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PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

  • zammo
    zammo
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    Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
    • Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.

    I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good :)
  • kojou
    kojou
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    So I've been speaking with Jeckll, who is pretty much the exemplary nightblade and knows a lot about this sort of thing. I asked him how Zos could balance night blades and change them so that there is a balance between magicka and stamina.

    First of all, incap strike. Get rod of the stun, reduce the damage but increase the duration of the damage increase to 8s.

    Grim focus. It should be able to procc Assassins scourge multiple times or proccing the bow should reset the duration. Initial damage should be reduced but a 4s DoTshould be added to increase dps without burst, DoT should also scale with thurmatuge.

    Master assassin passive. Should increase weapon and spell damage as long as you stand behind the target.

    Executioner passive. Should also restore stamina if target is finished with a stam skill.

    Veil of blades. Remove damage reduction and snare. Make the circle mobile. Increase dps. Redo the synergy, aoe the DoT and minor mangle.

    Bolstering Darkness. Circle still immoble, 30% damage reduction. As soon as ranged attacks are cast on target in the circle, the ranged add is pulled in the circle and gets snared.

    Dark cloak. Add the purge again.

    Shadowy disguise. Get rid of the 100% crit. Add 5s major evasion and major expedition after the ability fades.

    Concealed weapon. Reduce cost, increase damage. Has to deal more damage than force pulse.

    Refreshing path. This should deal the same damage twisted does plus healing or movement speed. Synergy, restores 15% of your highest resource.

    Twisted path. Rework it to path of thorns. Stam morph, disease damage and snare. Synergy, disease AoE damage.

    Manifestation of Terror. 1 trap, unlimited targets, 4s snare after fear.

    Dark shades. Stamina morph, deals physical damage.

    Shadow image. Should be a caster, not archer.

    Soul siphon. Places a siphon. Everyone in range gets healed and get more healing for 10s. Synergy, siphon explodes and deals magic damage equal to the healing siphon did until the explosion.

    Funnel health. Old costs, reduce damage by 10%, heals 2 nearby targets for 40% kf the damage done.

    Swallow soul. Old cost, damage on lar with force pulse + self heal + 8% more healing.

    Prolonged suffering. Possibilty to cast on multiple targets. 16s DoT, damage increase as time goes by. Last tick does a dps bonus.

    Malefic wreath. Castable on 1 target. 8s DoT. Target doesn't get hurt, pulses every sec with increasing AoE damage to nearby mobs. Last tick does a dps bonus.

    Debilitate. Skills cast on the target afflicted by debilitate cost 8% less and deal 2% more damage for 8s.

    Leeching Strikes. Rename to leeching defence. Toggle, all attacks on the player steals x magicka, stamina and hp from the target, 1s cool down.

    Power extraction. Afflicted targets recoeve 7% disease damage.

    Hope people see this

    I'm not going to speak to the Stamina suggestions since I don't run a Stam-blade anymore, but I like some of the Magicka Nightblade things here.

    Making Prolonged Suffering 16 seconds (and boosting its damage) would be awesome it would fit in with 2 rotations of Cripple and Blockade. While we are at it can Twisting/Refreshing Path also be 16 seconds?

    I would love to see Funnel Health heal 2 targets again. I would say leave it at the cost that it is now in PTS, but don't reduce the damage. I used to have raid leaders say "I love it when we have a Magicka Nightblade in the group they do so much healing." and now they say "Magicka Nightblade? I'll put you down as an Alt?"

    In general Nightblades need more skills that have synergies attached to them... I don't even care what the synergy does. With Sorcs and Templars there are always a Liquid Lightning synergy or a Blazing Spear to proc Moondancer or Alkosh off of. Not so with Nightblades.

    I don't agree with the Veil of Blades change though. I personally think it should stay the way it is, but have a more useful and reliable synergy. the "While at low health" part means it doesn't get used very often. It is a mitigation Ultimate, so the point of using it is to sustain less damage so the healers can heal you easier meaning you are less likely to be at low health. Also increasing movement speed as part of the synergy is useless as well... why would anyone care if they have faster movement speed if they are sitting on a veil for mitigation? I say take away the low health requirement and the movement speed bonus and make Veil of Blades synergy give Major Berserk for 6 seconds and Bolstering Darkness give a damage shield to all allies in the veil for 6 seconds.

    Playing since beta...
  • actosh
    actosh
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    Why would u want a dmg shield when inside bolstering darkness?????
  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
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    If magic night Blade it is supposed to be a ranged support class then we definitely need more support meaning that we need to be able to give other players major or minor buffs upon activating an ability.
    This does not just mean synergies but also when we as a magic night Blade press and ability another player gets a buff.
    There is zero reason to run a magicka nightblade in a raid & zero reason to run magic duel wield in any situation PVP or PVE
    These things all need fixed and no matter how many times we say it over and over again ZOS already knows this; whether they are willing to do something about it or not it's completely up to them and that's just unfortunate as it's unlikely they will do something. ZOS just doesn't think there are enough people in the community who care about it =(

    Honestly if they did we could at least get some statement acknowledging any of the above even a simple we're working on it or we're looking at it would be fine but when they completely failed to comment on the thread as important as this that they themselves started and dictates an entire class; it just doesn't bode well on us thinking they care very much .
    Edited by kaithuzar on January 30, 2017 6:19PM
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  • kojou
    kojou
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    actosh wrote: »
    Why would u want a dmg shield when inside bolstering darkness?????

    you probably wouldn't, but if you waited until it was about to expire you could have a shield after it does.
    Playing since beta...
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    H4RDFOX wrote: »
    A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.

    If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.

    Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.

    Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.

    I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.
    If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.

    Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.

    Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.

    Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.

    I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.

    How much have you played that class? Because you can deal in 1vs1, but the second guy coming is going to kill you, and you have no way to run away, just die (unless you become vamp)
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  • PrinceRyzen
    PrinceRyzen
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    zammo wrote: »
    Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
    • Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.

    I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good :)


    If this thing attacks when we are in stealth it is a huge nerf to this ability.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but, the NB nerfs this patch are strife, double take, incap and now shade IIRC.

  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can you elaborate on why Soul Harvest is receiving a cost nerf in addition to Incapacitating Strike?

    Cause the 2 skills probably inherit the same ult value in code. Changing one changes both and they don't feel like rewriting the code.

    I'm aware of this.. I asked ZOS to elaborate on the balance logic, not their laziness.
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  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can you elaborate on why Soul Harvest is receiving a cost nerf in addition to Incapacitating Strike?

    Cause the 2 skills probably inherit the same ult value in code. Changing one changes both and they don't feel like rewriting the code.

    I'm aware of this.. I asked ZOS to elaborate on the balance logic, not their laziness.

    I use Soul Harvest on the stamblade cause I'm too lazy to change morphs between PvE and PvP. So yeah, revert Soul Harvest plzkthx.

    Seriously though I just hope stamblades get a little buff via Debilitate or something in time for the next trial.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    zammo wrote: »
    Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
    • Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.

    I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good :)


    If this thing attacks when we are in stealth it is a huge nerf to this ability.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but, the NB nerfs this patch are strife, double take, incap and now shade IIRC.

    You see it's known to all that Nightblades are OP. No but seriously they may not be the best in PvE, but they are the undisputed kings of PvP. Oh wait that's stam sorc, and mag sorc, and mag plar, and stamDK and well nevermind. We have our place though only Nightblades can give mitigation via and ultimate. Well there's nova... We look cool!!!
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    H4RDFOX wrote: »
    A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.

    If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.

    Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.

    Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.

    I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.
    If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.

    Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.

    Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.

    Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.

    I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.

    How much have you played that class? Because you can deal in 1vs1, but the second guy coming is going to kill you, and you have no way to run away, just die (unless you become vamp)

    That's every magicka class except magicka sorc though. And even mag sorcs are starting to use mist form. It's the only way a magicka class can reposition
  • cpuScientist
    cpuScientist
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    Xvorg wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    H4RDFOX wrote: »
    A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.

    If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.

    Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.

    Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.

    I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.
    If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.

    Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.

    Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.

    Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.

    I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.

    How much have you played that class? Because you can deal in 1vs1, but the second guy coming is going to kill you, and you have no way to run away, just die (unless you become vamp)

    That's every magicka class except magicka sorc though. And even mag sorcs are starting to use mist form. It's the only way a magicka class can reposition

    Shhhhh the magDK's totes have it worstest. They are the most hurtest class. No other class understandstandses. They are so skillfully how they are playing such a doomed class omg.

    Seriously though, even Kena one of the best mag Nightblades (if not the best) doesn't freaking use cloak or shades because they are all nerfed and gimped. The only good skill for magicka is mist form. All magicka except sorcs use this for mobility. They are all in heavy now too. They all have to build for Regen aswell. That's an issue with magicka now not with DK specifically.
    Edited by cpuScientist on January 31, 2017 1:21AM
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
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    LegacyDM wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno Can you elaborate on why Soul Harvest is receiving a cost nerf in addition to Incapacitating Strike?

    Cause the 2 skills probably inherit the same ult value in code. Changing one changes both and they don't feel like rewriting the code.

    I'm aware of this.. I asked ZOS to elaborate on the balance logic, not their laziness.

    that's really all there is too it tho. that's pretty much been the direction they went in regards to balance every patch.

    1. reduce shield duration rather than add major/minor system

    2. nerf all proc sets because a couple are overperforming.

    3. nerf Soul harvest twice because Incap is overperfoming

    their changes are based on what's easier rather what's efficient. this approach has already caused a plethora of issues and is gonna cause more in future. one of the big reasons this game is never gonna have any real form of balance.
    Edited by Lucky28 on January 31, 2017 2:16AM
    Invictus
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    Shadow image is buggy and the range is to short. Make the teleport range longer.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • masterbroodub17_ESO
    This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago :D:D

    ZoS and Balance just don't go together.
    Edited by masterbroodub17_ESO on February 1, 2017 12:33AM
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago :D:D

    ZoS and Balance just don't go together.

    The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials
  • masterbroodub17_ESO
    This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago :D:D

    ZoS and Balance just don't go together.

    The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials

    You mean the top-tier (arguably the most fun/intense) content you're supposed to work towards? LOL I'm good. My sub will last a month and I can pop in to see where it's at.

    This combined with ZoS totally ignoring the fact that bows are the only weapon in the game you can't main without gimp damage since forever ago doesn't exactly leave me confident. It will never change if it hasn't by now. The new passive change is a drop in the bucket, so I'm not impressed.

    Edited by masterbroodub17_ESO on February 1, 2017 12:56AM
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago :D:D

    ZoS and Balance just don't go together.

    The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials

    You mean the top-tier (arguably the most fun/intense) content you're supposed to work towards? LOL I'm good. My sub will last a month and I can pop in to see where it's at.

    This combined with ZoS totally ignoring the fact that bows are the only weapon in the game you can't main without gimp damage since forever ago doesn't exactly leave me confident. It will never change if it hasn't by now. The new passive change is a drop in the bucket, so I'm not impressed.

    Lol I'm not trying to get you to re-sub. I see trials as just one aspect of the game. Yes my magblade DPS is a little lower in trial but I still manage to beat every trial in the game except vet maw. I still beat Maelstrom, and it's great in PvP. So if you only play one aspect of the game then yes balance seems a little off, but if you play all the aspects of game balance doesn't seem so bad. Where my character lacks in trials it makes up for it in PvP. Every class has strengths and every class can complete all the content.
  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
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    Magic NB is in a weird spot because it's meant to be a mobile skirmisher like Sorcerer, yet it lacks the needed mobility.

    Cloak, while it's definitely very useful to get the drop on people (which is why gankers use it), it's completely useless once the enemy knows you're actually there. Ignoring the bugs with Cloak (and there's a lot of them), it's still hard countered by AOE (Boundless Storm, Hurricane, Ritual of Retribution, Volatile Armor [notice how I've listed at least one skill that's already commonly slotted for a reason other than to pull NBs out of cloak, like to give armor buffs or to purge]) and Detect abilities (Inner Light, Radiant Magelight, Flare, Evil Hunter, etc.) It's not worth using Cloak unless you're confident you can oneshot your target coming out of Cloak, and one-shotting out of stealth is more of stam NB's thing.

    Shadow Image, while it's definitely fun to use and can be very useful when you've got a height advantage/lots of line of sight (placing your Shadow Image on top of a keep wall, jumping down, killing somebody, and then teleporting back to your shade, placing a shade behind a tree, running some ways away, and then porting back to the shade, etc.) is too situational.

    Mist Form, while not a skill exclusive to magic NB, should be mentioned here. As people have said above, the reason all the good magic NBs run Mist Form instead of skills like Cloak and Shadow Image is because it's guaranteed to actually work (unlike Cloak), isn't easily countered (unlike Cloak), doesn't require placing it beforehand (unlike Shadow Image), and isn't only useful in certain situations (unlike Shadow Image.) Mist Form is the closest thing magic NBs can get to a guaranteed repositioning tool like Bolt Escape.

    Magic NB is the only class that can really keep a 100% uptime on Major Expedition thanks to Crippling Grasp, but it doesn't really matter, as snares are everywhere in PVP, and magic NB has no way to reliably purge snares (Purge from the Alliance War skill line is too expensive to use as often as you'd need to.) I think giving Double Take/Mirage the ability to purge snares would help magic NB's mobility by a lot.
    Edited by arkansas_ESO on February 1, 2017 6:49AM


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Magic NB is in a weird spot because it's meant to be a mobile skirmisher like Sorcerer, yet it lacks the needed mobility.

    Cloak, while it's definitely very useful to get the drop on people (which is why gankers use it), it's completely useless once the enemy knows you're actually there. Ignoring the bugs with Cloak (and there's a lot of them), it's still hard countered by AOE (Boundless Storm, Hurricane, Ritual of Retribution, Volatile Armor [notice how I've listed at least one skill that's already commonly slotted for a reason other than to pull NBs out of cloak, like to give armor buffs or to purge]) and Detect abilities (Inner Light, Radiant Magelight, Flare, Evil Hunter, etc.) It's not worth using Cloak unless you're confident you can oneshot your target coming out of Cloak, and one-shotting out of stealth is more of stam NB's thing.

    Shadow Image, while it's definitely fun to use and can be very useful when you've got a height advantage/lots of line of sight (placing your Shadow Image on top of a keep wall, jumping down, killing somebody, and then teleporting back to your shade, placing a shade behind a tree, running some ways away, and then porting back to the shade, etc.) is too situational.

    Mist Form, while not a skill exclusive to magic NB, should be mentioned here. As people have said above, the reason all the good magic NBs run Mist Form instead of skills like Cloak and Shadow Image is because it's guaranteed to actually work (unlike Cloak), isn't easily countered (unlike Cloak), doesn't require placing it beforehand (unlike Shadow Image), and isn't only useful in certain situations (unlike Shadow Image.) Mist Form is the closest thing magic NBs can get to a guaranteed repositioning tool like Bolt Escape.

    Magic NB is the only class that can really keep a 100% uptime on Major Expedition thanks to Crippling Grasp, but it doesn't really matter, as snares are everywhere in PVP, and magic NB has no way to reliably purge snares (Purge from the Alliance War skill line is too expensive to use as often as you'd need to.) I think giving Double Take/Mirage the ability to purge snares would help magic NB's mobility by a lot.

    That's what I would like to see as well. Or make cloak purge snares and roots. Anything so I don't have to use crappy mist form

  • Edziu
    Edziu
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    This just cements my decision to drop my sub after I foolishly resubbed only a few days ago :D:D

    ZoS and Balance just don't go together.

    The PvP balance is actually pretty good right now every class is viable. PvE as well with the exception of trials

    haha trials

    I not long ago joined to raid guild, I have only stamina nb as DD, no more chars to play with fun as I have on my stamblade.
    Was weakly run for craglorn trials hardmodes, I was the only one stamina dps in this group and with alkosh to support group, I felt strangely while I was the only stam dps and nb in this (one of the worst stmaina dps), I think if not alkosh to support they could take another dd, magica or atlest stmaina sorc/dk which are much better than nb dd on stamina
  • Mordenkainen
    Mordenkainen
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    Seriously? Did Strife/Swallow Soul/Funnel Health ever deal too much damage? I don't think so. If anything this should be buffed instead of getting its cost increased.

    Or at the very least give Agony a *** VIABLE DoT morph for PVE. Or make its DoT component apply instantly on enemies immune to root effects.

    Stop killing off the magicka playstyle for NBs.
  • Artis
    Artis
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    I for one don't mind the strife nerf too much.

    My problem with strife is the animation. When you light attack and use strife really fast, sometimes your character get stuck in the animation. Because of that you end up not doing LA's until you stop attacking, which is a dps loss for no reason. I would gladly take the nerf if it meant that this bug was gone. NB's don't need a strong spamable skill for pure dps in trials or whatever, we have force pulse for that and that's ok. But for solo content Strife should be the go to for us, since the ability clearly favours either small group play with Funnel Health or solo play with Swallow Soul. But, if you really wanted to change strife, maybe working with the morphs is a good approach: making FH heal for more while SS deal more damage and heals less, similar to choosing twisting path vs refreshing path.

    I think it's okay to magNB to not be the top ranged dps, imo they should not do the same damage as sorc because they offer utility to the group with off heal skills like Sap Essence. And maybe that should be something you guys could focus on: Making magNB offer more utility to the group instead of damage. You could make Hemorrhage give something else besides minor savagery... I would pretty much remove the savagery and add something completely different. Giving a minor buff to you group is a good idea, but sadly savagery is not that usefull unless there is stamboys in your group, which most of the times is not the case, but even then, not a good reason to have a magNB. I would suggest Minor Vitality but it would make more sense if it was in the siphoning tree instead soo... I am not sure, but it should be something unique to nightblades. Another options is to go for a damage approach, similar to Templars Aedric Spear passive that, makes your skills proc damage. Because of the name, Hemorrhage, a dot that would make more sense. Maybe the damage type would be either bleed or magic damage depending on the source too..

    I like the idea behind grim focus, because it is difficult to maintain it 100% because you can't miss a light attack in your rotation, makes it really rewarding when you get it right. But... perhaps not that rewarding? Maybe adding more damage to the skill or something more to it? Maybe making your light/medium/heavy attacks do more damage, similar to bound armor? There's tons of stuff this skill could offer.

    I think you don't understand what utilities groups need. Not being the top ranged DPS simply means not being invited in groups if a leader has a choice. Don't believe me? Just log in and open the trial leaderboards. They clearly show that sorcs bring more to the table and are in demand. They offer higher DPS and a synergy that they drop in rotation (liquid lighting) and that can be activated by Moondancer and Alkosh users. That is WAY more powerful than NBs pathetic heal from skills they shouldn't even use in groups because it will be a dps loss and a healer is more than capable to handle things without funnel health (once again - leaderboards are sufficient proof for this). NB doesn't bring anything a group doesn't already have and have low DPS. They are not needed in a group. THere are better healers, better tanks and better DPS and they all bring more in terms of utilities and synergize with a group better.

  • TheHsN
    TheHsN
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    Witar wrote: »
    Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.

    sorcs DIDNT GET ANY BUFFFFFFFFFFFFF
    thy even didnt take anything........
    curse is again same.............nobody wait it to cast till 8.5 sec.... so it is same

    nlything destro staff....and it is to all magicka classses

    so sorc didnt get anything changed buff or nerf in this F....ccing PATCHHHHH
    Plays:
    Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
    Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
    Magicka Templar - PvE
    Stamina Templar - PvP
    Magicka DK - PvE
    Stamina DK - PvE
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheHsN wrote: »
    Witar wrote: »
    Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.

    sorcs DIDNT GET ANY BUFFFFFFFFFFFFF
    thy even didnt take anything........
    curse is again same.............nobody wait it to cast till 8.5 sec.... so it is same

    nlything destro staff....and it is to all magicka classses

    so sorc didnt get anything changed buff or nerf in this F....ccing PATCHHHHH

    They didn't need a buff thats why.

    Pets got buffed

    Destro got buffed

    Curse got buffed.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    ✭✭
    TheHsN wrote: »
    Witar wrote: »
    Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.

    sorcs DIDNT GET ANY BUFFFFFFFFFFFFF
    thy even didnt take anything........
    curse is again same.............nobody wait it to cast till 8.5 sec.... so it is same

    nlything destro staff....and it is to all magicka classses

    so sorc didnt get anything changed buff or nerf in this F....ccing PATCHHHHH

    Sorcs didn't need a buff. They are perfectly fine and will be even better.
    The Curse change is a straight up buff to DPS and sustain.
    The pet changes are a clear buff.
    I think sorcs are the only class that didn't get screwed by the patch notes.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
    #MoreDPSthanYou
    #Stamblade
  • brandonv516
    brandonv516
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    ✭✭✭
    zammo wrote: »
    Summon Shade: The shade summoned by this ability and its morphs now more closely match your racial appearance for Argonian and Khajiit player characters, and will now immediately aggro and attack your target if you cast this while you are out of combat.
    • Note that the ability activation still requires a valid target.

    I know it's a few weeks down the line now, but just want to revisit this one as it's probably the one that bothers me the most; particularly the targeting aspect of it. It could be used so much more strategically without having to target an enemy, not to mention the immediate aggro destroys any kind of advantage gained through stealth. The fact that the patch note mentions the skill still needing a valid target kinda suggests there's some thought gone into it, so some dev feedback on it would be good :)

    I have to second this. Going forward this needs to be looked at.
  • mr_wazzabi
    mr_wazzabi
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    Please revert strife nerf
    Bosmer Stamina NB
    Altmer Magicka TEMP
    Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
    Altmer Magicka NB
    Breton Magicka Sorc
    Redguard Stam Sorc
    Max CP
  • Witar
    Witar
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    I can deal with shade nerfs. Don't know why it was nerfed in the first place (wrobel got rekt on his stamsorc by nightblades way too often i guess). Strife nerf is still beyond me. Way too ***.
    Edited by Witar on February 3, 2017 2:08PM
    It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
    Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
    It lies behind stars and under hills,
    And empty holes it fills,
    It comes first and follows after,
    Ends life, kills laughter.
  • Mordenkainen
    Mordenkainen
    ✭✭✭✭
    Witar wrote: »
    I can deal with shade nerfs. Don't know why it was nerfed in the first place (wrobel got rekt on his stamsorc by nightblades way too often i guess). Strife nerf is still beyond me. Way too ***.

    Being blunt here, Shade being nerfed is just as *** as the Strife nerf.


    Shade is essentially a fancier looking but terrible damage over time effect. The damage CAN be ''alright'', if there weren't a million AI and pathing issues with the Shades.

    As for Strife.. the cost increase is just plain stupid. Strife/Funnel Health/Swallow Soul is also one of the main abilities for magicka NBs to deal damage. In other words, making them breathe their magicka like that will flatout destroy the play style, because we can use Force Crush instead to be more effective... now why even bother playing a NB at that rate even? Force Crush is available to all classes because it's a weapon skill.

    Here's my idea for Strife and it's Morphs. Instead of increasing the cost by 38%, the damage should be increased by 15% - 20%, but reduce the healing it causes from 26% 2/s to 19% 2/s

    That way viability in PvE is preserved or restored rather and in PvP no one can yell the heal is over the top.

    I'm getting so tired of Stamina everything for NBs.

    And I'll say it again; Give Agony a morph that applies the DoT instantly against targets immune to CC. That way it can function as useful ability in PvE against boss monsters instead of doing absolutely NOTHING to them.

    I imagine that morph could also serve for some more interesting outcomes in PvP. But as it stands currently, Agony is only useful for PvP to annoy someone by rooting them and/or screw their stamina management up. It's next to useless in PvE as I have yet to see a group in a dungeon to call CCs on certain mobs. The dangerous mobs are immune to it anyway.

    Putting it more directly; Nightblades have one skill less at their disposal compared to other classes in PVE.
    Edited by Mordenkainen on February 4, 2017 8:41PM
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