Token System for VMA & VDSA
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoI do like how OP makes it easy. 5 tokens instead of the likely 50 tokens for vDSA or 10" tokens for vMA.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoAbsolutely no BiS or end-game loot should be available for tokens. Tokens are for people to catch up so they can start doing end-game content in case they are 1+ tiers behind in progression. There's no raid progression here, unlike in WoW where token system was needed.
Introducing it here won't end well.
It will force new players to farm vMA. They will have absolutely no excuse not to have master weapons. Remember all these threads about getting kicked from the group due to low CP? Introduce tokens and get more of those. But now it will also be about not being able to raid because no good PVE guild will take a player with no weapons then. And group content will be quite literally gated behind solo content.
Not to mention, that the whole point of master weapons was to have something rare and usable in combat. Token system = in a couple of months absolutely everyone in the end game will have those weapons, so bye build diversity. Even now almost everyone has it already (the game has no dungeon cooldowns, so of course), but it will be much worse.
Noticed how lately in guides they give you options depending on whether or not you have a vMA weapon? Or aether weapon? That's good. Not having a vMA weapon encourages people to try other builds and gear.
You aren't supposed to farm a vMA weapon. You aren't supposed to count on it either. You're supposed to run vMA for fun or score and if you're lucky - you get a weapon from there. If you don't like it - don't run it. It's very simple.
You want them to change their philosophy with the weapons so they become common and do it with another piece of gear? Then you will whine about that piece of gear. It's an MMO, not MOBA, people aren't supposed to have the same gear.
2 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭YesThe only people who voted No are those who got lucky on their first few tries and got the best rolls and weaps.5
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Paneross✭✭✭✭✭YesAbsolutely no BiS or end-game loot should be available for tokens. Tokens are for people to catch up so they can start doing end-game content in case they are 1+ tiers behind in progression. There's no raid progression here, unlike in WoW where token system was needed.
Introducing it here won't end well.
It will force new players to farm vMA. They will have absolutely no excuse not to have master weapons. Remember all these threads about getting kicked from the group due to low CP? Introduce tokens and get more of those. But now it will also be about not being able to raid because no good PVE guild will take a player with no weapons then. And group content will be quite literally gated behind solo content.
Not to mention, that the whole point of master weapons was to have something rare and usable in combat. Token system = in a couple of months absolutely everyone in the end game will have those weapons, so bye build diversity. Even now almost everyone has it already (the game has no dungeon cooldowns, so of course), but it will be much worse.
Noticed how lately in guides they give you options depending on whether or not you have a vMA weapon? Or aether weapon? That's good. Not having a vMA weapon encourages people to try other builds and gear.
You aren't supposed to farm a vMA weapon. You aren't supposed to count on it either. You're supposed to run vMA for fun or score and if you're lucky - you get a weapon from there. If you don't like it - don't run it. It's very simple.
You want them to change their philosophy with the weapons so they become common and do it with another piece of gear? Then you will whine about that piece of gear. It's an MMO, not MOBA, people aren't supposed to have the same gear.
WoW token system for BiS end game gear, that's just a small MMO though.
FFXI has a token system for BiS end game gear.
Many others too. Undaunted keys are a essentially a token system.Edited by Paneross on December 8, 2016 6:34PM4 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesIzakiBrotheSs wrote: »I GOT A NIRNHONED INFERNO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay for that back bar yes?
Nah. I'm a perfectionist. Need the Sharpened one. Oh well, 200 more runs and I'll surely get a Precise one! In a few years I might get the one I want so bad.
@IzakiBrotheSs
I havent tested a Nirnhoned Inferno (I do have one, but really dont want to make it gold), but I have tested precise. It was a clear DPS loss over a crafted sharpened staff. This was on a sorc, so I do execute from my back bar. It might be different on a DK, but unfortunately, I think it is sharp or nothing.
Someone might be able to confirm or deny this, but it used to be that whatever bar you were on would control all your dots. So if you casted blockade from your back bar on a precise staff and switched to a sharp staff on front bar, the sharp trait would control the back bar DOT. I do not believe that is the case any longer. In other words, if you go with a precise staff on back bar and sharp on front, your back bar DOTs will NOT get the sharp buff.0 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭YesThe only people who voted No are those who got lucky on their first few tries and got the best rolls and weaps.
OR who have never even cleared vMA and just feel like disagreeing.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoNewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Separate the two and I'm in. Also you should get no tokens for normal like some are suggesting. The difficulty gap between vet and normal is just to big.1 -
jakeedmundson✭✭✭✭✭YesNewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...Edited by jakeedmundson on December 8, 2016 7:04PMCP690
Lv 50 Dunmer DragonKnight Tank/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Sorcerer Dps
Lv 50 Breton Templar Healer/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Nightblade Dps
Lv 50 Redguard Sorcerer Dps
PS4 - DC
vSOHM - vAAHM - vHRC - vMA Flawless
My version of a Heavy Attack Sorc build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294724/magicka-sorc-heavy-attack-build-homestead-ready/p1?new=16 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nojakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...
@jakeedmundson
Why is adding a requirement of X among of runs to obtain an item?
Are you seriously asking me?
I ask because you're complaining about having to do too many runs due to the drops.
I actually don't care to be required to do 25, 50, 100, 300 runs for each items cause I'm not going to run stuff over and over just to get a drop.
Why won't I because....to me it's a terrible way to spend my entertainment hours stressing and working for a virtual item.
In this I do understand what drives the results that are less desired items and ZOS has already made adjustments to other loot tables.
People are arguing for a new system vs addressing the actual issue which isn't abroken system it's just less desired itemsEdited by NewBlacksmurf on December 8, 2016 7:49PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
jakeedmundson✭✭✭✭✭YesNewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...
@jakeedmundson
Why is adding a requirement of X among of runs to obtain an item?
Are you seriously asking me?
I ask because you're complaining about having to do too many runs due to the drops.
I actually don't care cause I'm not going to run stuff over and over just to get a drop.
Why won't I because....to me it's a terrible way to spend my entertainment hours stressing and working for a virtual item.
its not adding some set number of runs to get your perfect item (according to the OP)... he mentioned trading in 5 items for a 1 token each... then trading in those 5 tokens for a specified weapon type... still with random trait. So at BEST you could get your item - one usable item - in 5 runs... but will most likely be more because 1/8 trait drop still isn't a gimme. Even after you get one.. you still have to run it for other items (two 1-h weapons, one 2-h weapon, bow, inferno, lightning, resto... twice that for other toons) Maybe less if you get lucky from the actual drops at the end.
Not to mention.. you have to beat the hardest solo content in the game just to get 1 token...SO many people can't beat this arena still...
That doesn't make it too easy. It doesn't make it next to impossible (like it is now) to get the item you're looking for...So what is the issue? It needs to be balanced...
You're even saying you won't run this place because its a waste of time... You just want to argue with change for the sake of arguing? If you don't care... then why comment?CP690
Lv 50 Dunmer DragonKnight Tank/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Sorcerer Dps
Lv 50 Breton Templar Healer/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Nightblade Dps
Lv 50 Redguard Sorcerer Dps
PS4 - DC
vSOHM - vAAHM - vHRC - vMA Flawless
My version of a Heavy Attack Sorc build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294724/magicka-sorc-heavy-attack-build-homestead-ready/p1?new=13 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Token system for everything please? It´s not like trying to get a sharpened trait weapon for any dungeon set is that much better.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nojakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...
@jakeedmundson
Why is adding a requirement of X among of runs to obtain an item?
Are you seriously asking me?
I ask because you're complaining about having to do too many runs due to the drops.
I actually don't care cause I'm not going to run stuff over and over just to get a drop.
Why won't I because....to me it's a terrible way to spend my entertainment hours stressing and working for a virtual item.
its not adding some set number of runs to get your perfect item (according to the OP)... he mentioned trading in 5 items for a 1 token each... then trading in those 5 tokens for a specified weapon type... still with random trait. So at BEST you could get your item - one usable item - in 5 runs... but will most likely be more because 1/8 trait drop still isn't a gimme. Even after you get one.. you still have to run it for other items (two 1-h weapons, one 2-h weapon, bow, inferno, lightning, resto... twice that for other toons) Maybe less if you get lucky from the actual drops at the end.
Not to mention.. you have to beat the hardest solo content in the game just to get 1 token...SO many people can't beat this arena still...
That doesn't make it too easy. It doesn't make it next to impossible (like it is now) to get the item you're looking for...So what is the issue? It needs to be balanced...
You're even saying you won't run this place because its a waste of time... You just want to argue with change for the sake of arguing? If you don't care... then why comment?
That's exactly setting a specific number.
Tokens have a value based on loot results.
The use of tokens is set on the items the token is used for.
In order to gain tokens you have to do X amount of runs to gain Y number of tokens to buy Z item represented by Y.
That's a terrible idea cause all of you are complaining about doing many runs. It's not about why it should be hard or whatever it's that as is, per some, they have to do many runs and the idea is to force many runs and eliminate all possibilities of getting a desired item
Understand I truly understand the idea and understand that loot drops but I've read a ton of statistical threads and even picked up on Dev comments of the loot table chance for desired drops.
The idea adds a system that offers no value other than giving some people this idea that if they had tokens they could shorten the number of runs they need to do.
But then what's the point of the tokens then if you're going to stop
That's why I say it's a terrible idea vs just adjusting the loot tableEdited by NewBlacksmurf on December 8, 2016 9:03PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
jakeedmundson✭✭✭✭✭YesNewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...
@jakeedmundson
Why is adding a requirement of X among of runs to obtain an item?
Are you seriously asking me?
I ask because you're complaining about having to do too many runs due to the drops.
I actually don't care cause I'm not going to run stuff over and over just to get a drop.
Why won't I because....to me it's a terrible way to spend my entertainment hours stressing and working for a virtual item.
its not adding some set number of runs to get your perfect item (according to the OP)... he mentioned trading in 5 items for a 1 token each... then trading in those 5 tokens for a specified weapon type... still with random trait. So at BEST you could get your item - one usable item - in 5 runs... but will most likely be more because 1/8 trait drop still isn't a gimme. Even after you get one.. you still have to run it for other items (two 1-h weapons, one 2-h weapon, bow, inferno, lightning, resto... twice that for other toons) Maybe less if you get lucky from the actual drops at the end.
Not to mention.. you have to beat the hardest solo content in the game just to get 1 token...SO many people can't beat this arena still...
That doesn't make it too easy. It doesn't make it next to impossible (like it is now) to get the item you're looking for...So what is the issue? It needs to be balanced...
You're even saying you won't run this place because its a waste of time... You just want to argue with change for the sake of arguing? If you don't care... then why comment?
That's exactly setting a specific number.
Tokens have a value based on loot results.
The use of tokens is set on the items the token is used for.
In order to gain tokens you have to do X amount of runs to gain Y number of tokens to buy Z item represented by Y.
That's a terrible idea cause all of you are complaining about doing many runs. It's not about why it should be hard or whatever it's that as is, per some, they have to do many runs and the idea is to force many runs and eliminate all possibilities of getting a desired item
Understand I truly understand the idea and understand that loot drops but I've read a ton of statistical threads and even picked up on Dev comments of the loot table chance for desired drops.
The idea adds a system that offers no value other than giving some people this idea that if they had tokens they could shorten the number of runs they need to do.
But then what's the point of the tokens then if you're going to stop
That's why I say it's a terrible idea vs just adjusting the loot table
I don't understand why we're discussing this... we both want it to change... and i personally don't care how... they just need to make it a reasonable grind. Whether its a token system or trait refinement? i don't care.
A friend of mine got a precise lightning staff on his first run... i'm 60 drops deep without a single lightning staff (the one thing i want from the arena)... I would kill for that precise one even though sharpened would be better.
The vma drop system sucks....CP690
Lv 50 Dunmer DragonKnight Tank/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Sorcerer Dps
Lv 50 Breton Templar Healer/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Nightblade Dps
Lv 50 Redguard Sorcerer Dps
PS4 - DC
vSOHM - vAAHM - vHRC - vMA Flawless
My version of a Heavy Attack Sorc build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294724/magicka-sorc-heavy-attack-build-homestead-ready/p1?new=10 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭Yesjakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...
@jakeedmundson
Why is adding a requirement of X among of runs to obtain an item?
Are you seriously asking me?
I ask because you're complaining about having to do too many runs due to the drops.
I actually don't care cause I'm not going to run stuff over and over just to get a drop.
Why won't I because....to me it's a terrible way to spend my entertainment hours stressing and working for a virtual item.
its not adding some set number of runs to get your perfect item (according to the OP)... he mentioned trading in 5 items for a 1 token each... then trading in those 5 tokens for a specified weapon type... still with random trait. So at BEST you could get your item - one usable item - in 5 runs... but will most likely be more because 1/8 trait drop still isn't a gimme. Even after you get one.. you still have to run it for other items (two 1-h weapons, one 2-h weapon, bow, inferno, lightning, resto... twice that for other toons) Maybe less if you get lucky from the actual drops at the end.
Not to mention.. you have to beat the hardest solo content in the game just to get 1 token...SO many people can't beat this arena still...
That doesn't make it too easy. It doesn't make it next to impossible (like it is now) to get the item you're looking for...So what is the issue? It needs to be balanced...
You're even saying you won't run this place because its a waste of time... You just want to argue with change for the sake of arguing? If you don't care... then why comment?
That's exactly setting a specific number.
Tokens have a value based on loot results.
The use of tokens is set on the items the token is used for.
In order to gain tokens you have to do X amount of runs to gain Y number of tokens to buy Z item represented by Y.
That's a terrible idea cause all of you are complaining about doing many runs. It's not about why it should be hard or whatever it's that as is, per some, they have to do many runs and the idea is to force many runs and eliminate all possibilities of getting a desired item
Understand I truly understand the idea and understand that loot drops but I've read a ton of statistical threads and even picked up on Dev comments of the loot table chance for desired drops.
The idea adds a system that offers no value other than giving some people this idea that if they had tokens they could shorten the number of runs they need to do.
But then what's the point of the tokens then if you're going to stop
That's why I say it's a terrible idea vs just adjusting the loot table
I don't understand why we're discussing this... we both want it to change... and i personally don't care how... they just need to make it a reasonable grind. Whether its a token system or trait refinement? i don't care.
A friend of mine got a precise lightning staff on his first run... i'm 60 drops deep without a single lightning staff (the one thing i want from the arena)... I would kill for that precise one even though sharpened would be better.
The vma drop system sucks....
this is a fact if you voted yes or no. The current drop system sucks.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nojakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »jakeedmundson wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Geez no.
Honestly the RNG is fine. The only change you all need to suggest are to remove certain item possibilities from this particular loot table
You should not be required to do X number of runs to get "tokens" to exchange for goods
Terrible to add this
With the OP's suggestion you wouldn't be required to, you could keep the weapon OR exchange for a token.
Correct. You wouldn't be getting just tokens. You have the option to keep the weapon OR turn it into a token.
That literally is the same thing folks.
You're asking for a system that rewards you on doing run after run after run.
That's a terrible idea.
When we know the issue is simple. The loot table contains many items that no player desires and that only have value to research or deconstructing.
I could argue that making this change would devalue the purpose of a crafter doing runs but at its core....considering tokens don't even exist, it's a terrible suggestion.
The PvP world has currencies around staying alive and killing players and NPCs. That's different
The PvE game doesn't need another currency it's fine the way it is and honestly....it's suppose to talk a long time to get beat in a lot items based on player preferences.
That's the whole point of charging for this dlc. If not what replay value does it offer after One Tamriel changes?
Ok... then change the loot tables... who cares what the solution is?
The point of every one of these vMA threads is that the drops SUCK! I've gotten somewhere around 50-60 drops and haven't gotten the item i'm looking for... not just a bad trait.. i mean the item hasn't dropped at all. I won't continue to run it for no reward.
Implement some sort of token system so you don't have to farm this place for a year (many won't stick around for that anyway) OR even out the drop rates between weapons and only have them drop with useful traits.
And to the bold above... what? why is that an issue... in ANY way? EVERYTHING else rewards you in this game with ONE run... maybe two or three if you're unlucky..
You want a decent monster helm? ok... didn't get one? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
You want a VO necklace? ok... didn't get one to drop? likely that someone else in the group did... trade? ok.
the list goes on...until it hits vMA.
EDIT... because i have to add that its unbelievable to me that people try to defend the current vMA system and try to shoot down these threads...
@jakeedmundson
Why is adding a requirement of X among of runs to obtain an item?
Are you seriously asking me?
I ask because you're complaining about having to do too many runs due to the drops.
I actually don't care cause I'm not going to run stuff over and over just to get a drop.
Why won't I because....to me it's a terrible way to spend my entertainment hours stressing and working for a virtual item.
its not adding some set number of runs to get your perfect item (according to the OP)... he mentioned trading in 5 items for a 1 token each... then trading in those 5 tokens for a specified weapon type... still with random trait. So at BEST you could get your item - one usable item - in 5 runs... but will most likely be more because 1/8 trait drop still isn't a gimme. Even after you get one.. you still have to run it for other items (two 1-h weapons, one 2-h weapon, bow, inferno, lightning, resto... twice that for other toons) Maybe less if you get lucky from the actual drops at the end.
Not to mention.. you have to beat the hardest solo content in the game just to get 1 token...SO many people can't beat this arena still...
That doesn't make it too easy. It doesn't make it next to impossible (like it is now) to get the item you're looking for...So what is the issue? It needs to be balanced...
You're even saying you won't run this place because its a waste of time... You just want to argue with change for the sake of arguing? If you don't care... then why comment?
That's exactly setting a specific number.
Tokens have a value based on loot results.
The use of tokens is set on the items the token is used for.
In order to gain tokens you have to do X amount of runs to gain Y number of tokens to buy Z item represented by Y.
That's a terrible idea cause all of you are complaining about doing many runs. It's not about why it should be hard or whatever it's that as is, per some, they have to do many runs and the idea is to force many runs and eliminate all possibilities of getting a desired item
Understand I truly understand the idea and understand that loot drops but I've read a ton of statistical threads and even picked up on Dev comments of the loot table chance for desired drops.
The idea adds a system that offers no value other than giving some people this idea that if they had tokens they could shorten the number of runs they need to do.
But then what's the point of the tokens then if you're going to stop
That's why I say it's a terrible idea vs just adjusting the loot table
I don't understand why we're discussing this... we both want it to change... and i personally don't care how... they just need to make it a reasonable grind. Whether its a token system or trait refinement? i don't care.
A friend of mine got a precise lightning staff on his first run... i'm 60 drops deep without a single lightning staff (the one thing i want from the arena)... I would kill for that precise one even though sharpened would be better.
The vma drop system sucks....
this is a fact if you voted yes or no. The current drop system sucks.
@Paneross and @jakeedmundson
I'm going back and forth against the idea that a token system is a good suggestion.
Not just against adjusting the loot table as long as it stays viable for crafting as well. That's the trick tho
Everyone isn't running it for the same reasons
I personally believe it shouldn't be solo only which then increases the amount of drops (let's say it's open up to 2 and a max of 3 players)
This is in contextto the loot discussion nothing else as a idea. So let's think of three leaderboards with chances to get drops from solo, duo and three person runs-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Lukums1✭✭✭✭Zzz wish people would start using the search function same post after post after post.
Come on matey. You could of done better than another pole to add...
Go on my twitch stream and watch me obtain all weapons with sharpen and precise the RNG isn't that bad.
It's all stupid luck though.
NOTE: I wish they WOULD just add tokens this way I can stop reading the same stupid posts everyday.
Rant over.PS4 Yellow Scum Dominion
1600+ vMA runs and counting
Magicka Sorc - Flawless - 544k Score
Stam Sorc - Flawless - 559k Score
Stam DK - FLAWLESS 512k Score
Stam NB - 492k Score - Work in progress
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The Maelstrom BIBLE for beginners/Flawless Achieve Below
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/181142505
You have vMA questions? Want a guide? Helping hand? PM me!
Returns after 6 months back to back flawless
https://go.twitch.tv/videos/1803846480 -
jakeedmundson✭✭✭✭✭Yes
Go on my twitch stream and watch me obtain all weapons with sharpen and precise the RNG isn't that bad.
It's all stupid luck though.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You just explained why the RNG system is bad immediately after trying to say it wasn't... Mr. 700+ runs... btw, that number alone means its a bad system.CP690
Lv 50 Dunmer DragonKnight Tank/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Sorcerer Dps
Lv 50 Breton Templar Healer/Dps
Lv 50 Altmer Nightblade Dps
Lv 50 Redguard Sorcerer Dps
PS4 - DC
vSOHM - vAAHM - vHRC - vMA Flawless
My version of a Heavy Attack Sorc build
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294724/magicka-sorc-heavy-attack-build-homestead-ready/p1?new=10 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭YesAs much as I love VMA and the idea of getting a sweet reward. It has become a choore because the rewards aren't worth the effort.0
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Jaronking✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesI just don't want to have to do 400 more runs of VMA to get me a sharpened VMA 2h.I'll rather quit the game.Is that what you want people to do @NewBlacksmurf would you rather they quit the game then having a reasonable way of getting the reward they deserve for doing the content.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesAbsolutely! 110% yes! Encourage players to enjoy your game!
A token system would bring back many players who quit because of horrible RNG.1 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoI just don't want to have to do 400 more runs of VMA to get me a sharpened VMA 2h.I'll rather quit the game.Is that what you want people to do @NewBlacksmurf would you rather they quit the game then having a reasonable way of getting the reward they deserve for doing the content.
@Jaronking
I believe my vote is causing you to take my opinion wrong.
I'm just completely against any ideas of a token system. I'm all for positive changes that don't involve any requirements to run more
Ideas like removing certain loot possibilities from the loot table as well as adding two person and three person run options for increased loot results with shareable drops for 2 hours as well as adding two more leader boards.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Shader_Shibes✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesAll we want is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, right now it's pitch black.
I'm still farming for sharpened inferno staff, have everything else in sharpened. I'm probably pushing close to 200 runs, not giving in yet.
If no token system, revert it to how it was before DB dlc.Edited by Shader_Shibes on December 8, 2016 10:57PM0 -
YesI think the bigger issues are more intelligent drops and other traits besides sharpened being useful.
If you resolve that, you won't be waiting for that ONE weapon with the ONE trait that is useful.
I'm about to start running vMA for the first time as a magsorc and this thread is making me reconsider...0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yesjakeedmundson wrote: »
Go on my twitch stream and watch me obtain all weapons with sharpen and precise the RNG isn't that bad.
It's all stupid luck though.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You just explained why the RNG system is bad immediately after trying to say it wasn't... Mr. 700+ runs... btw, that number alone means its a bad system.
@jakeedmundson
I have stopped believing anyone that quotes that many runs. If it was Streak or SirAndy, I would prob believe it, otherwise, no way. Just for fun, these are both his quotes within the last 24 hours:
"Completed it 700+ times myself easily - 100 runs on twitch currently give or take.
In 100 runs - I got all sharpen weapons apart from lightning sharpen which came later...
I really don't believe you, and if you're telling the absolute truth I feel sorry for you...
But at this time... I'm going to call it how I see it as the comment 300+ runs no sharpen as rubbish.
Sorry bud."
That one is a closed thread from yesterday so I cant quote it properly, but looks like you responded to that thread so you saw it, hence the "Mr. 700+ runs" comment. HahaI know for a fact succession rings don't drop in VMA but necklace does on round 8.
I think I've obtained 1 winterborn ring with 500+ runs so not sure what's up with that.
Luke
That's a quote from today. People just make stuff up when it comes to the runs they have completed. I have stopped putting any faith in it. ZOS should give us a dungeon counter in our achievements tab so people can prove it.
You are not wrong though, if those runs are even close to being correct, it just shows how bad the problem is.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on December 8, 2016 11:23PM1 -
Meld777✭✭✭✭✭YesOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »
That's a quote from today. People just make stuff up when it comes to the runs they have completed. I have stopped putting any faith in it. ZOS should give us a dungeon counter in our achievements tab so people can prove it.
You are not wrong though, if those runs are even close to being correct, it just shows how bad the problem is.
You're right, but you don't really need proof, math is enough. Just don't believe people you don't know personally that ran it, or just ignore it. But to give you an example, I ran it 450 times, didn't get the weapon I was after (Sharpened Inferno Staff). Do the math and you'll see the chance for that to happen to anyone is 5%. 5 out of 100 people. Take 100 people (from leaderboard of 1 class for example), 5 of them got screwed in 450 runs. At the same time, it means that 95 of them didn't get screwed. And now they come to this thread with #NoToTokenSystem. Disgusting.Edited by Meld777 on December 9, 2016 8:44AMMaelstrom Arena Champion | Undaunted | Fighters Guild Victor
Level 50 Magicka NB | CP160+
nAA | vCoH1 HM | nSO | nCoA2 | nDSA | nMA | vVoM
PC EU0 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭YesShader_Shibes wrote: »All we want is a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, right now it's pitch black.
I'm still farming for sharpened inferno staff, have everything else in sharpened. I'm probably pushing close to 200 runs, not giving in yet.
If no token system, revert it to how it was before DB dlc.
It's rough man.......VMA isn't, just the rewards. All 12 weapons I have have bad traits. I have no desire anymore to keep running because of this.1
