I have 600+ CP and I got kicked from NORMAL Elden Hollow II (on a lvl 41 alt)

Taylor_MB

I'm the type of pugger who happily solo's Skoria Vet HM with zero platforms for lower CP players, it blows their mind, makes me feel good (simple pleasure) and I can do it without much difficulty, so I do it. I like to think I'm pretty tolerant to new or under geared / skilled / cp'd players.

So yesterday I was put in a random normal (BC II) with 2 non-vets and a CP 90ish, I was assigned healer. The only group chat in the whole dungeon is screen captured below. Outline of what was happening at each message:
• The "come on, wtf" messages were because apparently we were being too slow and the tank (Beastmode, the CP 90ish guy) died to trash mobs before we caught up.
• The tank complaining about healing himself 4 times was during the first mini boss fight. He was using healing ritual (templar 1.5sec heal) so I already had a healing ward on him and dropped a healing springs while he was still casting. It's normal BC II, there are no unpredictable high damages, so I was not rushing to keep everyone at 100%, spending plenty of time easily doing the most dps (not that I cared about the others dps, I was having fun testing my rotation).
• "ur kicked bro" is obviously when he voted to kick me and I played it all nonchalant. Thankfully at least one of the others voted no. He initiated the vote to kick because this time I went too fast (he was complaining about us being too slow before) and agro'd a mob. A few of the mob ignored me and went to the other 3 back at the last boss, took me a while to solo the mob, but I saw them wipe (on the group HP frame thing) to the 2-4 mobs I didn't have agro on.
• Final battle went alright....... all 3 of them had both DoT's on them by the end of the fight, which was fine, it's not that big on non-vet. Beastmode got the others so scared they could not even admit to it being their first time so I didn't explain mechanics.

[Snip]

So just now I had the pleasure of being grouped with this character again for Elden Hollow II, again I was qued as healer (I didn't notice until he started talking ***, no screen capture cause I crashed after being kicked). This group was a 561 dps, non-vet dps, Beastmode as tank and my lvl 41 as heals. So we make it to the first boss, Beastmode dies almost immediately while I was focused on clearing the ads (cause he just went balls deep to the boss straight away). I don't like to disparage other people's builds, but he has VERY little resists, most of the time just spams jabs and doesn't use SnB to block and by the amount of damage he takes is probably not wearing heavy armour.

So I didn't look at him for about 5 seconds and he's dead. He gets rez, we finish the two bosses that spawn at same place easily with all the ads already dead. He's still talking *** about me group chat, but I just ignore and move onto next trash mob, part way through that fight I get kicked from the group.

---

I honestly have no idea why I've bothered sharing this story, I'm just so shocked that:
a) Anyone would kick people from a normal non-dlc dungeon
b) That a 561CP player would vote to kick me from a dungeon they should be able to solo in like 15 minutes just because someone else was being an ass.

I'm just a little disappointed and sad

---

I main PvP, I'm very use to people *** talking, but getting this while PvE'ing is always a shock, normal dungeon is literally the lowest skill group content there is.

[Edit for name and shame]

Takes-No-Prisoner

I mainly PVP as well. Haven't had the issue of people being like this. Best thing to do, in this situation, is not give him reason to judge you by typing a response. If you know you're being good at healing and supporting, that is all that really matters. If you get kicked for that, well just shrug it off. It's no biggie.

Unsent.Soul

I'd alter your SS to black out names, naming and shaming is bad. Also, haven't we had enough of these threads? We get it, some people are jerks or stupid, no reason to run to the forums everytime someone doesn't treat you fairly.

Taylor_MB

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

I'd alter your SS to black out names, naming and shaming is bad. Also, haven't we had enough of these threads? We get it, some people are jerks or stupid, no reason to run to the forums everytime someone doesn't treat you fairly.

Is it shaming though if they are not ashamed of what they said?

Yeah, probably has been enough threads.

akl77

The dungeons mainly depends on DPS, if you got good DPS, tank and heal doesn't really matter. But there are a lot of 561 dps that's putting out level 10 dps, I'm not Kidding. With those crap DPS, either you gotta heal none stop every second forever, or they just gonna keeps dying. In your case, they keeps dying, hence they are angry and wanna blame the healer, but in fact it's the crap DPS's fault.

SneaK

His name makes it that much better.

On a side note I had an opposite experience this weekend. I pugged an Engine Guardian run on my non-vet Stamplar, and ended up coaching 3 CP guys through it.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Hehe you got kicked by someone using ritual. That is fantastic.

VinyParsley2016

Taylor_MB wrote: »

I'm the type of pugger who happily solo's Skoria Vet HM with zero platforms for lower CP players, it blows their mind, makes me feel good (simple pleasure) and I can do it without much difficulty, so I do it. I like to think I'm pretty tolerant to new or under geared / skilled / cp'd players.

So yesterday I was put in a random normal (BC II) with 2 non-vets and a CP 90ish, I was assigned healer. The only group chat in the whole dungeon is screen captured below. Outline of what was happening at each message:
• The "come on, wtf" messages were because apparently we were being too slow and the tank (Beastmode, the CP 90ish guy) died to trash mobs before we caught up.
• The tank complaining about healing himself 4 times was during the first mini boss fight. He was using healing ritual (templar 1.5sec heal) so I already had a healing ward on him and dropped a healing springs while he was still casting. It's normal BC II, there are no unpredictable high damages, so I was not rushing to keep everyone at 100%, spending plenty of time easily doing the most dps (not that I cared about the others dps, I was having fun testing my rotation).
• "ur kicked bro" is obviously when he voted to kick me and I played it all nonchalant. Thankfully at least one of the others voted no. He initiated the vote to kick because this time I went too fast (he was complaining about us being too slow before) and agro'd a mob. A few of the mob ignored me and went to the other 3 back at the last boss, took me a while to solo the mob, but I saw them wipe (on the group HP frame thing) to the 2-4 mobs I didn't have agro on.
• Final battle went alright....... all 3 of them had both DoT's on them by the end of the fight, which was fine, it's not that big on non-vet. Beastmode got the others so scared they could not even admit to it being their first time so I didn't explain mechanics.



So just now I had the pleasure of being grouped with this character again for Elden Hollow II, again I was qued as healer (I didn't notice until he started talking ***, no screen capture cause I crashed after being kicked). This group was a 561 dps, non-vet dps, Beastmode as tank and my lvl 41 as heals. So we make it to the first boss, Beastmode dies almost immediately while I was focused on clearing the ads (cause he just went balls deep to the boss straight away). I don't like to disparage other people's builds, but he has VERY little resists, most of the time just spams jabs and doesn't use SnB to block and by the amount of damage he takes is probably not wearing heavy armour.

So I didn't look at him for about 5 seconds and he's dead. He gets rez, we finish the two bosses that spawn at same place easily with all the ads already dead. He's still talking *** about me group chat, but I just ignore and move onto next trash mob, part way through that fight I get kicked from the group.

---

I honestly have no idea why I've bothered sharing this story, I'm just so shocked that:
a) Anyone would kick people from a normal non-dlc dungeon
b) That a 561CP player would vote to kick me from a dungeon they should be able to solo in like 15 minutes just because someone else was being an ass.

I'm just a little disappointed and sad

---

I main PvP, I'm very use to people *** talking, but getting this while PvE'ing is always a shock, normal dungeon is literally the lowest skill group content there is.

Now, you know how evil those lowbies are! You should kick 10 lowbies everyday as revenge. No mercy, no tolerant to lowbies, I always say.

svartorn

Pre-emptively put this beastmode guy on ignore. I hope I never see him!

WhiteMage

I don't normally do this (because you often instagib me in azuras) but I'm going to take this moment to support you in your rage against noobs who put their failings off onto someone else.

If I see him in azuras, I'll gank him for you.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

I know it sucks, it's always the terrible players in normal dungeons who vote to kick.
Myself (multiple flawless conqueror) pug often in normal dungeons and usually it's the nooby players who try stir trouble. The good ones can like you said pretty much solo it so not to bothered.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

His name: BEAST MODE ****
What a typical name for said behaviour.

Taylor_MB

WhiteMage wrote: »

I don't normally do this (because you often instagib me in azuras) but I'm going to take this moment to support you in your rage against noobs who put their failings off onto someone else.

If I see him in azuras, I'll gank him for you.

You are very kind, you have received 2 "get out of gank free" cards

BigBragg

First rule of PUGs: No matter what happens, it's always the healers fault.

Tank couldn't hold agro? Healers fault.
DPS couldn't kill a fly? Healers fault.
Godzilla destroyed Tokyo? Healers fault.

Jeremy

BigBragg wrote: »

First rule of PUGs: No matter what happens, it's always the healers fault.

Tank couldn't hold agro? Healers fault.
DPS couldn't kill a fly? Healers fault.
Godzilla destroyed Tokyo? Healers fault.

Sometimes crappy groups do like to scapegoat the healer.

My most memorable example was Selene's Web - the tank couldn't dodge the green bear move and kept getting killed. That was supposedly my fault (the healer) because I wasn't using shards often enough....

Defilted

The best part on the Selene's fight you can just move without dodge rolling to avoid... I need shards to move the left stick...lol

GreenhaloX

Ha ha, yeah, it's rare to read about a player with way lower level toon voting or kicking out a players who is maxed out. Normally, it's the other way around where the lower level players are being voted out. That always blow when someone is voted to be kicked out or kick out just because someone doesn't like someone else in the group for whatever reason. Goes with the territory of random group and queuing. Not all bad, though. There are plenty of good random groups that come together. Seems you got a black sheep of a player in this one who doesn't weigh much on teamwork. Great to have a healer, always support and welcome them, but I rarely rely solely on healers during dungeons or trials. I constantly also use my own self-heal, particularly in vet dungeons and trials. Healers are great, but others should have their own self-heal too. When the healer goes down, and before being revived, then you have to use your self-heal.

Yes, it is just human nature to feel rejected or defensive when someone else wrongs you in any way, but don't sweat it too much. You know who you are as a player and know your toon's ability. Just laugh at it and move on. Most likely that player is not as experienced and will learn the more he's on ESO that teamwork and everyone counts when all are contributing.. or perhaps not. There are plenty of group that does fine.

Yeah, I'm 561 (well really just hitting 700), and was in a lower level random group in the vet Elden Hollow 2 yesterday where the healer was her first time and about 109 CP. The other two in the group were all under 150 CP as well. We completed and beat Bogan just fine. Wiped a couple time against Bogan (particularly when I mistaking fell off the ledge), but I didn't complain that they were much lower in CP going against Bogan in vet hard mode. They may not have resistance or damage output as normally for such vet dungeon, and I was surprised when first entered that dungeon, but we kept at it and beat him. No one complained or voted anyone to be kicked. Well, I'm sure some other 561s would've either left in the beginning or spamming vote to kick those other lower players.

Enslaved

BigBragg wrote: »

First rule of PUGs: No matter what happens, it's always the healers fault.

Tank couldn't hold agro? Healers fault.
DPS couldn't kill a fly? Healers fault.
Godzilla destroyed Tokyo? Healers fault.

Not when I do the tanking.
Last time I failed agro was back in 1995.

Jimbullbee85

Its pointless [SNIp] allowing the negativity to dominate the gaming experience. We run into A'holes everyday in real life. Only difference with social gaming is that you can't slap them.

[Edited for profanity]

NewBlacksmurf

Prob best if character levels and CP levels were removed from being visible to other player so.

Just saying if it's One tamriel....then let's go all the way

Now we should be able to see own levels but .....no idea why ZOS is not removing the problems created with VR and now CP
But now it needs to remove all shown to other players cause at the end of the day, it's observing cause and effects

kylewwefan

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest maybe you should que as a DPS. Your doing the most damage and so busy killing mobs that you let your tank die. A lot.

lehran

kylewwefan wrote: »

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest maybe you should que as a DPS. Your doing the most damage and so busy killing mobs that you let your tank die. A lot.

Hard to tell who is at fault for that. Tank dying a lot can just as easily be the tank's fault rather than the healer's (imo, it's more often the tank's fault):

• Tank didn't have good enough resists
• Tank didn't have enough hp to survive heavy attacks (sometimes you just aren't able to block them all, due to missing cues, being stunned right before it lands, or being out of stamina right at that exact moment)
• Tank was standing in red/fire (sometimes necessary for positioning e.g. the Maw of the Infernal fight in BCII, but if your hp is dropping like mad, get out of it) or stood in front of a oneshot mechanic instead of getting out of it (like Selene's bear)
• Tank was too far away from the healer (likely shared blame here)
• Healer wasn't paying attention to tank's hp and let it drop, not giving hot/burst heals as needed

Of the 5 reasons I listed, 3 are the tank's fault, 1 is the healer's fault, and 1 can likely be shared between both. I'm having a hard time coming up with other reasons that a tank may die, so I think the above list is exhaustive. It shouldn't be the healer's job to ensure that the tank has appropriate sustain for stamina; it's always helpful when a shards gets tossed but shouldn't be a requirement (not every healer is a templar, after all). Tanks should ensure they build in enough stamina recovery or weave in medium/heavy attacks to restore stamina for the cases where the healer is unable to give them shards.

Edit: I main a tank, so the above reflects my own personal experiences with tanking. I'd say most of the times I die it's because I messed up somewhere and not because the healer was bad.

LadyNalcarya

I have 900 cps and can solo almost anything, even on low level alts, but was also kicked from groups for being a "low lvl noob" (when I reroll chars, I often do daily randoms for exp bonus and undaunted). And not just from dlc dungeons, once it happened in Fungal 1.
Well.. I can understand not taking fresh newbs without TS to dlc vets or hm pledges, but this is getting ridiculous these days. And I feel bad for new players.
P.S. Im still impressed there are "tanks" that can get oneshotted in normal dungeons.

SolarCat02

Once you are experienced with healing on your character it's easy to spot when it's the tank's issue and when it's the healer's issue in most situations. (Sometimes the quick deaths are tough to tell, usually it's because the tank missed a block and got one-shot but sometimes it is my fault. Like with Velidreth on veteran, sometimes the tank isn't dodging her debuff, sometimes I am not casting Purge often enough to cleanse from the balls. Sometimes it's not my fault or the tank's, like with the Mantikora in veteran Sanctum Ophidia, where anyone's failure to block results in the party getting a DoT).

Aside from tricky fights or some veteran trial situations, if the tank is difficult to heal, with health dipping all over the place, it is usually on the tank's end. Not enough resistance, taunting too much at once, not blocking, wrong bar/bar swap issues, lag, not managing resources... If the tank's health is usually pretty steady, though, then usually I missed something important. In those cases I always ask the tank if I could have prevented it. Always room to improve.

Jamini

A good tank will know, or learn, when it is their issue and when it is the healer.

My own personal test:

Am I seeing chip damage not getting quickly healed?
-Yes : The healer is relying too much on burst heals and not HoTting me. I may need to use vigor more often. Fight permitting.

Is my stamina running out?
-Yes
-Is my healer a Templar?
--Yes : I'm probably not getting shards or repentance reliably.
--No: I'm blocking unnecessary stuff and need to weave some heavy attacks and earthen heart buffs.

Am I dying to burst?
-Yes
-Can it be interrupted?
--Yes: My fault 100% I need to manage my stam better
-Can it be blocked/shielded/dodged?
--Yes
--Do I have chip damage from before?
---Yes: Healer isn't keeping HoTs up
---No: I dropped my guard. My fault
--Do I have stamina?
---No: My fault. My resources are my own responsibility
---Yes: My fault. I need to avoid the attack

Am I running out of magicka?
-Yes: My fault. I'm not pacing myself right.

Are other people dying?
-Yes
-Are the mobs taunted?
--Yes: Numbnut DD need to avoid AoE and the healer needs to heal DPS too.
--No: My fault.

DigitalShibby

CP needs to be private. It's so annoying how people mistakenly take high CP to = skill.
The majority of unskilled players / elitist players I've met are high CP and I constantly come across people below 300CP who say they are still grinding their way to 300 so they can finally access vet dungeons since multiple times they were kicked from groups and told to wait until at least 300CP to attempt vet content. The misinformation being spread is ridiculous. There is no benefit to seeing someone's CP, make them link achievements for dungeons if you care so much about finding "pro" players in zone chat.
I miss the days of VR16 with hidden CP.

Katahdin

This is why I wont pug anything until my character reaches level 50 so my CP will show. Too many people see that sub 50 level and auto kick.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Katahdin wrote: »

This is why I wont pug anything until my character reaches level 50 so my CP will show. Too many people see that sub 50 level and auto kick.

I did that and it put me in a strange place. I had never tanked before so i turned my dk into a tank. But not wanting to go in to early i waited until I was level 50 and had some gear. that put my at CP600ish with good gear tanking normals. I started in normals never having tanked in this game. I wanted to make sure i was doing it right.

The downside ended up being ive really learned nothing. Ive been through the dungeons all as dps and healer so i know the dungeons. And i am over leveled and over geared and there is next to nothing in a normal that can kill me. So i have no idea if i am actually doing it right.

Id say get in there and try. You will learn more. Sure some dumbo might kick you right off, but that aint no big thing.

O_LYKOS

It makes me so mad being kicked from a dungeon run. I mean, if im really doing that sh*t then fair enough. either help me or kick me.
But most of the time I join vet runs and get booted straight away, which obviously is simply because I'm not yet 561.

I 've voted to kick people before or just left a group. 2 reasons.

1 the healer literally does nothing except spam breath of life. 2 the tank just dies, and dies, and dies, because hes, well lets face it, not a tank.

I actually do not agree with the kick option. they should rework the dungeon group finder and split it in to level brackets and if you don't like it you can leave. but no option to kick others.

disintegr8

In normal dungeons my stam tanks do not rely on the healer for health or stamina and I will not blame a healer for my death. My DK tanks have over 30k health and at least 25k resistance and should be able to stay alive in any normal dungeon without a healers help. I believe the healers job is to keep the DD's going and throw me a lifeline only if an 'oh $#it' moment were to eventuate.

Sounds like this tank had poor health, poor resistance, was not blocking and was standing in red the whole time. I didn't see any mention of how much health he had but I have seen a huge influx of lower level people queuing as tanks with less than 20k health. This is one thing if you are CP561 and self sufficient but another altogether at lower levels and need a healer to stay alive.

And anyone rushing ahead of the group has no right to complain about poor support.

FearlessOne_2014

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

I'd alter your SS to black out names, naming and shaming is bad. Also, haven't we had enough of these threads? We get it, some people are jerks or stupid, no reason to run to the forums everytime someone doesn't treat you fairly.

Is it shaming though if they are not ashamed of what they said?

Yeah, probably has been enough threads.

In my books it's not shaming if they are proud of their actions. Which in this case it seems they were.

Oh yeah and ZOS should not punish you because people are just jerks. By making you wait 15 mins before you can even get into another 2 hour queue.