Token System for VMA & VDSA

jakeedmundson

Yes

Artis wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Someone got their sharpened vMA 2h on their first run...

Someone probably did. That's the nature of RNG. Either way, you DON'T NEED it. And you aren't supposed to get everything you want just because you want it. You have equal chances to get any type of weapons including the type you want. But being picky and only hunting for 1 trait and calling everything useless? The entitlement of some people just puzzles me.

Meld777 wrote: »

Make the content hard enough. And no, RPers are not gated from it by difficulty. nMA is exactly the same, except for the difficulty and weapons, which are supposed to be rare.

You want vMA weapons to be more rare? Handing them out in awesome traits like candy before Dark Brotherhood was already a bad move then. But let's say we don't want any more people to have them, or keep it to 5 good vMA weapons a day. Turn the difficulty up a notch. I burn through that arena like a hot knife through butter. I don't get to see any mechanics. Just triple all enemies' HP (make it 500% increase for bosses) and increase their damage, so I will have to actually look for mechanics again. Maybe turn it up so high that sigils will become necessary again and that you will have to invest in defensive gear and give up on dps if you want to avoid using sigils. And provide people that are able to complete it with guaranteed good gear. That's how you make things rare and rewarding.

I mean, how many of you even know that the last boss of arena 8 has adds? How many of you know that this boss also has attacks that are exactly like the ones of Titans (360° flame wall, fire ball spit). Wouldn't it be better if that boss had 10x the HP, so that you would actually have to kill the stones 10x instead of one, and deal with adds and mechanics. There's also a 1-shot combo: flame wall + pull and you have to dodge it. How many of you even know it? Probably none, because you never even get there. The boss dies 20 sec after round start. It's a joke.

Yes they will be gated then. If only 10% of players are capable of even clearing the content, then there will be so much whine .. all those "you don't cater to the majority", "I pay money I want a weapon too" etc. The current system means more players can get those weapons, and go ahead and try to prove that it's worse than a system that guarantees a weapon to the minority of players.

And maybe most players do know about those combos? You can't assume no one does just because your dps is high. Mine isn't. I can't burn that boss 100-0%. And my DPS is not the worst among magicka NBs. I'm pretty average in numbers so I'm sure other magblades see the adds. Not all of them of course.

kasa-obake wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

Which category do you fall under?
1. You got lucky and got the best rolls in just a few runs.
2. You can't beat VMA so you don't want others having a better opportunity to obtain sought after weapons?

Neither.

kasa-obake wrote: »

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. Make all traits and items drop with the same probability instead of a single one per bow, resto staff, 2h packed together, and 1h grouped together.

I fail to see the hypocrisy. Please enlighten me.

Why don't you ask to nerf sharpened trait drop rate? Or buff other trait drop rates, if you prefer to call it like that? It's obvious that sharpened drops much more often than others. If you cared about "fairness" and equality of drops, how could you miss that? But do say something about weapons not dropping evenly.


That being said, I agree that the RNG should be fixed. And moreover, I think that useless traits must be removed, because I understand looting them can be frustrated for people that aren't psychically and mentally stable.

However, I'm very much against BiS gear for tokens. It shouldn't be guaranteed and it shouldn't be grinded for. It should be gated by very difficult content and RNG, just not as dumb.

But I have a question for you. How are the supposed to keep the weapons rare? Let's not forget that the whole idea of master weapons was to have something that impacts combat and isn't owned by everyone.

So what would it be like for "stable" individuals? Would you smile at the sight of yet another Powered destro staff and thank our lord and saviour the RNJesus and ZOS for that wonderful, wonderful reward? And then go back farming the arena with a grin on your lips and a jig in your step?
Getting stupid loot is frustrating for everyone, and your derogatory comments are misplaced.

If it should be gated by "very difficult content", upgrade vMSA's difficulty. It ain't hard or a challenge anymore. And back when it was, the BiS weapons were dropping at every turn so "rare" ain't the word you're looking for.

You're right, it shouldn't be owned by everyone. But it should be owned by good players who have dedicated a lot of time into it. I do not feel any less worthy that a fotm black rose - viper wearing stam dk, and yet I do not have the vMSA staff after 223 runs he lucked out in getting after 1.

I just fail to see your point no matter how hard I try. You seem to be under the delusion that those who have these weapons are somehow better players and more "worthy". That there is some sort of gated community of vMSA BiS weapon owners that are holier than thou. Only it isn't the case. It's based on luck, and given vMSA's current difficulty, any random with proper gear can run it. And if you can't, you can just ask your friends to run it for you.

It's not a testament of skill but that of luck. I would understand it if the weapon traits scaled with your score. Better score - better opportunity to get sharpened. But it isn't the case. Whether you take 5 hours to do that stuff with the saved quest or run it in 40 minutes, the loot drops and chances are the same.

Yes exactly. I would smile and decon. And no, I would never farm the arena. I'd go there because it's fun. When it stopped being fun or I got distracted by other aspects/places of the game, then I'd stop going there. Once again - you are not supposed to farm it. You should play content for fun and not count on any loot. ZOS are trying to teach you that since release.

It shouldnt' be owned by everyone, but everyone should have a chance to own it. It shouldn't be guaranteed to you just because you are a good player. Then it would make strong players even stronger and weak players would have no chance to catch up. If you make it harder, then most players won't even have a chance. Please explain, how is it better for a game for the minority to be guaranteed an item, then for the majority to have a shot at getting it?

No, I dont' say the players who have it a more worthy, wtf? Don't put words in my mouth. It is based on luck, that's the whole point! It's like, if you really lived in that world, wow you were lucky to find a rare weapon that almost no one has. No matter how good you are, you just were lucky to walk into a right cave. That's way more realistic. Wut? Haven't you ever read a book or watched a movie or something? Bilbo didn't get the Sting because he "deserved" it and farmed for it.

Why is any particular person supposed to be guaranteed to get that weapon at all? You seem to be under the delusion that anyone "deserves" or "earns" anything in a game. And that "good" players are more "worthy" and deserve something just because they are good. I fail to see this point no matter how hard I try. If people wanted that crap, they'd spend this time IRL, actually working and earning higher salaries.

See bold above...
If you haven't farmed the arena, then your opinion means nothing in this thread. Come back and talk to us when you reluctantly (but somehow still optimistically) put in 100 hours of work for nothing at all.

The system for items in this arena kills a players motivation for many other aspects of this game.

Stopnaggin

Jaronking wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Geez no.

Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table

You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods

Terrible to add this

Your telling me RNG is fine when I have done 300 runs of VMA and has never received a sharpened 2h or DW weapon?RNG in this game is far from fine its the worst in any game I played

But what he suggests would virtually up your chances, seriously training, prosperous, defending, and weighted are most useless on endgame weapons. Also charged into that catagory. If they were gone, maybe leave defending, you could double your chance at something useful.

montiferus

Yes

It cracks me up that so many people who haven't done the content seem to have very strong opinions on it. I don't get it.

Whether it is tokens or some other mechanism the drops need to change. Possibly with the exception of precise/defending if you don't get sharpened you basically got a worthless drop. Sharpened is so OP it makes everything else useless. They need to either buff the other traits to make them more viable or just drop them from the loot table entirely.

It makes no sense.

alexkdd99

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

I just don't want to have to do 400 more runs of VMA to get me a sharpened VMA 2h.I'll rather quit the game.Is that what you want people to do @NewBlacksmurf would you rather they quit the game then having a reasonable way of getting the reward they deserve for doing the content.

@Jaronking
I believe my vote is causing you to take my opinion wrong.

I'm just completely against any ideas of a token system. I'm all for positive changes that don't involve any requirements to run more

Ideas like removing certain loot possibilities from the loot table as well as adding two person and three person run options for increased loot results with shareable drops for 2 hours as well as adding two more leader boards.

That doesn't make any sense in context with what op is suggesting. You still get rewards for each run but you have an added safety net to ensure you eventually get your desired reward. Even with pulling less desired traits you still could never get your desired item. Considering VMA is the only end game solo content in the game i doubt they would ever allow more than 1 person.

As it stands you still have to run it a ton to get a desired item. If anything, adding a token system would decrease the total number of runs required in order to get your desired item. You keep saying no requirements to run more but i would say the number of people who got what they wanted in under 5 runs is few and far between. Tokens would decrease the total number of runs required for the vast majority of people completing VMA, and those who did get their desired item would still get it in the same amount of runs as before.

Adding tokens would in fact lower the number of runs required to get your desired items, definitely would not increase the number of runs needed. You would still have the chance to get your item each run. It is impossible for this solution to ever require someone to run more times verses the current system.

@alexkdd99

Please explain how exactly adding a token shortens the amount of runs

I gather it's assumed but it's not guaranteed so that's why I don't believe it to be the best suggestion
Also as the other comments and threads have shown, the loot table is still not addressed

Lastly what value are the tokens other than an extra RNG for loot?
I'm trying to think about impactful changes not an assumed theory cause as some say...they've done 200, 300 or even 700 runs. The token idea doesn't mean 200 run equal 400 runs.
It only means another chance with the same exact RNG options which isn't better....it's just assumed to be better


It's like people who buy multiple lottery tickets chances thinking it increases their odds....the difference here is there isn't a min or max number of chances so the RNG is infinite and doesn't aggregate up the more you run regardless of having a token

Ok so with a token system like op suggested the current rng system would still be in effect. So if you got your weapon your good. If you didn't you would have a token to trade in for you're desired weapon. Either way there is no possible way that the number of runs could increase with the system op is suggesting. It is not possible for someone to have to run vma more times with the system op is suggesting.

If you get your desired weapon you can stop running, if you didn't you would have a token to count towards getting the weapon you want. I honestly don't see how anyone could be against a system that could do nothing but reduce the number of required runs.

NewBlacksmurf

No

alexkdd99 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Jaronking wrote: »

I just don't want to have to do 400 more runs of VMA to get me a sharpened VMA 2h.I'll rather quit the game.Is that what you want people to do @NewBlacksmurf would you rather they quit the game then having a reasonable way of getting the reward they deserve for doing the content.

@Jaronking
I believe my vote is causing you to take my opinion wrong.

I'm just completely against any ideas of a token system. I'm all for positive changes that don't involve any requirements to run more

Ideas like removing certain loot possibilities from the loot table as well as adding two person and three person run options for increased loot results with shareable drops for 2 hours as well as adding two more leader boards.

That doesn't make any sense in context with what op is suggesting. You still get rewards for each run but you have an added safety net to ensure you eventually get your desired reward. Even with pulling less desired traits you still could never get your desired item. Considering VMA is the only end game solo content in the game i doubt they would ever allow more than 1 person.

As it stands you still have to run it a ton to get a desired item. If anything, adding a token system would decrease the total number of runs required in order to get your desired item. You keep saying no requirements to run more but i would say the number of people who got what they wanted in under 5 runs is few and far between. Tokens would decrease the total number of runs required for the vast majority of people completing VMA, and those who did get their desired item would still get it in the same amount of runs as before.

Adding tokens would in fact lower the number of runs required to get your desired items, definitely would not increase the number of runs needed. You would still have the chance to get your item each run. It is impossible for this solution to ever require someone to run more times verses the current system.

@alexkdd99

Please explain how exactly adding a token shortens the amount of runs

I gather it's assumed but it's not guaranteed so that's why I don't believe it to be the best suggestion
Also as the other comments and threads have shown, the loot table is still not addressed

Lastly what value are the tokens other than an extra RNG for loot?
I'm trying to think about impactful changes not an assumed theory cause as some say...they've done 200, 300 or even 700 runs. The token idea doesn't mean 200 run equal 400 runs.
It only means another chance with the same exact RNG options which isn't better....it's just assumed to be better


It's like people who buy multiple lottery tickets chances thinking it increases their odds....the difference here is there isn't a min or max number of chances so the RNG is infinite and doesn't aggregate up the more you run regardless of having a token

Ok so with a token system like op suggested the current rng system would still be in effect. So if you got your weapon your good. If you didn't you would have a token to trade in for you're desired weapon. Either way there is no possible way that the number of runs could increase with the system op is suggesting. It is not possible for someone to have to run vma more times with the system op is suggesting.

If you get your desired weapon you can stop running, if you didn't you would have a token to count towards getting the weapon you want. I honestly don't see how anyone could be against a system that could do nothing but reduce the number of required runs.

@alexkdd99
I'm not against a system that reduces the number of runs....I'm against not addressing the reason you have to do more runs. So the idea of adding another needless system without logic in avoidance to addressing the identified problem doesn't make much sense to me.

It's one thing if the problem isn't know....

Artis

No

jakeedmundson wrote: »

See bold above...
If you haven't farmed the arena, then your opinion means nothing in this thread. Come back and talk to us when you reluctantly (but somehow still optimistically) put in 100 hours of work for nothing at all.

The system for items in this arena kills a players motivation for many other aspects of this game.

Oh but I have, I just wasn't counting on any loot. I ran it multiple times because I loved it and wanted to improve my score. And then they reset it lol.

It's on you that you put in 100 hours work KNOWING the rules. Nobody owes you anything. The weapons are supposed to be rare. You are not supposed to have them just because you put in X hours. That's not how it works.

The system for items in this arena has absolutely nothing to do with other aspects of this game. I stopped running arena namely because of other aspects - there's just so much to do to spend all time in vMA.

Whiners kill their own motivation for anything. Drop that entitlement and have fun in game. The game is not about vMA weapons.

jakeedmundson

Yes

Artis wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

See bold above...
If you haven't farmed the arena, then your opinion means nothing in this thread. Come back and talk to us when you reluctantly (but somehow still optimistically) put in 100 hours of work for nothing at all.

The system for items in this arena kills a players motivation for many other aspects of this game.

Oh but I have, I just wasn't counting on any loot. I ran it multiple times because I loved it and wanted to improve my score. And then they reset it lol.

It's on you that you put in 100 hours work KNOWING the rules. Nobody owes you anything. The weapons are supposed to be rare. You are not supposed to have them just because you put in X hours. That's not how it works.

The system for items in this arena has absolutely nothing to do with other aspects of this game. I stopped running arena namely because of other aspects - there's just so much to do to spend all time in vMA.

Whiners kill their own motivation for anything. Drop that entitlement and have fun in game. The game is not about vMA weapons.

I didn't say they owed me anything... i'm just agreeing with the idea that this place needs a change. Where do you folks keep seeing these "i deserve this" ideas? The only thing most people are asking for is a better ratio of work : reward.
The arena has gone through plenty of changes... before DB came out you could almost count on getting the item you were looking for in X amount of runs... since only sharpened, precise, and defending were dropped traits. You would just need to get lucky on the weapon type.
Would you run group trials if VO or IA jewelry dropped in 8 traits? How about if they added 10 more set drops to that same loot pool? (comparable to vma loot pool)... How about monster masks? what if they all dropped from every dungeon boss with all traits? i'm guessing no one would run them... why put in that work to most likely gain nothing? The first few times, sure... it would be fun... but by the 50th time... #done-zo

This type of game is about character progression (or RP for some) ... If i can run the same content 100 times (essentially 100+ hours) and NOT gain something useful... then i'm not progressing.
VMA gear is the last bit of gear i wanted to find to max out a few characters... after that? i'd make new ones, play other parts of the eso, and enjoy the vma weapons that i worked for...its not like people would just quit because they made a way to earn the weapons.

Why are you so against making these weapons attainable?
The changes to this arena from the DB patch have been in play for about ...6 months? now... people have been farming this place constantly and still don't have the item(s) they're looking for... I guess to me, that is poor design. You need to reward the players for the work they put in.

Upright_man

Why are these vMA RNG threads always rampant with people complaining about not getting their sharpened inferno staff?

Meld777 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

But I have a question for you. How are the supposed to keep the weapons rare? Let's not forget that the whole idea of master weapons was to have something that impacts combat and isn't owned by everyone.

Make the content hard enough. And no, RPers are not gated from it by difficulty. nMA is exactly the same, except for the difficulty and weapons, which are supposed to be rare.

You want vMA weapons to be more rare? Handing them out in awesome traits like candy before Dark Brotherhood was already a bad move then. But let's say we don't want any more people to have them, or keep it to 5 good vMA weapons a day. Turn the difficulty up a notch. I burn through that arena like a hot knife through butter. I don't get to see any mechanics. Just triple all enemies' HP (make it 500% increase for bosses) and increase their damage, so I will have to actually look for mechanics again. Maybe turn it up so high that sigils will become necessary again and that you will have to invest in defensive gear and give up on dps if you want to avoid using sigils. And provide people that are able to complete it with guaranteed good gear. That's how you make things rare and rewarding.

I mean, how many of you even know that the last boss of arena 8 has adds? How many of you know that this boss also has attacks that are exactly like the ones of Titans (360° flame wall, fire ball spit). Wouldn't it be better if that boss had 10x the HP, so that you would actually have to kill the stones 10x instead of one, and deal with adds and mechanics. There's also a 1-shot combo: flame wall + pull and you have to dodge it. How many of you even know it? Probably none, because you never even get there. The boss dies 20 sec after round start. It's a joke.

Maybe you should start a craze doing it only in green cp160 gear so it feels more like what your saying above
All it'll take is one good youtube clip of you flawlessly conquering vMA and the challenge will be set.

Lukums1

I've commented on these posts before being 1 of the people who can actually talk perhaps people will listen.

I agree that there should be a token system - let's get that out of the way.

Let's also get out of the way that I have all weapons in every single trait - so I'm not swung in any which way.

Running the arena doesn't make you better after 100 clears it just makes it repetitive, a lot of people don't have this kind of time to invest farming a particular weapon with a particular trait. I can almost 100%...99% say that you'll get most weapons in sharpen within 100-200 runs but even that for most is considered a huge time investment and to be quite frank it is.

It's not about a sense of "I want" and "Give me now" it's a sense of you have silly traits in an arena that takes time to learn and clear and over time become so attuned you clear in 40-50minutes. Which at this point meh, if I don't get my weapon but it's still frustrating I know!

So, as proposed previously that when collecting a weapon that you can trade that weapon in for 1 token, a clear will also equal 1 token.

The weapon of choice will equal 50 tokens - I think in 50 runs you'll get something that you can keep and if you say ohhh no that's not true you're either 1. a liar or 2. someone who just wants to complain.

At least in this respect you can see some kind of end at the tunnel, I don't see a "hard mode" or a NEW arena getting added any time soon (within 12 months) so this is the best outcome for all either struggling or over 200 runs.

I still hold firm that crying about not receiving a particular weapon in 100 runs or less you need to get over it, the chances are low and that's how it currently is creating post after post everyday about the same issue isn't going to get things sorted, we need more constructive posts on how to effectively make it better for the people at their wits end and hope that ZOS finds it a necessary thing to change and implement.

I think everything I've said above holds value.

Luke

Artis

No

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

See bold above...
If you haven't farmed the arena, then your opinion means nothing in this thread. Come back and talk to us when you reluctantly (but somehow still optimistically) put in 100 hours of work for nothing at all.

The system for items in this arena kills a players motivation for many other aspects of this game.

Oh but I have, I just wasn't counting on any loot. I ran it multiple times because I loved it and wanted to improve my score. And then they reset it lol.

It's on you that you put in 100 hours work KNOWING the rules. Nobody owes you anything. The weapons are supposed to be rare. You are not supposed to have them just because you put in X hours. That's not how it works.

The system for items in this arena has absolutely nothing to do with other aspects of this game. I stopped running arena namely because of other aspects - there's just so much to do to spend all time in vMA.

Whiners kill their own motivation for anything. Drop that entitlement and have fun in game. The game is not about vMA weapons.

I didn't say they owed me anything... i'm just agreeing with the idea that this place needs a change. Where do you folks keep seeing these "i deserve this" ideas? The only thing most people are asking for is a better ratio of work : reward.
The arena has gone through plenty of changes... before DB came out you could almost count on getting the item you were looking for in X amount of runs... since only sharpened, precise, and defending were dropped traits. You would just need to get lucky on the weapon type.
Would you run group trials if VO or IA jewelry dropped in 8 traits? How about if they added 10 more set drops to that same loot pool? (comparable to vma loot pool)... How about monster masks? what if they all dropped from every dungeon boss with all traits? i'm guessing no one would run them... why put in that work to most likely gain nothing? The first few times, sure... it would be fun... but by the 50th time... #done-zo

This type of game is about character progression (or RP for some) ... If i can run the same content 100 times (essentially 100+ hours) and NOT gain something useful... then i'm not progressing.
VMA gear is the last bit of gear i wanted to find to max out a few characters... after that? i'd make new ones, play other parts of the eso, and enjoy the vma weapons that i worked for...its not like people would just quit because they made a way to earn the weapons.

Why are you so against making these weapons attainable?
The changes to this arena from the DB patch have been in play for about ...6 months? now... people have been farming this place constantly and still don't have the item(s) they're looking for... I guess to me, that is poor design. You need to reward the players for the work they put in.

There's no work. You are playing a game. You aren't forced to go there. Going there is an option. One option out of many things you can do.

Yes, I would run vet trials if jewelry dropped in 8 traits. How the heck is running content related to rewards if there's no raid tiers? Masks already drop in every trait, just not from every boss, so what you described is even better.

I don't put in any work. And you don't. We are playing the game. We run content if it's fun. We don't run it if it's not. Would you run anything if you already had BiS gear? According to your logic - no, because you run it for rewards. But if no, then you don't need gear. Just take a shortcut and stop running it now if it's not fun for you, then grinding for gear and then stop running it. What's the point? This game is not about raid progress and gearing up to have access to higher tier raids, like WOW.

Character progression is not about gear only. Also, it's not about character progression to start with. Why would you assume it is about it? It's about having fun and playing with and against other people. Or about completing stuff.

Yes you do need to reward work. But here - there's no work. You don't have to run vma. No one asked you. No one forced you. And the main thing - YOU KNEW about the loot system BEFORE running it. So now it's hypocrite to ask for more rewards after you already agreed to conditions of "work" and did it. Want to renegotiate? Go ahead. But it's not work and not many people take you seriously. You are free to stop running VMA and run anything else. Why don't you do that?

p.s. also, don't you understand, that if they are easily accessible - they will be required by everyone and lots of new players will never catch up within reasonable amount of time. And they will be kicked from LFG and pugs for not having weps just like now they are getting kicked for not following meta.

Lukums1 wrote: »

Running the arena doesn't make you better after 100 clears it just makes it repetitive, a lot of people don't have this kind of time to invest farming a particular weapon with a particular trait. I can almost 100%...99% say that you'll get most weapons in sharpen within 100-200 runs but even that for most is considered a huge time investment and to be quite frank it is.


So, as proposed previously that when collecting a weapon that you can trade that weapon in for 1 token, a clear will also equal 1 token.

The weapon of choice will equal 50 tokens - I think in 50 runs you'll get something that you can keep and if you say ohhh no that's not true you're either 1. a liar or 2. someone who just wants to complain.


Luke

So dont' run it then? No one is forcing you now.

Implement what you suggest? And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them. Because there will be no excuse not to have a vma weapon.

Not to mention that it won't be rare as it was meant to be.

Lukums1

Artis wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

See bold above...
If you haven't farmed the arena, then your opinion means nothing in this thread. Come back and talk to us when you reluctantly (but somehow still optimistically) put in 100 hours of work for nothing at all.

The system for items in this arena kills a players motivation for many other aspects of this game.

Oh but I have, I just wasn't counting on any loot. I ran it multiple times because I loved it and wanted to improve my score. And then they reset it lol.

It's on you that you put in 100 hours work KNOWING the rules. Nobody owes you anything. The weapons are supposed to be rare. You are not supposed to have them just because you put in X hours. That's not how it works.

The system for items in this arena has absolutely nothing to do with other aspects of this game. I stopped running arena namely because of other aspects - there's just so much to do to spend all time in vMA.

Whiners kill their own motivation for anything. Drop that entitlement and have fun in game. The game is not about vMA weapons.

I didn't say they owed me anything... i'm just agreeing with the idea that this place needs a change. Where do you folks keep seeing these "i deserve this" ideas? The only thing most people are asking for is a better ratio of work : reward.
The arena has gone through plenty of changes... before DB came out you could almost count on getting the item you were looking for in X amount of runs... since only sharpened, precise, and defending were dropped traits. You would just need to get lucky on the weapon type.
Would you run group trials if VO or IA jewelry dropped in 8 traits? How about if they added 10 more set drops to that same loot pool? (comparable to vma loot pool)... How about monster masks? what if they all dropped from every dungeon boss with all traits? i'm guessing no one would run them... why put in that work to most likely gain nothing? The first few times, sure... it would be fun... but by the 50th time... #done-zo

This type of game is about character progression (or RP for some) ... If i can run the same content 100 times (essentially 100+ hours) and NOT gain something useful... then i'm not progressing.
VMA gear is the last bit of gear i wanted to find to max out a few characters... after that? i'd make new ones, play other parts of the eso, and enjoy the vma weapons that i worked for...its not like people would just quit because they made a way to earn the weapons.

Why are you so against making these weapons attainable?
The changes to this arena from the DB patch have been in play for about ...6 months? now... people have been farming this place constantly and still don't have the item(s) they're looking for... I guess to me, that is poor design. You need to reward the players for the work they put in.

There's no work. You are playing a game. You aren't forced to go there. Going there is an option. One option out of many things you can do.

Yes, I would run vet trials if jewelry dropped in 8 traits. How the heck is running content related to rewards if there's no raid tiers? Masks already drop in every trait, just not from every boss, so what you described is even better.

I don't put in any work. And you don't. We are playing the game. We run content if it's fun. We don't run it if it's not. Would you run anything if you already had BiS gear? According to your logic - no, because you run it for rewards. But if no, then you don't need gear. Just take a shortcut and stop running it now if it's not fun for you, then grinding for gear and then stop running it. What's the point? This game is not about raid progress and gearing up to have access to higher tier raids, like WOW.

Character progression is not about gear only. Also, it's not about character progression to start with. Why would you assume it is about it? It's about having fun and playing with and against other people. Or about completing stuff.

Yes you do need to reward work. But here - there's no work. You don't have to run vma. No one asked you. No one forced you. And the main thing - YOU KNEW about the loot system BEFORE running it. So now it's hypocrite to ask for more rewards after you already agreed to conditions of "work" and did it. Want to renegotiate? Go ahead. But it's not work and not many people take you seriously. You are free to stop running VMA and run anything else. Why don't you do that?

p.s. also, don't you understand, that if they are easily accessible - they will be required by everyone and lots of new players will never catch up within reasonable amount of time. And they will be kicked from LFG and pugs for not having weps just like now they are getting kicked for not following meta.

Lukums1 wrote: »

Running the arena doesn't make you better after 100 clears it just makes it repetitive, a lot of people don't have this kind of time to invest farming a particular weapon with a particular trait. I can almost 100%...99% say that you'll get most weapons in sharpen within 100-200 runs but even that for most is considered a huge time investment and to be quite frank it is.


So, as proposed previously that when collecting a weapon that you can trade that weapon in for 1 token, a clear will also equal 1 token.

The weapon of choice will equal 50 tokens - I think in 50 runs you'll get something that you can keep and if you say ohhh no that's not true you're either 1. a liar or 2. someone who just wants to complain.


Luke

So dont' run it then? No one is forcing you now.

Implement what you suggest? And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them. Because there will be no excuse not to have a vma weapon.

Not to mention that it won't be rare as it was meant to be.

Whoa, I have no idea who you are but no where did I complain about maelstrom perhaps you should read and stop jumping down peoples throats?

If you don't make some what of a change, people will become less interested?
As mentioned I have everything I run it for "fun" and to teach others about Maelstrom so I have no idea why you decided to get all jumpy there.

They changed trials loot because it was deemed "silly" to have "silly traits" within the trial experience, one could only hope they had of done the same for Maelstrom but they didn't.

I've yet to see any trial groups that I've been apart of with many, many guilds say "VMA weapons or GTFO" so again not quite sure you meant by:

And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them

No one is forcing anyone to do Maelstrom where it's nice to have a complete raid team with VMA weapons it's not 100% required...

Bit of track there, all I'm saying to stop the silly posts over and over is (and I do agree with you here) keep running because.

A. You knew it was stupid RNG to get weapons in certain traits
B. You enjoy the arena, you're bored with PVE outside of the arena because everything is stupid easy
C. You hate PVP so you go back to the Arena to get "A better score perhaps"

All I was saying is, it would be nice if they implemented the triat changes they did in Trials within other equally hard content.
No one needs to see "Charged" on a weapon in VMA ever.

PS: I like how you sniped out the lines above stating I already had every single trait in Maelstrom so this wasn't a for or against post it was just constructive back and forth...

This is what I said for the record, so "No one is making me run anything"

Let's also get out of the way that I have all weapons in every single trait - so I'm not swung in any which way.

Luke

Upright_man

@Lukums1 Looks like you have another fan

I must admit it is pretty disappointing to get a Charged Maelstrom weapon.

But what really bothers me is Voriak Solkyn .. Valkyn Skoria... was this a distraction tactic

Lukums1

Upright_man wrote: »

@Lukums1 Looks like you have another fan

It appears so LOL.

Rather fans like yourself though! bahaha.

Geez. Some people.

Artis

No

Lukums1 wrote: »

Whoa, I have no idea who you are but no where did I complain about maelstrom perhaps you should read and stop jumping down peoples throats?

If you don't make some what of a change, people will become less interested?
As mentioned I have everything I run it for "fun" and to teach others about Maelstrom so I have no idea why you decided to get all jumpy there.

They changed trials loot because it was deemed "silly" to have "silly traits" within the trial experience, one could only hope they had of done the same for Maelstrom but they didn't.

I've yet to see any trial groups that I've been apart of with many, many guilds say "VMA weapons or GTFO" so again not quite sure you meant by:

And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them

No one is forcing anyone to do Maelstrom where it's nice to have a complete raid team with VMA weapons it's not 100% required...

Bit of track there, all I'm saying to stop the silly posts over and over is (and I do agree with you here) keep running because.

A. You knew it was stupid RNG to get weapons in certain traits
B. You enjoy the arena, you're bored with PVE outside of the arena because everything is stupid easy
C. You hate PVP so you go back to the Arena to get "A better score perhaps"

All I was saying is, it would be nice if they implemented the triat changes they did in Trials within other equally hard content.
No one needs to see "Charged" on a weapon in VMA ever.

PS: I like how you sniped out the lines above stating I already had every single trait in Maelstrom so this wasn't a for or against post it was just constructive back and forth...

This is what I said for the record, so "No one is making me run anything"

Let's also get out of the way that I have all weapons in every single trait - so I'm not swung in any which way.

Luke

Yes they will be forced, because there will be no excuse not to have it. Just like now you are "forced" to deal 20-30k + dps, because there's no excuse for you not to. You are expected to have at least bis crafted gear and not in white quality, because why wouldn't you have it unless you're lazy and want to be carried? Same will be with weapons if their drop will be guaranteed. And I'm talking about more or less serious groups of course. The ones that have their pick and don't invite just anyone, but have requirements.

VMA weapons are already somewhat required in top guilds. Basically they require you to have certain DPS, and you pretty much can't reach it without vma weapons.

And no, I wasn't talking about you complaining. Where did you see that? Oo.

That's what I told you: "So dont' run it then? No one is forcing you now.

Implement what you suggest? And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them. Because there will be no excuse not to have a vma weapon.

Not to mention that it won't be rare as it was meant to be."

How is it relevant to what you said about complaining? I don't see it.


p.s. Obviously I was talking about your concept. And whether you do or don't have all traits, it doesn't matter. Weapons shouldn't be guaranteed. Then they will become a requirement. When I said no one is forcing you to run, I was referring to the part where "arena doesn't make you a better player and just becomes repetitive". Well ok, then don't run it.

Lukums1

Artis wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

Whoa, I have no idea who you are but no where did I complain about maelstrom perhaps you should read and stop jumping down peoples throats?

If you don't make some what of a change, people will become less interested?
As mentioned I have everything I run it for "fun" and to teach others about Maelstrom so I have no idea why you decided to get all jumpy there.

They changed trials loot because it was deemed "silly" to have "silly traits" within the trial experience, one could only hope they had of done the same for Maelstrom but they didn't.

I've yet to see any trial groups that I've been apart of with many, many guilds say "VMA weapons or GTFO" so again not quite sure you meant by:

And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them

No one is forcing anyone to do Maelstrom where it's nice to have a complete raid team with VMA weapons it's not 100% required...

Bit of track there, all I'm saying to stop the silly posts over and over is (and I do agree with you here) keep running because.

A. You knew it was stupid RNG to get weapons in certain traits
B. You enjoy the arena, you're bored with PVE outside of the arena because everything is stupid easy
C. You hate PVP so you go back to the Arena to get "A better score perhaps"

All I was saying is, it would be nice if they implemented the triat changes they did in Trials within other equally hard content.
No one needs to see "Charged" on a weapon in VMA ever.

PS: I like how you sniped out the lines above stating I already had every single trait in Maelstrom so this wasn't a for or against post it was just constructive back and forth...

This is what I said for the record, so "No one is making me run anything"

Let's also get out of the way that I have all weapons in every single trait - so I'm not swung in any which way.

Luke

Yes they will be forced, because there will be no excuse not to have it. Just like now you are "forced" to deal 20-30k + dps, because there's no excuse for you not to. You are expected to have at least bis crafted gear and not in white quality, because why wouldn't you have it unless you're lazy and want to be carried? Same will be with weapons if their drop will be guaranteed. And I'm talking about more or less serious groups of course. The ones that have their pick and don't invite just anyone, but have requirements.

VMA weapons are already somewhat required in top guilds. Basically they require you to have certain DPS, and you pretty much can't reach it without vma weapons.

And no, I wasn't talking about you complaining. Where did you see that? Oo.

That's what I told you: "So dont' run it then? No one is forcing you now.

Implement what you suggest? And then everyone will be forced to run it multiple times to get weapons or else no serious trial group will take them. Because there will be no excuse not to have a vma weapon.

Not to mention that it won't be rare as it was meant to be."

How is it relevant to what you said about complaining? I don't see it.


p.s. Obviously I was talking about your concept. And whether you do or don't have all traits, it doesn't matter. Weapons shouldn't be guaranteed. Then they will become a requirement. When I said no one is forcing you to run, I was referring to the part where "arena doesn't make you a better player and just becomes repetitive". Well ok, then don't run it.

I'll probably jump out of this convo as I have some pretty strong views about it.

All I'm saying is, a leader myself with running vet trials doesn't ask each person:

1. Do you have Maelstrom weapons?
2. How's your DPS rotation?
3. Have you got experience?

Generally if they are in 3 types of guilds which I'm apart of I give people an equal fair chance BIS / Maelstrom weapons or not.
I know a lot of others feel the same way I do, your whole stance is:

Don't give them the triats they want because it will mean that this will be the "Standard". Am I correct in saying that?

What you seem to not understand is no one is governed by what they should or shouldn't be doing.

I know I'm not in the "Best Guilds" nor do I want to be, as long as we get through the content why should we care?
Keep in mind I'm on PS4, we don't have DPS meters and you know what I hope we never get them because like minded you are, it destroys people emersion within a Game AND also makes people feel " They aren't up to the challenge" which isn't nice either.

On final notes, I think something does have to be done. I'm not sure what that is.

For the people struggling to get what they want, it may just come down to absolute DUMB luck. If you're on console you're safe from these HIGH DPS numbers or GTFO. At least that's how I run my groups.

Luke

jakeedmundson

Yes

@Artis

No one is going to keep arguing with you because it's clear that you have no idea what we're talking about...

alperheu

Yes

I don't see a reason why this shouldn't be implemented to the game. Honestly speaking, leaving the drops to rng isn't a very good idea considering the drop rates of certain items being lower than others. I understand that many people have completed it countless times to get their desired item, but I think that it turns into an unpleasant experience after grinding for so long and not having the weapon you need. The amount of tokens needed for the weapon of choice with the desired trait could be a ridicilously high number too, but then at least we would know that we are going to get it eventually instead of just hoping to get it from the chest at the end every time.

Artis

No

Lukums1 wrote: »

I'll probably jump out of this convo as I have some pretty strong views about it.

All I'm saying is, a leader myself with running vet trials doesn't ask each person:

1. Do you have Maelstrom weapons?
2. How's your DPS rotation?
3. Have you got experience?

Generally if they are in 3 types of guilds which I'm apart of I give people an equal fair chance BIS / Maelstrom weapons or not.
I know a lot of others feel the same way I do, your whole stance is:

Don't give them the triats they want because it will mean that this will be the "Standard". Am I correct in saying that?

What you seem to not understand is no one is governed by what they should or shouldn't be doing.

I know I'm not in the "Best Guilds" nor do I want to be, as long as we get through the content why should we care?
Keep in mind I'm on PS4, we don't have DPS meters and you know what I hope we never get them because like minded you are, it destroys people emersion within a Game AND also makes people feel " They aren't up to the challenge" which isn't nice either.

On final notes, I think something does have to be done. I'm not sure what that is.

For the people struggling to get what they want, it may just come down to absolute DUMB luck. If you're on console you're safe from these HIGH DPS numbers or GTFO. At least that's how I run my groups.

Luke

As I said, no one is asking if you have weapons. They ask you if you deal certain DPS. And in my case it's impossible to deal that if you don't have a vMA staff.

If you have dps meters and don't care about gear, then why do you need a certain item? Because some dude from PC who had a dps meter wrote that in his guide?

Yeah you're on console, but don't forget how your suggestion would affect PC. Don't you see all the threads where people get kicked out of groups for not following meta or not having certain CP?

@jakeedmundson

lol classic humanities major. Don't know what to say? Insult the opponent and/or tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.
No, I know what I'm talking about and what we're talking about. I have experience in MMOs and in ESO in particular. And spent good amount of time in vMA myself.

Paneross

Yes

The people have spoken by votes. Make this happen!!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Lukums1

Artis wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

I'll probably jump out of this convo as I have some pretty strong views about it.

All I'm saying is, a leader myself with running vet trials doesn't ask each person:

1. Do you have Maelstrom weapons?
2. How's your DPS rotation?
3. Have you got experience?

Generally if they are in 3 types of guilds which I'm apart of I give people an equal fair chance BIS / Maelstrom weapons or not.
I know a lot of others feel the same way I do, your whole stance is:

Don't give them the triats they want because it will mean that this will be the "Standard". Am I correct in saying that?

What you seem to not understand is no one is governed by what they should or shouldn't be doing.

I know I'm not in the "Best Guilds" nor do I want to be, as long as we get through the content why should we care?
Keep in mind I'm on PS4, we don't have DPS meters and you know what I hope we never get them because like minded you are, it destroys people emersion within a Game AND also makes people feel " They aren't up to the challenge" which isn't nice either.

On final notes, I think something does have to be done. I'm not sure what that is.

For the people struggling to get what they want, it may just come down to absolute DUMB luck. If you're on console you're safe from these HIGH DPS numbers or GTFO. At least that's how I run my groups.

Luke

As I said, no one is asking if you have weapons. They ask you if you deal certain DPS. And in my case it's impossible to deal that if you don't have a vMA staff.

If you have dps meters and don't care about gear, then why do you need a certain item? Because some dude from PC who had a dps meter wrote that in his guide?

Yeah you're on console, but don't forget how your suggestion would affect PC. Don't you see all the threads where people get kicked out of groups for not following meta or not having certain CP?

@jakeedmundson

lol classic humanities major. Don't know what to say? Insult the opponent and/or tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.
No, I know what I'm talking about and what we're talking about. I have experience in MMOs and in ESO in particular. And spent good amount of time in vMA myself.

You're making my head hurt mate.

Did you listen to what I said at all? Did you even read what I said? I'm guessing not.

I clearly mentioned if MY GROUP on console WITHOUT maelstrom weapons on 50% of the people EASILY can clear all vet trial content what is the issue?
I DOUBT it is exactly the same for PC however, within reason I don't think the leaders of those groups are "elitist" I could be wrong sure but if we can do it what stops PC players doing the same?

I think you need to get a better grip on reality that if you don't get the weapon you're seeking move on. Does it suck? Yes. Does it make you feel like ***? Absolutely. I agree.

The definition of insanity: Doing something over and over again and expecting different results, when you know full well that you're chances are at 1%. Then you get angry at the game because you failed to get what you're looking for.
BUT - You go back into Maelstrom. The only person I blame in these instances is the person who comes to complain then goes back in. Yes it's bloody stupid tam so wait until it gets better or fixed or whatever you want to call it then continue on.

I'm not saying "something doesn't need to be done for loot in maelstrom" but I'm saying the weapons ISN'T 100% required to clear content and YOU WON'T be bloody kicked for not having weapons.

Not once in this thread have we mentioned about lack of CP or following the "Meta" as you had mentioned above.

It would be easier to have a constructive discussion with yourself your views if you don't throw other meaningless facts in about other aspects of this game.

Artis

No

Paneross wrote: »

The people have spoken by votes. Make this happen!!!!

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Following the vocal minority is not a good idea.

Lukums1 wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Lukums1 wrote: »

I'll probably jump out of this convo as I have some pretty strong views about it.

All I'm saying is, a leader myself with running vet trials doesn't ask each person:

1. Do you have Maelstrom weapons?
2. How's your DPS rotation?
3. Have you got experience?

Generally if they are in 3 types of guilds which I'm apart of I give people an equal fair chance BIS / Maelstrom weapons or not.
I know a lot of others feel the same way I do, your whole stance is:

Don't give them the triats they want because it will mean that this will be the "Standard". Am I correct in saying that?

What you seem to not understand is no one is governed by what they should or shouldn't be doing.

I know I'm not in the "Best Guilds" nor do I want to be, as long as we get through the content why should we care?
Keep in mind I'm on PS4, we don't have DPS meters and you know what I hope we never get them because like minded you are, it destroys people emersion within a Game AND also makes people feel " They aren't up to the challenge" which isn't nice either.

On final notes, I think something does have to be done. I'm not sure what that is.

For the people struggling to get what they want, it may just come down to absolute DUMB luck. If you're on console you're safe from these HIGH DPS numbers or GTFO. At least that's how I run my groups.

Luke

As I said, no one is asking if you have weapons. They ask you if you deal certain DPS. And in my case it's impossible to deal that if you don't have a vMA staff.

If you have dps meters and don't care about gear, then why do you need a certain item? Because some dude from PC who had a dps meter wrote that in his guide?

Yeah you're on console, but don't forget how your suggestion would affect PC. Don't you see all the threads where people get kicked out of groups for not following meta or not having certain CP?

@jakeedmundson

lol classic humanities major. Don't know what to say? Insult the opponent and/or tell him he doesn't know what he's talking about.
No, I know what I'm talking about and what we're talking about. I have experience in MMOs and in ESO in particular. And spent good amount of time in vMA myself.

You're making my head hurt mate.

Did you listen to what I said at all? Did you even read what I said? I'm guessing not.

I clearly mentioned if MY GROUP on console WITHOUT maelstrom weapons on 50% of the people EASILY can clear all vet trial content what is the issue?
I DOUBT it is exactly the same for PC however, within reason I don't think the leaders of those groups are "elitist" I could be wrong sure but if we can do it what stops PC players doing the same?

I think you need to get a better grip on reality that if you don't get the weapon you're seeking move on. Does it suck? Yes. Does it make you feel like ***? Absolutely. I agree.

The definition of insanity: Doing something over and over again and expecting different results, when you know full well that you're chances are at 1%. Then you get angry at the game because you failed to get what you're looking for.
BUT - You go back into Maelstrom. The only person I blame in these instances is the person who comes to complain then goes back in. Yes it's bloody stupid tam so wait until it gets better or fixed or whatever you want to call it then continue on.

I'm not saying "something doesn't need to be done for loot in maelstrom" but I'm saying the weapons ISN'T 100% required to clear content and YOU WON'T be bloody kicked for not having weapons.

Not once in this thread have we mentioned about lack of CP or following the "Meta" as you had mentioned above.

It would be easier to have a constructive discussion with yourself your views if you don't throw other meaningless facts in about other aspects of this game.

Yeah I did. I don't think you did.

Oh you clear everything easily already? Good, then you don't need the weapons. Run arena for fun and maybe you get them, or don't run it.

What stops PC players is the fact that we do have dps meters. And there's absolutely no reason for good groups not to dps test its members. I mean, if someone somewhere sells oil for 0.1$, nothing stops others from doing that. But why would they, if they can get better price? Market works according to the market laws. That includes the job market too (= "hiring" people for your raid group/guild).

That's exactly what I said - don't count on weapons. Move on if you can't get them.

And no, you do say that something has to be done to guarantee weapons within a certain amount of time. And that I can't agree with, because after a while it will be a standard.

And yes it's exactly what I said somewhere earlier. You don't need those weapons, so stop complaining.

Paneross

Yes

According to this poll 80%+ want a token system.

Artis

No

No ***, lazy players want stuff handed to them?

What else is new? The water is wet?

And let's not even talk about how representative the 228-player sample for the whole population of the game.

jakeedmundson

Yes

Artis wrote: »

No ***, lazy players want stuff handed to them?

What else is new? The water is wet?

And let's not even talk about how representative the 228-player sample for the whole population of the game.

Let's just put it this way...
I've never met a SINGLE person in game that wants VMA to stay the way it is... ONLY on these forums have i ever heard someone (and actually its still very few people) try to say that this system is good and shouldn't change.... so you wanna talk majority/minority?
It honestly makes no sense to me when people try to defend the drop system for vma....
btw, you might be helping the vma change cause by arguing on this thread... keep it alive

Paneross

Yes

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

No ***, lazy players want stuff handed to them?

What else is new? The water is wet?

And let's not even talk about how representative the 228-player sample for the whole population of the game.

Let's just put it this way...
I've never met a SINGLE person in game that wants VMA to stay the way it is... ONLY on these forums have i ever heard someone (and actually its still very few people) try to say that this system is good and shouldn't change.... so you wanna talk majority/minority?
It honestly makes no sense to me when people try to defend the drop system for vma....
btw, you might be helping the vma change cause by arguing on this thread... keep it alive

He is more than likely one of the players who can't beat it and is mad at those who can.

alperheu

Yes

The only question I have at the moment is why all these threads about VMA drops are being ignored by the authorities rather than being simply answered. I don't understand why they refuse to answer them considering almost everyone is unhappy with the reward system. I'd rather hear them say no to a token system instead of remain silent about the topic.

Artis

No

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

No ***, lazy players want stuff handed to them?

What else is new? The water is wet?

And let's not even talk about how representative the 228-player sample for the whole population of the game.

Let's just put it this way...
I've never met a SINGLE person in game that wants VMA to stay the way it is... ONLY on these forums have i ever heard someone (and actually its still very few people) try to say that this system is good and shouldn't change.... so you wanna talk majority/minority?
It honestly makes no sense to me when people try to defend the drop system for vma....
btw, you might be helping the vma change cause by arguing on this thread... keep it alive

Of course you haven't heard lots of them on forums, they don't complain. And I wasn't talking majority-minority, but since you bring it up - people who complain might be a vocal minority. Most players didn't say anything.

Paneross wrote: »

He is more than likely one of the players who can't beat it and is mad at those who can.

keep guessing. Right, whoever disagrees with you is probably a baddie who just can't complete anything. Yeah, that must be it. Facepalm.

alperheu wrote: »

The only question I have at the moment is why all these threads about VMA drops are being ignored by the authorities rather than being simply answered. I don't understand why they refuse to answer them considering almost everyone is unhappy with the reward system. I'd rather hear them say no to a token system instead of remain silent about the topic.

Oh they are answered. The fact that they are ignored is your answer.

montiferus

Yes

Artis,

I have a couple of questions I was hoping you could answer for us.

1. Have you cleared VMA? If yes how long did it take for you to get BIS weapons?

2. Have you completed a vet trial? If yes can you please give us a breakdown of your build?

Artis

No

montiferus wrote: »

Artis,

I have a couple of questions I was hoping you could answer for us.

1. Have you cleared VMA? If yes how long did it take for you to get BIS weapons?

2. Have you completed a vet trial? If yes can you please give us a breakdown of your build?

How is that relevant to the topic? Any of that? I was completing trials when you were learning how to walk.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of anyone's opinion. Otherwise - go ahead and ask the same from every single person.

Anyway, the answers are yes to both. But it doesn't matter. Even if you didn't complete any of that, you can still have your opinion. I disagree with it, but you are entitled to it and I'm not asking if you completed anything. I really don't feel like breaking down the build too or logging in to screen the achievements.

montiferus

Yes

Artis wrote: »

[ I was completing trials when you were learning how to walk.

According to google the release date for ESO was April 4, 2014. In order for your statement to be true I would need to be less than 32 months old. I can attest this is NOT the case. I am concerned by your lack of accuracy and false accusations. I believe it calls into question the veracity of all your previous statements.

Everyone please take all of Artis's comments with this in mind.