Official Discussion Thread for "ESO Welcomes Crown Crates"

mrs_gibbs

Noooo. Please not my ice wolf.

Abeille

@ZOS_GinaBruno I know I shouldn't do this and I'm sorry, but I'm just too sad right now, so I'll have to ask.

Do you guys have no shame?

I knew I would regret it just as I hit the "post reply" button. I'm sorry, that was unwarranted. I know it is not your fault this horrible, disgusting, scummy practice is being introduced to the game and that you probably DO have shame.

menedhyn

Recremen wrote: »

Friendly reminder that adding in a gamble-for-content feature is exactly equivalent with ZOS saying "we are perfectly content with people spending money and not getting anything out of it". Every detail about the gambling boxes is a business psych trick to squeeze cash out of you without any promise that you're even getting the very cosmetic items that are supposed to keep this damn game afloat. The "gems" are just the latest in a list of refinements to make gambling more appealing. It is nothing more than fair banking, and is designed not even to let you actually buy what you wanted in the first place, but to increase the amount you are willing to spend before giving up.


We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.

We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.

We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.



We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.

We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.

We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

Well said. Well said indeed.

Olav_the_Stout

@ZOS_GinaBruno
Does this mean we will no longer see exclusive items for sale in the crown store that are NOT in crates? I love supporting you guys, but I refuse to gamble.

Slurg

Recremen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.

It is worse news to me too. I actually wanted some of those reskins more than I wanted atronach stuff. But it sounds like the only way I'll be able to buy them now is if they introduce a new option to purchase crown gems directly, because I'm not doing the gamble and exchange thing.

TerraDewBerry

Recremen wrote: »

Friendly reminder that adding in a gamble-for-content feature is exactly equivalent with ZOS saying "we are perfectly content with people spending money and not getting anything out of it". Every detail about the gambling boxes is a business psych trick to squeeze cash out of you without any promise that you're even getting the very cosmetic items that are supposed to keep this damn game afloat. The "gems" are just the latest in a list of refinements to make gambling more appealing. It is nothing more than fair banking, and is designed not even to let you actually buy what you wanted in the first place, but to increase the amount you are willing to spend before giving up.


We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.

We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.

We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.



We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.

We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.

We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

I completely agree wholeheartedly with this. I care a lot about ESO but I will not spend not even one crown on their crown crates. If people do not buy them, ZOS will maybe understand the message the player base is trying to send them. Money talks.. Just say "NO!!" to crown crates.

Friends don't let friends buy crown crates....

Abeille

Slurg wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.

It is worse news to me too. I actually wanted some of those reskins more than I wanted atronach stuff. But it sounds like the only way I'll be able to buy them now is if they introduce a new option to purchase crown gems directly, because I'm not doing the gamble and exchange thing.

If only...
But then it wouldn't be a gamble like intended.

I really wish ZOS still posted the Crown Store Showcase today. Waiting until tomorrow to find out if the one mount I want is Crown Crate Exclusive or not will be torture.

XRavishX

I don't see the problem with the crown crates. Yeah, they're RNG, but it's gambling. People still drop $5, $10, or $20 on scratch off tickets that more often than not net them with either a free ticket to try again or nothing at all, yet you don't see people whining about how bad the RNG win rate is. They still go out and buy them not because they're guaranteed a win, but because they might.

Crown crates are better than the normal lottery because you'll at always get at least something of value be it in the form of some item or converted gems to spend later once you've saved enough. Simply put, you always win. And, just like with the standard lottery you can choose to participate or not. There's nothing that forces anyone to buy the crates nor does anyone lose anything by not buying them. All the items are either aesthetic or have questionable usefulness. In other words, those that do buy the crates don't end up more powerful than those that don't.

So, for those of you who like gambling, I think this is probably a decent way to fulfill that itch. For those that don't, you can rest assured that you're not missing out on anything useful. For those that want to collect absolutely everything in the game, I guess you're SOL unless you wanna drop beaucoup bucks on a lottery. At least, in the end, the mad cash you spent will get you something, unlike actual lottery. In the end, people will play the crown crate lottery because people like gambling. I know I will.

Good luck!

Gilvoth

i missed the chance to get a Kagouti Mount.
how can i now get one with the crates ?
what do i have to do to get the Kagouti Mount i want ?

MadLarkin

Recremen wrote: »

Friendly reminder that adding in a gamble-for-content feature is exactly equivalent with ZOS saying "we are perfectly content with people spending money and not getting anything out of it". Every detail about the gambling boxes is a business psych trick to squeeze cash out of you without any promise that you're even getting the very cosmetic items that are supposed to keep this damn game afloat. The "gems" are just the latest in a list of refinements to make gambling more appealing. It is nothing more than fair banking, and is designed not even to let you actually buy what you wanted in the first place, but to increase the amount you are willing to spend before giving up.


We must fully reject gambling as a means of content delivery.

We must fully reject a gambling addition to a perfectly functional cash shop.

We must fully reject exclusive, high quality content being used to incentivize gambling.



We must embrace direct purchase of content as the only means of delivery.

We must embrace direct purchase as the only acceptable feature in a cash shop.

We must embrace honest, clear pricing for goods and services.

Wonderfully articulated and on point.

wayfarerx

XRavishX wrote: »

I don't see the problem with the crown crates. Yeah, they're RNG, but it's gambling. People still drop $5, $10, or $20 on scratch off tickets that more often than not net them with either a free ticket to try again or nothing at all, yet you don't see people whining about how bad the RNG win rate is. They still go out and buy them not because they're guaranteed a win, but because they might.

Crown crates are better than the normal lottery because you'll at always get at least something of value be it in the form of some item or converted gems to spend later once you've saved enough. Simply put, you always win. And, just like with the standard lottery you can choose to participate or not. There's nothing that forces anyone to buy the crates nor does anyone lose anything by not buying them. All the items are either aesthetic or have questionable usefulness. In other words, those that do buy the crates don't end up more powerful than those that don't.

So, for those of you who like gambling, I think this is probably a decent way to fulfill that itch. For those that don't, you can rest assured that you're not missing out on anything useful. For those that want to collect absolutely everything in the game, I guess you're SOL unless you wanna drop beaucoup bucks on a lottery. At least, in the end, the mad cash you spent will get you something, unlike actual lottery. In the end, people will play the crown crate lottery because people like gambling. I know I will.

Good luck!

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i missed the chance to get a Kagouti Mount.
how can i now get one with the crates ?
what do i have to do to get the Kagouti Mount i want ?

Dark days ahead folks.

Slurg

Abeille wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.

It is worse news to me too. I actually wanted some of those reskins more than I wanted atronach stuff. But it sounds like the only way I'll be able to buy them now is if they introduce a new option to purchase crown gems directly, because I'm not doing the gamble and exchange thing.

If only...
But then it wouldn't be a gamble like intended.

I really wish ZOS still posted the Crown Store Showcase today. Waiting until tomorrow to find out if the mount I want is Crown Crate Exclusive or not will be torture.

I'm not holding on to any hopes there.

On the bright side, I finally gave up on waiting for the red wolf mount a little while back and bought the regular one. I actually love it! It actually fits the character I bought it for perfectly and I'm really glad I picked it.

Alucardo

hopefully this will cheer you guys up.



[Edit to remove discussion of moderator actions]

driosketch

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

It doesn't even tell us all of the items for sale in the season's crown crate, not even to mention the current gem prices.

There are a pretty fair amount of items included in a Crown Crate. You'll be able to see almost all the items you can obtain from a Crate in the Crown Store UI (save for a couple consumables). Similar to the Crown Store Showcase, prices aren't published via the website, but you'll be able to see all Gem amounts come Thursday through the same UI mentioned above.

I'm sure the list is shorter than an Update Natch Potes thread. We all know the community will post their own list here, on reddit and elsewhere this Thursday. Please pass along to the decision makers or marketing or whoever that deliberate obfuscation is not appreciated by their customers.

Thanks, and you have a good day Gina.

MissBizz

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

PLEASE just tell us if there is anything that IS NOT THEMED that is going to be exclusive.

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

Thanks @ZOS_GinaBruno for the answer. Have they made a way to make it more clear on what is exclusive? As I understand, the PTS versions of the crates had 66% exclusive collectibles vs 33% previously released items. I'm still not sure if I was able to determine was was exclusive or not though.

ItsGlaive

Tandor wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Mx13 wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Maotti wrote: »

Then it is really settled, Thursday is the day ESO as we know it dies.

Shameful indeed.

Second time that's happened for some of us. First came after they went back on "we'd rather switch the server off than move away from sub model"

They never said that tho.

CBA to dig up the original interview, think it was from 2014 iirc, but Paul Sage said he'd switch the servers off before making the switch, made a big song and dance about their stance and their ethics.

Here's another interview which was easier to find, he makes similar overtures in this: http://gamingbolt.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-business-model-is-what-the-business-model-is

All he said in that link is that they had no plans he was aware of to change the model. I can well imagine that to have been true at the time, but if you have evidence that it wasn't the case then let's see it. However, there's nothing in that interview that could remotely be described as making "similar overtures" to an unsupported allegation that elsewhere he said he'd rather close the servers down than change the business model.

People are quick to accuse ZOS of telling all sorts of lies and breaking all sorts of promises, but it's funny how when they get asked for evidence they never have any. Then they invariably complain that ZOS no longer communicate with the people who have distorted everything they have said in the past!

I don't support everything ZOS do, and the game is certainly not without its faults, but when claims like yours are bandied about there really is a need to put up or shut up. If you can unearth the quote about closing down the servers then I'll freely apologise for getting it wrong, if you can't unearth that quote will you freely apologise for getting it wrong?

If you want it, you know where Google is. As I said, I'm not trawling through two year old information to satisfy your need. I read the articles then, I read the articles now and I absorb the information I read in them. I'm not doing your research for you if you're not happy with what I've said, but feel free to do it yourself.

Dayth

ESO may "welcome" these crown crates but the community does not. I hate the fact that items I would likely of bought like mounts and the odd memento I won't get the option to because of gambling. Even if I did want one of these items I probably wouldn't get it due to it probably having a terrible drop chance and the fact that just 4 crates cost £8.99. That is a ridiculous amount of money for something that will probably just be useless consumables 75% and cosmetics you don't want for the rest.

Valorin

For me this is where the game took the wrong turn.
Unique items in gamble boxes is absolutely a no-go for me. Using gambling as a marketing strategy has always been a cheap trick, and tempting people with unique items makes it even more repelling for me.

The game does not deserve that.

Abeille

Slurg wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.

It is worse news to me too. I actually wanted some of those reskins more than I wanted atronach stuff. But it sounds like the only way I'll be able to buy them now is if they introduce a new option to purchase crown gems directly, because I'm not doing the gamble and exchange thing.

If only...
But then it wouldn't be a gamble like intended.

I really wish ZOS still posted the Crown Store Showcase today. Waiting until tomorrow to find out if the mount I want is Crown Crate Exclusive or not will be torture.

I'm not holding on to any hopes there.

On the bright side, I finally gave up on waiting for the red wolf mount a little while back and bought the regular one. I actually love it! It actually fits the character I bought it for perfectly and I'm really glad I picked it.

I almost passed on the Turquoise Nixad, which is my absolute favourite pet, because I was waiting for the Orchid Nixad. The Orchid Nixad was one of the Crate-exclusive pets on the PTS.

I would still buy the Orchid Nixad if it came out through direct purchase, but I would hate myself forever if I passed on the Turquoise Nixad for it knowing now that it will be forever away from my grasp.

kamimark

So everyone who says "END OF THE GAME!" will be dropping sub & deleting accounts Thursday, then? Back to grinding 10 boar asses for a 4cp quest reward in WoW?

The crates are just a chance at some silly consumable & cosmetic stuff. It doesn't hurt you in the least, except petty jealousy, if you don't have a storm atronach horse.

https://youtu.be/ZaB_G1WNT70?t=18s

As for me, I'll probably buy a 4-pack every month. All else should do the same to keep ZOS's lights on.

[Edit to remove insulting content]

spiffy_jim

I know I'm late to the party, but from the MMOs I've played I'd say ESO's Crown Crates rate somewhere between TERA's Loot Crates and Marvel Heroes Fortune Cards:

TERA - some really cool exclusive mounts, costumes/gear, etc. behind possibly the worst RNG in the business. Most loot boxes leave you with nothing but crafting or consumable garbage. The main benefit is that most of the stuff you find in these boxes can be bought outright in their store, except the loot box version is typically a cool colour/design, and the shop version is the 'basic' version.

Marvel Heroes - some cool outfits and unique, non-PTW items with RNG that's not too bad and also each card gives you a currency that you can save up and eventually use (when you have enough) to buy the cool outfits/uniques if you're unlucky (like me). The best part is that they sell the cards in discounted packs that typically go on sale a few times a year.

My take is that ESO obviously has to keep the lights on and pay the bills, while walking a fine line between turning their fanbase into pitchfork wielding mobs. That being said, there's no reason why this gear, mounts, etc. can't be sold in the store with only a handful of super rare items in the crates for the whales to buy or those times you want to blow some extra crowns from the sale.

I think this is the new future of free MMOs - or at least the current future. If you want to stop this stuff from happening and in order for them to make a profit to show their investors et al that this game is worth investing in instead of just building a new one, then we'd have to go back to a subscription model.

Happy trails.

Mercutio

As it stands now, I truly believe this is a bad move.

I'm a collector. By introducing items that I won't get because I refuse to gamble you're destroying the "gotta have them all" market. I would gladly pay for these items upfront though.

It also gives a massive black eye to your previously stellar reputation as running the best cash shop in the MMO arena. Now you're just like all the other games. And when you're just like other games, people are going to have a lot less incentive to stay with ESO.

I hope you introduce a way to purchase the Crown Crate Collectibles directly. And not because you have to, but because you want to. Because that is treating the customer fairly, and with respect.

I really thought your company was better than this. I would say 'penny wise, pound foolish' but I'm not so sure the former is even applicable. I know my desire to buy Crowns is now greatly diminished.

Good luck, hope you can recover from this.

Alucardo

spiffy_jim wrote: »

then we'd have to go back to a subscription model.

Happily.

Cazzy

Will drop rates be released?

kakarot482_ESO

Really disappointed in the bland article and the fact that there will also be additional exclusive mounts ON TOP OF the already exclusive apex themed mounts locked inside these crates. Mounts are pretty much the only thing in the crown store I buy (which I realize is a thing specific to me)

But hey, thanks ZOS, if you're so set on sticking all the cool stuff in crates instead of offering them for direct purchase then that just makes it real easy for me to go spend my hard earned money somewhere else.

Edit for clarity.

rhapsodious

Recremen wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There will be some new, non-themed items exclusive to Crown Crates, yes. These are largely going to be re-skins of existing items, though. You will be able to purchase these with Crown Gems, and they will be priced lower than the themed Apex-level mounts.

This is even worse news than the storm atronach mounts being exclusive.

Welp, bye, Red Pit Wolf. ):

I really don't want to gamble for the closest thing to a fox mount I'll probably get.

Ilsabet

kamimark wrote: »

As for me, I'll probably buy a 4-pack every month. All else should do the same to keep ZOS's lights on.

No thanks. I don't like wasting my money.

Callous2208

Lolz. People think the purpose of these are to just keep the lights on, pay the bills. To be young and naive to the ways of the world again.

Abeille

@ZOS_GinaBruno will there still be new Crown Store stuff released every month through direct purchase, or will every new released Crown Store stuff be in the crates?

I'm awfully worried for tomorrow's showcase.

If anyone thinks this is a bit extreme, really, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get anything new through direct purchase anymore.

Callous2208

Abeille wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno will there still be new Crown Store stuff released every month through direct purchase, or will every new released Crown Store stuff be in the crates?

I'm awfully worried for tomorrow's showcase.

If anyone thinks this is a bit extreme, really, at this point I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't get anything new through direct purchase anymore.

Fear not. We will still be providing new low quality, uninteresting items for direct purchase in the crown store. All items will see a 100% price increase to balance out the addition of the crown crate option.

-ZOS Team