PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements

RinaldoGandolphi

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sorcs, and NBs are known for their burst; which is why I can justify them not having Major Mending, but when they start making other classes hit harder, and nerf NBs burst capabilities; it further worsens the balance in this game.

As far as comparing Incap with overload; overload you can spam repeatedly, Incap you can only do once every 24 seconds (70 cost). When you compare the two, and realize that overload hits harder Incap should receive a buff if anything (not actually suggesting this).

You know what ult does too much damage? Soul Assault.

In reference to stealth damage, I would love for them to remove the stealth damage bonus from PvP. That way people will stop whining about being ganked by Incap.

Yes or just toning it down a bit. You understand what i was referring too, good deal. I would rather them tone down stealth damage then nerf Incapacitating Strike honestly. If stealth damage wasn't so off the chart Incap would be fine on its own.

Strider_Roshin

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sorcs, and NBs are known for their burst; which is why I can justify them not having Major Mending, but when they start making other classes hit harder, and nerf NBs burst capabilities; it further worsens the balance in this game.

As far as comparing Incap with overload; overload you can spam repeatedly, Incap you can only do once every 24 seconds (70 cost). When you compare the two, and realize that overload hits harder Incap should receive a buff if anything (not actually suggesting this).

You know what ult does too much damage? Soul Assault.

In reference to stealth damage, I would love for them to remove the stealth damage bonus from PvP. That way people will stop whining about being ganked by Incap.

Yes or just toning it down a bit. You understand what i was referring too, good deal. I would rather them tone down stealth damage then nerf Incapacitating Strike honestly. If stealth damage wasn't so off the chart Incap would be fine on its own.

Could not agree more, although I wouldn't be opposed to them removing the stun, and replace it with something a little more PvE friendly, but that's me. There's a reason why I always used Soul Harvest over Incap back in the day.

CubanRay

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

CubanRay wrote: »

Every time that pvp needs a nerf pve got screwed,maybe nerfing the stealth crit could help.
I tested Ambush the other day,normal attack vs stealth and the difference is huge,they need to revalue this.
Using the skill Incap normally doesn't seems op to me.

Your right

Using Incapacitating Strike not from stealth is fine

When you use Ambush or Magelight to Empower it on top of Major Weapon Damage buff, and high crit and lots of Crit points and Shadow Stone it hits like a train. Watch Scribes or the other big gankers and watch how much HP a single Incap takes from someone from stealth.

Honestly, I think Stealth damage needs to be toned down more then Incapacitating Strike itself needs nerfed. I think they need to just put a reasonable cap on how much damage you can do from stealth...your already getting a free stun just by hitting them from crouch.

If you get ganked by guys like Scribes and their extremely high damage builds you won't have any chance for counterplay.

^^^ This
I don't know much about pvp but I can see myself doing something like cloak+stealth+DW daggers+nb passives+Gear+incap. Yea a lot of crits and damage.But I agree,the root of this issues is the stealth crit and not incap imo.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

IC is fine. If you look at the amount of kit other classes bring I'm fine with having something to use against the new heavy armor 70k HP meta. The number 1 reason people complain about it is after they get ganked by it. Rarely are there many players complaining about it in a fair fight. It's cheap but also easily dodgable. I know how annoying it is to be ganked by a heavy attack with ani cancel to an IC. It HURTS! But that's not an IC problem it's another issue. I can do darn near the same thing with dawn breaker of smiling. Especially if you specifically make a build geared towards ganking. But pure ganking builds are ONLY good at ganking. I'm sure everytime you beat an NB you talk mad smack but when you die to a ganker you instantly blame IC and how "OP" it is. Again, I feel your pain as I have been ganked before too but I don't go looking for a nerf.

Lucky28

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

No mention of the strife nerf despite the displeasure from the nb community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

Disappointed

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Spectral bow hits harder than Incap, and it only costs 4 light attacks. Incap is also stupid easy to avoid/block. Also Overload hits harder, and is now cheaper. Incap was fine at 50. The only thing I would change about it would be to get rid of the stun, and just increase the damage buff duration.

Assassin's will also has a 4 light attack requirement before you launch the "Boom" so Assassin's Will is actually balanced.

Not if the enemy uses shuffle and dodge rolls a lot. Those 4 light attacks turn into 0 or 1, meaning no spectral bow to fire.

that is why it's balanced tho. if ZoS changes it to make it "easier to use" merciless is gonna end up getting nerfed. which is why i don't want them to touch it.

But sorcs are balanced? Turn on shields and crystal frag? Remember that frags have a knockdown. Spectral bow is damage only with no cc. The sorc crystal frag knockdown into fury is usually what kills me

i can hit almost 20K merciless is PvP. c-frags don't come close.

if it where easier to use it would get nerfed.

TheHsN

1- FOR SURE need to BUFF Conceal Weapons damage and lotus FUN
2- FOR SURE need more sustain for MAGNB ...or reduce costs of SKILSS....


MAGNB need some love

SirSocke

The whole NB class needs some love, not magicka only.

H4RDFOX

The idea to nerf stealth damage would further burn NB class to ashes. Its a DPS class that isn't up to par with DK's tankage, and Templar healing, and lets not forget their damage as well. Especially with the buffs the DK's received in the latest pts patch. Not all pvp junkies want to sit there and play with their food for minutes on end. Dualists should push for arena, or the like for their dueling needs. We don't like the enemy, therefore an attack from stealth is the preferred ASSASSIN method, in and out quickly. All this nerf talk is just treating symptoms IMHO, the issue is stacking abilities from different skill lines that grant major buffs, and passives. Something I think was not expected.

Buff one class, buff them all, nerf one, nerf them all, that's fair.

Izaki

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

No mention of the strife nerf despite the displeasure from the nb community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

Disappointed

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Spectral bow hits harder than Incap, and it only costs 4 light attacks. Incap is also stupid easy to avoid/block. Also Overload hits harder, and is now cheaper. Incap was fine at 50. The only thing I would change about it would be to get rid of the stun, and just increase the damage buff duration.

Assassin's will also has a 4 light attack requirement before you launch the "Boom" so Assassin's Will is actually balanced.

Not if the enemy uses shuffle and dodge rolls a lot. Those 4 light attacks turn into 0 or 1, meaning no spectral bow to fire.

This last part is false btw, even if the attacks get dodged they are still accounted for.

bodidharma99

 rougetoaster45 said on January 16, 2017 :

Well I hate to bring the News, but if the patch stays like that, Stamblade will most likely be the worst possible choice for endgame PvE.

Would you mind elaborating?

Is it all Stam Classes with the next patch or just NBs specifically?

What’s the rankings after the next patch? (current ~Sorcs were 1, NBs 2, DKs 3, and Stamplars 15)

5 days, 15 hours ago

QuoteReply#3

Jeckll

Grandmaster

Total Posts: 1975

Redguard Nightblade

Jianji

 InfiniteXavier said on January 19, 2017 :

Would you mind elaborating?

Is it all Stam Classes with the next patch or just NBs specifically?

What’s the rankings after the next patch? (current ~Sorcs were 1, NBs 2, DKs 3, and Stamplars 15)

The nerf to crit damage modifiers in general hurts nb the most as we have the highest crit chance due to passives. The Major Force change specifically hurts nb and templar more than dk and sorc, because we have a 10% higher crit damage modifier, so we had a higher benefit from the multiplicative nature of Major Force.

Other than that, Stamina was already in a pretty weak spot in competitive raids. Stam Sorc and Stam DK were able to pull impressive Single Target Dps but magicka outperformed in AoE and survivability. With Update 13, magicka will have the same Single Target dps and still be superior in AoE and survival.

Its just much better to have a raid with only magicka users for hard mode trials specifically.

In terms of power ranks, I cant really forsee how magicka sustain will work. Most likely, kena will be bis again and with the introduction of minor magicka steal, I dont know which class will be able to sustain.

In general, Stam nb and Stam templar will be the absolute bottom of the dps ranking.
...
the above was said by jeckll in his stamblade build forum.

why nerf a class that was already at the bottom and never needed in vmol?

RinaldoGandolphi

As i said earlier, i'd rather them tone down stealth damage then to nerf Incapacitating Strike, as Incap on its own is probably fine the way it is.

Stealth damage is simply off the charts, you can do like 30k worth if instant damage on someone(counting Viper) that anyone below 30k health is insta-killed with no counterplay...i don't think that is healthy for the game at all. As much as i disagree with Miat's PVP addon, as misguided as I think it is, it was created specifically because there is no counterplay to this.

Im not one who just wants to take with no giving anythign back. You give Nightblades better DPS/Burst outside of crouch, and give them some class passives to help their survivability so they are not so squishy(Major Mending would be good)

Also, the tank meta is out of control too and needs to be toned down every bit as much as stealth damage does. I see both sides of this, and both of them are broken. The majority of these Templar tanks can't be killed without Root spam +Negate.....thats simply broken. However you can't change stealth without toning down tanks.

I just don't think ZOS really understands how powerful stealth is in this game. Let them go into Cyrodiil and be insta-killed a few times at 30k or less health and it might get adjusted. Even Call of Duty has a lower time to kill then that, and its a first person twitch shooter.

aeowulf

Thing is stealth isn't just a NB thing - we just have it easier. Anyone can crouch or use pots...

Strider_Roshin

aeowulf wrote: »

Thing is stealth isn't just a NB thing - we just have it easier. Anyone can crouch or use pots...

Yeah but Nightblades get a WD/SD bonus of 10%, and 400-500 more weapon damage is quite significant.

Edziu

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Thing is stealth isn't just a NB thing - we just have it easier. Anyone can crouch or use pots...

Yeah but Nightblades get a WD/SD bonus of 10%, and 400-500 more weapon damage is quite significant.

like quite significant is dk and templar and stam sorc tankly in compare to nb or mag sorc

we have least significiant bonus for being tankly to be still able kill someone

EDIT: and you can see 95% of today stamblades are only gangers because open fight is almost impossible for this squishy class.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Edziu wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Thing is stealth isn't just a NB thing - we just have it easier. Anyone can crouch or use pots...

Yeah but Nightblades get a WD/SD bonus of 10%, and 400-500 more weapon damage is quite significant.

like quite significant is dk and templar and stam sorc tankly in compare to nb or mag sorc

we have least significiant bonus for being tankly to be still able kill someone

EDIT: and you can see 95% of today stamblades are only gangers because open fight is almost impossible for this squishy class.

This is a good point honestly. I see templars, DK's, and even sorcs being able to handle several people at the same time but NB's having to jump through hoops to do so. NB thrives on Los while the other classes can open field 1vX way better. I'm fine with using LoS, what I'm saying here is some classes are better at some things than other. Don't nerf one class without looking at what other classes are doing so well. I'm honestly against 90% of nerds anyways. I wasn't a fan of the streak nerf. I wasn't a fan of the floppy wings nerf or dragons blood nerf. Heck, radiant oppression didn't even need a nerf (just gap close and bash). People are nerf crazy just because they would rather complain about a skill than learn to counter it. Being ganged is hard to counter I get it. But you have access to 3 different skills that allow you to see stealth ed enemies and now an add on that let's you know somone is around. There is NO reason to complain about getting ganged by an NB using IC.

Strider_Roshin

Edziu wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Thing is stealth isn't just a NB thing - we just have it easier. Anyone can crouch or use pots...

Yeah but Nightblades get a WD/SD bonus of 10%, and 400-500 more weapon damage is quite significant.

like quite significant is dk and templar and stam sorc tankly in compare to nb or mag sorc

we have least significiant bonus for being tankly to be still able kill someone

EDIT: and you can see 95% of today stamblades are only gangers because open fight is almost impossible for this squishy class.

I 100% agree. This is why I want them to remove the stealth damage bonus, that way the community would stop whining, and it will reveal the true state stamblades are in. Which I'm not saying they're bad, but they do need a little attention, and that's not going to happen as long as people keep having this kind of crap happen to them.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=NmbMF09aCZM

arkansas_ESO

Lucky28 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

No mention of the strife nerf despite the displeasure from the nb community.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

Disappointed

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Spectral bow hits harder than Incap, and it only costs 4 light attacks. Incap is also stupid easy to avoid/block. Also Overload hits harder, and is now cheaper. Incap was fine at 50. The only thing I would change about it would be to get rid of the stun, and just increase the damage buff duration.

Assassin's will also has a 4 light attack requirement before you launch the "Boom" so Assassin's Will is actually balanced.

Not if the enemy uses shuffle and dodge rolls a lot. Those 4 light attacks turn into 0 or 1, meaning no spectral bow to fire.

that is why it's balanced tho. if ZoS changes it to make it "easier to use" merciless is gonna end up getting nerfed. which is why i don't want them to touch it.

But sorcs are balanced? Turn on shields and crystal frag? Remember that frags have a knockdown. Spectral bow is damage only with no cc. The sorc crystal frag knockdown into fury is usually what kills me

i can hit almost 20K merciless is PvP. c-frags don't come close.

if it where easier to use it would get nerfed.

You can get Crystal Fragments to hit almost as hard:



(From this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/310606/new-tamriel-record-12-26-2016 )

Keep in mind that, due to the way the sorcerer's skills are set up, you can have a Velocious Curse, Crystal Fragments, and an Endless Fury Explosion proc hit within the same global cooldown period. Assuming that a curse hits for 4k, and an Explosion for 6k, that's 28k damage in one GCD from the sorcerer versus 20k from the NB (this is assuming the sorc doesn't get lucky with an Implosion proc, which is another 8k damage).

Edziu

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

aeowulf wrote: »

Thing is stealth isn't just a NB thing - we just have it easier. Anyone can crouch or use pots...

Yeah but Nightblades get a WD/SD bonus of 10%, and 400-500 more weapon damage is quite significant.

like quite significant is dk and templar and stam sorc tankly in compare to nb or mag sorc

we have least significiant bonus for being tankly to be still able kill someone

EDIT: and you can see 95% of today stamblades are only gangers because open fight is almost impossible for this squishy class.

I 100% agree. This is why I want them to remove the stealth damage bonus, that way the community would stop whining, and it will reveal the true state stamblades are in. Which I'm not saying they're bad, but they do need a little attention, and that's not going to happen as long as people keep having this kind of crap happen to them.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=NmbMF09aCZM

lol those 1hits xD
so finally 2h ult is op just because all resists ignore and in tooltip on me I see its almost 2x more damage from surpise attack so as I see problem with this 1shoting is just this ulti damage op used by nb in stealth

kojou

In general people are really whiny about dying... I don't see what the big deal is unless someone is cheating. People should try to figure out what they are doing wrong rather than blaming this set bonus or that skill.

If I get ganked in the open by a Nightblade then it was probably my fault for not staying with the group, or because I let my buffs go down... I personally think it is a mostly healthy style of play that keeps you on your guard and adds to the adrenaline rush of playing PvP.

Would players rather we all lined up on bright red, blue, and yellow coats and fired on each other like 18th century combat was? None of this sneaking around business...

I don't think stealth play should get a nerf.

the_man_of_steal

I can no longer stay silent on the horrific changes and nerfs magicka builds have gotten in the past few patches. Our mag costs was doubled across the board without telling us, light attack weaving is horrible due to us not being able to spec into weapon damage, and now it seems dual wield is also being nerfed!?! This is RIDICULOUS. Why are you forcing magicka builds to be destro resto when you are encouraging tanks to go ice staff!?!! These have been completely inconstant changes and they are nonsensical to add insult to injury!

Stam classes are all the same... rally, shuffle, vigor, dawnbreaker

Mag classes have less DPS, poor regen, and we are squishy AF but at least we WERE diverse!

Why are you @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert making magicka less diverse and lowering our DPS while simultaneously keeping stam less diverse and increasing their dps while keeping their survivability up!?

SirSocke

???

mr_wazzabi

Revert strife nerf please

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

kojou

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

I can no longer stay silent on the horrific changes and nerfs magicka builds have gotten in the past few patches. Our mag costs was doubled across the board without telling us, light attack weaving is horrible due to us not being able to spec into weapon damage, and now it seems dual wield is also being nerfed!?! This is RIDICULOUS. Why are you forcing magicka builds to be destro resto when you are encouraging tanks to go ice staff!?!! These have been completely inconstant changes and they are nonsensical to add insult to injury!

Stam classes are all the same... rally, shuffle, vigor, dawnbreaker

Mag classes have less DPS, poor regen, and we are squishy AF but at least we WERE diverse!

Why are you @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert making magicka less diverse and lowering our DPS while simultaneously keeping stam less diverse and increasing their dps while keeping their survivability up!?

I assume you are referring to the Strife cost increase and the reduction of Spell/Weapon damage of dual wield?

I don't think there were any "across the board" increases, but maybe I missed something...

Also if anything we are more encouraged to be Destro/Destro (Fire/Lightning) rather than Destro/Restro and Dual Wield still has more spell damage than staves + the increase damage passive for swords. As far as I know damage-wise it is about the same or stronger than a Destro and has the added bonus of 2 set pieces.

As far as sustain goes, some classes have it worse than others, but Elemental Drain, Potions, and Siphoning Strikes will keep Magicka Nightblades afloat resource wise.

The bigger problem IMO is that Nightblades don't have the strength or array of skills that other classes have, so it is getting harder and harder to get a Nightblade in on a good progression raid, because of the perceived lack of damage and utility compared to other classes.

Strider_Roshin

You know the balance is bad when the class that has the most healing received, major mending, and huge spell resistance passively; also has the most DPS.

Why is it perfectly acceptable that the squishiest class in the game, also has the worst DPS.

Both stamblades, and magblades need a significant DPS buff. This is just ridiculous.

CubanRay

Nerf without limits.

LegacyDM

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

I can no longer stay silent on the horrific changes and nerfs magicka builds have gotten in the past few patches. Our mag costs was doubled across the board without telling us, light attack weaving is horrible due to us not being able to spec into weapon damage, and now it seems dual wield is also being nerfed!?! This is RIDICULOUS. Why are you forcing magicka builds to be destro resto when you are encouraging tanks to go ice staff!?!! These have been completely inconstant changes and they are nonsensical to add insult to injury!

Stam classes are all the same... rally, shuffle, vigor, dawnbreaker

Mag classes have less DPS, poor regen, and we are squishy AF but at least we WERE diverse!

Why are you @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert making magicka less diverse and lowering our DPS while simultaneously keeping stam less diverse and increasing their dps while keeping their survivability up!?

Also if anything we are more encouraged to be Destro/Destro (Fire/Lightning) rather than Destro/Restro and Dual Wield still has more spell damage than staves + the increase damage passive for swords. As far as I know damage-wise it is about the same or stronger than a Destro and has the added bonus of 2 set pieces.

No. Dual wield is not stronger or same as destro. Please don't spread misinformation. 1. Your not factoring in weaving and animation canceling light attacks. With a fire staff you can hit like a truck weaving fire staff la from range. 2. Force pulse hits harder than strife. 3. in the pts they changed it so that if you wield a fire staff you gain an 8% increase to all single target direct damage skills. 8% > 5% and between weaving la and force pulse that > than extra spell damage obtained from second equipped weapon. 4. Duel wielders aren't procing assassins will like a destro wielder.

Now I'll give you that you can wear 2 set bonus but from a damage perspective there is no extra set bonus that comes close to Compensating the fact you lose the ability to weave la, cast eots, and proc assassins will from range.

Forum warriors have already done the math. Fire staff > output than dual wield by a long shot.

And now with the cost nerf to strife there is absolutely no reason to play a duel wield mageblade. No. The meta will be fire staff/force pulse/eots/light attacks/assassins will. They have successfully killed duel wielders because concealed weapon hits like s noodle, lose la, lose eots, buff to fire staff, and cost increase to strife and soul harvest. Also a duel wielder is not likely to be procing assassins will like a staff user.

So why would anyone go magicka melee nb? Damage is extremely subpar.

LegacyDM

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Any word yet on why strife cost was increased? Is this actually going to go through to live with no dev feedback provided?

Witar

Strife cost needs to be reversed or damage increased. Small healing decrease is ok in second case.

Devilhand

Please nerf/fix this...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=t4dyYJo9FXg

I mean, whats the point of PVP in this game if you can literally get 1 shooted? 35k unresist dmg from sthealth... LOL (And if you check Blobs video, you see he hits 35K on a 32k health heavy armour tank full cp)

I quit using proc sets on my Stam NB beacuse was way to easy to brun people down, and still im having lot of fun. Their damage output is fine as long you know how to sustain.
I do understand its probably the "gankers" class, but whats the point of pvp if you cant even react?
Thanks to this youtube streamers we will start to see this kind of skill less builds everywhere in cyrodill, like in the current live game with Viper/Selene or Veli or Tremor/Alchemist/Poisons.

Strider_Roshin

Devilhand wrote: »

Please nerf/fix this...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=t4dyYJo9FXg

I mean, whats the point of PVP in this game if you can literally get 1 shooted? 35k unresist dmg from sthealth... LOL (And if you check Blobs video, you see he hits 35K on a 32k health heavy armour tank full cp)

I quit using proc sets on my Stam NB beacuse was way to easy to brun people down, and still im having lot of fun. Their damage output is fine as long you know how to sustain.
I do understand its probably the "gankers" class, but whats the point of pvp if you cant even react?
Thanks to this youtube streamers we will start to see this kind of skill less builds everywhere in cyrodill, like in the current live game with Viper/Selene or Veli or Tremor/Alchemist/Poisons.

It's a stealth damage issue. That's why they shouldn't have nerfed Death Stroke. The change was misguided, and should be reverted.