4v4v4

Mako1132

Kas wrote: »

did they say anything about soloq vs premade matchmaking?

Nah. Just about 3 different map modes.

NightbladeMechanics

I think making the battlegrounds XvXvX is a genius move.

Fights between two teams devolve into the two sides posturing against each other across an open field until one side lines up a one shot on an enemy member.

If one team swings back to use terrain or draw the enemy team into close quarters or something, the other team just backs up into the open and says "no, you come to us or we won't fight."

In an XvXvX scenario, one team can dip out of the engagement to break away from the second, but then the third has an opening to engage on the second. The second group will want to pursue the first to finish someone off before turning to defend against the third. Or, more importantly, the second will withdraw in a different direction to avoid being caught between the first and third groups, and then any group that does find themselves caught between the other two will find themselves promptly collapsed on. Terrain and mobility will become more useful, as will sharp maneuvers.

TLDR: XvX mimics dueling mechanics on a slightly larger scale -- i.e. line of sight and terrain lose their importance and inhibit the fight because groups can sit in a field and just say nope. XvXvX mechanics will more closely mimic open world encounters where groups can maneuver to draw the other two groups into fighting each other in order to dip out of the fight and reposition themselves.

I'm excited for this.

Sanct16

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

Erynyes

any chance we can get euro vs NA at some point

Psilent

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I agree with you about the matchmaking. I'd like this to appeal to all players so queue times are not long. If non-skilled players are constantly losing over and over to pre-made teams then they'll just stop queuing and we'll end up with long queue times.

One very viable solution is to cap pre-made teams at 2.

Another is to have personal ratings, so the more you win; you'll only fight others who are winning.

I'm hoping ZOS does this right because I'm really looking forward to this addition to the game. While I am blessed with having the tools and players to make a great 4's team; I know a vast majority will not and I really want to get more players involved in PvP. It'll only help in making the community stronger.

makeumrage

Sandman929 wrote: »

I hope they have an option for private matches in mind, removed from whatever leaderboards they already have confirmed. If this is just piggy-backing the Dungeon Finder where you queue in with a group, or solo and get in a PUG, it'll be fine, but it'd be nice if there were some way to host custom matches with 12 other players you know.

I hope they dont. I hope they require you to get on level with other and compete. Thats the same mindset of the people asking for an instanced pve version of cyrodill

Sanct16

Psilent wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I agree with you about the matchmaking. I'd like this to appeal to all players so queue times are not long. If non-skilled players are constantly losing over and over to pre-made teams then they'll just stop queuing and we'll end up with long queue times.

One very viable solution is to cap pre-made teams at 2.

Another is to have personal ratings, so the more you win; you'll only fight others who are winning.

I'm hoping ZOS does this right because I'm really looking forward to this addition to the game. While I am blessed with having the tools and players to make a great 4's team; I know a vast majority will not and I really want to get more players involved in PvP. It'll only help in making the community stronger.

I think capping premade teams at 2 would be a bad idea. For me at least it would highly lower the fun if I had to play with 2 randoms always, to the point where i would probably not bother playing it for a long time.

DeadlyRecluse

makeumrage wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I hope they have an option for private matches in mind, removed from whatever leaderboards they already have confirmed. If this is just piggy-backing the Dungeon Finder where you queue in with a group, or solo and get in a PUG, it'll be fine, but it'd be nice if there were some way to host custom matches with 12 other players you know.

I hope they dont. I hope they require you to get on level with other and compete. Thats the same mindset of the people asking for an instanced pve version of cyrodill

It's really not. A lot of guilds enjoy structured Guild V Guild activity, and a premade format would make that possible. It has nothing to do with wanting to avoid PvP.

Yuke

If they prevent people from queueing (or changing builds) for specific game modes many of the USELESS cancer builds wont be a problem.

Psilent

makeumrage wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I hope they have an option for private matches in mind, removed from whatever leaderboards they already have confirmed. If this is just piggy-backing the Dungeon Finder where you queue in with a group, or solo and get in a PUG, it'll be fine, but it'd be nice if there were some way to host custom matches with 12 other players you know.

I hope they dont. I hope they require you to get on level with other and compete. Thats the same mindset of the people asking for an instanced pve version of cyrodill

I think it would be awesome to have pre-arranged fights. 4 Invictus vers 4 Vehemence vers 4 Hagnado would be a lot of fun.

The only thing I'd advise in a match like that is it not counting for any leaderboards and kills/wins are worth zero AP; Would stop potential abuse.

Forztr

I really hope they have 4 queues

yolo solo
premade 4somes
both in CP and non-CP flavors.

And that they match players together on ranking

Premades farming PUGs will kill arenas for all but a few if matchmaking sucks and population drops below a critical mass to have matchmaking be effective.

personally I would rather have had slightly larger matches that were more objective driven. You rarely get a fair fight in cyro and an instanced 8v8 or 12v12 over a resource of some sort would have been more my preference. 4's will be stun lock focused burst kills, rinse repeat. In swtor the 8v8 objective based matches are way more fun than the 4v4 deathmatches.

DeadlyRecluse

Forztr wrote: »

I really hope they have 4 queues

yolo solo
premade 4somes
both in CP and non-CP flavors.

And that they match players together on ranking

Premades farming PUGs will kill arenas for all but a few if matchmaking sucks and population drops below a critical mass to have matchmaking be effective.

personally I would rather have had slightly larger matches that were more objective driven. You rarely get a fair fight in cyro and an instanced 8v8 or 12v12 over a resource of some sort would have been more my preference. 4's will be stun lock focused burst kills, rinse repeat. In swtor the 8v8 objective based matches are way more fun than the 4v4 deathmatches.

This is spot on, though I wonder if there will be enough population/interest to keep 4 different ranked queues clicking along at a decent rate.

I'd settle for a CP and noCP queue that sorted players by rank AND tried to match roughly similar premades (a 2man and 2 pugs vs a 3man and a pug, for instance---as long as it isn't pairing 4mans against pure randoms)

Yuke

I dont understand why people already complain about premade groups.

You guys have half a year from now to find people interested in competitive small scale fighting. Group up with them, join TS and hone your PvP skills untill you are ready for Arenas against good people...

Maybe the utter piece of garbage performance we have in cyrodiil now will also get better with that approach...

Psilent

Sanct16 wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I agree with you about the matchmaking. I'd like this to appeal to all players so queue times are not long. If non-skilled players are constantly losing over and over to pre-made teams then they'll just stop queuing and we'll end up with long queue times.

One very viable solution is to cap pre-made teams at 2.

Another is to have personal ratings, so the more you win; you'll only fight others who are winning.

I'm hoping ZOS does this right because I'm really looking forward to this addition to the game. While I am blessed with having the tools and players to make a great 4's team; I know a vast majority will not and I really want to get more players involved in PvP. It'll only help in making the community stronger.

I think capping premade teams at 2 would be a bad idea. For me at least it would highly lower the fun if I had to play with 2 randoms always, to the point where i would probably not bother playing it for a long time.

I agree with that too. Which is why I'm leaning more to a win:loss ratio matchmaking scheme. The more you win the more teams you'll face who have also won matches.

I'm just wanting this to be fun for even the new solo player to the game. Nothing is worse than ressing up to be killed 1 second later, then ressing again and the same thing happens until the BG is over.

Asgari

hopefully they hide player names until the end. Otherwise GG to those people who are known and disliked. It will become 8v4 very quickly.

Sandman929

makeumrage wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

I hope they have an option for private matches in mind, removed from whatever leaderboards they already have confirmed. If this is just piggy-backing the Dungeon Finder where you queue in with a group, or solo and get in a PUG, it'll be fine, but it'd be nice if there were some way to host custom matches with 12 other players you know.

I hope they dont. I hope they require you to get on level with other and compete. Thats the same mindset of the people asking for an instanced pve version of cyrodill

It's got nothing to do with getting on any level, it's about making better use of a new game mode. Getting a group together and queuing in for a random battle is fine, that's what the leaderboards should be for, but adding customized private matches makes the feature more attractive. It can provide a way for groups to work out a good group dynamic in a controlled space. It will make Battlegrounds more fun for intra-guild competition. It will make Battlegrounds a well rounded feature rather than just an extention of Dungeon Finder, and it won't take anything away from the ranked Battlegrounds.

Ashamray

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

hopefully they hide player names until the end. Otherwise GG to those people who are known and disliked. It will become 8v4 very quickly.

Nice idea, but how will you coordinate targeting? There are no addons like in WoW to target target's target

Blackfyre20

Super pumped about this and I agree there should be some sort of class limit. That is kinda a bummer though at the same time since I mostly play stamplar and as it stands there would be no reason at all to bring a stamplar instead of a magplar.

NightbladeMechanics

Psilent wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I agree with you about the matchmaking. I'd like this to appeal to all players so queue times are not long. If non-skilled players are constantly losing over and over to pre-made teams then they'll just stop queuing and we'll end up with long queue times.

One very viable solution is to cap pre-made teams at 2.

Another is to have personal ratings, so the more you win; you'll only fight others who are winning.

I'm hoping ZOS does this right because I'm really looking forward to this addition to the game. While I am blessed with having the tools and players to make a great 4's team; I know a vast majority will not and I really want to get more players involved in PvP. It'll only help in making the community stronger.

I think capping premade teams at 2 would be a bad idea. For me at least it would highly lower the fun if I had to play with 2 randoms always, to the point where i would probably not bother playing it for a long time.

I agree with that too. Which is why I'm leaning more to a win:loss ratio matchmaking scheme. The more you win the more teams you'll face who have also won matches.

I'm just wanting this to be fun for even the new solo player to the game. Nothing is worse than ressing up to be killed 1 second later, then ressing again and the same thing happens until the BG is over.

Manual ressing had better be severely limited....

Psilent

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I agree with you about the matchmaking. I'd like this to appeal to all players so queue times are not long. If non-skilled players are constantly losing over and over to pre-made teams then they'll just stop queuing and we'll end up with long queue times.

One very viable solution is to cap pre-made teams at 2.

Another is to have personal ratings, so the more you win; you'll only fight others who are winning.

I'm hoping ZOS does this right because I'm really looking forward to this addition to the game. While I am blessed with having the tools and players to make a great 4's team; I know a vast majority will not and I really want to get more players involved in PvP. It'll only help in making the community stronger.

I think capping premade teams at 2 would be a bad idea. For me at least it would highly lower the fun if I had to play with 2 randoms always, to the point where i would probably not bother playing it for a long time.

I agree with that too. Which is why I'm leaning more to a win:loss ratio matchmaking scheme. The more you win the more teams you'll face who have also won matches.

I'm just wanting this to be fun for even the new solo player to the game. Nothing is worse than ressing up to be killed 1 second later, then ressing again and the same thing happens until the BG is over.

Manual ressing had better be severely limited....

You shouldn't be allowed to manual rez, imo. You should have a Rez spot and be put on a small timer like IC.

FENGRUSH

Lord FENGRUSH is prepared for 4v8.

Derra

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I´m kinda afraid that they have not lost a single word about matchmaking.
I fear they won´t have any form of mmr or elo system when this launches resulting in arenas being basically stillborn for a large part of the community.

Biro123

I guess 4x4x4 should stop any spawncamping problems - which makes me think that they may not be separating pugs/premades etc.

Psilent

Derra wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a very important element to make this successful will be the matchmaking. It is fairly reasonae to assume that there will be a huge difference in skill between different 4 man groups, so it has to be assured that groups of equal level get matched.

I'm really looking forward to this, kinda wish we would get it sooner.

I´m kinda afraid that they have not lost a single word about matchmaking.
I fear they won´t have any form of mmr or elo system when this launches resulting in arenas being basically stillborn for a large part of the community.

This is what we don't want to happen.

WoW released Arenas around 2007ish and I remember after the initial "OMG!!!!!!! Arenas!!!" Queue times were awful; we'd wait 35 to 40 minutes and then it would pop. We'd get into the arena and the other team would see our names; realize we beat them twice before a few days ago and then promptly leave without fighting.

Biro123 wrote: »

I guess 4x4x4 should stop any spawncamping problems - which makes me think that they may not be separating pugs/premades etc.

Good point!

Luigi_Vampa

Yuke wrote: »

I dont understand why people already complain about premade groups.

You guys have half a year from now to find people interested in competitive small scale fighting. Group up with them, join TS and hone your PvP skills untill you are ready for Arenas against good people...

Maybe the utter piece of garbage performance we have in cyrodiil now will also get better with that approach...

They are just starting the excuses early.

Forztr

Yuke wrote: »

I dont understand why people already complain about premade groups.

You guys have half a year from now to find people interested in competitive small scale fighting. Group up with them, join TS and hone your PvP skills untill you are ready for Arenas against good people...
...

Because we've PVPed in other games and know what happens when you have lousy matchmaking and premade groups matched against casual solo queue randoms. The casual randoms get stomped don't queue again, queue times go up and you end up with very few people playing it. The game company then can't justify spending money on more arena development because nobody plays it.

So people are pre complaining this early so ZOS hears the concerns early enough to make match making an important feature of the system while there's still time to develop one and not bolt something on at the last minute or worse still post launch.

We all want it to be a success and the best PVP is the evenly matched PVP.

Satiar

I'm wary of this. You'll likely see me in there but I have a feeling it's going to get out of control fast. ZoS lost control of their balance a long time ago and tried to hide the problem by drowning us in new sets and Ults. There are going to be some really, really cancer premades

Dreyloch

I'm sure they will try to take some aspects of battlegrounds from other games.(death timers before re-entry, spawn points inaccessible to other teams etc). But I'm also 100% sure that most matches will be 1 or maybe 2 of the teams dominating and the other(s) just sits there with useless pugs that can't compete.Or even worse, good players that refuse to play cause they got a bad draw on a random group.

If they can't balance stuff now, I don't see how they can in this scenario. If you don't have an OP build I'm sure kicks from group will happen often too. Pre-mades will dominate and much cry will occur. I've seen all of this in Rift's PvP.

I would rather see a new overland map with different objectives, and I will try this 4v4v4 thing. But I'm pretty sure it'll be a wasteland after a couple months when ZoS can't balance it, and the competition dries up for the OP players.

Luigi_Vampa

I'm looking forward to 4v4v4 Bear fights. Maybe we can place bets.

Magus

Yep, I'll try it. First month it will be active, Cyrodiil lag will be great. It will be a time of peace and prosperity but after that first month, arenas will be empty and Cyrodiil will lag again.