Token System for VMA & VDSA

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Anyway, the answers are yes to both. I really don't feel like breaking down the build too or logging in to screen the achievements.

I know it is very time consuming putting together a paragraph or two of text when you have already contributed so much quality content to this thread.

So how about this. A simple numerical answer to my followup question to question #1? How many attempts did it take before you got BIS weapons? Please feel free to approximate the answer.

Thanks in advance for your reasoned, mature response.

Artis

No

montiferus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

[ I was completing trials when you were learning how to walk.

According to google the release date for ESO was April 4, 2014. In order for your statement to be true I would need to be less than 32 months old. I can attest this is NOT the case. I am concerned by your lack of accuracy and false accusations. I believe it calls into question the veracity of all your previous statements.

Everyone please take all of Artis's comments with this in mind.

Can't help you if you don't understand exaggerations and figures of speech, in particular, that mean "long ago".

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Even if you didn't complete any of that, you can still have your opinion

You are correct everyone can have an opinion. If you were looking to invest your life's savings whose opinion would you value more..a homeless man or Warren Buffett? Let's assume for the sake of argument (something I can see you enjoy doing very much) they give you entirely different "opinions". Whose opinion would you value more?

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Can't help you if you don't understand exaggerations and figures of speech, in particular, that mean "long ago".

means

Can't help you if you don't understand grammar.

Artis

No

montiferus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Can't help you if you don't understand exaggerations and figures of speech, in particular, that mean "long ago".

means

Can't help you if you don't understand grammar.

Yeah, my "s" is unresponsive, sometimes when I type fast I lose "s"s.

montiferus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Even if you didn't complete any of that, you can still have your opinion

You are correct everyone can have an opinion. If you were looking to invest your life's savings whose opinion would you value more..a homeless man or Warren Buffett? Let's assume for the sake of argument (something I can see you enjoy doing very much) they give you entirely different "opinions". Whose opinion would you value more?

Yeah, but this analogy doesn't apply here at all. Also, I'm pretty sure in both my game abilities and brain/education. And you wont' get far if you call people homeless men as opposed to CEO which you see yourself as. You should stop underestimating people as well as thinking you're the smartest one.

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, but this analogy doesn't apply here at all.

Please explain in detail how the analogy does not apply. Provide solid evidence supported by facts.

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

And you wont' get far if you call people homeless men as opposed to CEO which you see yourself as.

Please explain in detail how I compared myself to Warren Buffett and "people" as homeless men. Provide solid evidence supported by facts.

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

You should stop underestimating people as well as thinking you're the smartest one.

Please explain in detail how I "underestimate people" and consider myself to be "the smartest one". Provide solid evidence supported by facts.

montiferus

Yes

Also..once again..I would like an answer to my followup to question #1. How many times did you run VMA before you received BIS weapons?

Thanks in advance.

jakeedmundson

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Of course you haven't heard lots of them on forums, they don't complain. And I wasn't talking majority-minority, but since you bring it up - people who complain might be a vocal minority. Most players didn't say anything.

Yes because everyone i've met in game is still the minority...nobody (except you it seems) likes the vma drop system.

To reply to you...So why are you complaining?... most likely because @montiferus is right.... i've seen you in multiple threads now... same attitude and lack of understanding for vma. Just wanting attention.

Ps... keep those comments coming Artis lets keep this token system post at the top... you're only helping this cause

Paneross

Yes

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Of course you haven't heard lots of them on forums, they don't complain. And I wasn't talking majority-minority, but since you bring it up - people who complain might be a vocal minority. Most players didn't say anything.

Yes because everyone i've met in game is still the minority...nobody (except you it seems) likes the vma drop system.

To reply to you...So why are you complaining?... most likely because @montiferus is right.... i've seen you in multiple threads now... same attitude and lack of understanding for vma. Just wanting attention.

Ps... keep those comments coming Artis lets keep this token system post at the top... you're only helping this cause

Any person that claims to like the current VMA drop system is an obvious troll.

darthsithis

No

No, only because I think the better idea is to only release offensive staves in sharpened and nirnhoned, resto staves in sharpened powered or decisive, and metal weapons in the corresponding desired traits. (I.e. Daggers come QUITE OFTEN in precise, all the other stuff sharpened or whatever stam ppl want in their mauls idk).

darthsithis

No

It would've been cool to let you select a weapon at the end like the fighters guild.

Srsly here's how easy that dialogue would be-

"the baron who moves like a smoking plume offers his champion a weapon forged from the Aedric remnants of Lorkhans trickery! Would you choose a sword whose blade, so unparalleled in its sharpness, was used to carve the spires of craglorn themselves? Or perhaps a dagger so finely balanced that it imbues the wielder with an uncanny command of man-meric anatomy, which often results in points of attack too precise for sabdpeople OR storm troopers...OR!!! A bow that simply...trains you how to use is as you...use it...no?...ok then! The staff which can tear a hole right through the realm of mundus straight into aetherius it is then! Btw you'll get a gold weapon at the end of the week instead of the eight tempering alloys it took to make said weapon. But hey, now that you got the title and weapon, we wish you the best cuz we probably won't ever see you again KTHXBAI"

Artis

No

montiferus wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Yeah, but this analogy doesn't apply here at all.

Please explain in detail how the analogy does not apply. Provide solid evidence supported by facts.

That's not how it works, you are the one that needs to explain how it applied proven by something. No one is supposed to prove any random statement to be wrong. In this case it's enough to say, that obviously homeless man = not competent in making money (not considering any special cases) and CEO is competent. Now how is anyone competent in getting gear with the RNG system and someone's not? So no, can't compare people in the same way at all. But either way, if you bring up analogy - you explain how it works and make sure that all the relations are preserved. No one is supposed to disprove it - google "brandolini's law".

montiferus wrote: »

Also..once again..I would like an answer to my followup to question #1. How many times did you run VMA before you received BIS weapons?

Thanks in advance.

bis weapons are different for many builds. I got some good resto staff fast enough, don't remember as I'm not a healer. I don't count my runs, I run the arena because it's fun. I haven't had time to run it lately though. Either way, this information is irrelevant to the thread.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Of course you haven't heard lots of them on forums, they don't complain. And I wasn't talking majority-minority, but since you bring it up - people who complain might be a vocal minority. Most players didn't say anything.

Yes because everyone i've met in game is still the minority...nobody (except you it seems) likes the vma drop system.

To reply to you...So why are you complaining?... most likely because @montiferus is right.... i've seen you in multiple threads now... same attitude and lack of understanding for vma. Just wanting attention.

Ps... keep those comments coming Artis lets keep this token system post at the top... you're only helping this cause

Google "the size of a sample".

Paneross wrote: »

Any person that claims to like the current VMA drop system is an obvious troll.

Gonna have to explain this, seems just like an insult and not sure what moderators are doing.

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

That's not how it works, you are the one that needs to explain how it applied proven by something. No one is supposed to prove any random statement to be wrong. In this case it's enough to say, that obviously homeless man = not competent in making money (not considering any special cases) and CEO is competent. Now how is anyone competent in getting gear with the RNG system and someone's not? So no, can't compare people in the same way at all. But either way, if you bring up analogy - you explain how it works and make sure that all the relations are preserved. No one is supposed to disprove it - google "brandolini's law".

So your premise is it is too hard to counter my analogy so I should go on the internet for a half-wit axiom? LOL. That is the solid

Here is the premise in a more simple form. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion. Most opinion's are worthless when you consider the source. Some opinions are more valuable than others as they come from a deeper pool of experience and knowledge. Some opinions are less valuable as they come from a lack of knowledge or desire to troll which leads us too......

Artis wrote: »

bis weapons are different for many builds. I got some good resto staff fast enough, don't remember as I'm not a healer. I don't count my runs, I run the arena because it's fun. I haven't had time to run it lately though. Either way, this information is irrelevant to the thread.

Ummm no as a matter of fact they are not and for stamina not even close to the point where I am beginning to question your understanding of the game and how top DPS is achieved.

Stamina Builds

Bow Bar
- Sharpened VMA Bow

Dual Wield Bar
- Sharpened VMA Axe/Dagger
- Sharpened VMA Dagger

And this is absolutely relevant to the thread as without those weapons you are suffering a huge DPS loss. Not sure what platform you play on but on Xbox if you are a stamina build and you are not stormproof with VMA weapons you aren't getting into any guild worth being a part of.

On a Magicka build this is mitigated as the differential in DPS loss is not nearly as severe but it is sill a loss nonetheless for the vast majority of builds (save magplar).

Ergo if you want to be the best you can be this is a trial you have to do. Furthermore there is only a single trait of value for DPS from this trial. The system of rewarding players is such that it is highly unlikely you will get your weapon in your trait in what some would say is a "reasonable" amount of time.

Also is that difficult for you to estimate how many times you have run it? Seems odd you can't put a number to this.

Finally you made a silly post a while back about people being lazy. I am curious how many times does a person need to run it without getting what they need and then asking for a change to the system as "lazy"? Is it 100 times? 1000 times?

Artis

No

montiferus wrote: »

So your premise is it is too hard to counter my analogy so I should go on the internet for a half-wit axiom? LOL. That is the solid

No, that I don't need to do it, because the burden of proof lies on you since you are the one offering an analogy. For me to counter it, first you have to show that it's not just garbage. That being said, in the very paragraph you quoted I already showed how it's not applicable.

montiferus wrote: »

Here is the premise in a more simple form. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion. Most opinion's are worthless when you consider the source. Some opinions are more valuable than others as they come from a deeper pool of experience and knowledge. Some opinions are less valuable as they come from a lack of knowledge or desire to troll which leads us too......

Exactly, in which case my opinion is oh so valuable, no clue why you think I have no knowledge or experience.

montiferus wrote: »

Ummm no as a matter of fact they are not and for stamina not even close to the point where I am beginning to question your understanding of the game and how top DPS is achieved.

Uh, yes they are. Go have your coffee and wake up before posting. A destro staff is a bis weapon for magicka, but not for stamina, for example. So yeah, bis weps are different for different builds.

montiferus wrote: »

Bow Bar
- Sharpened VMA Bow

Dual Wield Bar
- Sharpened VMA Axe/Dagger
- Sharpened VMA Dagger

Yeah and if I got some of those, they are useless for me since I play a mage. And yeah I did get some bows and daggers at some point.

montiferus wrote: »

And this is absolutely relevant to the thread as without those weapons you are suffering a huge DPS loss. Not sure what platform you play on but on Xbox if you are a stamina build and you are not stormproof with VMA weapons you aren't getting into any guild worth being a part of.

No, this is absolutely irrelevant. You were asking how many runs it took me to get them. That number is absolutely irrelevant. Also, to suffer a loss first you need to have it. If you don't have it, then you aren't losing anything. You just don't have it. And the last sentence is the problem. Good, the supply can't meet demand now, so most players aren't forced to farm vma. Guilds have no choice but to accept them at some point if some players leave the game and they want to keep their roster full. And there are many guilds who can't afford being picky. On the other hand, token system = it will be expected everywhere to have weapons. Not just top guilds. Bad idea.

montiferus wrote: »

On a Magicka build this is mitigated as the differential in DPS loss is not nearly as severe but it is sill a loss nonetheless for the vast majority of builds (save magplar).

And once again, it's not a loss if you never had it.

montiferus wrote: »

Ergo if you want to be the best you can be this is a trial you have to do. Furthermore there is only a single trait of value for DPS from this trial. The system of rewarding players is such that it is highly unlikely you will get your weapon in your trait in what some would say is a "reasonable" amount of time.

You have to be the best you can be with what you have. You can't and aren't supposed to count on having vma weapons in your build.

montiferus wrote: »

Also is that difficult for you to estimate how many times you have run it? Seems odd you can't put a number to this.

Finally you made a silly post a while back about people being lazy. I am curious how many times does a person need to run it without getting what they need and then asking for a change to the system as "lazy"? Is it 100 times? 1000 times?

Yes, it is difficult, because it's been forever since I ran it all the time.

No, it's not measured in times. It's either you run it and maybe you get it, or you want a guaranteed weapon = you're only running it for loot. It's a game, not job. Nobody owes you anything for your time put. It's RNG and it was since forever and everyone knew it. You're gambling your time instead of money. Go to casino and tell them to give you a guarantee that you will win, then tell me how it went. Because that's what you're doing right now. You shouldn't gamble if you don't like the process. When you gamble - you shouldn't count on winning, you do it because you like doing it and win if you're lucky, but mostly you lose.

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

So your premise is it is too hard to counter my analogy so I should go on the internet for a half-wit axiom? LOL. That is the solid

No, that I don't need to do it, because the burden of proof lies on you since you are the one offering an analogy. For me to counter it, first you have to show that it's not just garbage. That being said, in the very paragraph you quoted I already showed how it's not applicable.

montiferus wrote: »

Here is the premise in a more simple form. Yes everyone is entitled to an opinion. Most opinion's are worthless when you consider the source. Some opinions are more valuable than others as they come from a deeper pool of experience and knowledge. Some opinions are less valuable as they come from a lack of knowledge or desire to troll which leads us too......

Exactly, in which case my opinion is oh so valuable, no clue why you think I have no knowledge or experience.

montiferus wrote: »

Ummm no as a matter of fact they are not and for stamina not even close to the point where I am beginning to question your understanding of the game and how top DPS is achieved.

Uh, yes they are. Go have your coffee and wake up before posting. A destro staff is a bis weapon for magicka, but not for stamina, for example. So yeah, bis weps are different for different builds.

montiferus wrote: »

Bow Bar
- Sharpened VMA Bow

Dual Wield Bar
- Sharpened VMA Axe/Dagger
- Sharpened VMA Dagger

Yeah and if I got some of those, they are useless for me since I play a mage. And yeah I did get some bows and daggers at some point.

montiferus wrote: »

And this is absolutely relevant to the thread as without those weapons you are suffering a huge DPS loss. Not sure what platform you play on but on Xbox if you are a stamina build and you are not stormproof with VMA weapons you aren't getting into any guild worth being a part of.

No, this is absolutely irrelevant. You were asking how many runs it took me to get them. That number is absolutely irrelevant. Also, to suffer a loss first you need to have it. If you don't have it, then you aren't losing anything. You just don't have it. And the last sentence is the problem. Good, the supply can't meet demand now, so most players aren't forced to farm vma. Guilds have no choice but to accept them at some point if some players leave the game and they want to keep their roster full. And there are many guilds who can't afford being picky. On the other hand, token system = it will be expected everywhere to have weapons. Not just top guilds. Bad idea.

montiferus wrote: »

On a Magicka build this is mitigated as the differential in DPS loss is not nearly as severe but it is sill a loss nonetheless for the vast majority of builds (save magplar).

And once again, it's not a loss if you never had it.

montiferus wrote: »

Ergo if you want to be the best you can be this is a trial you have to do. Furthermore there is only a single trait of value for DPS from this trial. The system of rewarding players is such that it is highly unlikely you will get your weapon in your trait in what some would say is a "reasonable" amount of time.

You have to be the best you can be with what you have. You can't and aren't supposed to count on having vma weapons in your build.

montiferus wrote: »

Also is that difficult for you to estimate how many times you have run it? Seems odd you can't put a number to this.

Finally you made a silly post a while back about people being lazy. I am curious how many times does a person need to run it without getting what they need and then asking for a change to the system as "lazy"? Is it 100 times? 1000 times?

Yes, it is difficult, because it's been forever since I ran it all the time.

No, it's not measured in times. It's either you run it and maybe you get it, or you want a guaranteed weapon = you're only running it for loot. It's a game, not job. Nobody owes you anything for your time put. It's RNG and it was since forever and everyone knew it. You're gambling your time instead of money. Go to casino and tell them to give you a guarantee that you will win, then tell me how it went. Because that's what you're doing right now. You shouldn't gamble if you don't like the process. When you gamble - you shouldn't count on winning, you do it because you like doing it and win if you're lucky, but mostly you lose.

I was going to respond to this but I just realized you were irrelevant and have been added to my ignore list.

montiferus

Yes

1

Artis

No

montiferus wrote: »

I was going to respond to this but I just realized you were irrelevant and have been added to my ignore list.

Yeah that happens when people understand they have nothing to say.