ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
- Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.
Henryc1t807 wrote: »So I've been speaking with Jeckll, who is pretty much the exemplary nightblade and knows a lot about this sort of thing. I asked him how Zos could balance night blades and change them so that there is a balance between magicka and stamina.
First of all, incap strike. Get rod of the stun, reduce the damage but increase the duration of the damage increase to 8s.
Grim focus. It should be able to procc Assassins scourge multiple times or proccing the bow should reset the duration. Initial damage should be reduced but a 4s DoTshould be added to increase dps without burst, DoT should also scale with thurmatuge.
Master assassin passive. Should increase weapon and spell damage as long as you stand behind the target.
Executioner passive. Should also restore stamina if target is finished with a stam skill.
Veil of blades. Remove damage reduction and snare. Make the circle mobile. Increase dps. Redo the synergy, aoe the DoT and minor mangle.
Bolstering Darkness. Circle still immoble, 30% damage reduction. As soon as ranged attacks are cast on target in the circle, the ranged add is pulled in the circle and gets snared.
Dark cloak. Add the purge again.
Shadowy disguise. Get rid of the 100% crit. Add 5s major evasion and major expedition after the ability fades.
Concealed weapon. Reduce cost, increase damage. Has to deal more damage than force pulse.
Refreshing path. This should deal the same damage twisted does plus healing or movement speed. Synergy, restores 15% of your highest resource.
Twisted path. Rework it to path of thorns. Stam morph, disease damage and snare. Synergy, disease AoE damage.
Manifestation of Terror. 1 trap, unlimited targets, 4s snare after fear.
Dark shades. Stamina morph, deals physical damage.
Shadow image. Should be a caster, not archer.
Soul siphon. Places a siphon. Everyone in range gets healed and get more healing for 10s. Synergy, siphon explodes and deals magic damage equal to the healing siphon did until the explosion.
Funnel health. Old costs, reduce damage by 10%, heals 2 nearby targets for 40% kf the damage done.
Swallow soul. Old cost, damage on lar with force pulse + self heal + 8% more healing.
Prolonged suffering. Possibilty to cast on multiple targets. 16s DoT, damage increase as time goes by. Last tick does a dps bonus.
Malefic wreath. Castable on 1 target. 8s DoT. Target doesn't get hurt, pulses every sec with increasing AoE damage to nearby mobs. Last tick does a dps bonus.
Debilitate. Skills cast on the target afflicted by debilitate cost 8% less and deal 2% more damage for 8s.
Leeching Strikes. Rename to leeching defence. Toggle, all attacks on the player steals x magicka, stamina and hp from the target, 1s cool down.
Power extraction. Afflicted targets recoeve 7% disease damage.
Hope people see this
thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.
I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.Strider_Roshin wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.
Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.
Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.
I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
- Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.
I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you elaborate on why Soul Harvest is receiving a cost nerf in addition to Incapacitating Strike?
Cause the 2 skills probably inherit the same ult value in code. Changing one changes both and they don't feel like rewriting the code.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »NightbladeMechanics wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you elaborate on why Soul Harvest is receiving a cost nerf in addition to Incapacitating Strike?
Cause the 2 skills probably inherit the same ult value in code. Changing one changes both and they don't feel like rewriting the code.
I'm aware of this.. I asked ZOS to elaborate on the balance logic, not their laziness.
PrinceRyzen wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
- Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.
I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good
If this thing attacks when we are in stealth it is a huge nerf to this ability.
Correct me if I'm wrong but, the NB nerfs this patch are strife, double take, incap and now shade IIRC.
thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.
I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.Strider_Roshin wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.
Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.
Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.
I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.
How much have you played that class? Because you can deal in 1vs1, but the second guy coming is going to kill you, and you have no way to run away, just die (unless you become vamp)
thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.
I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.Strider_Roshin wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.
Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.
Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.
I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.
How much have you played that class? Because you can deal in 1vs1, but the second guy coming is going to kill you, and you have no way to run away, just die (unless you become vamp)
That's every magicka class except magicka sorc though. And even mag sorcs are starting to use mist form. It's the only way a magicka class can reposition
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »NightbladeMechanics wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you elaborate on why Soul Harvest is receiving a cost nerf in addition to Incapacitating Strike?
Cause the 2 skills probably inherit the same ult value in code. Changing one changes both and they don't feel like rewriting the code.
I'm aware of this.. I asked ZOS to elaborate on the balance logic, not their laziness.
masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago
ZoS and Balance just don't go together.
thankyourat wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago
ZoS and Balance just don't go together.
The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials
masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago
ZoS and Balance just don't go together.
The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials
You mean the top-tier (arguably the most fun/intense) content you're supposed to work towards? LOL I'm good. My sub will last a month and I can pop in to see where it's at.
This combined with ZoS totally ignoring the fact that bows are the only weapon in the game you can't main without gimp damage since forever ago doesn't exactly leave me confident. It will never change if it hasn't by now. The new passive change is a drop in the bucket, so I'm not impressed.
arkansas_ESO wrote: »Magic NB is in a weird spot because it's meant to be a mobile skirmisher like Sorcerer, yet it lacks the needed mobility.
Cloak, while it's definitely very useful to get the drop on people (which is why gankers use it), it's completely useless once the enemy knows you're actually there. Ignoring the bugs with Cloak (and there's a lot of them), it's still hard countered by AOE (Boundless Storm, Hurricane, Ritual of Retribution, Volatile Armor [notice how I've listed at least one skill that's already commonly slotted for a reason other than to pull NBs out of cloak, like to give armor buffs or to purge]) and Detect abilities (Inner Light, Radiant Magelight, Flare, Evil Hunter, etc.) It's not worth using Cloak unless you're confident you can oneshot your target coming out of Cloak, and one-shotting out of stealth is more of stam NB's thing.
Shadow Image, while it's definitely fun to use and can be very useful when you've got a height advantage/lots of line of sight (placing your Shadow Image on top of a keep wall, jumping down, killing somebody, and then teleporting back to your shade, placing a shade behind a tree, running some ways away, and then porting back to the shade, etc.) is too situational.
Mist Form, while not a skill exclusive to magic NB, should be mentioned here. As people have said above, the reason all the good magic NBs run Mist Form instead of skills like Cloak and Shadow Image is because it's guaranteed to actually work (unlike Cloak), isn't easily countered (unlike Cloak), doesn't require placing it beforehand (unlike Shadow Image), and isn't only useful in certain situations (unlike Shadow Image.) Mist Form is the closest thing magic NBs can get to a guaranteed repositioning tool like Bolt Escape.
Magic NB is the only class that can really keep a 100% uptime on Major Expedition thanks to Crippling Grasp, but it doesn't really matter, as snares are everywhere in PVP, and magic NB has no way to reliably purge snares (Purge from the Alliance War skill line is too expensive to use as often as you'd need to.) I think giving Double Take/Mirage the ability to purge snares would help magic NB's mobility by a lot.
thankyourat wrote: »masterbroodub17_ESO wrote: »This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago
ZoS and Balance just don't go together.
The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials
Littlebluelizard wrote: »I for one don't mind the strife nerf too much.
My problem with strife is the animation. When you light attack and use strife really fast, sometimes your character get stuck in the animation. Because of that you end up not doing LA's until you stop attacking, which is a dps loss for no reason. I would gladly take the nerf if it meant that this bug was gone. NB's don't need a strong spamable skill for pure dps in trials or whatever, we have force pulse for that and that's ok. But for solo content Strife should be the go to for us, since the ability clearly favours either small group play with Funnel Health or solo play with Swallow Soul. But, if you really wanted to change strife, maybe working with the morphs is a good approach: making FH heal for more while SS deal more damage and heals less, similar to choosing twisting path vs refreshing path.
I think it's okay to magNB to not be the top ranged dps, imo they should not do the same damage as sorc because they offer utility to the group with off heal skills like Sap Essence. And maybe that should be something you guys could focus on: Making magNB offer more utility to the group instead of damage. You could make Hemorrhage give something else besides minor savagery... I would pretty much remove the savagery and add something completely different. Giving a minor buff to you group is a good idea, but sadly savagery is not that usefull unless there is stamboys in your group, which most of the times is not the case, but even then, not a good reason to have a magNB. I would suggest Minor Vitality but it would make more sense if it was in the siphoning tree instead soo... I am not sure, but it should be something unique to nightblades. Another options is to go for a damage approach, similar to Templars Aedric Spear passive that, makes your skills proc damage. Because of the name, Hemorrhage, a dot that would make more sense. Maybe the damage type would be either bleed or magic damage depending on the source too..
I like the idea behind grim focus, because it is difficult to maintain it 100% because you can't miss a light attack in your rotation, makes it really rewarding when you get it right. But... perhaps not that rewarding? Maybe adding more damage to the skill or something more to it? Maybe making your light/medium/heavy attacks do more damage, similar to bound armor? There's tons of stuff this skill could offer.
Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.
Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.
sorcs DIDNT GET ANY BUFFFFFFFFFFFFF
thy even didnt take anything........
curse is again same.............nobody wait it to cast till 8.5 sec.... so it is same
nlything destro staff....and it is to all magicka classses
so sorc didnt get anything changed buff or nerf in this F....ccing PATCHHHHH
Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.
sorcs DIDNT GET ANY BUFFFFFFFFFFFFF
thy even didnt take anything........
curse is again same.............nobody wait it to cast till 8.5 sec.... so it is same
nlything destro staff....and it is to all magicka classses
so sorc didnt get anything changed buff or nerf in this F....ccing PATCHHHHH
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
- Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.
I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good
I can deal with shade nerfs. Don't know why it was nerfed in the first place (wrobel got rekt on his stamsorc by nightblades way too often i guess). Strife nerf is still beyond me. Way too ***.