hopes for your doctor thesis - unless it´s in gender studies but than why bring it up as it´s obviously irrelevant.

Of course its not, u arent a dumb guy derra , come on.

How u wanna controller how I am playing? Ur asdumption is -> less sustain - less spam. Fine. What if -> less sustain -> stack more regen -> same spam.

Variables are on ur side, u can controll them. U just cant controll how much the players will spam or not, u can try to put them into one field, but there are (eapecially in this game) always ways to compensate that.

Data like CP are variables, u just put them off or on. This is a variable. How u wanna put game style off or on? Okay got me, habe 10h maintenance

You can't achieve CP sustain on non CP campaigns.
I don't understand why people are giving Derra so much sh** when he points out the huge gapping flaw of this test.

As other people have proposed, they should change battle spirit to make up for the removal of CP, just for that week. That way we indeed get to test the change of ONE variable, CP calculations, while keeping the same player behaviour.

stevepdodson_ESO888

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Been waiting for this! Super stoked to see how the other campaigns function, and hopefully move to a much healthier, happier Cyrodiil. Divines bless you @ZOS_BrianWheeler and team

I think you already knew this ahead of time didn't you?

it's not all he know's either

Torbschka

Etaniel wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Torbschka wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Also what kind of nonscientific approach for the topic is that. You simply won´t get any worthwhile results @ZOS_BrianWheeler because people can not play the same way with CP compared to playing without.

They simply can´t use their skills in the same way.

Actually, it is very scientific. They observed a phenomenon and they are testing it throughout multiple different servers. Assuming that Azura's Star is the control (as it always was a non-cp campaign), they get to see how Haderus and True Flame is affected by the 1 week change, and then compare it to Azura's Star.

Also, I can assure the console that they won't have to deal with this test.

How is changing two variables at once scientific.

They are currently not able to tell if player behavior or noCP cause the difference for azura.
Taking away CP for all campaigns will inevitably change playerbehavior.

So if lag gets better during that time they still won´t be able to tell if it´s playerbehavior or CP causing the lag.

In fact the only meaningful result would be the campaigns still lagging @Gan Xing

Holy crap, I really never write such things, but this nonsense..

Im.currently writing a doctor thesis and if they change 1 variable it is scientific. All you do is assuming that there are 2, but there arent. Changing the CP is 1 change, the less skill spam is a result of that, non a variable.

Furthermore there will still be 1 min big zerg spam fights, if theres better performance u even have the answer. People could even play with more regen - so no change in playstyle. Variables are controllable and playstyle ist none holy ***.

So stop this *** just cuz ur build wont work that 1 week and your "game without CP is no fünf" term. Maxybe it isnt for you, but maybe it is for others, u thought about that ? Lawl PLZ stop that.

Ofc player behavior is a variable in this case (as it changes with no CP because players will be unable to play the same way they would if there were cp).
Their problem is that one variable is dependant on the other in their system.

If they can not distinguish between:
a) less lag because of different player behavior
b) less lag because of no cp calculations

Their only solution is to permanently disable CP. Or change CP calculations and hope that fixes lag (with the real risk of player behavior being the deciding factor for lag and wasting work on a change with no effect - thiswould not be a risk if it wasn´t a variable - but it is).

To draw relevant conclusions they´d have to find a way for people to play the same way they do currently (ie same costs and dmg/reductions) without cp enabled. That would yield results.

I don´t have high hopes for your doctor thesis - unless it´s in gender studies but than why bring it up as it´s obviously irrelevant.

Of course its not, u arent a dumb guy derra , come on.

How u wanna controller how I am playing? Ur asdumption is -> less sustain - less spam. Fine. What if -> less sustain -> stack more regen -> same spam.

Variables are on ur side, u can controll them. U just cant controll how much the players will spam or not, u can try to put them into one field, but there are (eapecially in this game) always ways to compensate that.

Data like CP are variables, u just put them off or on. This is a variable. How u wanna put game style off or on? Okay got me, habe 10h maintenance

You can't achieve CP sustain on non CP campaigns.
I don't understand why people are giving Derra so much sh** when he points out the huge gapping flaw of this test.

As other people have proposed, they should change battle spirit to make up for the removal of CP, just for that week. That way we indeed get to test the change of ONE variable, CP calculations, while keeping the same player behaviour.

Still not convinced. I guarentee that I will be able to create a setup with WAY more sustain than my current on the CP campaign and Im pretty sure both of u can do. The sacrifice in DMG is obvious, but thats about.

I dont give trash on derra, i like him, i just dont think hes (and you) are on the right track. I dont See how u wanna create the same playing field in this game, ur solution wont work either derra and its very simple.

E.g. I use atronach + regen drinks, u are mage + max food. U can do what u want, but as long as I am as a player has the choice to choose betweem different setups/styles u can not controll me - thats my whole point. There is no way u can controll me unless u have 5 skills, 1 set, 1 mundus and 1 drink/food and we obvious dont have that.